Swooping Army

[Fynn 129]

Anyway it sounds very exaggerated. 

 

 

No chance to stay alive? C'mon man we aren't mages

Broken? C'mon We aren't  bds 

Our only  launchable aoe is broken? 

C'mon we aren't templars 

 

 

 

[Shadowmon 81]

Hold up. So when you say remove stacks, you mean only taking 1 damage from the skill. In addition, if 5 chieftain cast the skill in your area in war event, you want to only take one skill damage instead of 5? Is that what you mean in this topic?

Edited March 3, 2023 by Shadowmon

[Ahmed Didar 118]

1 hour ago, Shadowmon said:

Hold up. So when you say remove stacks, you mean only taking 1 damage from the skill. In addition, if 5 chieftain cast the skill in your area in war event, you want to only take one skill damage instead of 5? Is that what you mean in this topic?

That's what he mean, lol

[SaltyCoffe 67]

10 hours ago, Shadowmon said:

Hold up. So when you say remove stacks, you mean only taking 1 damage from the skill. In addition, if 5 chieftain cast the skill in your area in war event, you want to only take one skill damage instead of 5? Is that what you mean in this topic?

I think he meant the second effect of the skill (?) , at this point idk too ahahah .

But i think he meant the "decrease dodge parameter " effect .

[Ahmed Didar 118]

4 hours ago, SaltyCoffe said:

I think he meant the second effect of the skill (?) , at this point idk too ahahah .

But i think he meant the "decrease dodge parameter " effect .

He meant that he should take only 1 skill damage among the 5 chieftains, so the other 4 will just sit there  doing absolutely nothing. I don't think he meant the dodge parameter, cuz there isn't a single video of mentioning it.

 

Edited March 4, 2023 by Higgings
Just a little adjustment

[Shadowmon 81]

4 hours ago, SaltyCoffe said:

I think he meant the second effect of the skill (?) , at this point idk too ahahah .

But i think he meant the "decrease dodge parameter " effect .

It still one stack though. Like you would've seen the number 2. He could've shown us the debuff from his own attributes from his character. 

[Jaan 124]

15 hours ago, Shadowmon said:

Hold up. So when you say remove stacks, you mean only taking 1 damage from the skill. In addition, if 5 chieftain cast the skill in your area in war event, you want to only take one skill damage instead of 5? Is that what you mean in this topic?

has been changed for mage, why wouldnt it be possible to change  on chief?

[Shadowmon 81]

7 hours ago, Babocool said:

has been changed for mage, why wouldnt it be possible to change  on chief?

What! That's like saying a party of mages for dg is irrelevant. Might as well say when you get auto attack from 3 people, only one of them deal damage. I am perplexed on this. I definitely need proof for mages because that can't be true. 

Edited March 4, 2023 by Shadowmon

[Fynn 129]

I didn't know skills had to line up to do damage One by one. 

[Fenrir Lappland 2]

17 hours ago, Babocool said:

已经换了法师，为什么就不能换首席呢？

ez, can i ask u why paladin  heavy class heal is more than mc cloth armor class？

can i ask why mage is cloth class but hv flash+op shild+res skill more tank than heavy class kkkk do you have a suggestion to nerf?

can i ask too why bm can aoe heal 20k+ hp in few second + hv op dmg + heavy ,light class more tank than heavy class ?

[Santa Claus 173]

Lol so 30 chiefs would hit only 6 targets . Meanwhile mages doing same damage as chief and they got aoe stun . And ur mentioning skill that do dmg after u move away to be stackable . I mean. Devs arent stupid . If all skills werent stackable then what would be point of having more than 2 chiefs/lock/mage/temp on server. Mage and lock skill does dmg after u move away from circle thats the reason it cant stack bcs that would be broken. And devs literally did good job there . Also saying that u cant resist lock skills bcs they are on ground is not true

[rafa9876 149]

3 hours ago, Santa Claus said:

Mage and lock skill does dmg after u move away from circle thats the reason it cant stack bcs that would be broken. 

Actually that was the tradeoff, mage skill used to stack but it did not do damage after you moved away. After it was changed not to stack it now continues dealing damage after you move.

Personally as a mage I'm actually cool with it, just makes the ability much less useful in big fights.

I was fully aware of other abilities still stacking, and it's completely fine as long as it's not abused.

 

But just as a warning, mage ground was changed to not stack because it was abused, especially on the brazilian server.

So regardless of how many people you bring to defend it, if you abuse it it will be changed.

 

Only because something has "always worked this way" or "it's normal for X class to have this" has never stopped devs from changing it once they deem it necessary.

[Higgings 1824]

Let's not get away from the topic's subject you all, shall we? 

[God Emerald 93]

Im not sure why my comment was deleted lol, dont think it was offensive so ill say it again.. 

 

MC's used unity and globe in this post😃

[Horimiya 1936]

В 27.02.2023 в 08:52, sandwitch сказал:

 

I'm so popular))))

[Bay 1]

On 2/27/2023 at 10:59 AM, Santa Claus said:

我认为圣堂武士的泡泡是个更大的问题。当你可以在1秒内被推到地图的另一边并且没有机会回来的时候

 

魔法酋长是为大规模战斗而制造的，尽管他们中的许多人更喜欢物理酋长。正如其他人所说，你的问题是你不想玩char，你想改变游戏机制，因为你在大规模战斗中玩坏了char。

 elf op so? nerf cheif

 

On 3/4/2023 at 3:37 PM, Babocool said:

has been changed for mage, why wouldnt it be possible to change  on chief?

has been changed for mage and lock same time , so why more to change other class?

[Horimiya 1936]

В 27.02.2023 в 02:56, Mateusz сказал:

Lock is shitty class too and we push our ppl (including myself) to play that class.

The class is just amazing!  The fact that your server can't build it properly doesn't mean the class is bad!

Separately, I note that I myself play for the warlock.  I have the latest build and am a great DD.  I recommend the class to anyone and everyone, but for its implementation you need to be able to think a lot and plan carefully the build.

[Shadowmon 81]

So yea, the skill is fine where it's at. 

[Theweasel 161]

 

On 3/4/2023 at 9:37 AM, Babocool said:

has been changed for mage, why wouldnt it be possible to change  on chief?

I'll tell you why... 

 

Mages have:

*Shield that absorb 100% dmg 

*1 skill that can stun + x2 stun/fear combo

*1 skill that increase def a LOT

*Anti stun skill

*Chains that root and push away enemies

* x4  aoe skills 2 with instant dmg 1 dot  and talent that also gives aoe to basic attacks

 

 

Chiefs have:

* Rugged hide that decrease incoming dmg by 40%

* Anti stun skill

*1 stun combo

* thrashing that only root and decrease dmg for 5 seconds

* 3 aoe = 2 dot and 1 rat skill talent with instant dmg

 

 

Clearly mages have an incredible advantage. 

But ofc, poor mages, lets keep nerfing chief so mages can bright,  In fact, they shine so brightly that we are already blind.

[Raislin 337]

17 hours ago, Ryohei said:

 

I'll tell you why... 

 

Mages have:

*Shield that absorb 100% dmg 

*1 skill that can stun + x2 stun/fear combo

*1 skill that increase def a LOT

*Anti stun skill

*Chains that root and push away enemies

* x4  aoe skills 2 with instant dmg 1 dot  and talent that also gives aoe to basic attacks

 

 

Chiefs have:

* Rugged hide that decrease incoming dmg by 40%

* Anti stun skill

*1 stun combo

* thrashing that only root and decrease dmg for 5 seconds

* 3 aoe = 2 dot and 1 rat skill talent with instant dmg

 

 

Clearly mages have an incredible advantage. 

But ofc, poor mages, lets keep nerfing chief so mages can bright,  In fact, they shine so brightly that we are already blind.

So much wrong information that its kind of incredible.

[Theweasel 161]

On 3/27/2023 at 5:56 AM, Raislin said:

So much wrong information that its kind of incredible.

Whats wrong? Please Correct me

[Raislin 337]

12 hours ago, Ryohei said:

Whats wrong? Please Correct me

First of all Mages haven't had the fear effect on blazing + fireball for a long time now. Defense is way worse than damage reduction as that can be denied by penetration while damage reduction isn't. Not to mention that Chiefs skill isn't just "40%" It gets stronger the less health chief has and its the same as Seekers damage reduction when Chieftain is at about half health instead of 30% like Seeker and it just keeps getting stronger from there. Trashing is a much better cc than chains since it reduces attack speed and damage of whomever it effects in an aoe which is basically like having Blade dancer sap but its in aoe form. Not to mention it's usable from range and not just a few tiles around the caster. 

[Theweasel 161]

1 hour ago, Raislin said:

First of all Mages haven't had the fear effect on blazing + fireball for a long time now.

Okay, fear gone, but still have a stun combo

1 hour ago, Raislin said:

 Defense is way worse than damage reduction as that can be denied by penetration while damage reduction isn't. 

Like every character that has a defense increase skill.. this isnt proper only from mages .... Mages should not suffer from this anyway,  specially when has another strong defensive skill. 

 

1 hour ago, Raislin said:

Not to mention that Chiefs skill isn't just "40%" It gets stronger the less health chief has and its the same as Seekers damage reduction when Chieftain is at about half health instead of 30% like Seeker and it just keeps getting stronger from there.

Damage reduction isn't better than a skill that avoid 100% dmg, also this doesn't save us at all, While mages shield works alone, we have to save it for specific situations, Situations in which sometimes it doesn't even help, you just get high damage as if you haven't used it. 

1 hour ago, Raislin said:

.Trashing is a much better cc than chains since it reduces attack speed and damage of whomever it effects in an aoe which is basically like having Blade dancer sap but its in aoe form. Not to mention it's usable from range and not just a few tiles around the caster. 

Better debuff = yes

Better cc = no

 

His aoe is  1x1 With some luck you will affect 2 targets. 

Being ranged use is a good advantage, but being 1x1  automatially ruins everything. 

Personally it is a very silly skill for someone melee, you do not need something like this, when you have to get close anyway,  And it's not even an advantage against ranged class, they just destroy you before you can get close.

Also, nowadays everyone have resistance, even 6% works As if they had 50%, This only makes the skill more useless than it already is. 

[Raislin 337]

10 hours ago, Ryohei said:

Damage reduction isn't better than a skill that avoid 100% dmg, also this doesn't save us at all, While mages shield works alone, we have to save it for specific situations, Situations in which sometimes it doesn't even help, you just get high damage as if you haven't used it. 

Sounds like you are incapable of building cdr, it should be simple enough to get the cooldown down to about 20 seconds with barely any effort and it has 13 seconds duration anyway. Every chieftain I run into seems to understand how to use this skill and has no problems tanking full 10 greatness chars with subpar ap gear.

 

10 hours ago, Ryohei said:

Better debuff = yes

Better cc = no

 

His aoe is  1x1 With some luck you will affect 2 targets. 

Being ranged use is a good advantage, but being 1x1  automatially ruins everything. 

Personally it is a very silly skill for someone melee, you do not need something like this, when you have to get close anyway,  And it's not even an advantage against ranged class, they just destroy you before you can get close.

Also, nowadays everyone have resistance, even 6% works As if they had 50%, This only makes the skill more useless than it already is. 

First of all its 3x3 not 1x1, one thinks you'd know these things but I suppose that's too much asked. 2nd of all that same resist argument is just as valid for mages as it is for chieftains. Why is chains ,the worse skill, somehow better even though it also gets countered by "6%" resist lol.

 

If i had to go through this much mental gymnastics I'd be in the olympic team for it by now.

[SeaDemon 53]

2 hours ago, Raislin said:

If i had to go through this much mental gymnastics I'd be in the olympic team for it by now.

I notice a lot of aggressiveness in your messages and I recommend that you calm down, the class is supposed to be discussed in the most impartial and respectful way possible, but I notice here a fight caused by personal problems

 

Now, I am seeing that this class is being compared erroneously since they are trying to compare it with the mage's ability when the only thing they are similar is in their visual effect, if you want to compare this ability with any mc class, do it with the warlock one, which also of having the same radius, I don't know if the same damage practically has the same objective and use, now if you want to compare the chieftain's ability with some other in elf, as they already said in other messages, you should compare it with the paladin's banner, both have the same radius, both stack, both grant a debuff to anyone who is within their zone, if what bothers you is that the paladin's banner has more cooldown then this is logical, the chieftain is a damage class focused on his aoe damage on the other hand the paladin is a support class focused on crowd control and providing support to his allies so for this reason in addition to the fact that he is also a "tank" class it is obvious that he would maintain a high cooldown on a damage ability

 

I personally believe that these last added classes did nothing more than ruin the little balance that the game had, both factions received very annoying classes in their own way and I don't want to talk about the added last year because it already seems absurd to me, except the reaper ... the worst class in the game I think after the rogue. Even so, what you are asking for does not make much sense from what was previously said, if you want to nerf the chieftain you should consider his healing skill, which I consider nonsense that a damage class has a healing or its almost perfect set of abilities but not the mechanics of these abilities. they work as they are supposed to work the problem is that they gave him abilities to be able to counteract practically any situation that is put in front of him

[Theweasel 161]

4 hours ago, Raislin said:

Sounds like you are incapable of building cdr, it should be simple enough to get the cooldown down to about 20 seconds with barely any effort and it has 13 seconds duration anyway. Every chieftain I run into seems to understand how to use this skill and has no problems tanking full 10 greatness chars with subpar ap gear.

 

 Lol.... My rugged hide have 19.5........ 

 

So.. Its my fault not able to tank  tons of damage? 

 

What next? That i dont know how to play chief? 

 

Anyway do u even played chieftain before? 

Or you're just spitting nonsense

 

 

1 hour ago, SeaDemon said:

I notice a lot of aggressiveness in your messages and I recommend that you calm down, the class is supposed to be discussed in the most impartial and respectful way possible, but I notice here a fight caused by personal problems

 

Now, I am seeing that this class is being compared erroneously since they are trying to compare it with the mage's ability when the only thing they are similar is in their visual effect, if you want to compare this ability with any mc class, do it with the warlock one, which also of having the same radius, I don't know if the same damage practically has the same objective and use, now if you want to compare the chieftain's ability with some other in elf, as they already said in other messages, you should compare it with the paladin's banner, both have the same radius, both stack, both grant a debuff to anyone who is within their zone, if what bothers you is that the paladin's banner has more cooldown then this is logical, the chieftain is a damage class focused on his aoe damage on the other hand the paladin is a support class focused on crowd control and providing support to his allies so for this reason in addition to the fact that he is also a "tank" class it is obvious that he would maintain a high cooldown on a damage ability

 

I personally believe that these last added classes did nothing more than ruin the little balance that the game had, both factions received very annoying classes in their own way and I don't want to talk about the added last year because it already seems absurd to me, except the reaper ... the worst class in the game I think after the rogue. Even so, what you are asking for does not make much sense from what was previously said, if you want to nerf the chieftain you should consider his healing skill, which I consider nonsense that a damage class has a healing or its almost perfect set of abilities but not the mechanics of these abilities. they work as they are supposed to work the problem is that they gave him abilities to be able to counteract practically any situation that is put in front of him

Dont mind him, he Seems to know how all classes work just by taking a look at them.

[Raislin 337]

5 hours ago, Ryohei said:

 

 Lol.... My rugged hide have 19.5........ 

 

So.. Its my fault not able to tank  tons of damage? 

 

What next? That i dont know how to play chief? 

 

Anyway do u even played chieftain before? 

Or you're just spitting nonsense

 

 

Dont mind him, he Seems to know how all classes work just by taking a look at them.

I infact have played all the classes besides Reaper and Bm. Can't say all of them are top tier in terms of gear but they at least have some arena gear generally so I know how they work in pvp. 

 

7 hours ago, SeaDemon said:

I notice a lot of aggressiveness in your messages and I recommend that you calm down, the class is supposed to be discussed in the most impartial and respectful way possible, but I notice here a fight caused by personal problems

 

Now, I am seeing that this class is being compared erroneously since they are trying to compare it with the mage's ability when the only thing they are similar is in their visual effect, if you want to compare this ability with any mc class, do it with the warlock one, which also of having the same radius, I don't know if the same damage practically has the same objective and use, now if you want to compare the chieftain's ability with some other in elf, as they already said in other messages, you should compare it with the paladin's banner, both have the same radius, both stack, both grant a debuff to anyone who is within their zone, if what bothers you is that the paladin's banner has more cooldown then this is logical, the chieftain is a damage class focused on his aoe damage on the other hand the paladin is a support class focused on crowd control and providing support to his allies so for this reason in addition to the fact that he is also a "tank" class it is obvious that he would maintain a high cooldown on a damage ability

 

I personally believe that these last added classes did nothing more than ruin the little balance that the game had, both factions received very annoying classes in their own way and I don't want to talk about the added last year because it already seems absurd to me, except the reaper ... the worst class in the game I think after the rogue. Even so, what you are asking for does not make much sense from what was previously said, if you want to nerf the chieftain you should consider his healing skill, which I consider nonsense that a damage class has a healing or its almost perfect set of abilities but not the mechanics of these abilities. they work as they are supposed to work the problem is that they gave him abilities to be able to counteract practically any situation that is put in front of him

It may seem aggressive but this is just the way I talk to people who don't seem to understand the game. Perhaps it's a bit unnecessary but I like to say how I see things and not go soft on people who just like deflecting arguments with pure nonsense. And it wasn't my idea to compare Chieftain to Mage in the first place and it probably has nothing to compare against since you haven't been able to build a Paladin for damage ever since 50-60% resilience became mandatory.

 

Back in the day you could make a full Killing Whisper Paladin and destroy people with High critical Banner damage but those days are long gone.

[Gladiator 1146]

I haven't read shit besides the OP but I think I know the gist of it.

There seems to be a general lack of understanding when it comes to class balance. Every time, discussions boil down to d*** measuring contests of comparing different classes and different skills that should not be compared. I've been guilty of that myself in the past.

 

It always comes down to arguments like Chieftain and Mage are similar right? But why this one has more AoE damage? Why this one has more stuns, why this has more of that and bla bla bla. Well, no Chieftain and Mage should not be compared.

 

When it comes to balance between sides in the game, the focus seems to be rather on skill-based, not class-based levels, IMO.

Meaning: If one side has a prominent skill, i.e. Harad's Banner, they introduce a skill that is analogous but not similar to the other side, i.e. Chieftain's Swooping Army.

 

Warlock used to be dominant in AoE control with Dark Circle and Zone of Weakness, they introduced Templar with skills of similar effect - Reverse Flow and Touch of Truth. Now one can come here and say WHAT? Templar has more heal and is much tankier than Warlock, how dare you say that's balance?! That's not the point of the balance though, it is to balance the skills and not the classes! Warlock and Templar are still different classes in their own rights! Their differences are still compensated by other classes on each side.

 

So, to the OP: You can't just compare Swooping Army and blazing ground or warlock's pool. In fact, pool and blazing ground are a perfect analogue, hence why both don't stack! Why not compare it to Banner? Banner damage also stacks, just like swooping army. Just because Mage and Chieftain have parallel skills (Resistance skills, and buff removing skills), doesn't mean they have to be compared in all other skills.

 

[SeaDemon 53]

3 hours ago, Raislin said:

And it wasn't my idea to compare Chieftain to Mage in the first place

I apologize for my bad writing, I'm still working on it. All I said after quote your message was to respond to the one who created the topic, again I apologize for the confusion

[Theweasel 161]

6 hours ago, Raislin said:

I infact have played all the classes besides Reaper and Bm. Can't say all of them are top tier in terms of gear but they at least have some arena gear generally so I know how they work in pvp. 

Ofc, What everyone says, every time i ask them if they know "X" class. 

 

I don't compare classes, I compare skills, i can't compare classes when all similar skills are scattered between all classes.

 

So, the dude who start the topic, He was saying that,.. Although, Blazing Ground Cant Stack, Swooping army should also. First of all they are not even similar skills, so I deduce that he tries to compare both classes. 

 

Then, being the only two classes With high aoe damage, they are slightly comparable. 

That said, fighting an enemy with a high level of damage is very difficult, both in arenas and in 1v1 friendly.

Anything you can think of has already been tried, so the rugged hide issue makes me understand that you haven't even familiarized yourself with the class. 

It sounds more like something you'd think is very effective just by having seen it, or just based on the skill description.

Anyway I just waste my time complaining here, 80% of the players are on the sentinel side (the bully side) . Why should gm listen to a few?

 

It's good to know that at least they have fun, at least that way the game won't die. 

 

Best regards

 

[Shadowmon 81]

Y'all keep forgetting this game will never be balance. A waist of energy don't you think?