Zone of weakness

[Dono da verdade 28]

how much percentage does this ability take from the enemy's defense when it has on its effect?

 

 

Edited May 16, 2021 by Higgings
Please, use normal sized letters

[Khrone 464]

80% on 4/4, and i think it is 20-40-60% on 1, 2 and 3/4 respectively.

 

It only reduces magical defense though.

Edited May 16, 2021 by Khrone

[TheCaster 263]

Just to make it clear, it cuts the numerical value of mdef and not the mdef % directly.
With reference to this example, 3945 - (0.8 x 3945) = 3945 - 3158.4 = 786.

Hope this helped.

[Dono da verdade 28]

this debuff takes away 80% of the magic defense, this is very unusual, isn't it ?? 80% and a lot.

 

Edited May 23, 2021 by Higgings
Please, use normal sized letters - you were asked this more than once

[Khrone 464]

6 hours ago, Dono da verdade said:

this debuff takes away 80% of the magic defense, this is very unusual, isn't it ??
80% and a lot.

That's more for PvE tho

[Higgings 1609]

6 hours ago, Dono da verdade said:

this debuff takes away 80% of the magic defense, this is very unusual, isn't it ?? 80% and a lot.

 

 

Define "unusual". 

[triggeredAF 135]

2 hours ago, Higgings said:

 

Define "unusual". 

Are there other skills with such impact?

[Higgings 1609]

43 minutes ago, GalaxyRekt said:

Are there other skills with such impact?

 

I could answer you but I fear I would go off topic

 

Just a reminder of how classes like - example - bladedancers manage to get 40% more basic damage by paying litterally 0, or how Paladins can create shields (with relatively low cooldown) which absorb as much damage as the ammount of the user's HPs. I could then venture the shield Templars have got, which absorbs an ammount equals to the 275% of the sum of magic + physical damage, making of it maybe the best hybrid class the game has got (in terms of combining magic + physical attack)...

 

I could write stuff like that the whole day, so let's just refrain from comparing other skills and let's start walking away from these zones when we see a warlock casting this skill.  

[Dono da verdade 28]

4 hours ago, Khrone said:

Isso é mais para PvE embora

this is being used in PVP

[Khrone 464]

1 hour ago, Dono da verdade said:

this is being used in PVP

I'm talking about the defense reduction effect, not the whole skill

 

[triggeredAF 135]

5 hours ago, Higgings said:

 

I could answer you but I fear I would go off topic

 

Just a reminder of how classes like - example - bladedancers manage to get 40% more basic damage by paying litterally 0, or how Paladins can create shields (with relatively low cooldown) which absorb as much damage as the ammount of the user's HPs. I could then venture the shield Templars have got, which absorbs an ammount equals to the 275% of the sum of magic + physical damage, making of it maybe the best hybrid class the game has got (in terms of combining magic + physical attack)...

 

I could write stuff like that the whole day, so let's just refrain from comparing other skills and let's start walking away from these zones when we see a warlock casting this skill.  

When you want to see whether a skill is balanced or not you have to compare it to others. You can't understand if a skill is OK basing only on its description.

[Khrone 464]

1 hour ago, GalaxyRekt said:

When you want to see whether a skill is balanced or not you have to compare it to others. You can't understand if a skill is OK basing only on its description.

Comparing skills = comparing classes

• Paladin can heal allies and deals damage increase debuff in area, while the DK can only heal itself and only increases the damage dealt to one target
• Templar has more survivability than Warlock, but Lock deals more damage
• Warden tanks more than Barbarian, but Brb deals more damage
• Druid has 5 (if i remember correctly) healings, while Shaman only has 2, however, it has more buffing skills while Druid has more control

Conclusion: No, you shouldn't compare skills (or classes).

[triggeredAF 135]

34 minutes ago, Khrone said:

Comparing skills = comparing classes

• Paladin can heal allies and deals damage increase debuff in area, while the DK can only heal itself and only increases the damage dealt to one target
• Templar has more survivability than Warlock, but Lock deals more damage
• Warden tanks more than Barbarian, but Brb deals more damage
• Druid has 5 (if i remember correctly) healings, while Shaman only has 2, however, it has more buffing skills while Druid has more control

Conclusion: No, you shouldn't compare skills (or classes).

A class is not just a set of skills, there's more to it. For example, a skill's effect usually heavily depends on the equipment that you're using. The "conclusion" you tried to make is just wrong. Sure every class has its role but you need to understand its impact in general. Of course looking skill by skill is not the best idea, one should have in mind the entire skillset and the possible builds but some skills are just weird (paladin's shield, barb's skin, ...)

[Higgings 1609]

4 hours ago, GalaxyRekt said:

When you want to see whether a skill is balanced or not you have to compare it to others. You can't understand if a skill is OK basing only on its description.

 

No, if you want to see whether a skill is balanced or not you have to check it on battle, without buffs nor anything else but the pure skill and it's strenght at its maximum level. You eventually can test the said skill against the enemy faction, but you don't compare skills with each other, especially from totally different classes; what kind of result would you ever get comparing 2 totally different skills belonging to 2 totally different classes? 

[triggeredAF 135]

13 minutes ago, Higgings said:

 

No, if you want to see whether a skill is balanced or not you have to check it on battle, without buffs nor anything else but the pure skill and it's strenght at its maximum level. You eventually can test the said skill against the enemy faction, but you don't compare skills with each other, especially from totally different classes; what kind of result would you ever get comparing 2 totally different skills belonging to 2 totally different classes? 

You can't know if a skill is balanced or not when abstracting it from the rest of the game. For example, 40% auto attack on bd might seem too much, but then you add the rest of skillset and understand that actually it's fine, you find that the auto attack is the only good option that class has to actually do some damage and those 40% are pretty much essential. By "comparing skills" I mentioned comparing the impact that each skill adds to the already existing skillset, I think that was pretty clear, didn't think I needed to specify that. Comparing skills individually might make sense in some cases though.

[Khrone 464]

3 hours ago, GalaxyRekt said:

A class is not just a set of skills, there's more to it. For example, a skill's effect usually heavily depends on the equipment that you're using. The "conclusion" you tried to make is just wrong. Sure every class has its role but you need to understand its impact in general. Of course looking skill by skill is not the best idea, one should have in mind the entire skillset and the possible builds but some skills are just weird (paladin's shield, barb's skin, ...)

So you want to compare skills but not classes?

[triggeredAF 135]

1 minute ago, Khrone said:

So you want to compare skills but not classes?

All I am trying to say is that disassociating the skill from the rest of the game doesn't yield you correct/useful results. So, in order to adequately test it you need to have some other references to start.

[Higgings 1609]

8 hours ago, GalaxyRekt said:

You can't know if a skill is balanced or not when abstracting it from the rest of the game. For example, 40% auto attack on bd might seem too much, but then you add the rest of skillset and understand that actually it's fine, you find that the auto attack is the only good option that class has to actually do some damage and those 40% are pretty much essential.

 

Alright, let's see then everything from this point of view. 80% less def might seem extremely high, but considering that locks have got litterally 0 defensive skills (don't you even dare to consider stone body as "defensive") and that they base their strenght on pure offensive skills, I can't see anything bad with that. All you have to do after all is resisting one stun and 2 hit a lock, thing which is pretty easy to do with a class capable to obtain 40% more strength out of nowhere. Don't forget that BD is formerly a tank and not a damager. Let's even justify that "they have got no other skill to make damage with" (thing which I highly disagree with as well), but bear in mind that they pay 0 to get such potential. You can't counter that in any way, especially with a class which can't even defend itself from the most basic hits. 

 

8 hours ago, GalaxyRekt said:

Comparing skills individually might make sense in some cases though

 

No, again, it doesn't. Because those classes are not the same, and the same skill might have a different impact if given to a different class. 

 

7 hours ago, GalaxyRekt said:

All I am trying to say is that disassociating the skill from the rest of the game doesn't yield you correct/useful results. So, in order to adequately test it you need to have some other references to start.

 

To do that you would need to select your datas accordingly to objective criteria. Since we haven't got anything like that, any pick you'd make would be the wrong decision. The only type of selection you could try to make is the impact in many vs many scenarios and eventually deciding by answering this simple question: "what does the counterpart have to put a sort of balance?" Or "is there a way to counter this skill?" (Yes... just walk away from it...) 

"Does the counterpart have classes who can resist this skill?" (Yes, it does. BD, Mage, Warden...)

[lore 254]

18 hours ago, Khrone said:

Druid has 5 (if i remember correctly) healings, while Shaman only has 2, however, it has more buffing skills while Druid has more control

attualy them are healing dew (passive healing buff), renvigorating stream(if i didnt mispell the name, but its minor healing+energy recovery for the one with lowest hp in % in the party) and secret link(party aoe healing), unless some extra skill has been added whiout me noticing

 

Edited May 24, 2021 by lore
fogrot to enter some deail

[Khrone 464]

1 hour ago, lore said:

attualy them are healing dew (passive healing buff), renvigorating stream(if i didnt mispell the name, but its minor healing+energy recovery for the one with lowest hp in % in the party) and secret link(party aoe healing), unless some extra skill has been added whiout me noticing

There is also the one added on 8.4 and Healing Barrier

Edited May 24, 2021 by Khrone

[Dono da verdade 28]

20 hours ago, Higgings said:

 

Tudo bem, vamos ver então tudo desse ponto de vista. 80% menos defesa pode parecer extremamente alta, mas considerando que as fechaduras têm literalmente 0 habilidades defensivas (nem se atreva a considerar o corpo de pedra como "defensivo") e que baseiam sua força em habilidades puramente ofensivas, eu não posso não vejo nada de ruim nisso. Afinal, tudo que você precisa fazer é resistir a um atordoamento e 2 acertar um bloqueio, coisa que é muito fácil de fazer com uma classe capaz de obter 40% a mais de força do nada. Não se esqueça de que o BD é antes um tanque e não um causador de danos. Vamos até justificar que "eles não têm nenhuma outra habilidade para causar dano" (coisa da qual eu discordo totalmente), mas tenha em mente que eles pagam 0 para obter tal potencial. Você não pode contrariar isso de forma alguma, especialmente com uma classe que pode ' 

 

 

Não, de novo, não. Porque essas classes não são as mesmas e a mesma habilidade pode ter um impacto diferente se dada a uma classe diferente. 

 

 

Para fazer isso, você precisa selecionar seus dados de acordo com critérios objetivos. Como não temos nada parecido, qualquer escolha que você fizer seria a decisão errada. O único tipo de seleção que você pode tentar fazer é o impacto em muitos cenários versus muitos e, eventualmente, decidir respondendo a esta pergunta simples: "o que a contraparte tem para colocar uma espécie de equilíbrio?" Ou "há uma maneira de neutralizar essa habilidade?" (Sim ... apenas se afaste disso ...) 

"A contraparte tem classes que podem resistir a essa habilidade?" (Sim, é verdade. BD, Mage, Warden ...)

 

elf side has no defensive ability.
where it can strip 80% or by 1% of the enemy's area defense.
most debuff skills are on single target

 

people have to understand, what are in great evidence are skills in the area.
skills you can change, towards the battles GVG AND WAR

[Khrone 464]

3 minutes ago, Dono da verdade said:

elf side has no defensive ability.

Seriously? 

 

[Higgings 1609]

4 hours ago, Dono da verdade said:

elf side has no defensive ability.

 

Do we play the same game?

[TheCaster 263]

On 5/25/2021 at 3:53 AM, Dono da verdade said:

elf side has no defensive ability.

I would like to order a batch of whatever cookies you had this morning, oh kind sir.