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I guess there are something to speak about


Fortuno
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Well well, I started Deathknight simply because it has proven to be (IMO) the best tanking class ever, capable of surviving big amounts of punishment from waves of enemies.

Unfortunately it's really quite outdated right now, and me getting suggestions to raise vampirism, and use other means to gain the said stat just proves it's underwhelming.

Anyhow, Blood protection. 50% damage reduction for 8seconds at 4/4, 22seconds of cooldown by default. The only reason I'm using it is because I've no other alternatives at the moment.

But it could be so much better. It really needs an additional buff to make the skill more alluring. Shaman's get to remove debuffs, DK's get nothing really.

Give 'em something alright?Like a def increase depending on skill level(maybe 10,20,30,40% numerical value increase for some time) or maybe even heal the Deathknight(5,10,15,20% of maximum HP, could be op but numbers can be toned down), because heck, even barbarians now can heal up to 2k and get extra damage buff on top of it. Because seriously if saturation and vamp gear, or sacrificing other stats for life regeneration to make the most of Secret reserves are the only ways to go, then I'm sorry but it's just pure rubbish.

 

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death knight need something for sure, but you are giving bad examples.

improving blood protection IMO shouldn't be with new effect to the skill but rather rebalancing of numbers

 

1 hour ago, Fortuno said:

Shaman's get to remove debuffs, DK's get nothing really.

you shouldn't compare a healing/supporting class to a tank class in term of what they got or can do

 

1 hour ago, Fortuno said:

Give 'em something alright?Like a def increase depending on skill level(maybe 10,20,30,40% numerical value increase for some time)

death knight. like other tanks. doesn't need armor increase. we already got aura of hatred for that

 

1 hour ago, Fortuno said:

or maybe even heal the Deathknight(5,10,15,20% of maximum HP, could be op but numbers can be toned down), because heck, even barbarians now can heal up to 2k and get extra damage buff on top of it. Because seriously if saturation and vamp gear, or sacrificing other stats for life regeneration to make the most of Secret reserves are the only ways to go, then I'm sorry but it's just pure rubbish.

now we are talking! i have said this many times and will say it again now that there is a rebalance update soon. what death knight needs the most is a form of healing and better damage reduction. and all that can be achieved with slight change in dk skill numbers

 

with blood protection: (remember! this is just an opinion, and a way to fix a problem)

demanding a increase in duration or decrease in cooldown without taking effect in account is unfair. so if we need to change either duration or cooldown, we need to change damage reduction as well. warden has a continues active that give them 25% damage reduction, paladin has a passive that increase damage reduction with health, barbarian has a passive that give them 80% damage reduction for couple of hits. with that in mind, my suggestion for blood protection is for the skill to give 10% / 15% / 20% / 25% damage reduction but increasing the duration to a 15sec / 20sec / 30sec / 45sec with a 60sec cooldown. now this gonna change several things with the dk.

1- having these duration and cooldown will sync the skill with saturation and aura of hatred as all 3 skills will have a somewhat similar duration/cooldown.

2-making the skill have as much as 45sec duration will allow the death knight. with enough cooldown reduction. to perma-use the skill. effectively placing the death knight in the same pedestal as the other tanks. while the skill will not be permanently active. death knight can still get a way to do so.

 

saturation:

IMO the skill is good the way it is, it gives 25% life steal! a broken amount of a broken stat for 15 seconds at max level. my only complain with the skill is the 10% max health consumption. why would this skill need such restriction to it? what does that 10% supposed to achieve? from what i see.. there is no reason what so ever to have that extra thing to that one skill in the entire game.

 

secret reserve:

if the next balance update do things right with the dk. then 2 paths will open in term of healing for the dk. a dk could either cure themselves with saturation and lifesteal or they could cure themselves with secret reserve and health regeneration. secret reserve numbers are actually really good, a dk that goes the path of secret reserve with around 350hp regen can get as much as 1k heal every 1.7 seconds for 12sec ! this might seem amazing but what makes this skill really awful is their 2 minute cooldown! yes 2 minute cooldown. with no way to reduce that time, dk has to wait 2 minute to get healed again. this is really bad considering dk need to fully invest in health regeneration to get such numbers. throwing both life steal stat and other defensive/offensive stats. secret reserve need a change in cooldown mechanic.

 

in the end. the only thing keeping death knight from failing as a tank in end game is mermen gear, +10 and libraries, as skills had failed us.

Edited by Ogull
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I honestly like secret reserve the way it is. Yea 2min is long. The auto regeneration is nice. Honestly, with a good healer, my passive is almost never needed. Blood protection is the only skill I want to see the improvement or changes. Like y'all said, 8 sec is too short. Especially endgame where you're going against cc bosses.

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20 hours ago, Ogull said:

death knight. like other tanks. doesn't need armor increase. we already got aura of hatred for that

Which is 15% increase, which is neglibile. Frankly speaking, it's a joke.

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On 10/17/2021 at 11:24 PM, Ogull said:

with blood protection: (remember! this is just an opinion, and a way to fix a problem)

demanding a increase in duration or decrease in cooldown without taking effect in account is unfair. so if we need to change either duration or cooldown, we need to change damage reduction as well. warden has a continues active that give them 25% damage reduction, paladin has a passive that increase damage reduction with health, barbarian has a passive that give them 80% damage reduction for couple of hits. with that in mind, my suggestion for blood protection is for the skill to give 10% / 15% / 20% / 25% damage reduction but increasing the duration to a 15sec / 20sec / 30sec / 45sec with a 60sec cooldown. now this gonna change several

We already have dark shield and i dont see reason why would we need same skill again . In my opinion blood should have more duration or less cd.   This skill is it doesnt work while u are stunned bcs u cant activate it so it wouldnt be a problem to deal with it and wont  be so op.

 

Aura seems good but doesnt give much value to spent x3 skill point on it (bcs u cant perma cycle if u dont max it).

 

Secret reserve need really op rework rn skill work bcs u dont have nothing else to use as dk . In pve problem with this skill is it wont activate at all if u have heal minion or anything that can heal u. Pvp problem is really noticable beside 2 min cd after arena fight skill doesnt reset or while u are doing seals or crucible it feels like -3  skill points and on top of that u need to sacrfice better stats just to make it work. It can be negated with sleep and some other chars can remove it +u can die be4 u even get healed once by it.

It would be nice to boost blow of the silence and exhalation of darkness bcs one  class on elf side have all that in 1 skill while we got what 1 hit dmg boost and some deff reduction. (I was thinking about having silence and hurricane combo where dk could aoe silence like many other chars have but i guess it wont happen)

I wont talk about saturation bcs i think that we all already know the problem.

Now in terms of magic build i think that dk really need better defence or support with this build i mean if curse is resisted u cant do anything and that 25% reduction is for nothing it would be better to make it area skill.

Sharp shadow is good but that combo with saturation is really really bad, i dont see a point to use  it + u cant even do the combo bcs u will be stunned and guess what u lost 10%of hp.  So in my opinion if we look at magic dks we  need some kind of support( maybe blood protection being able to be used on your ally and u get some reduction too , something similiar like pala shield) and curse to be placed as other aoe skills bcs its only way to kill ur enemy and if it is resisted it is over(atleast maybe make exhalation pull more targets and increse root time so it would make some kind of combo for curse to do some work bcs all other aoe dmgs are able to crowd control their opponents and  deal huge dmg like mage who can jump in chief that can run in enemy pala that also jump and silence others)

Im generally really sad that change wont happen be4 1 of 3 main game events bcs its really needed we waited so long for this and it will be skipped. So im hoping that dk will get deserved buff it doesnt need to be op but i want it to be playable.

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1 hour ago, Santa Claus said:

We already have dark shield and i dont see reason why would we need same skill again . In my opinion blood should have more duration or less cd.   This skill is it doesnt work while u are stunned bcs u cant activate it so it wouldnt be a problem to deal with it and wont  be so op.

 

Aura seems good but doesnt give much value to spent x3 skill point on it (bcs u cant perma cycle if u dont max it).

 

Secret reserve need really op rework rn skill work bcs u dont have nothing else to use as dk . In pve problem with this skill is it wont activate at all if u have heal minion or anything that can heal u. Pvp problem is really noticable beside 2 min cd after arena fight skill doesnt reset or while u are doing seals or crucible it feels like -3  skill points and on top of that u need to sacrfice better stats just to make it work. It can be negated with sleep and some other chars can remove it +u can die be4 u even get healed once by it.

It would be nice to boost blow of the silence and exhalation of darkness bcs one  class on elf side have all that in 1 skill while we got what 1 hit dmg boost and some deff reduction. (I was thinking about having silence and hurricane combo where dk could aoe silence like many other chars have but i guess it wont happen)

I wont talk about saturation bcs i think that we all already know the problem.

Now in terms of magic build i think that dk really need better defence or support with this build i mean if curse is resisted u cant do anything and that 25% reduction is for nothing it would be better to make it area skill.

Sharp shadow is good but that combo with saturation is really really bad, i dont see a point to use  it + u cant even do the combo bcs u will be stunned and guess what u lost 10%of hp.  So in my opinion if we look at magic dks we  need some kind of support( maybe blood protection being able to be used on your ally and u get some reduction too , something similiar like pala shield) and curse to be placed as other aoe skills bcs its only way to kill ur enemy and if it is resisted it is over(atleast maybe make exhalation pull more targets and increse root time so it would make some kind of combo for curse to do some work bcs all other aoe dmgs are able to crowd control their opponents and  deal huge dmg like mage who can jump in chief that can run in enemy pala that also jump and silence others)

Im generally really sad that change wont happen be4 1 of 3 main game events bcs its really needed we waited so long for this and it will be skipped. So im hoping that dk will get deserved buff it doesnt need to be op but i want it to be playable.

So after making a DK to see why dk is a "Noob" tank. I realized that players saying that because their tank have low physical defense while going to high lvl dgs. The ones that have high defense are the ones complaining of not have a good heal skill because they want to go to dg without a healer. DK kit is really good with less penalties to worry vs other tanks I've tried. So far DK is my favorite style of tank. However, I'm still incomplete due to the needs of 2 particular rings and an amulet. Not going to say too much because of the judgmental. I'll show you once I get them. Might need a solid month at maximum.

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7 hours ago, Santa Claus said:

We already have dark shield and i dont see reason why would we need same skill again . In my opinion blood should have more duration or less cd.   This skill is it doesnt work while u are stunned bcs u cant activate it so it wouldnt be a problem to deal with it and wont  be so op.

again. the point i was trying to get at is that you can't have an increase in duration or a decrease in cd while keeping 50% damage reduction the same. the skill will completely be unfair. if we give the skill a 12sec duration or a 18-15sec cooldown, dk will have, with enough work. permanent 50% damage reduction(even if the skill will have at most 2-3sec in between uses), the last thing we want is a repeat of warden's permanent 50% damage reduction. you need to think outside of the skill alone. if we only give a buff to the skill without a decrease in anything, then dk's with 50% damage reduction + dark shield + 30/25% damage reduction from mermen will start popping up and not being killed by anyone and will become the new town tank. I more than anyone wants a buff to dk, but we gotta be reasonable here.

 

8 hours ago, Santa Claus said:

Aura seems good but doesnt give much value to spent x3 skill point on it (bcs u cant perma cycle if u dont max it).

 

15 hours ago, Fortuno said:

Which is 15% increase, which is neglibile. Frankly speaking, it's a joke.

the skill gives me ~1540 armor, which i find quite nice. the skill gives 15% increase for a whole 45sec, as far as i know, no other tank got such an ability except paladin. and even that only increase armor

if what you are asking for is a skill that makes you able to tank without regard to gear, other stats and skills then i don't know what to say :piggy:

also, lets not forget that the skill also gives 15% damage increase as well for... again, a WHOLE 45 SECONDS, if your asking for a increase in armor, what would happen to the damage increase? are you fine with it being removed? does it stay the same? or are you asking for both of them to be increased???

 

6 hours ago, Speedom said:

The ones that have high defense are the ones complaining of not have a good heal skill because they want to go to dg without a healer.

no. what we are complaining about is, why are every other tank capable of going to a dg without healer while dk can't? why every other tank got a permanent damage reduction skill(mostly a passive that doesnt even need a skill slot or mana) while dk only get a 8sec damage reduction? why every other tank got at most 45sec heal while dk have 2 minute heal? what we are asking for is for dk to be placed in the same level as what his colleagues tanks can do, it is a well known fact that dk is a 1 vs many tank, that shines the most when tanking horde of mobs. however recently the game is going for low amount of really strong mobs with stuns and highly damaging skills, endgame content is becoming insufferable for dk, the more and more you play your dk the more and more you come to realize that, specially at endgame raid bosses and dgs

 

I'll say it again. what dk needs the most is sustainable continues/permanent  damage reduction as well as a better form of healing.

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1 minute ago, Ogull said:

 No. what we are complaining about is, why are every other tank capable of going to a dg without healer while dk can't? why every other tank got a permanent damage reduction skill(mostly a passive that doesnt even need a skill slot or mana) while dk only get a 8sec damage reduction? why every other tank got at most 45sec heal while dk have 2 minute heal? what we are asking for is for dk to be placed in the same level as what his colleagues tanks can do, it is a well known fact that dk is a 1 vs many tank, that shines the most when tanking horde of mobs. however recently the game is going for low amount of really strong mobs with stuns and highly damaging skills, endgame content is becoming insufferable for dk, the more and more you play your dk the more and more you come to realize that, specially at endgame raid bosses and dgs

 

I'll say it again. what dk needs the most is sustainable continues/permanent  damage reduction as well as a better form of healing.

Makes since, i guess that's why they add Dark Shield + and blood barrier in the talent tree.  Btw, paladin dmg reduction is trash because at 4/4 with 50% hp, they only get 10% reduction. However, they do have a better way of tanking with hp build. Paladins always needed a healer unless the player money dumps into it. Trust me, paladins are not that strong as a tank without strong investment. A DK with 8k defense can tank better than a 10k defense paladin. Anywho, warden need healers in dg now after the nerf. Trying to make a tank without the need for a healer is possible, but super expensive. Besides, bring a healer into the party. Tired of hearing "healers are useless now".

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7 minutes ago, Speedom said:

Btw, paladin dmg reduction is trash because at 4/4 with 50% hp, they only get 10% reduction. However, they do have a better way of tanking with hp build. Paladins always needed a healer unless the player money dumps into it. Trust me, paladins are not that strong as a tank without strong investment.

i agree inner force is trash, but i was talking about scared shield. beside if a paladin have access to a castle and its potion, then lord have mercy on any healer that tries to heal more than them, but even without them still a 10sec heal is way better than a 2minutes 1:pensative:

7 minutes ago, Speedom said:

Besides, bring a healer into the party. Tired of hearing "healers are useless now".

we can always nerf all other tanks to the level of dks :cat2: then you will have 3 classes worth of people complaining instead of 1

Edited by Ogull
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6 minutes ago, Ogull said:

i agree inner force is trash, but i was talking about scared shield. beside if a paladin have access to a castle and its potion, then lord have mercy on any healer that tries to heal more than them, but even without them still a 10sec heal is way better than a 2minutes one :pensative:

we can always nerf all other tanks to the level of dks :cat2: then you will have 3 classes worth of people complaining instead of 1

100% agree. Lol but I believe pala shield is gonna get tweaked. It's too powerful. I believe DK shield is going to get tweaked also. I hope the cd reset after combat. Except arena because you can run away and be out of combat mode in seconds lol. Pretty much of what every Dk want.

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Besides the cool down time and duration the problem with Protection is the fact that you have to keep clicking on the skill, as as a tank you have to focus on keeping the monsters focused on you. In the case of this skill the most practical way to adjust would be to turn it into passive as a lasting defense (5% *10 stacks). What would not be so Overpower compared to other Tank classes and would make sense in the DK's kit, which deals damage and heals over time. Plus just the fact of adjusting the Wings will already become more Robust, even more if it has a fixed increment of damage reduction along with the way it currently works. (Example, Current Reduction + 10% Fixed Reduction). It's amazing how great the class's skills are, but they're extremely nerfed.

 

What do you think @Ogull

Edited by Filipe Ramon
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8 hours ago, Filipe Ramon said:

the fact that you have to keep clicking on the skill, as as a tank you have to focus on keeping the monsters focused on you.

Yes! That's what I've been trying to say for the longest time

 

8 hours ago, Filipe Ramon said:

In the case of this skill the most practical way to adjust would be to turn it into passive as a lasting defense (5% *10 stacks). What would not be so Overpower compared to other Tank classes and would make sense in the DK's kit,

This is another wonderful suggestion for the skill :clapping:and the more we give our suggestions regarding the skill, the more likely for it to change

 

8 hours ago, Filipe Ramon said:

It's amazing how great the class's skills are, but they're extremely nerfed.

I agree. The class skills are amazing and unique, but the bad numbers make this class a disappointed for anyone new trying the class

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On 10/19/2021 at 11:39 AM, Speedom said:

I believe DK shield is going to get tweaked also

 

Yes, because who could even think to fight a DK being capable to ignore 150 dmg of yours (and I'm not even joking here) of the 1.2k you do with auto hits? Or who could even think not to pick a DK being capable to fight vs several monsters who are also capable to stun DK to death because we litterally haven't got any skill which prevents us from being stunned

 

For the first part; Yes Seekers and Bladedancers, I'm watching you.

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