vavavi

It's been a topic for a while that a new system to transfer guild leadership is needed. As far as i know, it's in the works, but there has been no word about how it would work. Either way, it would have to be a system thats not easily abused, would be forgiving enough for just being busy and one that would not lead to scams by a random leader being selected. So, my suggestion is a voting system. 
 
A fair way to even start the process would be needed. Someone being busy for 2 weeks and losing a guild they've worked on for years isn't exactly fair. One way this could be done, is implementing a box, for the lack of a better word, for the leader to sign off on, say, once per month, to confirm they still wish to keep the lead. If this "box" would not be checked after a month, or however long time is seen fit, has passed, the option to start a vote for new leadership would take place.
 
This vote could happen during a week or so, in which the heirs of the guild, could vote for another heir, who, with the majority of votes, would receive the leadership. This would not only prevent scams, but also allow the members of the guild to choose a person, that they see fit, to take on that role. 
 
 

It's been a topic for a while that a new system to transfer guild leadership is needed. As far as i know, it's in the works, but there has been no word about how it would work. Either way, it would have to be a system thats not easily abused, would be forgiving enough for just being busy and one that would not lead to scams by a random leader being selected. So, my suggestion is a voting system. 
 
A fair way to even start the process would be needed. Someone being busy for 2 weeks and losing a guild they've worked on for years isn't exactly fair. One way this could be done, is implementing a box, for the lack of a better word, for the leader to sign off on, say, once per month, to confirm they still wish to keep the lead. If this "box" would not be checked after a month, or however long time is seen fit, has passed, the option to start a vote for new leadership would take place.
 
This vote could happen during a week or so, in which the heirs of the guild, could vote for another heir, who, with the majority of votes, would receive the leadership. This would not only prevent scams, but also allow the members of the guild to choose a person, that they see fit, to take on that role. 
 
 

It's been a topic for a while that a new system to transfer guild leadership is needed. As far as i know, it's in the works, but there has been no word about how it would work. Either way, it would have to be a system thats not easily abused, would be forgiving enough for just being busy and one that would not lead to scams by a random leader being selected. So, my suggestion is a voting system. 
 
A fair way to even start the process would be needed. Someone being busy for 2 weeks and losing a guild they've worked on for years isn't exactly fair. One way this could be done, is implementing a box, for the lack of a better word, for the leader to sign off on, say, once per month, to confirm they still wish to keep the lead. If this "box" would not be checked after a month, or however long time is seen fit, has passed, the option to start a vote for new leadership would take place.
 
This vote could happen during a week or so, in which the heirs of the guild, could vote for another heir, who, with the majority of votes, would receive the leadership. This would not only prevent scams, but also allow the members of the guild to choose a person, that they see fit, to take on that role. 
 
 

As someone who's pro "For the legion" and plays sentinels, I believe the relic shouldn't make the charmer be something it's not, like a damage dealer, if it's ment to be a "tank healing support hybrid" or whatever, it's supposed to be like how the devs designed it for full stop. I know everyone wants balance but finding a bug or a loophole and taking advantage of that isn't setting a balance, even tho only ppl who spends money on the game can do that currently. So I'm down with the idea about the devs fixing this problem and my legion brothers who wants a balanced game should too.

This is just ignoring the whole point either on purpose or by just not understanding. The problem isn't the description, it's how strong the relic is when paired with call. For every other skill that it can be used on, it isn't a problem, whether or not it works exactly as the description says.
 
For example, hamstring, you get 3 crits on a low damage bleed skill, that will have a cooldown after. Ok, thats not bad but not broken.
 
Druids bees same deal, you get crits on a low dmg DoT skill, once again, decent, not broken.
 
Barbarian, same deal, DoT skill. And same goes for hunter and warlock.
 
For mages and shamans it is a 1 time aoe nuke. 
 
This list goes on for every class, until we arrive at charmer. Instead of it being applied to a one time use skill, it gets applied to a summoned minion, which lingers around, dealing consistent high damage even without crits, and to top it off you can keep 3 of them up permanently. Also this skill happens to be charmers main source of damage, which is now, you guessed it, doubled.
 
And this pairing is the problem. Call is a completely different type of skill from every other skill that this relic can be used on. Creating a unique situation where the skill/relic pairing is simply broken and unbalanced. 
 
Hopefully this clears up any confusions, and allows you to take part in the conversation with a proper understanding of the problem at hand!

Feel like you're either missing the point completely or ignoring it on purpose. This isn't about losing raid bosses, or using wrong parties, it's about what that relic does and it being absurd. It's not theory, and it's not just there raid bosses, the relic simoly just does straight up double charmers main damage. I don't know how many times i have to point this out until you accept thats what i'm trying to say.
 
Yes, nobody complained before. That doesn't mean it wasn't a problem before, just means raid bosses highlighted a problem, that existed way before them, but went unnoticed.

Good explanation, you show all the mechanics and the differences of each one, but they do see it only that they do what they do not understand on purpose, because it suits them that a class that is very empowered like the charmer is a destroyer both in pvp and pve
 
on other characters it works as it should on the charmer it doesn't
better read the skills and parameters again before you are focused on armor, I think we should all be reading this

Energy Regeneration: 84 In combat 42, with Shamans 4/4 Energy Field arounds this isnt a problem, and charmer doesnt need spend skills like stuns is only bird dogs sellect target. Physical Damage Calculator FAKE: 1099 Physical Damage game REAL: 1232 +10 Amplification + Accesories No% Without Buffs Now look this exageration
 
Critical Hit: 23.6% + 20% (Ally Staff Charmer for those Shield Charmer) = 43.6% vv Read vv Critical Hit: 23.6% + 25% (Charmer Staff) = 48.6%  
 
Accuracy: 25.7% + 35% = 60.7% Max Accu is 50% Penetration: 30.1% + 20% = 50.1% Max is 50% CD 36.7% CD 36.7% + 30% (Shaman Energy Field 4/4) = 66.7%  
Rage: 37% only need pots for increase this Another dmg method

He hasn't said a word about bosses. He never said bosses have to work the same way. 
 
Charmer's supposed to be a jack of all trades (and a master of none). Currently, a single relic (with the help of a boss' mechanic) lets it surpass in terms of damage every other class; classes designed to deal damage in a short ammount of time, eventually helped with stats and mermen gears. Be that as it may, independently if such build charmers are using is cheap or expensive, it's incorrect and unbalanced seeing 5 charmers being capable to win a damage dealer class (I repeat: designed to deal damage) thanks to a single relic. If it had been a simple incorrect description, it would have been corrected by now. 

This is just ignoring the whole point either on purpose or by just not understanding. The problem isn't the description, it's how strong the relic is when paired with call. For every other skill that it can be used on, it isn't a problem, whether or not it works exactly as the description says.
 
For example, hamstring, you get 3 crits on a low damage bleed skill, that will have a cooldown after. Ok, thats not bad but not broken.
 
Druids bees same deal, you get crits on a low dmg DoT skill, once again, decent, not broken.
 
Barbarian, same deal, DoT skill. And same goes for hunter and warlock.
 
For mages and shamans it is a 1 time aoe nuke. 
 
This list goes on for every class, until we arrive at charmer. Instead of it being applied to a one time use skill, it gets applied to a summoned minion, which lingers around, dealing consistent high damage even without crits, and to top it off you can keep 3 of them up permanently. Also this skill happens to be charmers main source of damage, which is now, you guessed it, doubled.
 
And this pairing is the problem. Call is a completely different type of skill from every other skill that this relic can be used on. Creating a unique situation where the skill/relic pairing is simply broken and unbalanced. 
 
Hopefully this clears up any confusions, and allows you to take part in the conversation with a proper understanding of the problem at hand!

This is just ignoring the whole point either on purpose or by just not understanding. The problem isn't the description, it's how strong the relic is when paired with call. For every other skill that it can be used on, it isn't a problem, whether or not it works exactly as the description says.
 
For example, hamstring, you get 3 crits on a low damage bleed skill, that will have a cooldown after. Ok, thats not bad but not broken.
 
Druids bees same deal, you get crits on a low dmg DoT skill, once again, decent, not broken.
 
Barbarian, same deal, DoT skill. And same goes for hunter and warlock.
 
For mages and shamans it is a 1 time aoe nuke. 
 
This list goes on for every class, until we arrive at charmer. Instead of it being applied to a one time use skill, it gets applied to a summoned minion, which lingers around, dealing consistent high damage even without crits, and to top it off you can keep 3 of them up permanently. Also this skill happens to be charmers main source of damage, which is now, you guessed it, doubled.
 
And this pairing is the problem. Call is a completely different type of skill from every other skill that this relic can be used on. Creating a unique situation where the skill/relic pairing is simply broken and unbalanced. 
 
Hopefully this clears up any confusions, and allows you to take part in the conversation with a proper understanding of the problem at hand!

This is just ignoring the whole point either on purpose or by just not understanding. The problem isn't the description, it's how strong the relic is when paired with call. For every other skill that it can be used on, it isn't a problem, whether or not it works exactly as the description says.
 
For example, hamstring, you get 3 crits on a low damage bleed skill, that will have a cooldown after. Ok, thats not bad but not broken.
 
Druids bees same deal, you get crits on a low dmg DoT skill, once again, decent, not broken.
 
Barbarian, same deal, DoT skill. And same goes for hunter and warlock.
 
For mages and shamans it is a 1 time aoe nuke. 
 
This list goes on for every class, until we arrive at charmer. Instead of it being applied to a one time use skill, it gets applied to a summoned minion, which lingers around, dealing consistent high damage even without crits, and to top it off you can keep 3 of them up permanently. Also this skill happens to be charmers main source of damage, which is now, you guessed it, doubled.
 
And this pairing is the problem. Call is a completely different type of skill from every other skill that this relic can be used on. Creating a unique situation where the skill/relic pairing is simply broken and unbalanced. 
 
Hopefully this clears up any confusions, and allows you to take part in the conversation with a proper understanding of the problem at hand!

Well most likely the problem is that charmers skill ”call” is different in mechanic than any other skill that uses this relic. Call can be used whenever to spawn dogs and the exact moment rage is activated they start critting with 100% chance where other classes need to use skill with this relic when rage is already in effect to get the relic working which is how its supposed to work. Charmers are fine as they are just the relic needs adjustment nobody in their right mind would think that giving any class a relic to practically double their damage output is reasonable.

There is no other relic, for any class, in the game, that can instantly double your dmg output. Even the few second ones dont come close to that. So saying it's about builds or relics is kind of irrelevant, when thats the case literally on only one class, by one relic, in the whole game.
 
It's not just the raid boss that is the issue, those just highlighted an existing problem. Building a char properly also applies to every char, yet no other char has access to a relic that just gives you double damage.A single relic should never do that. Even power of blades gives only 30%, and only on autos, for a cost and ppl still say its op. Then theres this relic, doing triple that with 0 cost.
 
Rage gears costing "millions" makes no sense to use as an argument. An attack strength book costs 5mil+, and gives you 4%. This relic is equal to, are you ready? 25 OF THOSE 5MIL BOOKS. The couple mil it takes to get some rage gears and pop a pot to abuse a broken relic doesn't make it less broken.

Charmers are completely fine. They're a nice all around class that can switch builds accordingly. Could even say one of the most balanced and well designed classes.
 
The but is a single relic, which to other classes gives a 1 time crit, essentially doubling the whole dmg output of the class. It is in practice the same as getting a 100% dmg boost book.
 
Even that could somehow be fine, if it worked the same way for every class. However, only class it does this to is charmer. Same relic which gives hamstring 500 extra dmg, or mages 1 time crit nuke, instantly doubles the whole damage output of a class. A single relic. You can't defend that, its absurd. 
 
You can see how absurd it is by nobody even attempting to defend it, instead deflecting the conversation to people "crying" or something else having been busted. 
 
I'd love to see anyone come up with an actual argument trying to justify one relic doubling a whole classes damage.
 
Even the best books, gears, builds, nothing comes close to what that relic is doing. It is just absurd, and probably something that was overlooked.

20 replies and yet this fact about said relic is being dodged constantly. The same old "but x class does this" or "but person y complained about this before", instead of even trying to address the relic itself.
 
It's like having 2,5 bds old POBs active, with no cost. A skill that was widely considered broken and in need of a fix, which it deservingly got. It was almost universally agreed that this change was needed. Why is something over twice as strong not deserving of that same treatment? 
 

20 replies and yet this fact about said relic is being dodged constantly. The same old "but x class does this" or "but person y complained about this before", instead of even trying to address the relic itself.
 
It's like having 2,5 bds old POBs active, with no cost. A skill that was widely considered broken and in need of a fix, which it deservingly got. It was almost universally agreed that this change was needed. Why is something over twice as strong not deserving of that same treatment? 
 

Charmers are completely fine. They're a nice all around class that can switch builds accordingly. Could even say one of the most balanced and well designed classes.
 
The but is a single relic, which to other classes gives a 1 time crit, essentially doubling the whole dmg output of the class. It is in practice the same as getting a 100% dmg boost book.
 
Even that could somehow be fine, if it worked the same way for every class. However, only class it does this to is charmer. Same relic which gives hamstring 500 extra dmg, or mages 1 time crit nuke, instantly doubles the whole damage output of a class. A single relic. You can't defend that, its absurd. 
 
You can see how absurd it is by nobody even attempting to defend it, instead deflecting the conversation to people "crying" or something else having been busted. 
 
I'd love to see anyone come up with an actual argument trying to justify one relic doubling a whole classes damage.
 
Even the best books, gears, builds, nothing comes close to what that relic is doing. It is just absurd, and probably something that was overlooked.

Charmers are completely fine. They're a nice all around class that can switch builds accordingly. Could even say one of the most balanced and well designed classes.
 
The but is a single relic, which to other classes gives a 1 time crit, essentially doubling the whole dmg output of the class. It is in practice the same as getting a 100% dmg boost book.
 
Even that could somehow be fine, if it worked the same way for every class. However, only class it does this to is charmer. Same relic which gives hamstring 500 extra dmg, or mages 1 time crit nuke, instantly doubles the whole damage output of a class. A single relic. You can't defend that, its absurd. 
 
You can see how absurd it is by nobody even attempting to defend it, instead deflecting the conversation to people "crying" or something else having been busted. 
 
I'd love to see anyone come up with an actual argument trying to justify one relic doubling a whole classes damage.
 
Even the best books, gears, builds, nothing comes close to what that relic is doing. It is just absurd, and probably something that was overlooked.

Charmers are completely fine. They're a nice all around class that can switch builds accordingly. Could even say one of the most balanced and well designed classes.
 
The but is a single relic, which to other classes gives a 1 time crit, essentially doubling the whole dmg output of the class. It is in practice the same as getting a 100% dmg boost book.
 
Even that could somehow be fine, if it worked the same way for every class. However, only class it does this to is charmer. Same relic which gives hamstring 500 extra dmg, or mages 1 time crit nuke, instantly doubles the whole damage output of a class. A single relic. You can't defend that, its absurd. 
 
You can see how absurd it is by nobody even attempting to defend it, instead deflecting the conversation to people "crying" or something else having been busted. 
 
I'd love to see anyone come up with an actual argument trying to justify one relic doubling a whole classes damage.
 
Even the best books, gears, builds, nothing comes close to what that relic is doing. It is just absurd, and probably something that was overlooked.

Charmers are completely fine. They're a nice all around class that can switch builds accordingly. Could even say one of the most balanced and well designed classes.
 
The but is a single relic, which to other classes gives a 1 time crit, essentially doubling the whole dmg output of the class. It is in practice the same as getting a 100% dmg boost book.
 
Even that could somehow be fine, if it worked the same way for every class. However, only class it does this to is charmer. Same relic which gives hamstring 500 extra dmg, or mages 1 time crit nuke, instantly doubles the whole damage output of a class. A single relic. You can't defend that, its absurd. 
 
You can see how absurd it is by nobody even attempting to defend it, instead deflecting the conversation to people "crying" or something else having been busted. 
 
I'd love to see anyone come up with an actual argument trying to justify one relic doubling a whole classes damage.
 
Even the best books, gears, builds, nothing comes close to what that relic is doing. It is just absurd, and probably something that was overlooked.

Charmers themselves are fine. Don't need any nerfs tbh. What however does deserve a change is a single relic permanently doubling the dmg output of a single class. While functioning completely differently on every other one.