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when can we expect a change to rogues?


just Ryan
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   Ok, so rogue is kinda bad at the moment.. Some would say it's op, broken, rogues one shot me etc.. If I have to guess, the people saying this are priests/necros/templars with staffs or low amped players, these are basically the chars rogue can guarantee a kill on.

 

   I'll talk about most aspects of the game here and I'll start it off with some of the useless skills rogues have:

 

Ricochet: the only aoe skill rogues have that does little to no damage and can't even use it to spread poison.. it also have high cd/low bounce range.. it's a tickle. I saw a cool suggestion of making it a passive skill that procs after every few autos.. if not at least let it spread the poison effect or have its own poison/bleed

 

Frenzy: yeah I'll just leave it here.. it seems nice getting 5% crit and accu at 1/4, 11% at 4/4.. then you look at the huge downsides.. you take 20% more damage and the insanely low duration make it useless, I would use it if it had 30 sec duration and 30 sec cd.. this skill can't be fixed it's basically worthless when maxed out, so I'd recommend changing it entirely, why not another damaging skill?

 

   These 2 skills are basically worthless to buy and are -if not- some of the worst skills in the game. I tried making them work many times and failed horribly.

 

Now for some small changes that rogues wouldn't mind having:

 

Elusive jump: the ability to use it without needing a target would be nice to have, I'd be fine using it to move around a bit faster or closing the gap rather than doing some damage. imagine it being like mage's time warp with/without the aoe damage.

 

Stealth: I love this skill, the plays you can make with it are countless, but it's just not as good. I'd be ok to sacrifice the extra 50% damage on the first hit for movement speed, just this change can change rogue status from useless to usable in GvGs. In wars you can't really get close to the elf flag because of mages afking near crosses which will insta reveal you.

 

Mobility is a huge part of the game and the legion side have 1 fast character.. the sentinels have palas that can jump.. mages that can jump.. bds that can rush while being immune to cc.. seekers with a better faster stealth.. these characters have mobility skills without needing to target something.. legion characters need a target to move fast. 

 

   Now i'll talk a bit about arena, but before I do.. I have a few words about detection pot and castle pots being usable in arena in general,

why?why?why?why?why?why? 

Druids and shamans with lifeforce pots are immortal gods.

And there's nothing worse than facing detection pots in arena.. it's not fun. if a rogue meets someone using detection pot in arena it instantly reduces the winning chances by ALOT. rogue skills have a 5yd range while almost all other classes can have 7 tile range skills using the relic of inaccessibility, combine that with detection pot and you'll have a sad dead rogue and he has 0 chance of stopping his death.. can't stop a barb charging you or dk pulling you from 7yds away, not to mention all other ranged classes can use this relic making revealing you easier than ever, and a rogue without stealth is a punching bag.

 

*2v2 arena: with a good teammate rogue can be great in 2v2.. until you run into palas/barbs with detection pots.. pala in 2v2 is a gg for rogue most of the time since they can cc you till you're dead and you just watch it happen, I won't mention the shield, enough has been said already. If you don't run into palas or detection pots 2v2 can be fun.

 

*5v5 arena: in 5v5 the rogue is not the one to carry, it's the worst legion character to have in your 5v5 team..

 

*crusible: because rogue is melee and requires a set up to do real damage, it is possible for you to get spawn camped and it's not fun. some rogues can carry but if you're meeting druids and palas there's no hope for you to be useful.

 

*3v3 arena: this arena is kinda dead in EU-Emerald so I don't bother spamming it ingame.

 

GvG: this is the main reason i'm making this post, and it's why rogue is so bad, you have no aoe to help with ( I won't consider ricochet as aoe since its dmg is no more than a tickle), you have 1 useful stun with flurry and most of the time your job is to kill stranglers around the edge of the fight. you're not a utility class, not a tank. there's a reason most of the active guilds are kicking and replacing rogues, it offers little to no help in mass fights, rogue can be 5 times better with a mobility buff to stealth and jump but it won't be enough to make it that much viable in gvgs. i still rather have a seeker than a rogue in mass fights cuz of their pull, rogue offers nothing to the table.

 

   Now that's all for the pvp aspect of the game, I won't go into 1v1 cuz it's not the point of the game, but in short if you play stun rogue you kill all and have a hard time with tanks.. if you play dodge rogue you'll kill tanks with ease but will have a hard time vs everything else especially rangers.

 

   Now for pve, rogue can do wonders in pve, a maxed out rogue with daggers have the highest dpm of any legion class.. it's not worth using axes because you won't match the dps of chiefs. now if we compare rogue to its elf counterpart.. the seeker, there's no competition, seekers destroy rogues in pve, they do wayyyyyyy more damage and have alot of base crit damage. in EU-Emerald some seekers can crit for 16k+ damage with auto attacks            - using normal pve daggers-. 

 

   As for raid bosses, hunters are the better damagers. you can make a 5 hunter pt and task a tank to move the boss around.. your hunters will get the kill most of the time. rogues can outshine hunters on elm only.

 

   To sum it all up, rogue is the worst class in the game and have been like this for the last few updates now, I saw some comment about how +6 rogue killed +10 ranger etc, a rogue can never dodge ranger attacks.. they have a skill that makes their accu 50% at all times. if rogues are so op why are they being kicked from br/ru/eu guilds? no mobility no utility no aoe - for real I'll never consider ricochet an aoe skill-. people might say seeker is the same, no aoe etc.. but they have a better version of stealth, a pull, a shield, insane damage. hopefully something will come out of this, take care.

Edited by just Ryan
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2 hours ago, just Ryan said:

I'll talk about most aspects of the game here and I'll start it off with some of the useless skills rogues have:

 

Ricochet: the only aoe skill rogues have that does little to no damage and can't even use it to spread poison.. it also have high cd/low bounce range.. it's a tickle. I saw a cool suggestion of making it a passive skill that procs after every few autos.. if not at least let it spread the poison effect or have its own poison/bleed

 

Frenzy: yeah I'll just leave it here.. it seems nice getting 5% crit and accu at 1/4, 11% at 4/4.. then you look at the huge downsides.. you take 20% more damage and the insanely low duration make it useless, I would use it if it had 30 sec duration and 30 sec cd.. this skill can't be fixed it's basically worthless when maxed out, so I'd recommend changing it entirely, why not another damaging skill?

 

   These 2 skills are basically worthless to buy and are -if not- some of the worst skills in the game. I tried making them work many times and failed horribly.

All classes have some bad or even useless skills, it's normal, you just mentioned the ones the rogue has. Frenzy isn't bad, +20% damage taken isn't a big deal as you're not a tank class, but I agree the duration is very short, it should last longer.

By the way, these 2 skills are wonderful compared to these other 2.

Screenshot_2021-08-16-23-25-45-1.png.2ab33f7ae090dc8938650a6a932194b7.png

Screenshot_2021-08-16-23-26-31-1.png.0dff14b16234a9c41455e80e5fbbf672.png

2 hours ago, just Ryan said:

Now for some small changes that rogues wouldn't mind having:

 

Elusive jump: the ability to use it without needing a target would be nice to have, I'd be fine using it to move around a bit faster or closing the gap rather than doing some damage. imagine it being like mage's time warp with/without the aoe damage.

That would be copying the mage's ability, nothing original. Instead, he could damage anyone nearby as well.

 

2 hours ago, just Ryan said:

I love this skill, the plays you can make with it are countless, but it's just not as good. I'd be ok to sacrifice the extra 50% damage on the first hit for movement speed, just this change can change rogue status from useless to usable in GvGs. In wars you can't really get close to the elf flag because of mages afking near crosses which will insta reveal you.

It would copy the seeker's invisibility too. The stealth is already good.  You're not planning on attacking the flag alone, it doesn't work. Wait for the legion to rally to attack while the mages are busy dealing with the invaders, use the jump.

2 hours ago, just Ryan said:

Mobility is a huge part of the game and the legion side have 1 fast character.. the sentinels have palas that can jump.. mages that can jump.. bds that can rush while being immune to cc.. seekers with a better faster stealth.. these characters have mobility skills without needing to target something.. legion characters need a target to move fast. 

While this is true, on the other hand chief has the best mobility in the game, even better than the seeker.

2 hours ago, just Ryan said:

Now i'll talk a bit about arena, but before I do.. I have a few words about detection pot and castle pots being usable in arena in general,

why?why?why?why?why?why? 

there's nothing worse than facing detection pots in arena.. it's not fun. if a rogue meets someone using detection pot in arena it instantly reduces the winning chances by ALOT. rogue skills have a 5yd range while almost all other classes can have 7 tile range skills using the relic of inaccessibility, combine that with detection pot and you'll have a sad dead rogue and he has 0 chance of stopping his death.. can't stop a barb charging you or dk pulling you from 7yds away, not to mention all other ranged classes can use this relic making revealing you easier than ever, and a rogue without stealth is a punching bag.

Yeah, that sucks. Aigrind needs to remove these pots from the arena, it's pretty unfair.

2 hours ago, just Ryan said:

GvG: this is the main reason i'm making this post, and it's why rogue is so bad, you have no aoe to help with ( I won't consider ricochet as aoe since its dmg is no more than a tickle), you have 1 useful stun with flurry and most of the time your job is to kill stranglers around the edge of the fight. you're not a utility class, not a tank. there's a reason most of the active guilds are kicking and replacing rogues, it offers little to no help in mass fights, rogue can be 5 times better with a mobility buff to stealth and jump but it won't be enough to make it that much viable in gvgs. i still rather have a seeker than a rogue in mass fights cuz of their pull, rogue offers nothing to the table.

Yes rogue is currently one of the worst classes for gxg. But I don't think there's any way to fix this without indirectly buffing the rogue in other aspects of the game, which is difficult, it's being replaced by hunters in guilds because they're better at gxgs. The same is happening with seekers.

2 hours ago, just Ryan said:

Now for pve, rogue can do wonders in pve, a maxed out rogue with daggers have the highest dpm of any legion class.. it's not worth using axes because you won't match the dps of chiefs. now if we compare rogue to its elf counterpart.. the seeker, there's no competition, seekers destroy rogues in pve, they do wayyyyyyy more damage and have alot of base crit damage. in EU-Emerald some seekers can crit for 16k+ damage with auto attacks            - using normal pve daggers-. 

Yes, you can't compare the damage of a rogue with that of the seeker. This really is broken.

2 hours ago, just Ryan said:

To sum it all up, rogue is the worst class in the game and have been like this for the last few updates now, I saw some comment about how +6 rogue killed +10 ranger etc, a rogue can never dodge ranger attacks.. they have a skill that makes their accu 50% at all times. if rogues are so op why are they being kicked from br/ru/eu guilds? no mobility no utility no aoe - for real I'll never consider ricochet an aoe skill-. people might say seeker is the same, no aoe etc.. but they have a better version of stealth, a pull, a shield, insane damage. hopefully something will come out of this, take care.

There is no worse class in the game, there are only classes that are good in one place and bad in the other. In this case rogue is good in pvp and bad in gxg. Rogue like you said has the best dps in the legion, and he's very good at pvp too. Ranger doesn't have a skill that makes him 50% accurate, he has one that gives 25%, and still is reduced to -20% with just 1 skill.

Rogues are being kicked by the guilds because guilds are being competitive in gxg events and want to get stronger as much as possible by putting good classes for this type of event in the guild. And unfortunately there's nothing you can do, even if the class is buffed to be competitive too, someone else would suffer the same problem, and that would end up buffing classes that don't need buffing and would unbalance the game.

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1 hour ago, Fabr said:

All classes have some bad or even useless skills, it's normal, you just mentioned the ones the rogue has. Frenzy isn't bad, +20% damage taken isn't a big deal as you're not a tank class, but I agree the duration is very short, it should last longer.

By the way, these 2 skills are wonderful compared to these other 2.

Screenshot_2021-08-16-23-25-45-1.png.2ab33f7ae090dc8938650a6a932194b7.png

Screenshot_2021-08-16-23-26-31-1.png.0dff14b16234a9c41455e80e5fbbf672.png

That would be copying the mage's ability, nothing original. Instead, he could damage anyone nearby as well.

 

It would copy the seeker's invisibility too. The stealth is already good.  You're not planning on attacking the flag alone, it doesn't work. Wait for the legion to rally to attack while the mages are busy dealing with the invaders, use the jump.

While this is true, on the other hand chief has the best mobility in the game, even better than the seeker.

Yeah, that sucks. Aigrind needs to remove these pots from the arena, it's pretty unfair.

Yes rogue is currently one of the worst classes for gxg. But I don't think there's any way to fix this without indirectly buffing the rogue in other aspects of the game, which is difficult, it's being replaced by hunters in guilds because they're better at gxgs. The same is happening with seekers.

Yes, you can't compare the damage of a rogue with that of the seeker. This really is broken.

There is no worse class in the game, there are only classes that are good in one place and bad in the other. In this case rogue is good in pvp and bad in gxg. Rogue like you said has the best dps in the legion, and he's very good at pvp too. Ranger doesn't have a skill that makes him 50% accurate, he has one that gives 25%, and still is reduced to -20% with just 1 skill.

Rogues are being kicked by the guilds because guilds are being competitive in gxg events and want to get stronger as much as possible by putting good classes for this type of event in the guild. And unfortunately there's nothing you can do, even if the class is buffed to be competitive too, someone else would suffer the same problem, and that would end up buffing classes that don't need buffing and would unbalance the game.

As for frenzy and ricochet.. Frenzy is useless when maxed out.. Why would I need that extra 5%crit chance when I already have max crit? The extra damage taken is..meh..why?

Frenzy and ricochet are by far 2 of the most useless skills in the game, even the 2 you mentioned are better. I'm not joking when I say ricochet tickles, it does tickle, no...it's more like someone blew air on your arm hair. That's the damage you can expect from it. 

Rogue is not a tank that's true..but it doesn't mean you can't use it to tank, every character in the game can tank/solo dgs when maxed out. There's a video of every character soloing dgs on youtube. I'll leave this question here, what is bd? Is it a tank? Damage dealer? Or cc control? They have agro and can use tank gear so is it a tank? They have 2.5k pve and pvp dmg so is it a damage dealer? They have aoe stun that last for an eternity so is it a cc control class? 

 

Yes I was talking about copying the seekers speed and mage's jump.. Rogue is an assassin with no mobility and he needs it badly, palas and mages have the same skill, 1 with damage the other with aoe.. I'm asking for neither, just a blink with no need for a target. 

 

As for chiefs.. It's broken I know, but it's the only mobile character in mc side, it's not enough, elfs have 4 fast characters, bds mages palas and seekers, 1 fast class for mc doesn't make that much difference. We can't all quit our main classes and make chief for mobility's sake. 

 

Rangers can have 50% accuracy in pvp 24/7..that skill gives 25% accuracy but don't forget to count the base accuracy with it.. Still - 45% accuracy reduction is stupid but not enough for rogues to kill rangers. 

 

There are ways of buffing the rogue without making it stupid op in other aspects, if you wanna buff his gvg potential give it mobility and aoe cc, if you wanna nerf its arena/1v1 potential nerf kick for example. When guilds start kicking 1 class and replace it with others there's something wrong with that class. A buff for rogue will never be scary, bds remained op since the early days of the game and we complained about it over and over till we learned to live with it, rangers have the potential to 1 shot people, 2 templars in 5v5 can bounce the enemy team back and forth for the duration of the match, chief is stupid, charmer is busted, rogues would need a massive buff in order to be that much scary. 

Edited by just Ryan
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7 hours ago, just Ryan said:

To sum it all up, rogue is the worst class in the game and have been like this for the last few updates now,

So when rogue can outdamage hunter on every raid boss and is outshined in certain aspects of the game it worst class in the game when there are classes that it outshines in those same things

 

4 hours ago, Fabr said:

even if the class is buffed to be competitive too, someone else would suffer the same problem, and that would end up buffing classes that don't need buffing and would unbalance the game.

If you think togue needs buffing now then by that logic those other classes would need buffing when rogue is buffed

 

Idk, sounds like you kinda want rogue to be overpowered

7 hours ago, just Ryan said:

if rogues are so op why are they being kicked from br/ru/eu guilds?

You know, there might be such thing as too many rogues so when that number can be almost half its no wonder that some are kicked to make guild more versatile and capable in gvgs where aoe damage and stuns are most useful

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W Pve buffs i agree rogue is only class without damage increase skills for example

Look bladedancers, Seekers, Hunters, rangers

everyone has atleast one or multiple increase Critical Damage, attack strenght, physical power etc, meanwhile other classes can hit 9-10k crits and even more rogue can hit 2k crits... it just need one dmg increase skill.. 

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8 hours ago, just Ryan said:

Stealth: I love this skill, the plays you can make with it are countless, but it's just not as good. I'd be ok to sacrifice the extra 50% damage on the first hit for movement speed, just this change can change rogue status from useless to usable in GvGs. In wars you can't really get close to the elf flag because of mages afking near crosses which will insta reveal you.

 

The mobility of the class is good the way it is tbh. Such change would be exaggerated if you consider that this combo would make rogues litterally run in no time from a certain place to a enemy located on the other section of the class. Plus, we have got Chieftains already: it would be simply unnecessary in my opinion. 

 

9 hours ago, just Ryan said:

Now i'll talk a bit about arena, but before I do.. I have a few words about detection pot and castle pots being usable in arena in general,

why?why?why?why?why?why? 

Druids and shamans with lifeforce pots are immortal gods.

 

This is off topic. 

 

All in all I don't disagree on giving rogues a certain utility in many vs many scenarios, but I would do it in terms of damage dealt, more than mobility. 

 

 

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Rogues are just fine as they are. Well geared and amped rogues are one of the strongest classes in the game due to multiple reasons which i'm too lazy to go over in a wall of text. As for why rogues don't have a damage increasing skill as far as i'd guess is because they don't need one. Rogues can easily do similar amounts of damage compared to lets say hunters and bds since they can use axes and easily reach the maximum attack speed thanks to extermination still giving too much (imo) for some reason (if not counting seekers inspiration and solar power its by far the best buff skill besides maybe bd's PoB but that skill is an anomaly). Of course spring axes having "terrible" stats doesn't help but overall from what i've seen rogues carry themselves just fine in pve.

 

There's no reason to compare any class to seekers in terms of dps since that's the only thing they specialize in and are fairly useless in every other regard (do note that seeker has to be the tank for the best results). Don't get me wrong, the mobility from stealth is nice but you cant even take advantage of it where it would make the biggest difference (mermen trials). It's kind of nice but not necessary in the least. Mostly seekers level stealth because it gives them a chance to stun when hitting out of it and because there's not many good skills to put points in besides the obvious ones.

 

As a side note, not every skill has to be good. Seekers have plenty of trashy skills to go with the pretty good ones. And its the same with pretty much every class.

Edited by Raislin
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9 hours ago, Jcbreff said:

So when rogue can outdamage hunter on every raid boss and is outshined in certain aspects of the game it worst class in the game when there are classes that it outshines in those same things

 

If you think togue needs buffing now then by that logic those other classes would need buffing when rogue is buffed

 

Idk, sounds like you kinda want rogue to be overpowered

You know, there might be such thing as too many rogues so when that number can be almost half its no wonder that some are kicked to make guild more versatile and capable in gvgs where aoe damage and stuns are most useful

Rogues can't outdamage hunters on raid bosses, it is literally the worst class in the game, 

 

Which other class needs a buff? Chief? Templar? Bd? Charmer? 

 

I don't want rogues to be overpowered, just viable, 

and no I wasn't talking about too many rogues. There's a problem when br/ru guilds have 2 rogues max, and guilds in eu have less than 10. 

 

7 hours ago, Higgings said:

 

The mobility of the class is good the way it is tbh. Such change would be exaggerated if you consider that this combo would make rogues litterally run in no time from a certain place to a enemy located on the other section of the class. Plus, we have got Chieftains already: it would be simply unnecessary in my opinion. 

 

 

This is off topic. 

 

All in all I don't disagree on giving rogues a certain utility in many vs many scenarios, but I would do it in terms of damage dealt, more than mobility. 

 

 

There's no mobility for this class, it still won't be as fast as chiefs. 1 fast class is not enough compared to the 4 mobile classes elfs have. If a rogue is caught with no stealth it's dead. 

 

Rogues can already deal alot of damage and they don't need more of it, any damage buff will make it a terror in 2v2 arena, we have physical chiefs to 1 shot us don't need more classes to do that. 

 

3 hours ago, Raislin said:

Rogues are just fine as they are. Well geared and amped rogues are one of the strongest classes in the game due to multiple reasons which i'm too lazy to go over in a wall of text. As for why rogues don't have a damage increasing skill as far as i'd guess is because they don't need one. Rogues can easily do similar amounts of damage compared to lets say hunters and bds since they can use axes and easily reach the maximum attack speed thanks to extermination still giving too much (imo) for some reason (if not counting seekers inspiration and solar power its by far the best buff skill besides maybe bd's PoB but that skill is an anomaly). Of course spring axes having "terrible" stats doesn't help but overall from what i've seen rogues carry themselves just fine in pve.

 

There's no reason to compare any class to seekers in terms of dps since that's the only thing they specialize in and are fairly useless in every other regard (do note that seeker has to be the tank for the best results). Don't get me wrong, the mobility from stealth is nice but you cant even take advantage of it where it would make the biggest difference (mermen trials). It's kind of nice but not necessary in the least. Mostly seekers level stealth because it gives them a chance to stun when hitting out of it and because there's not many good skills to put points in besides the obvious ones.

 

As a side note, not every skill has to be good. Seekers have plenty of trashy skills to go with the pretty good ones. And its the same with pretty much every class.

Rogues aren't in a position to be called fine, they're not even close to that, my rogue is maxed out and can outplay with it, but the best you can do in gvg is tank that 8k damage or 1 of your shamans die. If you're out of stealth in arena there's no gap closer for you, everything can outrange you. 

 

Sorry but your guess is wrong, while rogue can outdamage hunters in most pve aspects, there's no chance for 5 rogue pt to get a raid boss kill, hunters are just so much better. Even daggers aren't enough to outdamage hunters, as for bd its the ultimate class, it's a tank, damage dealer, cc, you name it, even this "tank" can outdamage rogues. Seekers don't only specialize in dps, their pve damage is stupid, their pull can make or break a 5v5 match, their faster better stealth make them unpredictable. Everything seekers do just give them more damage output. If they take damage they do more damage if they breathe they do more damage. 

 

There's a difference between not good and garbage tier. Frenzy and ricochet are useless, if you use them you'll lose on damage you could be doing with autos or other skills. 

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2 hours ago, just Ryan said:

There's no mobility for this class, it still won't be as fast as chiefs. 1 fast class is not enough compared to the 4 mobile classes elfs have. If a rogue is caught with no stealth it's dead. 

 

Jump, although it needs a target, allows you to "teleport" from a zone to the nearest enemy. It is by fact a mobility/dmg skill (if we consider Pala's jump or Mage's time warp mobility skills). The difference relies on the necessity of a target for the first skill, unlike the other 2. Any class with no resist or reliable stunning skills (e.g. Paladin's FoJ or Druid's song) on its arsenal is most likely dead if cought under certain situations; seekers' situation is even worse, imo. In this case, I would focus on defensive skills more than mobility ones. 

 

2 hours ago, just Ryan said:

If you're out of stealth in arena there's no gap closer for you, everything can outrange you. 

 

In arena you ought to count on at least another mate who is supposed to back you up. Too many situations to consider. And for the same reason above, Jump might be a gap closer. Forgive me, but I see it as a biased statement. At my eyes, these are reasons for which this class "deserves" defensive skills. 

 

Long story short, "garbage" is not definitely the word I would use to describe this class; maybe in "need of some love" but in a defensive sense (if not in a damage sense)

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3 hours ago, just Ryan said:

Rogues can't outdamage hunters on raid bosses, it is literally the worst class in the game

If rogues could outdamage hunter then applying this logic hunters could say that theyre the worst class in the game

 

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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, Jcbreff said:

If rogues could outdamage hunter then applying this logic hunters could say that theyre the worst class in the game

 

What I meant by this is there's no aspect in the game you could call a rogue "best" at. Rogues only outshine hunters in some dgs and 2v2 and that's about it. Hunters are way better in gvgs, 5v5, most dgs. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Higgings said:

 

Jump, although it needs a target, allows you to "teleport" from a zone to the nearest enemy. It is by fact a mobility/dmg skill (if we consider Pala's jump or Mage's time warp mobility skills). The difference relies on the necessity of a target for the first skill, unlike the other 2. Any class with no resist or reliable stunning skills (e.g. Paladin's FoJ or Druid's song) on its arsenal is most likely dead if cought under certain situations; seekers' situation is even worse, imo. In this case, I would focus on defensive skills more than mobility ones. 

 

 

In arena you ought to count on at least another mate who is supposed to back you up. Too many situations to consider. And for the same reason above, Jump might be a gap closer. Forgive me, but I see it as a biased statement. At my eyes, these are reasons for which this class "deserves" defensive skills. 

 

Long story short, "garbage" is not definitely the word I would use to describe this class; maybe in "need of some love" but in a defensive sense (if not in a damage sense)

You said it yourself.. Jump needs a target to close the gap as it it the case for barb rush.. I don't consider those mobility skills as they require a target to use them. All classes with mobility skills have ways to use them without dying, we've all seen mages jumping in arena 1v5, they don't need to worry they have 2 aoe stuns following the jump+the shield.. Palas are the best pvp tank period. Druids can be immortal or make someone immortal. Seekers have insane damage but little to no defense, but let's not forget they can use the best pvp relics on 3 basic skills so arena isn't a problem for them. Rogues doesn't need defensive skills cuz in the good hand they'll make it op. 

 

In arena if you meet 1 guy using detection pot you're basically useless and it's up to your teammate to 1v2. Mate you have no idea what it feels like getting bullied in 2v2 by a druid or ranger with detection pots, their skills have 7yd range while rogues have 5,they can and will reveal you, if a rogue is revealed it's dead. Jump is not used as a gap closer because nowadays once you use it you'll get cc'd to death, almost all rogues use it as an extra damaging skill, a rogue buff is necessary, it's in a worse place than dk now and you know how bad dk is. 

 

This class is bad, I've played it for 11 years and this is its worst era. It's not in need of defensive skills but some gvg utility.. Aka mobility/aoe. 

Edited by just Ryan
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Considering the fact that rogues *can* reach 100% chance to dodge any attacks that arent quaranteed to hit i'd say their defensive capabilites are more than good enough. It's mostly against casters since they are notoriously low on accuracy most of the time but still. The fact that kick makes you have negative accuracy and its even fully loopable if it doesn't get resisted is ridiculous. So basically unless you are fighting a decent bladedancer with their stupid resist skill there's no reason for you not to have atleast 80% chance to dodge any attacks if you have had half a brain while gearing your rogues pvp set. My seeker is on the high end of accuracy in terms of pvp sets(25%+ thanks to accuracy bonus from greatness set) and i still go to -10-15% accuracy, which in turn makes most sensibly built rogues dodge 70-75% of the time. And lets not even talk about the stuns rogues recently got that made their life even easier.

 

Of course rogues can reach this amount of dodge and barely lose out on any resilience or damage if any at all (havent checked calculator for a while but since my rogue is lv26 with maxed gear i can safely say i know what i'm talking about). 

 

Seeker's are indeed all about the damage, but they are very poor in terms of survivability. Yes they have a shield, but here you have to realize it doesnt block much damage at all, im sure someone has gone over the maths of how the skill works but i can say that in top level pvp it might take 1 hits worth of damage and a bit of the 2nd depending on the class you are facing and how well amped they are. But the big difference between seeker and rogue is that other than that shield they have no other defensive abilities so if you stun them the damage they gained from breaking the shield is irrelevant, while rogues dodge is a mostly passive ability they have that will have a "chance" to work any time and it also helps to deal with a large majority of "stuns" that are in the game.

 

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You also have to look at the positive sides of the class rather than just looking at the negatives.

 

You can't compare the damage a rogue can do with that of a seeker or bd, because imagine if the rogue gained 25% attack strength because "he's weaker than bd and seeker", it would unbalance the game because rogue has one of the strongest combos in the game, it does very high damage in a short time and seeker doesn't have it, and would have the same attack strength as a seeker, even using 1-handed axes.

 

He has more survival than hunter or seeker because he can have very high dodge and decrease enemy accuracy by 45% and can leave with negative stats, isn't that defensive enough? And it can heal very easily too, it's not like the seeker who has to use 1 useless skill just to leave the target bleeding in order to heal. Imagine if he gained +1 defensive skill.

 

Rogue can reach 65% speed using 1HAND AXES only with skills and guild buff lvl 10, which aggravates even more than what I said about rogue having attack strength above.

 

But yes he's bad at gxg, but imagine if he had a GOOD aoe damage skill, which would make him more accepted in guilds, then the charmer would be the new "worst at gxg" and complain too, and we'd have a new topic about it on the forum.

 

 

 

But still, I agree that there should be something that would make it more useful in gxg battles.

Edited by Fabr
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1 hour ago, just Ryan said:

In arena if you meet 1 guy using detection pot you're basically useless and it's up to your teammate to 1v2

 

You shouldn't consider additional objects to determine the strength of a certain class; it leads to wrong results. A rogue with castle scrolls and pot being capable to heal itself by 3k (and trust me, it's easy to do so if you're maxed) is strong at the eyes of another class.

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1 hour ago, Raislin said:

Considering the fact that rogues *can* reach 100% chance to dodge any attacks that arent quaranteed to hit i'd say their defensive capabilites are more than good enough. It's mostly against casters since they are notoriously low on accuracy most of the time but still. The fact that kick makes you have negative accuracy and its even fully loopable if it doesn't get resisted is ridiculous. So basically unless you are fighting a decent bladedancer with their stupid resist skill there's no reason for you not to have atleast 80% chance to dodge any attacks if you have had half a brain while gearing your rogues pvp set. My seeker is on the high end of accuracy in terms of pvp sets(25%+ thanks to accuracy bonus from greatness set) and i still go to -10-15% accuracy, which in turn makes most sensibly built rogues dodge 70-75% of the time. And lets not even talk about the stuns rogues recently got that made their life even easier.

 

Of course rogues can reach this amount of dodge and barely lose out on any resilience or damage if any at all (havent checked calculator for a while but since my rogue is lv26 with maxed gear i can safely say i know what i'm talking about). 

 

Seeker's are indeed all about the damage, but they are very poor in terms of survivability. Yes they have a shield, but here you have to realize it doesnt block much damage at all, im sure someone has gone over the maths of how the skill works but i can say that in top level pvp it might take 1 hits worth of damage and a bit of the 2nd depending on the class you are facing and how well amped they are. But the big difference between seeker and rogue is that other than that shield they have no other defensive abilities so if you stun them the damage they gained from breaking the shield is irrelevant, while rogues dodge is a mostly passive ability they have that will have a "chance" to work any time and it also helps to deal with a large majority of "stuns" that are in the game.

 

Considering the fact that rogues requires a set up before getting *100% dodge*, I'm not saying it's not good.. But what use does it have in gvg? Rangers will eat you alive they don't care about your 60% dodge they have 50%accu. Against casters dodge rogues will struggle due to perma stuns especially to druids and shamans, stun builds will make your life easier but as a down side no more *100% dodge* for you, you can't pick them both, it's either the stuns or dodge, unless you wanna keep extermination at 1/4..if you do that you might as well delete your rogue.. 

 

As for your seeker, you're not obligated to fight a rogue 1v1 and if you do there's a little known trick, seekers can use dispelling relics 3 times with 30% chance of application each, dodge rogues can't stun you so they wanna keep you engaged, you can just sleep them and wait for the kick effect to wear off, when you come out of invis you'll have your stuns ready which are on 100% chance btw. I don't care for the dodge playstyle as it's boring and only find use in 1v1.

 

And I can tell you with full confidence that if rogues go for 60% dodge build they'll lose out on stuns and pvp damage, and I have my maxed out lvl 32 rogue to back this up. So I can safely say I know what I'm talking about. 

 

Seekers shield is not the problem for me, it's not a defensive ability, what's scary is what will happen after it. And aside from that shield they have a sleep skill and a better version of stealth that makes them near impossible to catch. With seeker you pick your fights, if there's a losing fight you don't have to take it. Again I have no intention of using dodge builds again cuz it's mainly for 1v1, dodge rogue is not even scary in 2v2 or gvg.. If you lose to dodge rogues you just have to how to deal with it. I'm not asking for a 1v1 buff.. This game never was about 1v1 interactions. 

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59 minutes ago, Fabr said:

You also have to look at the positive sides of the class rather than just looking at the negatives.

 

You can't compare the damage a rogue can do with that of a seeker or bd, because imagine if the rogue gained 25% attack strength because "he's weaker than bd and seeker", it would unbalance the game because rogue has one of the strongest combos in the game, it does very high damage in a short time and seeker doesn't have it, and would have the same attack strength as a seeker, even using 1-handed axes.

 

He has more survival than hunter or seeker because he can have very high dodge and decrease enemy accuracy by 45% and can leave with negative stats, isn't that defensive enough? And it can heal very easily too, it's not like the seeker who has to use 1 useless skill just to leave the target bleeding in order to heal. Imagine if he gained +1 defensive skill.

 

Rogue can reach 65% speed using 1HAND AXES only with skills and guild buff lvl 10, which aggravates even more than what I said about rogue having attack strength above.

 

But yes he's bad at gxg, but imagine if he had a GOOD aoe damage skill, which would make him more accepted in guilds, then the charmer would be the new "worst at gxg" and complain too, and we'd have a new topic about it on the forum.

 

 

The positives.. With the right build and playstyle rogue can perma stun in 1v1, that's not news since every class can perma stun now, even seekers believe it or now, in fact they have a more reliable perma stuns due to their stuns being on 100% chance. 

 

Mate you said rogues have one of the best combos.. In the right hands that's true, but it doesn't do the highest damage nor is it the most reliable, rangers can kill you in less than a second, seekers can pull stun and kill you with 3 autos. Rogue's main stun combo requires a set up, then 5 seconds to unleash it, the set up takes another 5 seconds, rangers click on blessing and spam skills, you're most likely dead before the 3rd skill. In EU we have seekers than can auto 2k in pvp, and they have a simple combo in all arenas and gvgs..they pull you they stun you they auto you you die. You said rogues can do the same dmg as seekers with 1h axes.. Mate this is a bold statement, I can assure you rogues aren't even close to the damage seekers can dish off, and axes have way less dpm than daggers, I'm not joking when I say seekers can crit 16k with normal pve daggers and do 2k damage per auto in pvp on my maxed out rogue. WITH DAGGERS. 

 

I'm tired of hearing about high dodge 45%accu etc etc, if you choose dodge build there's 0 dodge for you.. If you choose dodge build there's no stun for you.. Can't have them both. And the heal is never easy. You need 2 expert skills to get the heal, meaning 4 second delay, you need to use poison, apply it on the target then stun it, you could miss the stun or miss the poison, healing takes 7 sec of planning and things to go right, if they were to give seekers defensive skills they'll have to take away some of its offensive capability. Negative stats was a horrible idea, you should never have negative accu cd or anything. 

 

Rogues with axes even with 70% speed have no chance vs seekers, axes are slower and daggers do way more damage, and seekers are better at using them than rogues. 

 

Mate.. Why are you bringing up charmers? You know rogues Will never replace charmers it's actually the worst comparison. Charmers are immortal with lvl 32 mermen tank gear. 

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32 minutes ago, Higgings said:

 

You shouldn't consider additional objects to determine the strength of a certain class; it leads to wrong results. A rogue with castle scrolls and pot being capable to heal itself by 3k (and trust me, it's easy to do so if you're maxed) is strong at the eyes of another class.

I find this little ironic cause on other post u  and other mods talk how we should ignore buffs 

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32 minutes ago, Higgings said:

 

You shouldn't consider additional objects to determine the strength of a certain class; it leads to wrong results. A rogue with castle scrolls and pot being capable to heal itself by 3k (and trust me, it's easy to do so if you're maxed) is strong at the eyes of another class.

When I spam 2v2s I'm mostly buffed from head to toe, there's nothing a rogue can do vs detection pots, NOTHING. Again.. The healing takes 7 seconds to apply and it's hard to do vs tanks.. They could block the auto carrying the poison.. They could block or resist trickiest technique. You're rarely focusing on the healing in high level arena as it takes way too long to apply. 

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3 hours ago, just Ryan said:

What I meant by this is there's no aspect in the game you could call a rogue "best" at

does every class need to be best at something though :pin1:, i mean there are 18 different classes and situations that come to mind are: raid/bosses,dgs,gvgs,arena,1v1,questing,tanking,damaging,healing,support so if we can put one class to each of these that is "best" at it then there would still be 8 remaining

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Rogue literally has the highest pvp dmg output from any class *while still having a viable resi set*(except maybe a charmer with rage crit relic on and multiple dogs up). You get 70% speed, without using a single speed enchant, while having max dodge, 2 stuns(1 of which heals), and a gouge that lasts about a year.

 

Also, Stealth is trash vs a good team, detects or not. (You don't need it anyway) Kick makes 1 person unable to even damage you, (if its resisted you get reaction relic) which is huge in 2v2 and 3v3s. Paired with a decent healer or a barb to single out targets, they can be insane without even bothering with stealth for anything else than activating relics. (Which means you can basically guarantee an ice captivity relic every arena fight with exterms high cd boost combined with stealths low base cd. Which alone makes you immune to be nuked by rangers, or anything really)

 

If your whole idea of playing rogue is stealthing and jumping someone at random expecting for things to die, no wonder you dont do so well. There are some incredibly good rogue users in eu atleast, that are always scary to fight. Even on a fully awarded bd.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, just Ryan said:

The positives.. With the right build and playstyle rogue can perma stun in 1v1, that's not news since every class can perma stun now, even seekers believe it or now, in fact they have a more reliable perma stuns due to their stuns being on 100% chance

Seeker only has 1 skill that has a 100% chance to stun, the other 2 are with chances.

1 hour ago, just Ryan said:

Mate you said rogues have one of the best combos.. In the right hands that's true, but it doesn't do the highest damage nor is it the most reliable, rangers can kill you in less than a second, seekers can pull stun and kill you with 3 autos.

Are you sure you're not fighting someone much stronger than you?

Ranger doesn't kill that easily unless he's extremely lucky to activate the blessing 3 times in a row. Seeker also doesn't kill anyone in 3 hits, unless it's critical hit, but that doesn't happen in pvp because of resilience.

And I also think you're playing wrong.

Against ranger you can simply combo him and kill him easily without him being able to counterattack, if you use kick in the back first you're giving him a chance to combo you. Against seeker is the same thing, combo first, kick later.

stealth makes sure you attack first too, assuming there's no one else who can spot you.

1 hour ago, just Ryan said:

And the heal is never easy. You need 2 expert skills to get the heal, meaning 4 second delay, you need to use poison, apply it on the target then stun it, you could miss the stun or miss the poison, healing takes 7 sec of planning and things to go right, if they were to give seekers defensive skills they'll have to take away some of its offensive capability. Negative stats was a horrible idea, you should never have negative accu cd or anything. 

Simply use the poison before any attacks, like a normal buff. When comboing, use flurry of steel first, it will poison the target, then the skill that gives you healing.

1 hour ago, just Ryan said:

In EU we have seekers than can auto 2k in pvp, and they have a simple combo in all arenas and gvgs

Seeker can't hit 2k on someone with the same amp as him, ever. Make sure you're not going to fight using set pve against set pvp. And also the only skill he has a chance to use on gxg is the one that pulls someone to him, he'll hardly have a chance to attack someone.

1 hour ago, just Ryan said:

You said rogues can do the same dmg as seekers with 1h axes.. Mate this is a bold statement, I can assure you rogues aren't even close to the damage seekers can dish off, and axes have way less dpm than daggers, I'm not joking when I say seekers can crit 16k with normal pve daggers and do 2k damage per auto in pvp on my maxed out rogue. WITH DAGGERS. 

 

I never said that... I said IF he had the same attack strength as the seeker has with exacerbation (attack strength = stat).

1 hour ago, just Ryan said:

Mate.. Why are you bringing up charmers? You know rogues Will never replace charmers it's actually the worst comparison. Charmers are immortal with lvl 32 mermen tank gear. 

I just said what would happen if rogue got a big buff.

 

Edited by Fabr
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32 minutes ago, vavavi said:

Also, Stealth is trash vs a good team, detects or not. (You don't need it anyway)

That's true. Pvp rogues don't even study this skill anymore, some even leave 3/5.

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1 hour ago, Jcbreff said:

does every class need to be best at something though :pin1:, i mean there are 18 different classes and situations that come to mind are: raid/bosses,dgs,gvgs,arena,1v1,questing,tanking,damaging,healing,support so if we can put one class to each of these that is "best" at it then there would still be 8 remaining

Not necessarily the best, for raid bosses it's a 2nd option. Best in most dgs. Worst in gvg. Good in 2v2 with the right partner. 1v1 is not even an important aspect of the game. Questing at lvl 32? And so on.. This post is all about viability in gvgs, it's non existant. 

 

1 hour ago, vavavi said:

Rogue literally has the highest pvp dmg output from any class *while still having a viable resi set*(except maybe a charmer with rage crit relic on and multiple dogs up). You get 70% speed, without using a single speed enchant, while having max dodge, 2 stuns(1 of which heals), and a gouge that lasts about a year.

 

Also, Stealth is trash vs a good team, detects or not. (You don't need it anyway) Kick makes 1 person unable to even damage you, (if its resisted you get reaction relic) which is huge in 2v2 and 3v3s. Paired with a decent healer or a barb to single out targets, they can be insane without even bothering with stealth for anything else than activating relics. (Which means you can basically guarantee an ice captivity relic every arena fight with exterms high cd boost combined with stealths low base cd. Which alone makes you immune to be nuked by rangers, or anything really)

 

If your whole idea of playing rogue is stealthing and jumping someone at random expecting for thigs to die, no wonder you dont do so well. There are some incredibly good rogue users in eu atleast, that are always scary to fight. Even on a fully awarded bd.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Says a bd, bro your bd can do 2.5k damage with autos while maintaining 60%resi and high resistance. You even made a video of you one shotting people. As I said before there's no way you can max out all stats for pvp. You have to choose between stuns or dodge. And you can't reach 70% without enchants or books. The *healing stun*requires another skill to get the healing effect, which most people don't even use. As for gouge, I believe I'm the only one on eu to have it at 5/5. Most people have it at 1/5 or 3/5. At 5/5 it lasts 9 seconds. Which is the same duration as bds hamstring and rush, which are stuns not sleep. Meaning you can ham on them for these 9 seconds and them watching. 

 

If you say stealth is trash, explain how I outplayed your bd on multiple occasions? 

 

Ok now you're basically explaining how I play, I already know all of this but what use difference can all of this make in gvg fights? 

 

I didn't say I don't do well in arena I win most of the time except to palas and druids.. But find me a rogue that can do well in gvgs. You play bd like an old man tbh you just rush in with resistance and if that fails you have no back up, dodge rogues eat you it's why you're struggling vs them. But since 2v2 is the subject here I've beaten most if not all the good rogues. Stun build is way superior and the downside of it is 39% max dodge. Imagine a bd saying rogue is broken smh

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2 hours ago, Santa Claus said:

I find this little ironic cause on other post u  and other mods talk how we should ignore buffs 

 

I invite you to read my post properly. The second sentence was a mere example of what would happen if we added further (sometimes useless and misleading) variables to the equation: an inappropriate or wrong result. 

 

22 minutes ago, just Ryan said:

hamstring and rush, which are stuns not sleep

 

Just a little correction about Hamstrings, being a disabling/root skill and not a stun whatsoever. But it's irrelevant to the point you're trying to give, so just take it as a random information. 

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1 hour ago, Fabr said:

Seeker only has 1 skill that has a 100% chance to stun, the other 2 are with chances.

Are you sure you're not fighting someone much stronger than you?

Ranger doesn't kill that easily unless he's extremely lucky to activate the blessing 3 times in a row. Seeker also doesn't kill anyone in 3 hits, unless it's critical hit, but that doesn't happen in pvp because of resilience.

And I also think you're playing wrong.

Against ranger you can simply combo him and kill him easily without him being able to counterattack, if you use kick in the back first you're giving him a chance to combo you. Against seeker is the same thing, combo first, kick later.

stealth makes sure you attack first too, assuming there's no one else who can spot you.

Simply use the poison before any attacks, like a normal buff. When comboing, use flurry of steel first, it will poison the target, then the skill that gives you healing.

Seeker can't hit 2k on someone with the same amp as him, ever. Make sure you're not going to fight using set pve against set pvp. And also the only skill he has a chance to use on gxg is the one that pulls someone to him, he'll hardly have a chance to attack someone.

 

I never said that... I said IF he had the same attack strength as the seeker has with exacerbation (attack strength = stat).

I just said what would happen if rogue got a big buff.

 

Ok so that's 3 stuns + sleep + pull for seeker to 2 stuns both of which are on a chance + sleep for rogue. 

 

Rangers on eu does kill that easily mate, let's say they're stronger than me, how are they doing 1.5k dmg on my 58% resi shaman partner, or seekers doing 2k dmg on him. 

 

Mate can you not teach me how to play my main char? I don't care about 1v1 interactions as I mentioned many times already. Lemme tell you what happens in 2v2, rangers use detection pots, they can use powerful shot or whatever it's called from 7 tiles away then cage and you die. 

 

Yeah yeah fight using pvp set.. Like I'm even gonna use pve, again you're mentioning 1v1 interactions, I can deal with that, the post is about gvg. What do you have to say about rogue's viability in gvg? 

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2 hours ago, just Ryan said:

 

Says a bd, bro your bd can do 2.5k damage with autos while maintaining 60%resi and high resistance. You even made a video of you one shotting people.

There is a difference between one hitting people with so bad gears they're basically naked, and fighting actually geared people.

 

2 hours ago, just Ryan said:

And you can't reach 70% without enchants or books. 

 

Fine, you can reach 68%, without books or a single enchant.

2 hours ago, just Ryan said:

 

If you say stealth is trash, explain how I outplayed your bd on multiple occasions?

Personally i feel like it's usually the shamans and locks supporting the rogues that do the outplaying. But I suppose i could be wrong.

 

2 hours ago, just Ryan said:

You play bd like an old man tbh. you just rush in with resistance and if that fails you have no back up, dodge rogues eat you it's why you're struggling vs them. But since 2v2 is the subject here I've beaten most if not all the good rogues.

BDs work perfectly as a damage sponge/distraction class, so the less tanky backline classes can pick off isolated targets while you keep people busy. But thats a bit off topic.

 

And about dodge rogues eating bds alive, it can happen. If you can't avoid kick atleast, but lucky for me, there is a cure.1752316536_Screenshot_20210818-040945_WarspearOnline.jpg.d6f2fe74f88678ea0af2b9f9e8e7c752.jpg

Representing, The Kick Vaccine.

2 hours ago, just Ryan said:

 

Rangers on eu does kill that easily mate, let's say they're stronger than me, how are they doing 1.5k dmg on my 58% resi shaman partner, or seekers doing 2k dmg on him. 

If you're getting hit 1,5k by rangers, maybe you're just fighting way higher amped and better geared people. Which would also explain the issues you have in other arenas. I hit properly geared shamans, max 1200, on a fully buffed, fully booked bd. There is no way anyone with 58 resi is getting hit 2k by seekers.

2 hours ago, just Ryan said:

Imagine a bd saying rogue is broken smh

Never said they are broken, just that they're easily one of the best pvp classes, and are also great in dungeons.

 

 

2 hours ago, just Ryan said:

Not necessarily the best, for raid bosses it's a 2nd option. Best in most dgs. Worst in gvg. Good in 2v2 with the right partner. 1v1 is not even an important aspect of the game.

 

2 hours ago, just Ryan said:

again you're mentioning 1v1 interactions, I can deal with that,

 

2 hours ago, just Ryan said:

I didn't say I don't do well in arena I win most of the time except to palas and druids..

 

2 hours ago, just Ryan said:

If you say stealth is trash, explain how I outplayed your bd on multiple occasions? 

 

 

Ok, so by now you've said that rogues are: The 2nd best dmg class for raid bosses, best in most dgs, that they're good for 2v2, they can handle 1v1s, have skills that allow outplays, and that you manage to win most arenas on one.

 

Um... maybe im missing something, but why did you want them to get a buff? Every class has a weakness, and judging from what a rogue main, who clearly understands how the class works, has said, group fights are rogues only one.

 

You know what other class has that same weakness, but it's also combined with multiple other weaknesses, which do prevent them for being viable in all of those earlier mentioned areas? Seekers

 

Feels like this topic would fit better if it was about them instead of rogues.

 

 

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, vavavi said:

There is a difference between one hitting people with so bad gears they're basically naked, and fighting actually geared people.

 

 

 

Fine, you can reach 68%, without books or a single enchant.

Personally i feel like it's usually the shamans and locks supporting the rogues that do the outplaying. But I suppose i could be wrong.

 

BDs work perfectly as a damage sponge/distraction class, so the less tanky backline classes can pick off isolated targets while you keep people busy. But thats a bit off topic.

 

And about dodge rogues eating bds alive, it can happen. If you can't avoid kick atleast, but lucky for me, there is a cure.1752316536_Screenshot_20210818-040945_WarspearOnline.jpg.d6f2fe74f88678ea0af2b9f9e8e7c752.jpg

Representing, The Kick Vaccine.

If you're getting hit 1,5k by rangers, maybe you're just fighting way higher amped and better geared people. Which would also explain the issues you have in other arenas. I hit properly geared shamans, max 1200, on a fully buffed, fully booked bd. There is no way anyone with 58 resi is getting hit 2k by seekers.

Never said they are broken, just that they're easily one of the best pvp classes, and are also great in dungeons.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ok, so by now you've said that rogues are: The 2nd best dmg class for raid bosses, best in most dgs, that they're good for 2v2, they can handle 1v1s, have skills that allow outplays, and that you manage to win most arenas on one.

 

Um... maybe im missing something, but why did you want them to get a buff? Every class has a weakness, and judging from what a rogue main, who clearly understands how the class works, has said, group fights are rogues only one.

 

You know what other class has that same weakness, but it's also combined with multiple other weaknesses, which do prevent them for being viable in all of those earlier mentioned areas? Seekers

 

Feels like this topic would fit better if it was about them instead of rogues.

 

 

Alright let's compare then, a bd hitting naked people can do maybe 2.6k damage, the max pvp damage rogues can do on a naked target is around 1.8k.

 

A 68%speed dodge rogue, may I ask where did you put your other skill points? As I've said like 7 times already, you can't have the stuns and dodge together, you need to give up one for the other which is something I agree with. 

 

Bds can be a damage sponge/distraction if we ignore the fact that they have a 9 second true stun and 3 resistance charges backed up by monstrous damage. But as you mentioned it's off topic...

 

As I've mentioned before my rogue is maxed, so the low amped argument doesn't work here, I've seen you do 1.6k damage on a +10 awarded warlock mate. 

 

One of the best pvp chars huh, a 1v1 class, when will 1v1s ever be useful in gvgs? gvg is the main reason I made this post and everyone is drifting to 1v1. You're not obligated to fight a rogue 1v1 head on. And you're not obligated to fight anyone 1v1. It's not the main purpose of high level guilds. 

 

So I said rogues are the 2nd best class for raid bosses.. Let us see the options we have, hunters, rogues, chiefs, locks. Yeah good luck getting a raid boss with chiefs and locks as your damage dealers. Best in most dgs sure.. Pve so far, good 2v2 and 1v1 sure.. But when will guilds inv rogues for their 1v1/2v2 capabilities? High level guilds care about gvgs more than anything now which rogue has no contribution to. 

 

The question everyone is keep asking, why buff rogues.. When +10 rogues gets kicked from a guild and replaced by +8 chiefs there's something wrong with the class. Group fight are THE MAIN PURPOSE OF THE GAME RIGHT NOW. You brought up weaknesses, let's talk about that, starting with bd, it's the perfect class with 0 flaws, rangers have melee stun, ranged root, displacement skill and insane damage, druids are gods. So as you see, not every class has a weakness, these 3 chars can be great everywhere, and it so happens all of them can perma stun in 1v1, be great in low scale fights, while being viable in gvgs. 

 

Now you said seekers are even worse, pve they're the best of the best no questions asked, nothing can come close to seekers in pve, in 1v1 they can perma stun, in 2v2 they also have a sleep to make the fight 1v2 and have more damage, in gvgs a seeker can move from one corner of the map to the other in 10 seconds without being spotted and setting up a good unity plus the ability to pull key targets like locks and shamans and force them to melee range mid fight. So how is this post about seekers again? They're literally better than their mc counterpart in every. Possible. Way

Edited by just Ryan
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Because of fake news i thought it would be a fun experiment to see this "seekers do 2k damage hurr durr" So there you go.  Both times had 10 stacks of dmg buff from shield and only difference being i had lv4 earth protect active in one. I realize this adds nothing of interest to the conversation but i cant be bothered to lose anymore braincells than i have already so ill just leave it at this.

Spoiler

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warspear_rbXyk2txuF.png.18fc3fc9e2b584e888120ba3f156978d.pngwarspear_4OfinSyWF2.png.b4e8dc64999bc03940bd0d14d912b394.png

 

Edited by Raislin
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Rogues are fine where they at. They play a critical role in gvg. They have the best survivability compared to any other light armor users and can output high dmg. 

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26 minutes ago, Speedom said:

Rogues are fine where they at. They play a critical role in gvg. They have the best survivability compared to any other light armor users and can output high dmg. 

I have seen well built rogues tank dungeons well but in my opinion Chief is better at survivability an BD is better at both 

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33 minutes ago, Speedom said:

Rogues are fine where they at. They play a critical role in gvg. They have the best survivability compared to any other light armor users and can output high dmg. 

Sorry to disappoint you but rogues do nothing in gvgs, if they're critical you'll see guilds recruit them instead of replacing them with hunters and chiefs. 

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7 minutes ago, Drakoknight said:

I have seen well built rogues tank dungeons well but in my opinion Chief is better at survivability an BD is better at both 

Most well built rogues can tank dgs, but nowadays all classes can tank and solo dgs.. The problem here is gvg. 

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1 hour ago, Drakoknight said:

I have seen well built rogues tank dungeons well but in my opinion Chief is better at survivability an BD is better at both 

Yea we all know that for sure lol. However, Rogues are very reliable as any other class in this game. I don't recommend any Rogues to delete or quit their Rogue just for a Chief because of "dmg, aoe or better survivability." Rogues are the OGs in this game. 

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7 hours ago, just Ryan said:

Sorry to disappoint you but rogues do nothing in gvgs, if they're critical you'll see guilds recruit them instead of replacing them with hunters and chiefs. 

Probably because the ones in the guild does nothing.

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14 hours ago, just Ryan said:

Sorry to disappoint you but rogues do nothing in gvgs, if they're critical you'll see guilds recruit them instead of replacing them with hunters and chiefs. 

In TheForlorn we have a rogue named Ninjajizz and every time we did gvg we would always go from about top 12 to almost top 9. 

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I 100% AGREE WITH HIM!

 

Buff for auto attack and rework ricochet would make rogue FINALLY a little bit worth for the 2021 meta!

 

Actually 0 mc class Can make more or egal dmg than seeker, in mc we lose All gvg that have pve parts lol and maybe New forsaken class will get something like seeker but can someone explain me something:

 

Pala: have Shield skill

Mage: mage have Shield skill

Seeker: have Shield skill

Priest: have Shield skill

Templar: have Shield skill

BD : have Shield skill

Warden : have Shield skill

 

Mc side:

Necro

 

:pensative:

 

Nevermind we have others usefuls skills but its funny to see some differents like this ahah, mc need a char that equal the power of seeker ( dont charmer pls they need 1 minute to put All dogs and they Cant attack doors).

 

Rogue are skills/auto attack user so maybe rework Frenzy like :

 

delete the Crit and accuracy ( mermen gear and any others gears have it already alots).

 

And put some Strength/Lifesteal buff.

 

I dont really know but Frenzy skill even with 3846 buff it will stay useless ( sorry dev you cant be perfect everywhere :shy:)

 

THANKS TO CARE ABOUT THIS AHAH!

 

 

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6 hours ago, Angelxgod said:

I 100% AGREE WITH HIM!

 

Buff for auto attack and rework ricochet would make rogue FINALLY a little bit worth for the 2021 meta!

 

Actually 0 mc class Can make more or egal dmg than seeker, in mc we lose All gvg that have pve parts lol and maybe New forsaken class will get something like seeker but can someone explain me something:

 

Pala: have Shield skill

Mage: mage have Shield skill

Seeker: have Shield skill

Priest: have Shield skill

Templar: have Shield skill

BD : have Shield skill

Warden : have Shield skill

 

Mc side:

Necro

 

:pensative:

 

Nevermind we have others usefuls skills but its funny to see some differents like this ahah, mc need a char that equal the power of seeker ( dont charmer pls they need 1 minute to put All dogs and they Cant attack doors).

 

Rogue are skills/auto attack user so maybe rework Frenzy like :

 

delete the Crit and accuracy ( mermen gear and any others gears have it already alots).

 

And put some Strength/Lifesteal buff.

 

I dont really know but Frenzy skill even with 3846 buff it will stay useless ( sorry dev you cant be perfect everywhere :shy:)

 

THANKS TO CARE ABOUT THIS AHAH!

 

 

Nah we don't need a duplicate character. I want to see something different. Anyways, Rogues always been in the meta for dps. 

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