Idea for fix templar bubble

[Yomo 35]

 

Like you can see on the video places 2 templar bubbles, resulting in an infinite loop. So i think if 1 templar stun push you to another templar stun it shouldnt work.. i mean if one player got stun from a templar he should keep stunned from same templar and ignore other templar stuns till the first templar stun ends.

Also its just 2 imagine 20 templar put stun on group fights... Elves will say get resist etc. even i got 50% resist still i got pernament stun

@Nolan @LeeLoo @snorlax @Holmes @Dr Strange

[Zurp 462]

Warlock circle shouldnt stun either if used on top of another circle.

[Wuuzurd 15]

This "problem" ur having almost never happens in a real game scenarion since u have to place 2 flows basicly perfectly and in sync with another templar. If you get hit by this ur either afk or just not moving.

 

It is easily avoidable and very predictable since the other templar HAS to walk into melee range to make this happen.

[Yomo 35]

14 minutes ago, Zurp said:

Warlock circle shouldnt stun either if used on top of another circle.

Warlock is balanced circle only stun 9 people only while templar stun 30 people  

[Wuuzurd 15]

2 minutes ago, Yomo said:

Warlock is balanced circle only stun 9 people only while templar stun 30 people  

 

Templars stun and warlocks circle has the exact same target limit. 

[Overhoul 52]

7 hours ago, Wuuzurd said:

 

Templars stun and warlocks circle has the exact same target limit. 

Now that I think about it, basically templar can stun more than 6/9 people(with relic) because it can cycle stun every 1.3s . If many enemies coming to templar then every 1.3s, 6/9 people with get stunned and after 1.3s, new 6/9 player will get stunned again. Since templar can push enemy back, 6/9 players will get stunned every 1.3s so, theoretically, in the 6.5 sec duration of reverse flow, because 1.3×5=6.5, then 5×6/5×9=30/45 number of enemies will get stunned during reverse flow rotation if the first, second and third enemies that get stunned didn't come back into the reverse flow bubble. Meanwhile, warlock can only stun once because no stun cycle + no push back. So yeah, theoretically, 1 templar can stun 30/45 amount enemy players.

Edited July 25, 2023 by Overhoul

[Wuuzurd 15]

35 minutes ago, Overhoul said:

theoretically, 1 templar can stun 30/45 amount enemy players.

 

Its true that it can, but in a real game situation it will never happen + with the new talent that most templars will go for it cant pull in new people past the 6/9 person limit since it seems to prior on the first people it hits.

[Raislin 337]

Same old same old, Warlock perma is fine but Templar is the problem as per usual. 

[Theweasel 161]

5 hours ago, Wuuzurd said:

 

Its true that it can, but in a real game situation it will never happen + with the new talent that most templars will go for it cant pull in new people past the 6/9 person limit since it seems to prior on the first people it hits.

Idk if im wrong but even new talent keep the stun cycle, but pulling ppl inside vortex, so yes, it keeps stunning many ppl 

Specifically 6 ppl every 1.3 seconds

 

 

3 hours ago, Raislin said:

Same old same old, Warlock perma is fine but Templar is the problem as per usual. 

I do not blame you, if I had an advantage as great as that, I would also defend my class,  Even if there was enough evidence against him

 

7 hours ago, Wuuzurd said:

This "problem" ur having almost never happens in a real game scenarion since u have to place 2 flows basicly perfectly and in sync with another templar. If you get hit by this ur either afk or just not moving.

 

It is easily avoidable and very predictable since the other templar HAS to walk into melee range to make this happen.

Believe it or not, it happens very often,i mean , the kicking area of the vortex it is very random, at least  3/5 of kicking effects in 6.5 sec, kicks you to another vortex over and over again, It's then "pinball" effect kicks in. 

 

Contrary to the normal effect, talent is no less effective, basically keeps you tied to the same spot  with no possibility of escaping of the 5 effects. (except if you are someone with Anticc skill)

 

Even the stun time lasts a bit more than triggering time of the vortex, this is  a unavoidable full stun of 6.5 sec (6.8 sec if vortex time talent alrdy learned) 

Now lets put this thing work together with other normal /talent  vortex  

 

 

 

 

Edited July 25, 2023 by Ryohei

[Wuuzurd 15]

15 minutes ago, Ryohei said:

Even the stun time lasts a bit more than triggering time of the vortex, this is  a unavoidable full stun of 6.5 sec (6.8 sec if vortex time talent alrdy learned) 

 

In endgame mass fights atleast half of flows hits are resisted on placement and people resist even more after the first few pulses, u gotta keep in mind that this game is balanced around mass fights and gvgs and not 1v1 2v2.

Templars entire kits power is placed on flow, without it they are fully useless. Comparing this to something like warlock that has multiple cc options outside of circle is pretty stupid imo. I wouldnt mind templars flow getting nerfed if the class had something else to fall back on, but it doesnt.

 

It should be either nerf flow and buff templars other cc options or leave the class as is.

[Lyzoic 101]

23 hours ago, Raislin said:

Same old same old, Warlock perma is fine but Templar is the problem as per usual. 

Good one, circle got nerfed long time ago having dublicated cooldown, now it's just 2 templars who cabable to "perma" bubble, 2 locks cd not even enough that bruh

 

On 7/25/2023 at 2:00 PM, Wuuzurd said:

 

Its true that it can, but in a real game situation it will never happen + with the new talent that most templars will go for it cant pull in new people past the 6/9 person limit since it seems to prior on the first people it hits.

templar played detected, ofc not need nerf

 

19 hours ago, Ryohei said:

I do not blame you, if I had an advantage as great as that, I would also defend my class,  Even if there was enough evidence against him

Nice you already know my friends on here so well, wont bother to ask why their guild 50% of mages

[Theweasel 161]

10 hours ago, Lyzoic said:

Nice you already know my friends on here so well, wont bother to ask why their guild 50% of mages

Most of them  says  that templars are a shitty class in a trying to defend it, but for a weird reason they keep recruiting xD

On 7/25/2023 at 11:28 AM, Wuuzurd said:

 

In endgame mass fights atleast half of flows hits are resisted on placement and people resist even more after the first few pulses, u gotta keep in mind that this game is balanced around mass fights and gvgs and not 1v1 2v2.

Templars entire kits power is placed on flow, without it they are fully useless. Comparing this to something like warlock that has multiple cc options outside of circle is pretty stupid imo. I wouldnt mind templars flow getting nerfed if the class had something else to fall back on, but it doesnt.

 

It should be either nerf flow and buff templars other cc options or leave the class as is.

Thats right, but keep in mind that all warlock cc stuns works x1 time and no x5 times like templar vortex. 

 

Failing a stun won't mean much to a templar (Adding the fact that they can wear heavy armor, and their vortex have x5 chances of working)

 but for any other class that depends on it, It's very, very bad.

 

 

[Raislin 337]

12 hours ago, Ryohei said:

Most of them  says  that templars are a shitty class in a trying to defend it, but for a weird reason they keep recruiting xD

Thats right, but keep in mind that all warlock cc stuns works x1 time and no x5 times like templar vortex. 

 

Failing a stun won't mean much to a templar (Adding the fact that they can wear heavy armor, and their vortex have x5 chances of working)

 but for any other class that depends on it, It's very, very bad.

 

For one its 7x. (With the talent.)

 

Templar's stun doesn't have 7 chances of working, it has 7 chances of FAILING. Unlike Warlocks who just need to land the first one to get the whole duration out of it. You can essentially think of it as people having 7x the chance of reducing the rest of the remaining duration of flow to 0, where as this isn't even a possibility vs Warlocks Dark Circle.

 

And we keep recruiting Templars because its the most viable aoe cc class we have available. Legion keeps recruiting Warlocks for the same job, how is this any different?

[Theweasel 161]

12 hours ago, Raislin said:

 

For one its 7x. (With the talent.)

 

Templar's stun doesn't have 7 chances of working, it has 7 chances of FAILING.

Basically the same, but Backwards  to sound Worse

12 hours ago, Raislin said:

 

Unlike Warlocks who just need to land the first one to get the whole duration out of it. You can essentially think of it as people having 7x the chance of reducing the rest of the remaining duration of flow to 0, where as this isn't even a possibility vs Warlocks Dark Circle.

With the current state of ws, warlock circle is just a paint in the ground with a chance of stun. 

Is good for running in lab tbh

 

Having many other cc  options doesnt makes it better if everyone easily resist all your cc, thats why most of warlocks going for dmg build

12 hours ago, Raislin said:

 

And we keep recruiting Templars because its the most viable aoe cc class we have available. Legion keeps recruiting Warlocks for the same job, how is this any different?

Yes, it's different

 

We recruit warlocks because it is the ONLY aoe cc class that legion has. 

 

While the other "attempts" of cc, 

have been Degraded to a "chance to working" or "damage cancels the effect"  When they only have a single skill of that type. 

 

-necros 

-hunters (nobody makes a hunter for cc anyway) 

And last but very irrelevant... 

-charmers

 

[Raislin 337]

8 hours ago, Ryohei said:

Basically the same, but Backwards  to sound Worse

With the current state of ws, warlock circle is just a paint in the ground with a chance of stun. 

Is good for running in lab tbh

 

How is this any different from flow, I don't understand. You walk in it and if you resist you don't get the effect same as circle. Are you this daft for real or you just trolling?

 

8 hours ago, Ryohei said:

We recruit warlocks because it is the ONLY aoe cc class that legion has. 

 

While the other "attempts" of cc, 

have been Degraded to a "chance to working" or "damage cancels the effect"  When they only have a single skill of that type. 

 

-necros 

-hunters (nobody makes a hunter for cc anyway) 

And last but very irrelevant... 

-charmers

You've just proceeded to mention 4 classes with aoe cc that you have in you guild anyway for gvg besides maybe charmers. Congratulations you played yourself.

Also you forgot shamans with perma silence on weakness totem. 

 

And if the players playing on those classes aren't levelling their aoe cc for gvg then you've got bigger issues to worry about it seems.

[Theweasel 161]

4 hours ago, Raislin said:

Also you forgot shamans with perma silence on weakness totem. 

XD???? 

 

5 hours ago, Raislin said:

 

How is this any different from flow, I don't understand. You walk in it and if you resist you don't get the effect same as circle. Are you this daft for real or you just trolling?

Jeez, while circle need being resisted 1 time to Disable  all the skill,, 

You need a insane luck to resist all five flow pulses, or simply a 100% resist skill  

OBVIOUSLY THEY'RE NOT THE SAME 

5 hours ago, Raislin said:

You've just proceeded to mention 4 classes with aoe cc that you have in you guild anyway for gvg besides maybe charmers. Congratulations you played yourself.

Yea WOW we have 4 powerful aoe cc classes  why tf im wasting my time here? 

We are more than self-sufficient 

5 hours ago, Raislin said:

And if the players playing on those classes aren't levelling their aoe cc for gvg then you've got bigger issues to worry about it seems.

Yea why not, lets waste some skill points on a skill with An efficiency of almost zero

[Raislin 337]

24 minutes ago, Ryohei said:

XD???? 

 

Jeez, while circle need being resisted 1 time to Disable  all the skill,, 

You need a insane luck to resist all five flow pulses, or simply a 100% resist skill  

OBVIOUSLY THEY'RE NOT THE SAME 

Yea WOW we have 4 powerful aoe cc classes  why tf im wasting my time here? 

We are more than self-sufficient 

Yea why not, lets waste some skill points on a skill with An efficiency of almost zero

 

How do you not understand what I've been saying the last few posts. You only need to resist Flow once like Dark circle and it doesn't work anymore.

 

It. Is. Exactly. The. Same. As. Circle.

 

Did you get the message yet?

 

How is Lv4 panic arrow bad on Hunters for example, It's one of the best aoe cc available. Not to mention you can use traps if people are in melee range.

Edited July 28, 2023 by Raislin

[pawned 64]

7 hours ago, Raislin said:

Also you forgot shamans with perma silence on weakness totem. 

Please explain 

[Raislin 337]

1 hour ago, pawned said:

Please explain 

Shamans can comfortably get cd of weakness totem down to 10/9 seconds easily, 8 will require some work but its doable. So in mass pvp situations where people aren't that mobile they will essentially almost always have 6ppl silenced. This isn't exactly rocket science.

[pawned 64]

11 hours ago, Raislin said:

perma silence on weakness totem. 

If this is perma mute, then someone here is cluelesss, and its not me :) (Gotta add Perma Mute to a folder with Crit. heal from Totem xD)

Edited July 28, 2023 by pawned

[Solo EU-Emerald 22]

1 minute ago, pawned said:

Kinda new to me and i believe to other shamans as well

seems like seeker players know more about our classes than we do

[Santa Claus 173]

1 hour ago, pawned said:

If this is perma mute, then someone here is cluelesss, and its not me :) (Gotta add Perma Mute to a folder with Crit. heal from Totem xD)

 

Seems like rogue is broken 

 

[Theweasel 161]

On 7/28/2023 at 10:15 PM, Solo EU-Emerald said:

seems like seeker players know more about our classes than we do

For more info ask to any elf

 

 

On 7/28/2023 at 10:13 PM, pawned said:

If this is perma mute, then someone here is cluelesss, and its not me :) (Gotta add Perma Mute to a folder with Crit. heal from Totem xD)

 

I clearly see an "perma silence"  

 

Edited July 28, 2023 by Ryohei

[Wuuzurd 15]

2 hours ago, Ryohei said:

For more info ask to any elf

 

 

Elfs dont know how mc skills work and mcs dont know how elf skills work, not suprising  

[Raislin 337]

12 hours ago, pawned said:

If this is perma mute, then someone here is cluelesss, and its not me :) (Gotta add Perma Mute to a folder with Crit. heal from Totem xD)

 

Congratulations you picked the worst possible situation to show this in. The 2nd totem will pick up 6 new players that don't have weakness totem debuff already and start silencing them.  While its not perma mute on single target it's perma mute on 6 people at all times pretty much, once your first 6 are off silence then next 6 get it instead. Just cause I said it a bit bad don't mean it's not true.  

How about take 2 targets this time and have them be separated and put weakness totem on cd down on each of them and see how long the time between silences are that way. Bet it wont be much more than 1-2 seconds. 

[pawned 64]

2 hours ago, Raislin said:

Congratulations you picked the worst possible situation to show this in. The 2nd totem will pick up 6 new players that don't have weakness totem debuff already and start silencing them.  While its not perma mute on single target it's perma mute on 6 people at all times pretty much, once your first 6 are off silence then next 6 get it instead.

.  

How about take 2 targets this time and have them be separated and put weakness totem on cd down on each of them and see how long the time between silences are that way. Bet it wont be much more than 1-2 seconds.

How can there be a good / bad situation ? You have said that Shaman can perma Mute. I have posted here a video and proved you wrong, because you cant perma mute.

 

 

 

2 hours ago, Raislin said:

While its not perma mute on single target it's perma mute on 6 people at all times pretty much, once your first 6 are off silence then next 6 get it instead

 

How can be something whats not PERMA on 1 person, be PERMA on 6 others ? Doesnt makes sense, or you have mistaken what PERMA is supposed to mean.

 

2 hours ago, Raislin said:

Just cause I said it a bit bad don't mean it's not true

 

So basically you are wrong about Perma mute, but also you are not at a same time ? :D how does this works ? 

[Jaan 124]

On 7/26/2023 at 1:39 PM, Lyzoic said:

Nice you already know my friends on here so well, wont bother to ask why their guild 50% of mages

[Raislin 337]

5 minutes ago, pawned said:

How can there be a good / bad situation ? You have said that Shaman can perma Mute. I have posted here a video and proved you wrong, because you cant perma mute.

 

 

 

 

How can be something whats not PERMA on 1 person, be PERMA on 6 others ? Doesnt makes sense, or you have mistaken what PERMA is supposed to mean.

 

 

So basically you are wrong about Perma mute, but also you are not at a same time ? :D how does this works ? 

You are pretending to not understand what I'm saying on purpose now. Stop pretending.

 

You will have 6 people on mute always, when the 6 people you first silenced are starting to lose their silence your 2nd set of of 6 ppl are going to receive their silences from your 2nd weakness totem.

Edited July 29, 2023 by Raislin

[just Ryan 21]

2 minutes ago, Raislin said:

You are pretending to not understand what I'm saying on purpose now. Stop pretending.

 

You will have 6 people on mute always, when the 6 people you first silenced are starting to lose their silence your 2nd set of of 6 ppl are going to receive their silences from your 2nd weakness totem.

Are you sure you know how the totem works? Last I checked seeker players aren't that familiar with how most aoe skills work.. Also this is a Templar post.. If you wanna cry about shaman go make a shaman post. 

[pawned 64]

Not at all. You have just said a bullshit, so im here to prove you wrong, and showed you your PERMA MUTE. thats all.

2 minutes ago, Raislin said:

You will have 6 people on mute always, when the 6 people you first silenced are starting to lose their silence your 2nd set of of 6 ppl are going to receive their silences from your 2nd weakness totem.

 

Im sorry, but thats not definition of PERMA MUTE, since its always gonna be 6 different people, and the first people which lost silence from previous totem, wont gain silence from another totem in time, to make it continuous.

[Raislin 337]

2 minutes ago, just Ryan said:

Are you sure you know how the totem works? Last I checked seeker players aren't that familiar with how most aoe skills work.. Also this is a Templar post.. If you wanna cry about shaman go make a shaman post. 

It's not like I don't have other characters, and who are you to tell me what to do anyway. Not to mention I wasn't the one who came into this topic to talk specifics about shaman skills.

 

1 minute ago, pawned said:

Not at all. You have just said a bullshit, so im here to prove you wrong, and showed you your PERMA MUTE. thats all.

 

Im sorry, but thats not definition of PERMA MUTE, since its always gonna be 6 different people, and the first people which lost silence from previous totem, wont gain silence from another totem in time, to make it continuous.

You quite literally have 6 people in silence always with enough cd. Therefore you have 6 people permanently silenced. It might not be the same 6 people but you will always have 6 people. How is that not permanent. I just used the word in a different fashion that it's usually used in Warspear related conversations but that doesn't mean it isn't true. Did you test the 2nd method yet? I'm sure you'd agree with me then, but I suppose I have to be the one always in the wrong since I main a seeker. 

[White17 5]

5 minutes ago, Raislin said:

You are pretending to not understand what I'm saying on purpose now. Stop pretending.

 

You will have 6 people on mute always, when the 6 people you first silenced are starting to lose their silence your 2nd set of of 6 ppl are going to receive their silences from your 2nd weakness totem.

It makes sense, doesn't it? First totem silences 6 people, and the next one silences another 6 people. This is not a perma, and remember bozo, the mute only works after 7 seconds, not immediately.

[just Ryan 21]

1 minute ago, Raislin said:

It's not like I don't have other characters, and who are you to tell me what to do anyway. Not to mention I wasn't the one who came into this topic to talk specifics about shaman skills.

 

You quite literally have 6 people in silence always with enough cd. Therefore you have 6 people permanently silenced. It might not be the same 6 people but you will always have 6 people. How is that not permanent. I just used the word in a different fashion that it's usually used in Warspear related conversations but that doesn't mean it isn't true. Did you test the 2nd method yet? I'm sure you'd agree with me then, but I suppose I have to be the one always in the wrong since I main a seeker. 

Oh no you're not the one who came here to cry about shaman, you came to bring justice to the world and bring balance to the force.. Seeker players smh.. 

 

I'll teach you the meaning of perma, it's short for permanent.. And it means having something 100% of the time.. I'll give you example of that.. The topic of this.. A Templar can perma that bubble with enough cd.. As for the shaman totem.. Yeah I'm pretty sure you're not quite familiar with how it actually works.. I suggest you do a bit of reading.. It'll take you 5min to familiarize yourself with it. If you want to prove someone wrong, provide something next time, Pawned provided a video, you provided talk and more talk. 

[Theweasel 161]

1 hour ago, Raislin said:

You are pretending to not understand what I'm saying on purpose now. Stop pretending.

 

You will have 6 people on mute always, when the 6 people you first silenced are starting to lose their silence your 2nd set of of 6 ppl are going to receive their silences from your 2nd weakness totem.

Then Why need another shamans to do it? 

 

Is just like being stun Consecutively by 5 beastmaster and start saying that all beastmasters has an aoe permastun

[Wuuzurd 15]

2 hours ago, just Ryan said:

I'll give you example of that.. The topic of this.. A Templar can perma that bubble with enough cd.. 

 

When you use templars bubble in a mass fight it most likely will never hit the same target again meaning its not perma in mass fights the same way shaman totem isnt perma silence? or is this one of those "its only bad when its in elf side" moments  only time and place that it can be perma is in 1v1, and heres some suprising info for u! this game isnt balanced around 1v1.  

[Lyzoic 101]

6 targets "perma silence" that can be removed easily even if not resisted, versus 30/45 target bubble that can't be removed if it's not resisted, honestly you should find better argument than totem for bubble.

 

13 hours ago, Wuuzurd said:

and heres some suprising info for u! this game isnt balanced around 1v1.  

Yeah you're right it's based on 4 templars placing bubbles and blocking 90 people from 3 yards road and then you're allowed to say ThAT WoNt EvEr HaPpEn iN rEaL GaMe SiTuAtIoN if 1 happened to resist it 

[Wuuzurd 15]

5 hours ago, Lyzoic said:

30/45 target bubble

 

Why does everyone keep saying 30+ target skill when with the talent its max 6/9? Without the talent its a 1.8 second stun, if your guild cant handle a stun that small u got bigger problems than just templars flow.  I suggest people start learning how to play around aoe stuns the same way elfs had to learn how to play around them instead of just coming to cry in forums whenever elfs finally get viable cc skills 

[Overhoul 52]

5 hours ago, Wuuzurd said:

 

Why does everyone keep saying 30+ target skill when with the talent its max 6/9? 

Because the flow stuns 6/9 enemies every 1.3 sec for 1.8 seconds. The flow bubble is 6.5 sec therefore there's a total of 5 times the bubble will stun the enemies that touch the bubble. If the previous enemy don't walk back into the bubble after being pushed, the bubble can stun up to 30 or 45 enemies that touched the bubble. Try to read and understand the skill mechanics .

[Wuuzurd 15]

3 hours ago, Overhoul said:

Because the flow stuns 6/9 enemies every 1.3 sec for 1.8 seconds. The flow bubble is 6.5 sec therefore there's a total of 5 times the bubble will stun the enemies that touch the bubble. If the previous enemy don't walk back into the bubble after being pushed, the bubble can stun up to 30 or 45 enemies that touched the bubble. Try to read and understand the skill mechanics .

 

i know exactly how the skill works, the people who should be walking in flow range are people with resist skills. u will almost never get a situation where u stun more thn 10 people unless enemies just used unity or are just dumb in general. Even on situations where it could stun 30-45 people for 1.8 secs i would still fight that over having perma silence and stun circle on me.
you gotta keep in mind too that half the time flow pushes u out of danger unless templar dives in the front line (most of the time getting the templar killed)

[Theweasel 161]

13 hours ago, Wuuzurd said:

 

Why does everyone keep saying 30+ target skill when with the talent its max 6/9? Without the talent its a 1.8 second stun, if your guild cant handle a stun that small u got bigger problems than just templars flow.  I suggest people start learning how to play around aoe stuns the same way elfs had to learn how to play around them instead of just coming to cry in forums whenever elfs finally get viable cc skills 

The skill has a total of 5 pulse

The max ppl that can stun are (6? Maybe more? )

6*5=30

9*5= 45

It doesn't necessarily stun the same 6/9 people from the beginning, but randomly

 

So, We all know it works if you get close to the vortex, no problem with that.

 

But what if templar throws the vortex all over your face? Obviously the first stun is inevitable, so if it is used in a crowd it will inevitably kick and stun  6/9  ppl every 1.3 seconds.

 

So, yes, 30/45 ppl  (maybe less if some of these 30/45 resist the skill, But this doesn't mean anything, it's still high) 

 

Also Together with other templars, it's like kicking an entire guild.

Something that the warlock can not do since it does meet the ppl limit that can stun 

 

Obviously the more warlocks there are, the more people you can catch, it is indisputable. 

 

They are not the same at all

 

I don't care if you think this is "crying" 

 

Clearly the advantage is enormous, but as it is customary we will have to resign ourselves, since we are never listened to 

 

 

Edited July 30, 2023 by Ryohei