Gladiator

devs seem to disagree

Yes, this definitely easily gets you over 1k. At low hp it's like 50% heal boost.

It's not easy when half of arena modes are randoms

Why is no one talking about poor magic palas? They will lose like 50% of their healing potential after this nerf and their dmg is still 30k, who's gonna wanna play that? @Ramona@Shimarin Can you at least fix the bug where this talent doesn't work if there are multiple Paladin Auras active in the party? I get that it multiple auras with this talent probably shouldn't stack. But right now, even if 1 pala has the talent, the Aura of the other pala(s) cancel the talent's effect entirely.

My suggestion was that the Paladin heals himself based off HP% and the AoE to be based off of magic power.

The calculations are a bit off, the talent does not heal the person who received the healing in the first place, meaning it will heal the 4 other members in a full party of 5. Also the deduction occurs from 30% for every additional member. This means before the nerf it was 26%-22%-18%-14%, and now it is 25%-20%-15%-10%. So in your example it would be more like this: 2 people - 1*260 = 260 3 people - 2*220 = 440 4 people - 3*180 = 540 5 people - 4*140 = 560 After the nerf: 2 people - 1*250 = 250 3 people - 2*200 = 400 4 people - 3*150 = 450 5 people - 4*100 = 400

I don't understand why the magic branches got a bigger nerf than the assassin's talent which is way more broken than the other 2 talents, considering it made even non-healer Paladins heal more than actual healers. And now, physical palas will heal even closer to a magical paladin (because magic branches are nerfed more strongly). The worst part is, physical Palas will still heal a lot, instead of 300k, now maybe like 200k in arenas. Who makes these, honestly, stupid decisions?

I think it needs a systemic fix, rather than nerfing the numbers on 1 or 2 talents/skills.

With the recent balance update, a lot of eyes have been drawn to the Paladin's support capability. We've seen screenshots of healing done by Paladin that ranges from 200k to 500k! While, understandably, people are asking for nerfs. I wanna point out a more major flaw in the Paladin's support that kinda always existed but, since the recent rebalance, is now more glaring than ever. The problem: Paladin has several support aspects, most of them are not related to magical power. Considering magical builds are considered "the support" build that deals little to no damage especially in PvP, this seems a bit off... Here is a list of all defensive support aspects: Heavenly Light - magical heal ✔ Sun Seal - "heal" based of damage dealt Sacred Shield - shield based of HP Light Protection- increase in defense Power Surge talent - heal based of HP Everburning Candle talent - heal based of party heal Intercession talent - heal based of magic ✔ Without doing too many complicated calculations. Let's take a 5x5 arena fight as an example. The assassin talent Power Surge heals 4% HP per 3 seconds. If we assume an average team HP of 10k, the talent heals on average 40k per minute. This is excluding any heal modifiers. On the other hand, in 1 minute, Paladin is able to use Heavenly Light 6-8 times. Assuming 1300 magical power and 50% crit heal rate, this means 18k-24k heal per minute (let's say 20k). Similarly, we could apply 3x 2 Sacred Shields. This is around 20k worth of damage protection in 1 minute. So in total we have 80k worth of damage protection/heal potential, only 25% of which only is attributed to magical power. This also means I can be a heavy damage dealing tank and still retain about as much as 75% of the support. I didn't even account for the healing that is still possible by a 1h mace. This relation gets even worse when we account for Everburning Candle. This talent is part of a branch that is supposedly for the magical builds, it excels in support. The problem is, this talent would amplify the difference between Power Surge and Heavenly Light even more, making magical-based support even less relevant, especially that it can also amplify healing done by other healers. In 5x5, the talent adds on more than 50% of the party's healing done every 2 seconds. With all that being said, if a magical Paladin contributes to 400k as we see in the screenshots, I would assume less than 20% of that healing is actually due to having any magical power, but rather is attributed to healing from other party members or the HP based talent. Technically I can have physical build that actually does decent single target damage, run the left branch with 0 magical power and still contribute to 300k+ healing to the party. I don't think this is intended... Regardless whether or not Paladin should contribute this much to party's healing in any build in the first place, at least, I want to work for it. I think the problem is that most of this healing stems mainly from 2 major talents, and all the Paladin has to do to realize the potential of these talents, is just to be there and stay alive in the required radius, it has no bearing on how well the is the Paladin is built to support in terms of gearing/amping/books and how well the Paladin plays. I think the solution might be a bit long term, but part of it has to be rebalancing these 2 key talents and other support skills and making them somehow connected to Paladin's support attributes (Magical Power, Cooldown, Critical Hit). Here are few examples... The (possible) solutions - Part I: 1. Power Surge rework/nerf: Heals the Paladin by 3% of the HP and party members by 25% of magical power every 6 seconds. The interval can be reduced by the cooldown parameter (credit to @Альтрон for cooldown idea). 2. Everburning Candle rework/nerf: Keep its power as it is but rework the mechanics to apply not purely passively by adding a condition for activation. For example: When the party's HP drops by 25% within 5 seconds, Candle buff is applied to all party members affected by Light Aura for 10 seconds. Candle buff heals all members under this effect by a % of healing received by these members every 2 seconds. This effect can also have a cooldown of 20 seconds, which can be reduced by the Paladin's Skill Cooldown parameter. This way the passive would be turned off by at least 50% of its current uptime even with 100% cooldown and if the condition is always met. Comment: Most complaints are about the Power Surge talent, while in the screenshots I've seen I think this talent was contributing more to the Paladin's total healing (probably more than 50%), especially with other healers in the party, surprisingly no one is mentioning it. As for the Power Surge talent, besides nerfing the interval, making it heal around 20% of magic would basically soft-cap its maximum power to around 300 even with 1700 magic (basically max possible magic realistically). This heal would be equivalent to a 8k HP - far from the max possible HP, especially on tanks. Even with 100% cooldown (maintaining per 3 sec heal), the heal potential would still be nerfed by around 50%. Additionally, skills that would reduce the magical power, would now affect it. Both of these nerfs would reduce the current Paladin's by at least 50%. More importantly, the support capability of a physical build/tank would be turned down to basically only Sacred Shield, which would be more on par with other tanks with similar roles. 3. Sun Seal rework/buff: Instead of healing attackers by a percentage of their damage dealt on the target. It will heal the attackers based of the Paladin's magical power (e.g. 15%-20%-25%-30%) for every auto-attack, and with a chance equal to the Critical Hit parameter of the Paladin, instant damage skills dealt to the target under the seal effect. This healing cannot be critical but can be modifiable by heal boosts/cuts, unlike now which is more like a life steal boost. This debuff should not go into resistance parameter, maybe this can be applied in the form of a new talent down the line. This would also make the combo with shield strike more reliable, compensating for the loss of the skill's effect for physical damage builds. 4. Light Protection rework: Applies Light Protection for 9-12-15-20 seconds (60 seconds cooldown), which would instead reduce incoming instant skill damage to party members (Not the paladin!) by a percentage of the magical power with a chance equal to the cooldown parameter of the Paladin. For example, the damage reduction scales by 5%-10%-15%-20% of the magical power but cannot exceed 50% of the original damage. The respective talent Patronage of Light would, instead of adding 5% HP, increase the reduction power by 5% of the magical power, and now additionally, applies to the Paladin included but with 50% reduced power. The mana regeneration boost remains. 5. Sacred Shield rework/buff: Change the shield power calculation to include max HP and magical Power, at least to the shield copy that is applied on the ally only (e.g. up to 60% of the magical power at max level). Extra: The (possible) solutions - Part II: The damage support also faces a similar issue. So, these ones are to add a relevant damage support aspect that is more stat-based, unlike Banner, Illumination, Sacred Teaching talent. 1. Paladin's Prayer rework: Applies Paladin's Retribution buff to all party members within 9 yards, dealing additional magical damage to all successful auto attacks, and with a chance equal to the Paladin's Critical Hit, to skills with instant damage. Of course, with adjusting cooldown, duration and damage values. The damage would still inherit the ally's stats but would be based off of Paladin's physical AND magical power together, but would be stronger from the magical power. 2.1. Faith Reckoning rework: All instant damage skills of the character and party members have a chance to apply Faith Reckoning. The base chance is 25%, which is reduced by 5% for each additional party member. Maximum stacks increases to 50. 2.2. Illumination Talent "Detonation" replacing "Sacred Teaching": Illumination gains an additional effect on enemy targets: Instantly activates the remaining damage from all DoT debuffs applied by character and party members. (DoT: Damage over Time debuffs, which includes Bleeds, Burns, Overload, Faith Reckoning, etc...) The detonation is a magical damage hit that is attributed to the character who applied the DoT effect and its power is additionally increased by an amount equaling to Critical Hit parameter of the Paladin. Conclusion Regardless of the balance of the current Paladin, the main point of this topic is to point out a flaw in the support aspect of Paladin. Also I'm not addressing other skills that might also need a nerf (Fetters). These ideas are just few examples of ways devs re-establish the importance of magical power and support stats such as cooldown in Paladin's support. More importantly, spread the Paladin's support capabilities across multiple skills/talents, rather than being largely composed of 2 passive talents, where a naked Paladin would technically make little to no difference compared to a fully geared, booked and amped Paladin (obviously besides being easy to kill, but you get the point). At the end, if I show 200k-300k healing at the end of arena fights, I wanna actually earn it. I understand some of these changes are pretty radical and I wouldn't expect them any time soon, and of course I don't think all of them need to be implemented, i.e. not all support skills have to rely on magical power. But hopefully devs can recognize the problem and maybe find some inspiration in these suggestions for addressing it in their future work, heading in a direction that more clearly separates well-built magical Paladins as support and physical builds as tank/damage, rather than closing this gap.

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Only if players can kill and loot each other too

It's not though. I'm pretty sure all talent healings are not blocked by apathy.

I assume Thor is using right (tank) branch in this video, a Paladin with the left branch (Aura heal talent) would not be tanky enough to solo-tank a couple of damage dealers, let alone "entire guilds". I remember someone said something along the lines of: It would be broken if this 1 relic cancelled out every healing possibility. And that's very true. This is definitely an issue. In fact, I'll have a dedicated topic about it soon™.

I saw many debuffs on him, no Dark Seals at all. In fact when I saw dark seal, he was already dead.. You can see it for a split-second at the end.

Agree

Awww what a sweet change of pace

Top US Sapphire players (and a bookless Paladin) clash in 4x4 Arena... Tos - Octopus, Orcinus, Humility Allex - Orcinus Cobra - 15 books Aconologia - Octopus, Humility God - Octopus, Humility Satan - Orcinus Hobbs - several books (unknown)

Как-то реальность говорит об обратном...

I think it would be nice to have an event, even if only once a year, where you can unbind a limited number of books per character.

Тот факт, что Паладин показывает более высокие числа в среднем, не означает, что он более эффективен как саппорт в каждом случае, особенно если он единственный саппорт в команде. Во-первых, специализированные хилеры все еще лучше поддерживают меньшее количество игроков (1-2). У них гораздо лучше развита точечная поддержка. Хилы Паладина — это небольшие исцеления, распределенные по всей группе. Кроме того, из-за таланта свечи он усиливает других хилеров и приписывает себе их заслуги, поэтому вы видите еще более высокие числа, когда Паладин сочетается с другими хилерами. Так что идея о том, что Паладин вытеснит специализированных хилеров только из-за больших чисел, довольно беспочвенна. Ограничение таланта на членов группы (выигрыш для всех) и привязка его к магической силе с меньшими значениями (например, 25% от магии) уже решает многие проблемы. Также я считаю, что магическому Паладину с его текущими возможностями поддержки можно ослабить защиту. Одна из идей, которую я предлагал раньше, хотя она, признаюсь, немного амбициозна, — это полный пересмотр «Внутренней силы» и ее основного таланта при использовании двуручного оружия. Что-то, что добавило бы больше силы в поддержку, а не в снижение урона для самого Паладина. Но, как я уже сказал, это пока, возможно, лишь фантазии.

I hope to keep meeting the demand of such prestigious role, after all, I'm no match to what @SymbX does to contribute to game knowledge. Thank you admin and dev team! To the next year!

Навык есть, и он очень эффективен, даже более надежен, чем реликвия Апатию, которая и так довольно эффективна. Вам решать, хотите ли вы его прокачивать или нет. Конечно, он не станет приговором при одном использовании — ничего не бывает таким. Все равно потребуется немного удачи и хорошее timing. Могу сказать по своему опыту, Чернокнижник, вероятно, лучший контркласс для Паладина. Не только из-за снижения лечения, но и из-за способности полностью заблокировать контроль, особенно при использовании ветки на снижение сопротивления на -35%.

Это многое объясняет... Ты уверен, что знаешь, как играть за свой класс? И как два мага могут держать иммунитет на трех персонажах постоянно?

Это тоже ничего не значит без контекста. На скриншоте мой Паладин. Я не помню деталей этого боя, но одно, что запомнил с теста, — арена была полна полу-PvE игроков. Также в этом режиме Арены бои могут быть очень долгими. Один только пассивный талант мог отхилить 150к+ менее чем за 5 минут при применении на 3 игроков. Некромант с их аналогичным талантом мог бы легко показать схожие цифры. Кстати, интересно, как Паладин вообще может кого-то удержать с другой стороны ВЖ, который способен уменьшать получаемое лечение на 75%.