Warlock's POV: here some suggestions.

[WantFairGame 64]

@Dr StrangeI want to talk a bit about Warlock before the update comes.

1 ) Mana CAP Problem:
Absolutely 1 year ago, Warlocks got huge and unfair nerf of "Mana cap", which mainly was about limiting the damage increase from the maximum mana a character has. It is nearly 300~ for PvP and 500~ PvE. As I have shown the characteristics of some of the classes from Mountain Clans, especially in terms of PvP, with the addition of new "Bracelets", Warlocks has been weakened so much that they can't deal some serious damage to their enemies even if they are fully damage branch talented.

 

For instance, the other classes down there can hit 3k+ to enemies with the strongest skill of they got. However, it is not valid for a Warlock to hit more than 2k~ to a maxed enemy anymore. With the new damage boosts of all DPS characters, a ranger/hunter can get to 4k damage from an instant damage skill and which applies a debuff.

I may get some answers such as "Warlock is a great group enemy controller class, you can't deny that.", indeed it is, but in the top level of fighting, it is seen as a joke... Because most top level players are aware of and has 30%+ base resistance parameters with a great instants damages. Therefore, either warlocks should rely on the other 7/10 stunning chance and to kill a strong player warlock generally needs to make a 1.5-2 combo which means 6-7 stun skills used. (7/10)^6 = 0.11. So, either rely on 11% chance to kill an enemy after spamming numerous stuns, or get killed by 2-3 instant huge dmg skills. 

 

2) Fear Skill Problem

 I really want to know what is the reason of a control skill being 3 yards while all of them are generally 5 yards. The skill I am talking about is "Fear".

It looks quite funny and useless. Imagine you are fighting against any class and you are planning to stun him at first and use "Dark Circle" skill, but sadly it got "Resisted", so to not let it to hit you, the first alternative is to use fear and start your combo. (We generally must use stuns because as I have said in the 1) section, almost all damage classes which are either shown as having lower dmg characteristics, they hit much higher and much harder. ) Back to our topic, till you get 3 yard closer to an enemy already, it can spam all the skills on you and you will be dead already.

 

3) The Lack of Defensive Skills or Relics

Through the years, rogues/hunters/rangers has earned some defensive abilities like "Dodge" to increase their survivability. I won't mention how tanks/healers got defensive skills to survive in a battle. Even mages, besides their shields they earned a little healing combo-skill. 

However, when we come into warlocks, there isn't either useful or passive defensive skills to work during combat. 

A.) What we got is a stone skill... A skill that disables the character to atk an enemy, and after going out, literally vulnerable of anything coming next.

B.) Haven't finished yet, another skill which is also nerfed and it brings more burden than it helps in a battle cause it only works when you "Deal" damage. 

C.) A "defensive" skill that can be "Resisted" and works just a little bit within few conditions managed.

 

4-) Conclusion

Warlocks have lost their popularity and effectiveness since the huge nerfs on them in the past year and afterwards. 

> When it comes to damage, it doesn't deal sufficient damage to scare his enemy and not persist on him to "think" to counter, while other DPS classes hits really high with their "ulti" skills.

> When it comes to support/control, it has not much difference from many other classes anymore as an advantage. Most classes has aoe stun/silence skills.
> When it comes to Survivability, there is not much passive skills that can help or defensive relics to be actived to increase a Warlock's capability of staying alive and pursue fighting.

 

Maybe @Horimiyamigth want to add something about these, but I doubt if he is interested in mass figths and PvP, rather than PvE :')

Thanks

[Higgings 1824]

@WantFairGame

 

Here. Enjoy! 

[Horimiya 1939]

Three consecutive updates have nerfed the Warlock class. While the limitations on energy for damage increases and the magical protection on bracers are understandable, the reduction of Shadow Sphere damage from 200% to 185% is excessive. This is especially true considering that this damage was not the best and required a significant amount of energy from the class to use.

The first talent tree... +12 energy is a real mockery of all Warlocks. While other classes received valuable talents that significantly strengthened them, the Warlock received 24 energy in PvE (Fury is mandatory in the body, so 1/3 of the talent is already useless). 24 energy is less than one energy crystal gives at level 32-34, it's just ridiculous. Why did other classes receive solid damage talents that are equivalent to a real strong buff, while the Warlock only received an Energy Crystal?

Why is the talent for the puddle unusable in PvP? 300 energy is the pre-reduction cap in the arena. At 300 mana, the puddle hits less than the puddle without the talent. Thank you that I can now at least disable the talent.

Edited March 12 by Horimiya

[vavavi 240]

Idk about locks being low damage. I still get hit 3k+ by the skills of properly built ones. Thats far higher single target burst than mages for example.

 

Besides, don't wlocks have some sort of damage reduction? I could be wrong, but seems convenient to just not mention it. Also isn't this talent made specifically to counter peoples resist?

Edited March 13 by vavavi

[fiss 5]

On 3/13/2024 at 6:57 AM, vavavi said:

Idk about locks being low damage. I still get hit 3k+ by the skills of properly built ones. Thats far higher single target burst than mages for example.

 

Besides, don't wlocks have some sort of damage reduction? I could be wrong, but seems convenient to just not mention it. Also isn't this talent made specifically to counter peoples resist?

It is useless for bd and mage. The functionality of mage is powerful, and damage is secondary. In addition, bd and ranger can kill warlocks in one second, and the shield of mage will not cause premature death of mage.

[WantFairGame 64]

On 3/13/2024 at 8:57 AM, vavavi said:

I still get hit 3k+ by the skills of properly built ones.

That is pure distorted and false information, there is only 1-2 good warlocks in EU server with books, one is Hades, and even he is not capable of hitting 3k on a maxed priest without using castle buff/pot/scrolls. Please have some experience before making comments.
And for second, I invite you to try that second branch, since there are bracelets now and dmg of warlock nerfed hugely, its impossible to play with that branch to be useful.

[vavavi 240]

On 3/14/2024 at 3:30 PM, WantFairGame said:

That is pure distorted and false information, there is only 1-2 good warlocks in EU server with books, one is Hades, and even he is not capable of hitting 3k on a maxed priest without using castle buff/pot/scrolls. Please have some experience before making comments.
And for second, I invite you to try that second branch, since there are bracelets now and dmg of warlock nerfed hugely, its impossible to play with that branch to be useful.

Obviously I'm talking with buffs. If you play the game without using buffs and actually having a properly built char no wonder it feels like you dont accomplish much against people who do have both of those things. Maybe you should consider getting the experience

[fiss 5]

7 hours ago, vavavi said:

Obviously I'm talking with buffs. If you play the game without using buffs and actually having a properly built char no wonder it feels like you dont accomplish much against people who do have both of those things. Maybe you should consider getting the experience having a properly built char no wonder it feels like you dont accomplish much against people who do have both of those things. Maybe you should consider getting the experience

Can it be said that the pastor's inability to kill mage or bd is also due to the pastor's lack of proper coordination？

[TheCaster 362]

On 3/11/2024 at 2:52 AM, WantFairGame said:

I really want to know what is the reason of a control skill being 3 yards while all of them are generally 5 yards.

I can see that you're a pvp warlock lol. You've pretty much summed most of what I had to say too. 1st stun matters to us a lot and honestly I have no idea why such a fragile class has 3 yards on this skills. All melee classes have more range than us lol. A BD rush has 5 yards range along with 2 yards for hamstring. Combined they will always catch you first. Meanwhile we flailing around with a 3 yard control skill.

 

 

On 3/11/2024 at 2:52 AM, WantFairGame said:

What we got is a stone skill.

Honestly, it's time to Enable movement in stone body. 

 

On 3/11/2024 at 2:52 AM, WantFairGame said:

A "defensive" skill that can be "Resisted" and works just a little bit within few conditions managed.

They really need to change something in the mechanics of this skill urgently. I'll post a video of it's working soon in arena. It's not at all practical.

 

On 3/11/2024 at 2:52 AM, WantFairGame said:

It is nearly 300~ for PvP and 500~ PvE.

Only option I see is to increase the scaling maybe?  Now it's every 5 mana = +1% dmg. So at 300 mana, +60% dmg up. Change to every 4 mana = 1.5% dmg up. 

Edited March 16 by TheCaster

[vavavi 240]

4 hours ago, fiss said:

Can it be said that the pastor's inability to kill mage or bd is also due to the pastor's lack of proper coordination？

Personally i find mages easy to kill on a priest while bladedancers not so much, but yes, that could also be because I'm not playing correctly against them.  It all changes situation to situation, theres so many variables that play into each encounter; player skill, gears, which class counters which, relics, resist procs etc.

 

As for warlocks, yes there are some classes that almost hard counter them, but theres also classes that get countered by locks too. It's how balance should work. If theres one class that rises above every other class then it's a balance issue, while if a class, in this case warlock, can't beat some classes, thats just the game working as intended. That's the way it should be for every class.

Edited March 16 by vavavi

[WantFairGame 64]

On 3/15/2024 at 7:59 PM, vavavi said:

Obviously I'm talking with buffs. If you play the game without using buffs and actually having a properly built char no wonder it feels like you dont accomplish much against people who do have both of those things. Maybe you should consider getting the experience

This is a topic created to say that Warlock is weaker than any dmg classes and the stun is useless, besides there is no defensive skill or relic for them. Simply we are being 2 shotted by BDs or Rangers.

With buff let's say you have reached to 3k dmg, then why don't you tell about other classes, they can reach to 5k dmg with buffs. This is not the main idea I am trying to tell, people who has warlock experience already aware of how vulnerable and uneffective they are.
 

 

On 3/16/2024 at 6:58 AM, TheCaster said:

I can see that you're a pvp warlock lol. You've pretty much summed most of what I had to say too. 1st stun matters to us a lot and honestly I have no idea why such a fragile class has 3 yards on this skills. All melee classes have more range than us lol. A BD rush has 5 yards range along with 2 yards for hamstring. Combined they will always catch you first. Meanwhile we flailing around with a 3 yard control skill.

Exactly, BD stunning me before I do when I try to use fear D: 

 

On 3/16/2024 at 6:58 AM, TheCaster said:

Honestly, it's time to Enable movement in stone body.

That is really something doable, just like templars can walk with their skills.

On 3/16/2024 at 6:58 AM, TheCaster said:

Only option I see is to increase the scaling maybe?  Now it's every 5 mana = +1% dmg. So at 300 mana, +60% dmg up. Change to every 4 mana = 1.5% dmg up. 

That is doable aswell, it will help Warlocks to get some amount of dmg atleast.

[vavavi 240]

21 hours ago, WantFairGame said:

This is a topic created to say that Warlock is weaker than any dmg classes and the stun is useless, besides there is no defensive skill or relic for them. Simply we are being 2 shotted by BDs or Rangers.

With buff let's say you have reached to 3k dmg, then why don't you tell about other classes, they can reach to 5k dmg with buffs. This is not the main idea I am trying to tell, people who has warlock experience already aware of how vulnerable and uneffective they are.
 

Bd and ranger just are very big counters to warlocks. The same way hunters/reapers kill elf casters easily. You're supposed to have classes that counter you.

 

Warlocks counter multiple classes heavily too; priests, paladins, templars, druids and alot of the time mages have no way to deal with warlocks. Is it fair to say that makes wlocks op?  Natural counters just exist to each class

[TheCaster 362]

12 minutes ago, vavavi said:

Warlocks counter multiple classes heavily too; priests,

It's the other way around lol. Priests heavily counter warlocks. 


Not to go off topic from the warlock. Priests disable warlocks just by existing....
For a class that's heavily reliant on stuns and debuff, getting them removed every 3 to 4s is the worst. One of the best passives in game.  Even the only survival skill we have is based on a debuff. Imagine I apply my debuff expecting to get at least some heals and poof, priest just keeps removing the debuff and that's all. Warlock is dead. 

I don't blame priests, The mechanics of warlock skill needs to change where it's survival is not dependent on the enemy. Or it's damage needs to be higher so that it can be an actual threat.

Edited March 17 by TheCaster

[vavavi 240]

29 minutes ago, TheCaster said:

It's the other way around lol. Priests heavily counter warlocks. 


Not to go off topic from the warlock. Priests disable warlocks just by existing....
For a class that's heavily reliant on stuns and debuff, getting them removed every 3 to 4s is the worst. One of the best passives in game.  Even the only survival skill we have is based on a debuff. Imagine I apply my debuff expecting to get at least some heals and poof, priest just keeps removing the debuff and that's all. Warlock is dead. 

I don't blame priests, The mechanics of warlock skill needs to change where it's survival is not dependent on the enemy. Or it's damage needs to be higher so that it can be an actual threat.

That talent is only useful in a 1v1 situation though, and even then it removes random bleeds and relics more often than actual stuns. Necro has a similiar one, but far stronger since he can avoid party taking the removals.

Also priests just do t have the dmg to kill a wlock, they heal too much as is. 

 

And once more, these are things that happen in 1v1 situations, whether a class is balanced or not shouldn't be judged from those. In arena/mass fights locks are still one of the best classes by far

[WantFairGame 64]

4 hours ago, vavavi said:

Bd and ranger just are very big counters to warlocks. The same way hunters/reapers kill elf casters easily. You're supposed to have classes that counter you.

 

Warlocks counter multiple classes heavily too; priests, paladins, templars, druids and alot of the time mages have no way to deal with warlocks. Is it fair to say that makes wlocks op?  Natural counters just exist to each class

I don't know what you live in ur brain yet it is not the discord chat area that you can talk nonsense, and who is asking for Warlock to be the best? LOL. Just go read the first text back, you are just here to complain like you always and everywhere do.

 

How a warlock can counter priest or druid, or templars, that's a big joke. You are clueless what you been talking.

2 hours ago, vavavi said:

Also priests just do t have the dmg to kill a wlock, they heal too much as is. 

Ayo what????????? You heal urself 1 tap to max, and complain about stone skill??? Bro what cannabis you are using?

 

4 hours ago, vavavi said:

Bd and ranger just are very big counters to warlocks.

It is not just counters, they just 2 shot warlocks. BDs can kill a caster with their 0.5 combo, not even 1 !!!!
 

Now you happy with what you done? You have spoiled in my page with your limitless complainments.

Edited March 17 by WantFairGame

[vavavi 240]

2 hours ago, WantFairGame said:

I don't know what you live in ur brain yet it is not the discord chat area that you can talk nonsense, and who is asking for Warlock to be the best? LOL. Just go read the first text back, you are just here to complain like you always and everywhere do.

It's not nonsense though. Damagers kill every caster fast, this isn't something unique to warlocks. Cloth users aren't meant to tank.

 

2 hours ago, WantFairGame said:

How a warlock can counter priest or druid, or templars, that's a big joke. You are clueless what you been talking.

Ayo what????????? You heal urself 1 tap to max, and complain about stone skill??? Bro what cannabis you are using?

Pretty easily actually. Warlocks do high dmg with alot of cc at their disposal. Also any lower dmg class will struggle to kill them through their damage reduction and heals.

 

Also I wasn't complaining, just pointed out the fact that locks heal too much for priests to be able to deal with them. If you somehow survive the stuns to even try to kill them in the first place.

2 hours ago, WantFairGame said:

It is not just counters, they just 2 shot warlocks. BDs can kill a caster with their 0.5 combo, not even 1 !!!!

 

Now you happy with what you done? You have spoiled in my page with your limitless complainments.

That is just what damagers do. Just because bladedancers dmg is through the roof currently and should be toned down, doesn't mean that other damagers aren't capable of doing the same thing to cloth users. Barbs, hunters, rangers, seekers, rogues all dispatch of most cloth users easily, that's what they're meant to do. While cloth users, such as warlocks, aren't meant to tank these classes.

 

Also it's the forum, everyones allowed to discuss and chime into topics, me included. That doesn't change just because someone has an opinion that's different from yours.

Edited March 17 by vavavi

[WantFairGame 64]

2 hours ago, vavavi said:

It's not nonsense though. Damagers kill every caster fast, this isn't something unique to warlocks. Cloth users aren't meant to tank.

 

Pretty easily actually. Warlocks do high dmg with alot of cc at their disposal. Also any lower dmg class will struggle to kill them through their damage reduction and heals.

 

Also I wasn't complaining, just pointed out the fact that locks heal too much for priests to be able to deal with them. If you somehow survive the stuns to even try to kill them in the first place.

That is just what damagers do. Just because bladedancers dmg is through the roof currently and should be toned down, doesn't mean that other damagers aren't capable of doing the same thing to cloth users. Barbs, hunters, rangers, seekers, rogues all dispatch of most cloth users easily, that's what they're meant to do. While cloth users, such as warlocks, aren't meant to tank these classes.

 

Also it's the forum, everyones allowed to discuss and chime into topics, me included. That doesn't change just because someone has an opinion that's different from yours.

I'm not gonna discuss further with someone who has 0 clue about the game and reality. The guy who has never played warlock talks about it and says "free to talk", funny.

[fiss 5]

9 hours ago, vavavi said:

It's not nonsense though. Damagers kill every caster fast, this isn't something unique to warlocks. Cloth users aren't meant to tank.

 

Pretty easily actually. Warlocks do high dmg with alot of cc at their disposal. Also any lower dmg class will struggle to kill them through their damage reduction and heals.

 

Also I wasn't complaining, just pointed out the fact that locks heal too much for priests to be able to deal with them. If you somehow survive the stuns to even try to kill them in the first place.

That is just what damagers do. Just because bladedancers dmg is through the roof currently and should be toned down, doesn't mean that other damagers aren't capable of doing the same thing to cloth users. Barbs, hunters, rangers, seekers, rogues all dispatch of most cloth users easily, that's what they're meant to do. While cloth users, such as warlocks, aren't meant to tank these classes.

 

Also it's the forum, everyones allowed to discuss and chime into topics, me included. That doesn't change just because someone has an opinion that's different from yours.

My suggestion is to personally experience Warlock in the arena. At this point, you will understand how difficult Warlock is

[Laevateinn 73]

Simply reduce the resist stat. For example, reduce all resistance stat, buffs in half except for the 100% resistance buff in the game. The game is ruined with excessively high resistance.

At Arena, I can say that at least half of my skills are resisted(learned 75k talent). Defense skill is included in that.

[vavavi 240]

14 hours ago, WantFairGame said:

I'm not gonna discuss further with someone who has 0 clue about the game and reality. The guy who has never played warlock talks about it and says "free to talk", funny.

It is a place for discussion though. Instead of you saying anything related to the topic you just decided to start insulting. Wasn't surprising, but still . Playing against them is equally valid experience of the class. If balance discussions only happened between the players of the class in question nothing sensible would ever come out of it. 

 

7 hours ago, fiss said:

My suggestion is to personally experience Warlock in the arena. At this point, you will understand how difficult Warlock is

Yea well thats the thing, I've experienced playing against them, while you have experienced playing as one. These are 2 equally valid view points. And from my experience they are very difficult to deal with when played right and can win an arena fight with one well placed circle/silence zone. 

[Higgings 1824]

On 3/17/2024 at 12:48 PM, WantFairGame said:

Ayo what????????? You heal urself 1 tap to max, and complain about stone skill??? Bro what cannabis you are using?

 

My boy, refrain from using these kind of sentence please. Let's learn from both points of view rather than insulting each other, shall we? After all, this was the very purpose of this topic's creation. 

[fiss 5]

6 minutes ago, Higgings said:

 

My boy, refrain from using these kind of sentence please. Let's learn from both points of view rather than insulting each other, shall we? After all, this was the very purpose of this topic's creation. 

Warlock's performance in the arena has made every player of Warlock very irritable, and I have been enduring it all along

[Higgings 1824]

4 minutes ago, fiss said:

Warlock's performance in the arena has made every player of Warlock very irritable, and I have been enduring it all along

 

Understandable, yet the forum is not a free place where people just unleash their frustrations; we have got rules 

[WantFairGame 64]

2 hours ago, Higgings said:

 

My boy, refrain from using these kind of sentence please. Let's learn from both points of view rather than insulting each other, shall we? After all, this was the very purpose of this topic's creation. 

Gotcha, but you should also consider that his words are in purpose, just spoiling the topic and take the nice level of discussion into his imaginary world. He doesn't even play Warlock, just here to complain and complain over and over again like he does in discord. I won't be answering to him anyway anymore, waste of words.

[fiss 5]

Warlock itself is not a big problem, it is just a continuous version weakening and extreme control of Warlock, without the ability of team assistance and increased defense. Nowadays, characters have extremely high magic defense and many resistance attributes. Therefore, sorcerers are becoming weaker and weaker. This is my personal opinion

[TheCaster 362]

On 3/17/2024 at 6:34 PM, vavavi said:

Also I wasn't complaining, just pointed out the fact that locks heal too much for priests to be able to deal with them.

Warlocks can't heal if a priest is in party. Their debuff gets removed every 3.5s~ and skill cd is 14s~. That's assuming the skill isn't resisted smh. Imagine cancelling a class just by existing.....

 

Lock needs skills that are not reliant on enemy resist. 

 

 

On 3/18/2024 at 4:25 AM, fiss said:

My suggestion is to personally experience Warlock in the arena. At this point, you will understand how difficult Warlock is

It's not a good time to be a warlock. Something needs to change. Damage or defensive skills.

[vavavi 240]

22 hours ago, TheCaster said:

Warlocks can't heal if a priest is in party. Their debuff gets removed every 3.5s~ and skill cd is 14s~. That's assuming the skill isn't resisted smh. Imagine cancelling a class just by existing.....

 

Lock needs skills that are not reliant on enemy resist. 

Priests cleanse talent, if in party, can be used up by the other party members on any random sap, bleed or slow. Would prefer it worked the same way as necros does where it's only focused on one person you choose, but thats for a different topic.

 

Besides, warlocks aren't the only class that suffer from people resisting, thats basically every class. They actually are the only class that has the tools to avoid those resists. Other classes don't have a -35% resist talent you know? Locks are fortunate in that sense.

[Lyzoic 101]

On 3/18/2024 at 9:43 AM, vavavi said:

Yea well thats the thing, I've experienced playing against them, while you have experienced playing as one. These are 2 equally valid view points. And from my experience they are very difficult to deal with when played right and can win an arena fight with one well placed circle/silence zone. 

not really same, my friend has mustang so I prolly know how it behave, no not really, warlock is not "auto target" class at its most skills unlike on other classes which requires really not just skills but also luck and time to react+click +choose to put skills on proper places, while many other classes can just react and click, I am pretty sure priest has no such skills to worry about, maybe missing to buff but click alt and you got no trouble even there.

 

3 hours ago, vavavi said:

Besides, warlocks aren't the only class that suffer from people resisting, thats basically every class. They actually are the only class that has the tools to avoid those resists. Other classes don't have a -35% resist talent you know? Locks are fortunate in that sense.

warlock path is either to be good at damage and some stuns, or aim on stuns and silences but cant really max out both on any scenario. But they're the only good thing they have, when you ask for protection? There is no ANY actual defensive buff-skill on warlock which makes it only be good at being potato target, ok, we can maybe say there is life exhaust combined with grimoire, but hey, who has enough skill points for max these 2 skills and arrow and sphere, I guess none. Now people having 80% resist with buffs can just laugh off on warlock stuns them being either resisted with that ~2/3 chance, you can ask yourself, what if your every 3rd heal skill only worked, would that be skill still?

[vavavi 240]

6 hours ago, Lyzoic said:

not really same, my friend has mustang so I prolly know how it behave, no not really, warlock is not "auto target" class at its most skills unlike on other classes which requires really not just skills but also luck and time to react+click +choose to put skills on proper places, while many other classes can just react and click, I am pretty sure priest has no such skills to worry about, maybe missing to buff but click alt and you got no trouble even there.

Oh come on, if you genuinely cant aim a 3x3 stun with a talent that even gives you a chance to extend that range, thats a issue on the players part, not the class. It really isn't that difficult.

And yea it isn't the same thing, but both points of view are equally as important. If you only ever asked the users of one class if its balanced they would always just ask for it to be buffed. Both perspectives are required.

6 hours ago, Lyzoic said:

Warlock path is either to be good at damage and some stuns, or aim on stuns and silences but cant really max out both on any scenario. But they're the only good thing they have, when you ask for protection? There is no ANY actual defensive buff-skill on warlock which makes it only be good at being potato target, ok, we can maybe say there is life exhaust combined with grimoire, but hey, who has enough skill points for max these 2 skills and arrow and sphere, I guess none. Now people having 80% resist with buffs can just laugh off on warlock stuns them being either resisted with that ~2/3 chance, you can ask yourself, what if your every 3rd heal skill only worked, would that be skill still?

You have passive dmg reduction from power of relaxation talent, that doesn't count as defensive? Also skills that boost your heals, and stone? You're exaggerating alot.

 

You have a class that can become the highest single target magic damager, or a class with best crowd control in the game. You think just because you cant have both at the same time it makes the class weak? That's crazy, you're not supposed to have everything at once.

6 hours ago, Lyzoic said:

Now people having 80% resist with buffs can just laugh off on warlock stuns them being either resisted with that ~2/3 chance, you can ask yourself, what if your every 3rd heal skill only worked, would that be skill still?

You talk like no other class relys on their stuns and debuffs to be viable, like it's just a warlock problem. Templars, druids, priests, palas, reapers, rogues, hunters, charmers etc etc all suffer from people having high resist. This isn't some class specific thing. Locks just happen to be the only class that has actual tools to counter it. 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 21 by vavavi

[fiss 5]

2 hours ago, vavavi said:

Oh come on, if you genuinely cant aim a 3x3 stun with a talent that even gives you a chance to extend that range, thats a issue on the players part, not the class. It really isn't that difficult.

And yea it isn't the same thing, but point views are equally as important. If you only ever asked the users of one class if its balanced they would always just ask for it to be buffed. Both perspectives are required.

You have passive dmg reduction from power of relaxation talent, that doesn't count as defensive? Also skills that boost your heals, and stone? You're exaggerating alot.

 

You have a class that can become the highest single target magic damager, or a class with best crowd control in the game. You think just because you cant have both at the same time it makes the class weak? That's crazy, you're not supposed to have everything at once.

You talk like no other class relys on their stuns and debuffs to be viable, like it's just a warlock problem. Templars, druids, priests, palas, reapers, rogues, hunters, charmers etc etc all suffer from people having high resist. This isn't some class specific thing. Locks just happen to be the only class that has actual tools to counter it. 

 

 

 

 

Warlocks do not have any skills that increase physical and magical defense, so they take more damage than other professions. Reducing damage by 20% requires energy, and this proportion is not as high as other professions. This is the worst injury reduction

[vavavi 240]

2 hours ago, fiss said:

Warlocks do not have any skills that increase physical and magical defense, so they take more damage than other professions. Reducing damage by 20% requires energy, and this proportion is not as high as other professions. This is the worst injury reduction

Thats true, they don't have a skill like mages sun armor. But in my opinion they honestly don't need it. The impact the class can have in fights of any size (except like 1v1/2v2s where it isn't the best) is massive. A class with such high impact, that can be applied from a safe range, shouldn't also be a tank.

[Lyzoic 101]

6 hours ago, vavavi said:

Oh come on, if you genuinely cant aim a 3x3 stun with a talent that even gives you a chance to extend that range, thats a issue on the players part, not the class. It really isn't that difficult.

As it been million times pointed out, no other class can know without trying on action. For example on 1v1 using fear and circle, there is pretty high chances to not able to "aim" the target due its randomness to throw enemy anywhere, and no, there is no automatic aiming guns on warlock,not on weakness zone, pool, circle, fear, none, I am sorry to disappoint you.

6 hours ago, vavavi said:

And yea it isn't the same thing, but both points of view are equally as important. If you only ever asked the users of one class if its balanced they would always just ask for it to be buffed. Both perspectives are required.

Hmm true, I have flashbacks about few books such as distortion and octopus book, but let's maybe not go to back there. There are 2 ways of both perspectives can be claimed of, either for reason or with no valid reason and that is the big difference, and I bet these who play the classes daily know what it requires in order to "hit" you 3k (I do think you're talking about you being unbuffed while they're buffed). I seem it pretty absurb to say it be alot compared to the damage of blade dancers and seekers making on their 70% speed autos and damaging skills, but I am pretty sure you're aware of these 2.2k auto-hits on 70% speed against 60% resilience, right? Because 90% of comments there are people commenting who cant see beyond their own nose, which makes the viewers perspectives always questionable. "Why shamans healing totem can crit" while" it cant"- was my favorite last year while bm already had crit on their group heal already, besides that, my second favorite was when all on your team said it is fair to use mage shattered stone, well we both know what happened on these makes me question now every thought from team 2.

6 hours ago, vavavi said:

You have a class that can become the highest single target magic damager, or a class with best crowd control in the game.

I dont think these 2 skills have ultimate cooldown, shall be nothing to worry about unless you're worried about the autoattacks as well. And about crowd control, I think you meant templar, as they get so popular on wars even being scripted (for real, vink-vink) 

6 hours ago, vavavi said:

You have passive dmg reduction from power of relaxation talent, that doesn't count as defensive? Also skills that boost your heals, and stone? You're exaggerating alot.

Please, you're again saying like they have thousands of skill points to use and every talent of 3 at same time. I dont even use damage reduction talent as I like hex way more. 

 

6 hours ago, vavavi said:

You think just because you cant have both at the same time it makes the class weak? That's crazy, you're not supposed to have everything at once.

I dont think I ever said it is weak class, nor that it should have everything at once as it was whole my point what you didn't understand, lock is just same as other class, it can't have it all. So it goes as well on you that you can't say it is too good damage dealer and too good stunner/silencer at once.

 

6 hours ago, vavavi said:

You talk like no other class relys on their stuns and debuffs to be viable, like it's just a warlock problem. Templars, druids, priests, palas, reapers, rogues, hunters, charmers etc etc all suffer from people having high resist. This isn't some class specific thing. Locks just happen to be the only class that has actual tools to counter it.

Well obviously because warlock is only class with no real buffing defence skill, not even a dodge,no, even bladedancer had to get heal skill, I found it very ironical as it used to be joke before it happened for real

 

1 hour ago, vavavi said:

Thats true, they don't have a skill like mages sun armor. But in my opinion they honestly don't need it. The impact the class can have in fights of any size (except like 1v1/2v2s where it isn't the best) is massive. A class with such high impact, that can be applied from a safe range, shouldn't also be a tank.

so shall we think of mages the same way? High damage, resist skill, can be played from safe range, and after all his damage skills applied he is able to teleport away on skill, yet it has shield? That "impact" on being offensive is higher on mages than the warlocks.

Edited March 21 by Lyzoic

[Lyzoic 101]

in nutshell, yeah, warlock not always been fair if remembering that they oneshot from full hp with the mana update (sadly I wasn't playing, I missed great fun), however, it being nerfed by half already considering recent nerfs I don't understand at giving a small cookie talent to warlock with mana that is equaling to less than one crystal

[TheCaster 362]

12 hours ago, vavavi said:

They actually are the only class that has the tools to avoid those resists. Other classes don't have a -35% resist talent you know? Locks are fortunate in that sense.

Other classes have something to bank on when their skills are resisted. For us, it's all or nothing. 35% resist is only reliable until a reasonable amount of resist. If your resist crosses over 55 ~60% in my personal opinion, even with the 35% talent, It's pretty much game over for a warlock. And it is so so easy to gather that much resist in the current meta. I pity any warlock who play any other branch than mid rn smh.

Just get us a passive or a buff skill that is not cancelled out by enemy resist / control removal and whatnot. Bloody tribute is a pain in the ass to manage even as an octo warlock myself. I wonder how normal locks even use it!
 

[vavavi 240]

4 hours ago, Lyzoic said:

As it been million times pointed out, no other class can know without trying on action. For example on 1v1 using fear and circle, there is pretty high chances to not able to "aim" the target due its randomness to throw enemy anywhere, and no, there is no automatic aiming guns on warlock,not on weakness zone, pool, circle, fear, none, I am sorry to disappoint you.

There really isn't some high chance. Not missing circles, or any other "on the floor" - type aoe is not that difficult. Never has been, never will be. 

 

4 hours ago, Lyzoic said:

Hmm true, I have flashbacks about few books such as distortion and octopus book, but let's maybe not go to back there. There are 2 ways of both perspectives can be claimed of, either for reason or with no valid reason and that is the big difference, and I bet these who play the classes daily know what it requires in order to "hit" you 3k (I do think you're talking about you being unbuffed while they're buffed). I seem it pretty absurb to say it be alot compared to the damage of blade dancers and seekers making on their 70% speed autos and damaging skills, but I am pretty sure you're aware of these 2.2k auto-hits on 70% speed against 60% resilience, right? Because 90% of comments there are people commenting who cant see beyond their own nose, which makes the viewers perspectives always questionable. "Why shamans healing totem can crit" while" it cant"- was my favorite last year while bm already had crit on their group heal already, besides that, my second favorite was when all on your team said it is fair to use mage shattered stone, well we both know what happened on these makes me question now every thought from team 2.

I dont think these 2 skills have ultimate cooldown, shall be nothing to worry about unless you're worried about the autoattacks as well. And about crowd control, I think you meant templar, as they get so popular on wars even being scripted (for real, vink-vink) 

Please, you're again saying like they have thousands of skill points to use and every talent of 3 at same time. I dont even use damage reduction talent as I like hex way more. 

.

You shouldn't be comparing locks dmg to dedicated damagers. Bds, seekeers, rogues, reapers and whatever else are in a comoletely different category. A cc focused class using them as a comparison point for their damage is just simply looking at it wrong. Compared to their closest counterpart, mage, locks do far more single target damage.

 

Also, once more, doesn't sound like its an issue of not having defensive utility. It's you choosing to not sacrifice any offensive capabilities to use it. The tools are there, you're just not using them. You think defensive skills like mages barrier or sun armor come free with no skill points used?

5 hours ago, Lyzoic said:

Well obviously because warlock is only class with no real buffing defence skill, not even a dodge,no, even bladedancer had to get heal skill, I found it very ironical as it used to be joke before it happened for real

 

so shall we think of mages the same way? High damage, resist skill, can be played from safe range, and after all his damage skills applied he is able to teleport away on skill, yet it has shield? That "impact" on being offensive is higher on mages than the warlocks.

You have heals instead of skills like a dodge buff? And once again, there is a passive dmg reduction available, but according to your own words, you're just choosing to not use it. 

 

A mage can't be played from a safe range though, what are you talking about? Their single target dmg isn't that great, and even to do that to an effective level, you need to get within melee range to use your skills. These defensive buffs are required when your range is taken away.

If warlocks could only cast circle and silence zone underneath themselves, would agree that they need a def buff aswell.

3 hours ago, TheCaster said:

Other classes have something to bank on when their skills are resisted. For us, it's all or nothing. 35% resist is only reliable until a reasonable amount of resist. If your resist crosses over 55 ~60% in my personal opinion, even with the 35% talent, It's pretty much game over for a warlock. And it is so so easy to gather that much resist in the current meta. I pity any warlock who play any other branch than mid rn smh.

Just get us a passive or a buff skill that is not cancelled out by enemy resist / control removal and whatnot. Bloody tribute is a pain in the ass to manage even as an octo warlock myself. I wonder how normal locks even use it!
 

It's only "over' against damagers that resist. Same goes for basically every caster, if your stuns are resisted at a bad time by a high damage class, you just die. This isn't a lock specific thing. Besides, you have a passive dmg reduction in the form of a talent, that can't be cancelled by resists. On top of having a panic button in stone.

 

Even if such a defensive skill would be added, it would require an investment of skill points. Which would cause you to lose out in offensive capabilities. And judging from what I've read from other people in this thread, having to sacrifice any skill points or offensive utility to use your defensive tools is a big nono.

 

So I guess you want locks to get yet another defensive utility buff, but it has to be completely free of skill points/changing any offensive utility? Crazy.

[Lyzoic 101]

On 3/22/2024 at 12:59 AM, vavavi said:

Compared to their closest counterpart, mage, locks do far more single target damage.

tell me about it, mages can do -2k burst to 3 classes around him, while lock has 2 single target skills making maximum 3 to 4k dmg, should show great example "comparing" the close counterparts at its fairness. 

 

On 3/22/2024 at 12:59 AM, vavavi said:

Also, once more, doesn't sound like its an issue of not having defensive utility. It's you choosing to not sacrifice any offensive capabilities to use it. The tools are there, you're just not using them.

 

On 3/22/2024 at 12:59 AM, vavavi said:

You have heals instead of skills like a dodge buff? And once again, there is a passive dmg reduction available, but according to your own words, you're just choosing to not use it. 

Seems like you have issues at understanding how healing in 2 secs help any class if it dies in 1 second

 

On 3/22/2024 at 12:59 AM, vavavi said:

A mage can't be played from a safe range though, what are you talking about?

oh? Resist>jump on crowd>use aoe skills>jump out of crowd, I guess it is pretty safe job, as I have done it by myself.

[Theweasel 161]

On 3/17/2024 at 9:34 AM, vavavi said:

It's not nonsense though. Damagers kill every caster fast, this isn't something unique to warlocks. Cloth users aren't meant to tank.

This is pretty hypocritical coming from someone who keeps complaining about rogues on dc that  keep Deleting his cloth user character 

[vavavi 240]

21 hours ago, Lyzoic said:

tell me about it, mages can do -2k burst to 3 classes around him, while lock has 2 single target skills making maximum 3 to 4k dmg, should show great example "comparing" the close counterparts at its fairness. 

 

 

Seems like you have issues at understanding how healing in 2 secs help any class if it dies in 1 second

 

oh? Resist>jump on crowd>use aoe skills>jump out of crowd, I guess it is pretty safe job, as I have done it by myself.

I said single target for a reason. Also resisting and jumping in isn't that viable. Resist is only 6 secs, barely enough time to get another jump ready. And even if you do manage that, you still have to go close, locks don't. They can just use their stuns from miles away without ever having to step into the fight. Hence having far less need for defensive capabilities, they are supposed to be at their weakest when caught.

14 hours ago, Theweasel said:

This is pretty hypocritical coming from someone who keeps complaining about rogues on dc that  keep Deleting his cloth user character 

I didn't complain about rogues. I was saying they aren't as bad as everyone kept saying while using clips of being deleted to back that up. Theres a pretty clear difference between saying something isn't bad and saying something is overpowered.

[TheCaster 362]

On 3/22/2024 at 2:59 AM, vavavi said:

Even if such a defensive skill would be added, it would require an investment of skill points. Which would cause you to lose out in offensive capabilities.

Hey! Fine by me. That's the whole part that makes this balanced kind of. Even as it stands now, you can't be a full damage warlock without sacrificing stuns and vice versa.

 

With a passive defensive skill and increased offensive capabilities, you acn either be a support controller who's harder to kill or you can be a damager without control who's harder to kill. Either way is fine. Limited by skill points but the option should be available to warlocks.

[Lyzoic 101]

On 3/24/2024 at 9:03 AM, vavavi said:

Resist is only 6 secs, barely enough time to get another jump ready. And even if you do manage that, you still have to go close, locks don't.

These 6 secs shall be enough for get good troubles, as well there is no 10 magic yards between the fights on warlock against enemy, the yards of lock being useful and mage able to jump on locks on resist is same