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when can we expect a change to rogues?


just Ryan
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1 hour ago, just Ryan said:

 

You have no idea how easy it is to kill dodge rogues, all classes have their own method of killing dodge rogues and I can list everything and all they need is a little more than 2 brain cells. 

Believe it,  it is not easy at all, especially when they dodge or in the worst case scenario resist your only chance to keep them at bay,   and come on, the chances are few, and we are not talking only about +10 players, in fact some low amp players  use dodge build and are somewhat difficult to get rid off.

In pve this build ( for gvg) is not very effective, it is a small sacrifice that benefits in pvp. If you want to get good at gvg just pick another class dude... rogue is for instant damage not for crowd control, This class contributes in its own way. 

 

And yes, I have played with rogue...

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1 hour ago, triggeredAF said:

Maybe you're the one complaining about rogues being weak at GvG because you have no clue how to play?

I strongly disagree

I myself is a decent rogue player maxed out, and I asked all top rogues in us saffire they face same issue when it comes to gvg. 

1 hour ago, Kaesarz said:

If you want to get good at gvg just pick another class dude

What good is a damage class which cannot realise its damage, just gets stunned and dies like a mosquito.

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2 hours ago, triggeredAF said:

If you think that playing rogue is hard then I have bad news for you.

 

He can even be a warden lmao, that doesn't mean anything in this context, why do you even bring it? You asked for a build with max dodge and stun, he delivered it. As I said before, you can't have everything at once, this is not how this game works.

 

AFAIK on BR there are many strong rogues dominating arena, using full dodge builds. Probably the same thing on RU servers but I haven't played there for some time. Just because on your servers there are no good rogues on arena doesn't mean rogue as a class is bad.

 

This shows your nonexistent understanding of this game. You don't need to try every single build to understand that rogue will never be useful for GvG with its current skill set.

 

Maybe you're the one complaining about rogues being weak at GvG because you have no clue how to play?

ok mr bd.. what I'm pretty sure of is playing rogue is actually harder than you think.. it's actually harder to play than most other classes if you wanna make it actually effective, in fact the only classes harder to master than a rogue are locks and necros.

 

That other bd build had 1/4 extermination.. I won't go into that any rogue that have less than 1 month experience knows that's THE skill to max otherwise you have no damage.. let's look at that max dodge max stun build 1 more time.. it has 1/5 stealth.. awful.. 1/4 extermination.. worse.. lemme tell you something mate.. without extermination you don't have the cd to cycle your stuns.. so what we have here is a bad version of dodge rogue that has no damage output and awful cd..

 

in br there are 2 rogues in their best guild.. 2.rogues.. and they're not using dodge builds. on ru all the good rogues are using stun. now can you not blame your lack of skill on the game on others? it's getting old. if you have a problem with rogue in arena use detection pot on a druid-bd-pala-barb-charmer.. want some team comps too? try druid pala or bd pala.. barb charmer.. charmer shaman..anything with a stun ranger longer than flurry can kill rogues.. no matter how good you play a rogue you can't win these team comps if they use detection pots. you have a problem with kick? use purification pots.. last time i checked both of them are allowed in arena for some reason.

 

and now this is where you're dead wrong.. it actually reflects the number of braincells you have left.. in a mmorpg all classes should be viable.. no class should be bad in something. a rogue should be a viable option in gvg. now your mental capacity might not be able to understand all this so i'll make it simpler.. all classes need to be viable with some being better than others.. in my guild I am one of 6 rogues left. the best mc guild in the game have 2 rogues only. this means rogue is not a viable option. not viable means you can't play it in gvg.. if you can't play a class in gvg then we have a problem. now you'll translate this as oh he wants the rogue to be the best gvg class.. and here i remind you the difference between viable and best..

 

this seems to be your best argument you just said rogue can't be good in gvg now i'm bad? xd.. most people I've met say I play rogue really well.. have some people here also saying I play good so.. ehh..

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2 hours ago, Kaesarz said:

Believe it,  it is not easy at all, especially when they dodge or in the worst case scenario resist your only chance to keep them at bay,   and come on, the chances are few, and we are not talking only about +10 players, in fact some low amp players  use dodge build and are somewhat difficult to get rid off.

In pve this build ( for gvg) is not very effective, it is a small sacrifice that benefits in pvp. If you want to get good at gvg just pick another class dude... rogue is for instant damage not for crowd control, This class contributes in its own way. 

 

And yes, I have played with rogue...

sorry to disappoint you.. in eu +10 dodge rogues die like ants.. you can literally kill it with any other class if you know how.

 

rogue not being good for gvg is EXACTLY the reason I made this post. I don't have to play another class. any class I pick must be viable whether it's pve arena or gvg. now let me ask you a question.. you say rogue is for instant damage.. physical chiefs can 1 shot people in an instant.. for rogue to do damage he needs a set up.. now you may be able to kill some people in arena in 1 combo.. with some slim chance.. in reality there's druid that can save someone from certain death with 2 skills. pala also can save someone just as easily with a shield that can tank 10k damage. where is the contribution exactly? if you guys think rogue is a godly class in arena bring detection pot.. 90% of rogues are willing to sacrifice some of their arena prowess for gvg viability. 

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1 hour ago, Bruce Wayne said:

What good is a damage class which cannot realise its damage, just gets stunned and dies like a mosquito.

You're right, but it's how it's supposed to work. This is why rogues and seekers have the advantage of attacking by surprise. Their job is to do massive damage, and in case of being  gvg, the only thing left to do is eliminate one by one ...

 

Defense is not the strong point of the characters whose only job is to do damage ... Of course, this leaving aside the bd (they're like havel with axes in both hands:fuck_that:)

 

Not all damage characters are blessed with incredible dodge

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16 minutes ago, just Ryan said:

sorry to disappoint you.. in eu +10 dodge rogues die like ants.. you can literally kill it with any other class if you know how.

 

rogue not being good for gvg is EXACTLY the reason I made this post. I don't have to play another class. any class I pick must be viable whether it's pve arena or gvg. now let me ask you a question.. you say rogue is for instant damage.. physical chiefs can 1 shot people in an instant.. for rogue to do damage he needs a set up.. now you may be able to kill some people in arena in 1 combo.. with some slim chance.. in reality there's druid that can save someone from certain death with 2 skills. pala also can save someone just as easily with a shield that can tank 10k damage. where is the contribution exactly? if you guys think rogue is a godly class in arena bring detection pot.. 90% of rogues are willing to sacrifice some of their arena prowess for gvg viability. 

You are right about the chiefs (unfortunately it happened to me and it is very frustrating), but eventually the dodge will give you some opportunity to avoid that annoying instakill, obviously it will not work 100% of the time so it is a matter of luck. The healer is usually the target of absolutely everyone, even other healers xd.

The paladin's shield is something strong but it is not unbreakable and it is useless if the paladin is left alone, in addition to the fact that there are some relics that help eliminate positive effects on other players, obviously with a chance to work. Not everything can work as one wants. In gvg not only rogues have a hard time, in fact seekers are even more useless in those situations and I don't see anyone complaining about it, I'm not saying that the rogue is the best class out there, it's just that dodge  is a point in favor comparing it with other damage characters... 

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1 hour ago, just Ryan said:

ok mr bd.. what I'm pretty sure of is playing rogue is actually harder than you think.. it's actually harder to play than most other classes if you wanna make it actually effective, in fact the only classes harder to master than a rogue are locks and necros.

Wanna elaborate on that? Because that's just seems to be another opinion of yours that is not based on anything, really. Saying that lock and necro are the hardest classes to master in 2021 just shows your lack of knowledge regarding this game. In 2013 they were indeed considered hard but this game changes and with the addition of new skills they fell behind in terms of complexity.

 

1 hour ago, just Ryan said:

That other bd build had 1/4 extermination.. I won't go into that any rogue that have less than 1 month experience knows that's THE skill to max otherwise you have no damage.. let's look at that max dodge max stun build 1 more time.. it has 1/5 stealth.. awful.. 1/4 extermination.. worse.. lemme tell you something mate.. without extermination you don't have the cd to cycle your stuns.. so what we have here is a bad version of dodge rogue that has no damage output and awful cd..

Move on dude. You've asked for a build with stun and dodge - there's your build. It might not be the best in terms of damage/skill throughput but it is all about max dodge and max stun so stop crying about it.

 

1 hour ago, just Ryan said:

in br there are 2 rogues in their best guild.. 2.rogues.. and they're not using dodge builds

Their guild is heavily focused on 3 classes, it is not a good example. Just because they don't have rogues doesn't really mean anything, it's their choice. Look at the #2 or #3 guild, it has plenty of them. 

 

1 hour ago, just Ryan said:

and now this is where you're dead wrong.. it actually reflects the number of braincells you have left.. in a mmorpg all classes should be viable.. no class should be bad in something

Dude, you're the amoeba in this situation. You're trying to justify your low skill/insecurity against BDs by saying that your class is weak even though most players agree that it is actually quite strong ATM. Want me to teach you how to play in GvG? I am starting to doubt that you can do that on your own.

 

1 hour ago, just Ryan said:

mental capacity might not be able to understand all this so i'll make it simpler

Damn, so offensive:rofl: Let me remind you that you were the one who chose to create a rogue knowing that it is not the best for GvG. Warspear is not the type of game where every class is minimally good at every aspect of the game and it will probably never be so just accept the fact that your class is only good in certain scenarios and move on, stop crying. Just look to the older posts in this forum regarding balance. Nothing will change, you're just wasting your time.

 

1 hour ago, just Ryan said:

this seems to be your best argument you just said rogue can't be good in gvg now i'm bad? xd.. most people I've met say I play rogue really well.. have some people here also saying I play good so.. ehh..

Compliments from imaginary friends (probably fruit of your inflated ego) don't count, pal. 

Edited by triggeredAF
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I think this is all a waste of time.

 

Before it was a discussion of how bad rogue was, then came comparison with other classes, then came the discussion of skill numbers that one side has and the other doesn't.

 

Basically they say "rogue is bad" because they die easily even with pvp set and 60% dodge, because they are stunned, because another class does something better than rogue, or even because the kick in the back is resisted, because there is no anti stun or attack force, simply no argument. What was supposed to be a discussion of rogues has turned into a discussion of "legion classes don't have that".

 

Seems like they want to win only using 1 skill, want to be more defensive than tank classes, and want to take damage compared to the seeker just because the rogue doesn't have skills the other class has, or because the other class does better. They always want to compare rogue with bd, and one even said that parry is better than dodge.

How does a rogue with 60% dodge more easily, since he has skill that reduces accuracy by 45%, and it's very difficult to achieve 25% accuracy with gear, even putting on helmet and gloves with precision and precision crystals on everything? Why then after the back kick adjustment that let the skill reduce accuracy to negative, did everyone suddenly start using precision gear and precision crystals on everything, just to fight rogues? Why are they using pot to see invisible rogues when rogue is so bad? The topic author's knowledge of rogues is also questionable, he stated that dodge build is useless. So why ALL pvp rogues in the game are build dodge? Obviously there is something wrong with his rogue..

 

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11 minutes ago, Fabr said:

I think this is all a waste of time.

 

Before it was a discussion of how bad rogue was, then came comparison with other classes, then came the discussion of skill numbers that one side has and the other doesn't.

 

Basically they say "rogue is bad" because they die easily even with pvp set and 60% dodge, because they are stunned, because another class does something better than rogue, or even because the kick in the back is resisted, because there is no anti stun or attack force, simply no argument. What was supposed to be a discussion of rogues has turned into a discussion of "legion classes don't have that".

 

Seems like they want to win only using 1 skill, want to be more defensive than tank classes, and want to take damage compared to the seeker just because the rogue doesn't have skills the other class has, or because the other class does better. They always want to compare rogue with bd, and one even said that parry is better than dodge.

How does a rogue with 60% dodge more easily, since he has skill that reduces accuracy by 45%, and it's very difficult to achieve 25% accuracy with gear, even putting on helmet and gloves with precision and precision crystals on everything? Why then after the back kick adjustment that let the skill reduce accuracy to negative, did everyone suddenly start using precision gear and precision crystals on everything, just to fight rogues? Why are they using pot to see invisible rogues when rogue is so bad? The topic author's knowledge of rogues is also questionable, he stated that dodge build is useless. So why ALL pvp rogues in the game are build dodge? Obviously there is something wrong with his rogue..

 

Yes, this is a waste of time. It is hard to change the mind of someone who doesn't think... Even the discussion itself is useless.
The good thing is that the devs don't waste time on stuff like this so we can be sure that everything will stay as it is right now.😌

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6 hours ago, just Ryan said:

Btw a bd is the last person to talk about braincells.. 

 

you can prove your point without being offensive. Please, refrain from doing this from now on. You used this kind of offense several times; I won't tolerate one more. 

 

7 hours ago, Bruce Wayne said:

You sound like you don't even recognise the skills rogues have and just wanna nerf rogues because you can't Improve on yourself

 

He's saying rogues are fine the way they are and not that they need a nerf.

Honestly, I think it needs a buff in Many vs Many scenario, not just because of the GvG aspect more than the fact that this game is based on many vs many, thus every class shall play its part. On the other hand, annihilating a player from nowhere (maybe a ranged one) during a massive fight is indeed playing a part in GvG, although not a direct part. 

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15 hours ago, triggeredAF said:

The good thing is that the devs don't waste time on stuff like this so we can be sure that everything will stay as it is right now.😌

Yea that’s why they changed rogue skills so much despite the crying of some people :shy:

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15 hours ago, Fabr said:

I think this is all a waste of time.

 

Before it was a discussion of how bad rogue was, then came comparison with other classes, then came the discussion of skill numbers that one side has and the other doesn't.

 

Basically they say "rogue is bad" because they die easily even with pvp set and 60% dodge, because they are stunned, because another class does something better than rogue, or even because the kick in the back is resisted, because there is no anti stun or attack force, simply no argument. What was supposed to be a discussion of rogues has turned into a discussion of "legion classes don't have that".

 

Seems like they want to win only using 1 skill, want to be more defensive than tank classes, and want to take damage compared to the seeker just because the rogue doesn't have skills the other class has, or because the other class does better. They always want to compare rogue with bd, and one even said that parry is better than dodge.

How does a rogue with 60% dodge more easily, since he has skill that reduces accuracy by 45%, and it's very difficult to achieve 25% accuracy with gear, even putting on helmet and gloves with precision and precision crystals on everything? Why then after the back kick adjustment that let the skill reduce accuracy to negative, did everyone suddenly start using precision gear and precision crystals on everything, just to fight rogues? Why are they using pot to see invisible rogues when rogue is so bad? The topic author's knowledge of rogues is also questionable, he stated that dodge build is useless. So why ALL pvp rogues in the game are build dodge? Obviously there is something wrong with his rogue..

 

Bro did you really go through the entire thread?

 

The author, other people, forum mod, house flies, mosquitoes, crows, dinosaurs and some other species on earth have agreed that;


*ROGUES ARE GOOD IN 1v1 SITUATIONS,BUT ARE DEFEATABLE EVEN IN THAT SITUATION.

*ROGUES ARE GOOD IN ARENA UNTIL DETECTION POT

*ROGUES GVG SKILLS ARE NON EXISTENT 

*ROGUES NEED SOME BUFF IN GVG AS GUILDS ARE KICKING ROGUES IN EU EMERALD 

*ROGUE DOESNT HAVE TO BE AS GOOD AS BD OR ANY OTHER CLASS FOR THAT MATTER 

*ROGUE JUST NEED A SIMPLE PATCH IN GVG ASPECT OF THE GAME (don’t get scared already like @triggeredAF)

*THAT GVG PATCH DOESN’T NEED TO BE VERY STRONG TOO, JUST A SMALL GVG COMPATIBLE CHANGE WILL GO A LONG WAY.

 

bro even after this if u still keep repeating 60% dodge, 1skill win, negative accuracy etc I think you need English lessons. Just my opinion.

 

 

 

 

P.S. 

While analyzing the skills of a class you have to take in consideration the environment it has. We have to take into consideration the skills of all other classes, since this is a mmorpg. So in my opinion it’s normal to compare the number of skills one side has and it’s strength.

 

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4 minutes ago, Bruce Wayne said:

*ROGUES ARE GOOD IN 1v1 SITUATIONS,BUT ARE DEFEATABLE EVEN IN THAT SITUATION.

*ROGUES ARE GOOD IN ARENA UNTIL DETECTION POT

These points were made since people shouldn’t assume rogues are 100% undefeatable in 1v1 and arena situations and are not doing 100% EXCELLENT in PVE. When people start assuming that, they will come to a conclusion that every character cannot have every aspect of the game. 
By acknowledging that rogues have major weaknesses even in the place they are supposed to outplay other characters is why they need some love in GVG area.

I hope I have cleared ur doubts.

sorry if I have hurt anyone while expressing my thoughts.

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17 hours ago, Kaesarz said:

Not all damage characters are blessed with incredible dodge

Dodge is not as sacred as you think 

dodge can easily be countered, but I just don’t want to disclose how because my enemies are watching too :shy:

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15 hours ago, Higgings said:

On the other hand, annihilating a player from nowhere (maybe a ranged one) during a massive fight is indeed playing a part in GvG, although not a direct part. 

I totally agree rogues and seekers are assassins. But trust me this scenario can go sideways for the following reasons;

1. CC of enemy 

2. DETECTION POT

3. Long ranged control with detection pot

4. The player controlling the rogue before the player dies

Edited by Bruce Wayne
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38 minutes ago, Bruce Wayne said:

I totally agree rogues and seekers are assassins. But trust me this scenario can go sideways for the following reasons;

1. CC of enemy 

2. DETECTION POT

3. Long ranged control with detection pot

4. The player controlling the rogue before the player dies

I think them pots should have a chance instead of working 100%. Put them 2 class in a disadvantage. 

Edited by Speedom
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Properly geared rogues can be good in gvgs too. There had been a few who are amazing at picking off people in the outskirts of the fights. You can't just run in like a tank and expect to live.

 

And im still convinced the creator of this topic has never even touched a properly built, actually maxed out rogue, cause those are borderline unkillable, especially on the outskirts of gvgs while pot spamming.

Edited by vavavi
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9 hours ago, Bruce Wayne said:

Dodge is not as sacred as you think 

dodge can easily be countered, but I just don’t want to disclose how because my enemies are watching too :shy:

The constant damage skills like, pool of darkness, blazing ground, punitive roots, there is no more xd (maybe rain of arrows that cannot be dodged) 
The rest is resisted or dodged, besides that the skills that I mentioned can be evaded with the elusive jump (I know .. I have done it and it works), I do not know more ... Tell us how to deal against a full dodge rogue pls xd:calm-down-crazy-rabbit-emoticon:

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On 9/4/2021 at 1:06 PM, vavavi said:

Properly geared rogues can be good in gvgs too. There had been a few who are amazing at picking off people in the outskirts of the fights. You can't just run in like a tank and expect to live.

 

And im still convinced the creator of this topic has never even touched a properly built, actually maxed out rogue, cause those are borderline unkillable, especially on the outskirts of gvgs while pot spamming.

 

It really depends.

 

On Tourmaline GvGs are 100v100 and fights happen in packs, so rogues are unfortunately pretty much useless.

Our guild has 1 for the sole purpose of scouting, nothing else.

 

META atm is :

20 Shamans

20 Locks

30 Chieftains

8-10 Barbarians

15 Hunters

5 Necros

 

Charmers, Dks and Rogues are subpar for GvG atm

 

 

 

 

Edited by Arthas
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2 hours ago, Arthas said:

 

It really depends.

 

On Tourmaline GvGs are 100v100 and fights happen in packs, so rogues are unfortunately pretty much useless.

Our guild has 1 for the sole purpose of scouting, nothing else.

 

META atm is :

20 Shamans

20 Locks

30 Chieftains

8-10 Barbarians

15 Hunters

5 Necros

 

Charmers, Dks and Rogues are subpar for GvG atm

 

 

 

 

Well yea its situational obviously. But for example in chaos gvg its a really good class for picking off late arrivals or people respawning. 

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57 minutes ago, vavavi said:

Well yea its situational obviously. But for example in chaos gvg its a really good class for picking off late arrivals or people respawning. 

 

It really depends on how hard is it for "X" guild to get 100 people inside a GvG, if you can get that many people , then its not worth it wasting slots on rogues.

 

If "X" guild can't , then any class will do.

 

And i say that as a ex-rogue , Full +10 Greatness that left my character Inactive because of how little use it has on GvGs , and i'm a guild Leader,  so thats the most important content ingame for me.

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