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Weapons & Parry?


CraZe
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So I have read all the forums on which is better for rogues, 2 swords or 2 daggers. And even then I couldn't come up with an answer. So ill just do my own testing when I reach max level. But my question to you all now is, which combo is best for PvE while im leveling up? 2 swords, 2 daggers or 1 of each? Im just looking to maximising my dps. And my other question is, is it wise to imply parry into a rogues stats? Because I see there also alot of controversy over that as well. Please help and give me your explanation :3

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Every weapon have same dps if those items are same set or their item lvl is same. Like +10 sudden doom dagger's dps is same as blade's dps. Also build dodge because parry only works in close combat and over 75% of players in game use ranged classes :)

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To be able to deal the highest damage in all situations use Sword on main hand and Dagger on offhand, it will have higher damage than 2 Rondels but slightly lower speed, and lower damage than 2 Swords but way faster speed, that kinda explains why it's the best.

 

Do not enchant parry on anything, just use a cape or a weapon with parry on it.

I would prefer Blade of Sudden Doom, if not then use Abyss Zealot's cloak. 2% Parry is enough unlike Dodge which must be stacked up to 25%+ to be effective due to accuracy cutting it.

 

Don't use a weapon without accuracy, if you are planning to maximize DPS then you better get around 18% accuracy and keep your critical % above 20. Don't focus on speed much, you won't be needing it. The Sword + Dagger combo gives enough natural speed you need. And stacking on speed sacrifices other stats which could be more useful, like 5-10% critical and etc plus it is not effective since there are no good weapons with speed on them.

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I did a test with 3lvl weapons. The highest dps is with 2x daggers, Less dps has 1xdagger and 1x sword and the least dps has 2x swords.

 

 

You can say that results would be different with amp and enchant you may be right.

 

Pro tip: Don't buy 2x Scout Dildo-banana gladius. Get 2x Scout kris or 1x each if you don't plan to buy SD.

 

 

 

For sd I don't know shit.

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You forgot to note that lv3 sword and dagger probably have 1 digit damage difference, and yes, amp damage scaling also changes this, especially if you have +9 sword and +8 dagger vs +9 dagger and +8 dagger. This is exactly why I changed to sword cause I didn't think I would ever get a +10 Rondel of Sudden doom or both +9 Rondels.

 

Just looking at it you can easily tell Sword and Dagger would do the most dps.

2 daggers speed would get wasted cause power skill resets the swing timer. ( This is why 2 swords is very bad and does worse dps than other 2 combinations )

If it was in PvP, no doubts sword and dagger does the best dps.

 

Wait, did you base it on the ingame dps thing? That is so wrong to base how much maximum dps you'd do cause it's only for normal hits.

To calculate the most accurate max dps you must do dps rotation for around 1 minute on a mob, add up all the damage you caused and calculate that into damage per second.

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You forgot to note that lv3 sword and dagger probably have 1 digit damage difference, and yes, amp damage scaling also changes this, especially if you have +9 sword and +8 dagger vs +9 dagger and +8 dagger. This is exactly why I changed to sword cause I didn't think I would ever get a +10 Rondel of Sudden doom or both +9 Rondels.

 

Just looking at it you can easily tell Sword and Dagger would do the most dps.

2 daggers speed would get wasted cause power skill resets the swing timer. ( This is why 2 swords is very bad and does worse dps than other 2 combinations )

If it was in PvP, no doubts sword and dagger does the best dps.

 

Wait, did you base it on the ingame dps thing? That is so wrong to base how much maximum dps you'd do cause it's only for normal hits.

To calculate the most accurate max dps you must do dps rotation for around 1 minute on a mob, add up all the damage you caused and calculate that into damage per second.,

 

 

Yep, you're right on all the aspects of your point. Shitzo has it all figured it out. All hail Shitzo. Sword + Dagger is best.

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My lv14 rogie has both on lv5

I would say dodge is better than kick in the back, since dodge is a self buff and kick in the back is single target.

lv5 dodge adds 6% dodge, kick in the back reduces accuracy pretty much to nothing at lv5.

Again, I would say dodge is better, but they work better together.

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It depends on the situation.

Let me explain how they go first.

 

Kick in the Back - Places a debuff on your enemy which reduces their accuracy to 0% (for now) for a number of attack/s or skill/s, the debuff has a duration itself, meaning if your enemy does not attack during that duration then the debuff will be gone.

At level 1 it lasts for 1 attack or skill of the enemy and the debuffs duration is 2 seconds, increases by 1 attack or skill and 2 seconds per level.

 

Dodge - Gives you a buff that increases your Dodge by a certain %.

At lv1 it gives 5% Dodge and lasts for 20 seconds (not sure with this though), it increases by 1% and 5 second duration per level.

 

Ok, so, since Kick in the Back is a single target skill, it only affects one person, then it would be a bad against 3 or more people.

Dodge doesn't give as much chance to dodge comparing to Kick in the Back but it affects anyone who attacks you.

 

 

If you ask me, Kick in the Back is better.

Unlike Kick in the Back which reduces enemy's accuracy to 0% for a number of attacks, Dodge only increases by 1% per skill study, which is low. Only study dodge for the duration, it gives +5 seconds per study, so you won't need to keep spamming it or be afraid of getting stunned before you get to reactivate dodge.

 

The average accuracy of an enemy is 15%, meaning lv3 Kick in the Back would technically give you 15% more dodge for 3 attacks or skills of the enemy, unlike lv3 Dodge which gives only +8% dodge ( 5% at level one, so it's only a 3% increase ) for 35 seconds, meaning Kick in the Back is more effective.

 

But Kick in the Back lasts for a short time unlike Dodge

That is true -- but, Rogues have Gouge and Stealth which must be used anytime possible. This will allow you to regenerate HP & MP and wait for your cooldowns. Meaning you can Kick in the Back lv3 someone and gain a big chance to Dodge for 3 of his attacks or skills then immediately Gouge, Stealth and wait for it to cooldown and engage again.

 

Although Kick in the Back may sound so good that you'd want to max it, I would suggest to keep it lv3 because sometimes you wouldn't even use the 4th or 5th one cause you would Gouge the enemy and Stealth away to get control of the fight.

And as useless as leveling Dodge may sound, it is also good to keep it at lv2 or 3 to add up on duration. This way if Dodge is 3 seconds away off cooldown and someone stuns you then Dodge buff goes off, it would still be up, since lv1 lasts for 20 seconds and it has a second cooldown (not sure with this but replace the 20 with the real number if mistaken and all is good).

Maxing Dodge may also be an option, getting extra 5% and having around 50 seconds of Dodge may also be good. Although it sacrifices other skill points and Rogue really needs that damage and Stealth duration.

 

 

 

tl;dr - Kick in the Back is better than Dodge.

Explanation is up.

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Thanks again everybody. You helped me out so much! My ingame name is Fastfwd on US Sapphire,  so feel free to add me. I am also looking for a guild :)

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Thanks again everybody. You helped me out so much! My ingame name is Fastfwd on US Sapphire,  so feel free to add me. I am also looking for a guild :)

 

Ironically, all the people who posted above are playing in EU server :D
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Well if you can afford i'd use another skill setup for levelling. Eg. 5 merc and what ever else you feel like. Then you can change to whatever skill setup you want. Ofc Book of Oblivion is required.

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2 gladius

Опубликованное фото

 

485 on 2 weapons that hit every 2 seconds, with the attack speed of 10%, making one hit every 1.8 seconds.

it says DPS is 200? when it actually is 269.4 .

 

 

2 krises

Опубликованное фото

 

417 on 2 weapons that hit every 1.7 seconds, with the attack speed of 10%, making one hit every 1.5~1.6 seconds. (depending on warspear code)

it says DPS is 202.4? when it actually is 278 if 1.5 is the one used or 260.6 if 1.6 is used.

 

 

2 rondels

Опубликованное фото

 

440 on 2 weapons that hit every 1.7 seconds, with the attack speed of 10%, making one hit every 1.5~1.6 seconds. (depending on warspear code)

it says DPS is 213.5? when it actually is 293.3 if 1.5 is the one used or 275 if 1.6 is used.

 

 

mix gladius/rondel

Опубликованное фото

 

 

Arena gear used*

 

So what exactly is happening here?

Bad code only to calculate the DPS of Rogues/BDs? cause every other char seens to have the DPS calculated correctly.

or actually they do not hit at the said weapon speed?

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So what exactly is happening here?

Bad code only to calculate the DPS of Rogues/BDs? cause every other char seens to have the DPS calculated correctly.

or actually they do not hit at the said weapon speed?

 

dps, damage and speed are 3 different things, yo

 

edit: omg you wrote stuff on the pic, I didnt see, sorry.

Wait, let me think and search for the formula, brb

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I'll explain the formula further: Two swords are in the formula that was quoted above. Swords are 2.0 swing speed so ((2000-x)+(2000-x))/1.34 where x is your speed stat. Two daggers would be ((1700-x)+(1700-x))/1.34So if your speed is 10% for both your swing speed is: 2835 or 2.835 swings per second for two swords. Or 2388 or 2.388 swings per second with dagger. For example I use sword dagger and have 10% speed. My formula is ((2000-100)-(1700-100))/1.34So my swing speed is 2.611.  My attack power is 491.  So my dps is 491/2.6=188 dps.  Remember this doesn't count your damage from your skill attacks.  Those are on a fixed timer which puts swords over the top.

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That DPS is only counted for continuous normal hits only. Most skills reset the swing timer. Power skills scale on the amount of damage you have, this extra damage will stack continuously.

 

So if you are hitting 450 Merciless strike with daggers then do 500 with blade and dagger, every Merciless hit you do with blade dagger will do 50 more damage than dagger's Merciless in overall dps, 100 if it's a critical hit. And every Merciless strike you do will reset the swing timer, making hardly any difference between the amount of hits you do with sword and dagger vs 2 daggers. Unless you are talking about PvE where you are attacking something like Demonologist, then you will probably get 1 extra hit after the 2 normals following Merciless.

 

Normal > Merciless > Normal > Normal > Merciless is the fastest rotation iirc, dagger could get an extra hit right before the last Merciless, but not always in PvP and most would Gouge after the Normal hit after the first  Merciless.

 

Not really sure since I can't test anything anymore. But I definitely did ALOT more DPS when I switched from 2 Daggers to Sword and dagger.

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Yup. I use sword + dagger on rogue, 2 swords on bd.

basically, 2 swords = more dps skill-wise

sword + dagger = more dps in normal hits

 

But your end result will also depend on other stats, like atk spd and penetration. And I say this because different weapons come with different stats.

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ah nice  :clapping:

 

thnks for sharing this formula, i will be seeing a few things more clearly now in the game.

 

since it wasnt exposed in game, i was sure it would be something as simple as (weapon1speed + weapon2speed) / 2 to calculate how long it takes for each hit on the enemy.

 

i obviously was mistaken  :blush:

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  • 2 weeks later...

dps, damage and speed are 3 different things, yo

 

edit: omg you wrote stuff on the pic, I didnt see, sorry.

Wait, let me think and search for the formula, brb

 

 

They are but theoreticaly if u take ur dmge and divide it by your dps u can get normal swing atack speed 

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