Here's how to make Rogue playable 2024 (Rebalance)

[Shax 56]

Hello devs, fellow rogues. Rebalance is a month away and with that, I'm gonna discuss what rogue class actually needs and highlight its weak points so far. 

 

-Since the start of the game, Rogue was famous for "dodging" and "doing massive dmg". However along the years, this class has without a doubt went downhill and stopped living to its potential especially in the "dodge" aspect. Having got the most discussions out of every class on the official server on discord.

 

It's clear people are NOT happy with rogue

 

So how do you fix this class?

 

Major weak point to this class:

 

● Survivability 

 

 

*Dodge skill: Increase duration of skill back to 15 secs.

 

*Kick in the back (rework): the skill now throws a smoke bomb in nearby area that decrease accu by 35% and atk speed by 15% to up to 3 enemies. At 4/4

 

*Absolute reflexes (needs urgent fix): Idea 1: Skill now doesn't give atk speed or dodge buff instead it gives guaranteed dodge stacks each successful dodges. Each 2 successful dodges = 1 guaranteed dodge stack.

3 stacks max every 6 secs.

 

Idea 2: Skill now reduce dmg by 5% each successful dodge but no more than 20% dmg reduction. After hitting 20% it lasts for 5 secs and reset the buff. 

 

  Other skills:

 

*Extermination skill (optional): increase atk speed buffs for swords and daggers by 2%, and cd by 5% for axes. Or just let it give flat 20% atk speed and 20cd to any wep type.

 

*Poisonous blades: Decrease animation time (for the love of god) skill now deal dot dmg and heal 4% of player hp each successful auto or skill dmg, no more than 20%. (Means trickiest skill no longer heals player)

 

 

  Talents

 

*Thirst for murder: the skill now additionally increase the rage by 10% when enemy's hp is lower than 50%.

 

*Shadow veil (stealth talent) the skill now doesn't keep dmg buff and instead increase resistance parameter to 10% for 3 secs after character leaves stealth.

 

  Lastly, i would like to shed light that 3 of rogues branches are about dmg, would you please rework 1 of them to be survivability one. For example a key branch talent would be called:

 

*Absolute resistance: the rogue class is able to remove 1 debuff each 4 successful dodges. The 5th dodge also removes 1 additional control. (Kinda like rangers talent). 

 

To summarize: rogue lacks in survivability aspect mostly. Increase dodge duration to 15 secs, rework Absolute reflex to be a solid defensive skill, rework kick in the back to be a aoe skill, let rogue have some sort of resistance to controls and a better quicker heal from poisonous and rework/buff few talents.

 

That is it- This is exactly how you make rogue viable in today's warspear, players have been dying to see this class rise again, its quite embarrassing that it has been in the forgotten land for so long, it's almost like a bug in the game that hasn't been fixed lol

 

Thank you all for reading- share your thoughts below

 

 

Edited December 10, 2023 by Shax
Fixed some suggestions to be more appropriate

[Marshemllo 1]

Well i think better rogue dmg become so high i mean im as a player has 50+ resli those rogues +9 hit me 4k - 5k and dodge is too much + the heal stun rogue endless 

[Shax 56]

12 hours ago, Marshemllo said:

Well i think better rogue dmg become so high i mean im as a player has 50+ resli those rogues +9 hit me 4k - 5k and dodge is too much + the heal stun rogue endless 

Not even seeker hit 5k on a 50% resil player, Refrain from exaggerating to make your point.

 

Rogue's dmg is not crazy at all, it's only the talent that x2 your auto dmg with a 25% chance. Which seeker and reaper has yet they have better survivability than rogue 

 

Rogue is the only melee class that doesn't have a stable defense skill, every melee class has a shield/dmg reduction yet rogues only defense is a dodge that is based on luck. It makes no sense to not give it one, rogue is not a ranged class, it can't get closer without getting stunned to death. And it has to get closer to the enemy which it cant do also since it doesn't even have a resistance skill lol

 

 

Edited November 10, 2023 by Shax

[vavavi 240]

50% resist is a ridiculous idea, rogues would be running around with resist buffs literally unstunnable, just to stealth again and repeat it.

 

Imagine a unstunnable class that can appear from thin air, hit 4k autos on full awarded ppl, which has 100% resist, heals, has maxed out dodge, and can disappear from a fight at any given moment.

[Shax 56]

5 hours ago, vavavi said:

50% resist is a ridiculous idea, rogues would be running around with resist buffs literally unstunnable, just to stealth again and repeat it.

 

Imagine a unstunnable class that can appear from thin air, hit 4k autos on full awarded ppl, which has 100% resist, heals, has maxed out dodge, and can disappear from a fight at any given moment.

You're thinking that every buff suggestion will be added, these are suggestion and although majority of them are needed for this class, most likely not all will be added. Not to mention that people need to take these numbers with a grain of salt. Devs dont just copy suggestion numbers and add them instead they do tests and figure out what would be most balanced. For instance 50% resistance coming out of stealth will not be broken at all if that was the only buff it got along with something else but if every suggestion was added, probably would be best to tone those numbers down

 

 

[vavavi 240]

2 hours ago, Shax said:

You're thinking that every buff suggestion will be added, these are suggestion and although majority of them are needed for this class, most likely not all will be added. Not to mention that people need to take these numbers with a grain of salt. Devs dont just copy suggestion numbers and add them instead they do tests and figure out what would be most balanced. For instance 50% resistance coming out of stealth will not be broken at all if that was the only buff it got along with something else but if every suggestion was added, probably would be best to tone those numbers down

 

 

50% is extremely broken even by itself lol.

[Shax 56]

14 hours ago, vavavi said:

50% is extremely broken even by itself lol.

So you're telling me bd can have a resist skill on demand, while having a shield and a dmg reduction and a way nicer heal skill, but a rogue class with no defensive skill whatsoever can't have 50% resist coming out of stealth for 3 SECS? lmao how is that broken in your head???

 

do u realize seeker has better tank abilities, bigger dmg output, invisibility, more speed yet have resistance out of stealth? 

[vavavi 240]

4 hours ago, Shax said:

So you're telling me bd can have a resist skill on demand, while having a shield and a dmg reduction and a way nicer heal skill, but a rogue class with no defensive skill whatsoever can't have 50% resist coming out of stealth for 3 SECS? lmao how is that broken in your head???

 

do u realize seeker has better tank abilities, bigger dmg output, invisibility, more speed yet have resistance out of stealth? 

Seekers issues aren't relevant to this. Also their resist is only 8%, while lacking any ranged attacks, which rogue has 3 of, one of which is a stun. Also they don't gain any damage from their stealth, while rogue does.

 

50% would be broken because it would end in a cycle of coming out of stealth, being resist buffed to near 100%, and being able to stealth back with barely any time for anybody to do anything to cc the rogue.

 

Complete immunity to cc like that on a extremely high damage class that can come in and out of stealth is a massive issue. The 8% seeker has is already a problem when buffed. 50% is complete overkill.

[Shax 56]

17 minutes ago, vavavi said:

Seekers issues aren't relevant to this. Also their resist is only 8%, while lacking any ranged attacks, which rogue has 3 of, one of which is a stun. Also they don't gain any damage from their stealth, while rogue does.

 

50% would be broken because it would end in a cycle of coming out of stealth, being resist buffed to near 100%, and being able to stealth back with barely any time for anybody to do anything to cc the rogue.

 

Complete immunity to cc like that on a extremely high damage class that can come in and out of stealth is a massive issue. The 8% seeker has is already a problem when buffed. 50% is complete overkill.

Here u go, 28% resist just from these bad boys for seeker, + small talents that buffs that resistance even more lets just round them up 30%, if they use buffs that's easily 60%+ resistance. This is while having tanking/ arguably #1 dmger and better speed than rogue. But clearly according to ur knowledgeable opinion 50% resist for a measly 3 secs for rogue would be bad 

 

Keep it up though you guys are doing a good job showing devs with these smart opinions why rogue deserve the buffs it need lol

 

 

[Shax 56]

Some drop of reality for any dev reading this if its not obvious enough:

 

Rogue: 0 stable defense skill, 0 pick for group activities, 0 party support. 0 resistance.

 

Seeker: #1 dmger arguably, broken tank shield, max speed, resistance.

 

Blade dancer: top dmger, broken shield, parry, heavy armor, resistance skill, dmg reduction skill

 

 

This is sincerely a clown game if rogue doesn't get massively reworked and buffed

[vavavi 240]

20 minutes ago, Shax said:

Here u go, 28% resist just from these bad boys for seeker, + small talents that buffs that resistance even more lets just round them up 30%, if they use buffs that's easily 60%+ resistance. This is while having tanking/ arguably #1 dmger and better speed than rogue. But clearly according to ur knowledgeable opinion 50% resist for a measly 3 secs for rogue would be bad 

 

Keep it up though you guys are doing a good job showing devs with these smart opinions why rogue deserve the buffs it need lol

 

 

For that resist buff on pull seeker would have to lose 30% of its damage. Sure if rogue got 30% dmg taken away for 20% resist for a bit that would be fine. What you we're suggesting here was a raw 50%, yes, 50%, nearly DOUBLE of those 2 combined, with no downside. More reasonable would be for rogue to lose stealth dmg buff completely, even on the first hit, in exchange for 20% resist. That would be in line with your example.

 

Side note:

For a seeker to even activate both at the same time, you'd have to come out of stealth, then jump, and then start doing damage, giving up another stun and majority duration of the 8% buff. While also losing 30% dmg.

Edited November 15, 2023 by vavavi

[Theweasel 161]

I dunno why we talk that rogues need a good defensive skill, and ppl still highlighning the damage... 

 

Man.. fvck damage, defense DEFENSEEE, i wouldn't  care trading the stealth dmg buff for damage reduction, or if gm plan to leave dodge, at least, make it GREAT for rogues, which is the ONLY class that is supposed to take advantage of it goddamnit.. 

 

The current dodge is NOT good for rogues, stop being stuck in the warspear of 2014, stop basing the class with old videos of rogues 

 

[Shax 56]

vvv

Edited November 16, 2023 by Shax

[Sepic 1]

Rogue need survivability

[Joy Boy Abunda 3]

Rogue lack of damage in pvp and you want

Really taking away the damage of veil and put resistance? Is this a joke? 

 

The veil should 100% retain damage for 6 seconds. Not that ugly resistance 

 

You should go play cheiftain bro if you want resistance.

[Shax 56]

On 11/23/2023 at 10:47 AM, Joy Boy Abunda said:

Rogue lack of damage in pvp and you want

Really taking away the damage of veil and put resistance? Is this a joke? 

 

The veil should 100% retain damage for 6 seconds. Not that ugly resistance 

 

You should go play cheiftain bro if you want resistance.

Rogue is a melee class, just like any other, it needs some type of resistance. Its 2024 soon and this class is so outdated it lacks every defense and resistance capabilities. This was a suggestion to increase its defense and to compensate for it, reduce some dmg. 

 

Check my reply to your own suggestion to understand more 

[Shax 56]

Update: After careful consideration and thought process, I've regulated some of my suggestions and numbers to be more realistic- 

 

On 11/15/2023 at 9:24 PM, vavavi said:

50%, nearly DOUBLE of those 2 combined, with no downside. More reasonable would be for rogue to lose stealth dmg buff completely, even on the first hit, in exchange for 20% resist. That would be in line with your example.

 I've gave it enough thought to realize that was a bit broken to suggest,  what you suggested would be more ideal, the 20% resist in exchange for the dmg buff i would be okay with personally, or atleast a trade-off in a talent branch where people can still choose if they want the dmg with no resistance or more resistance but less dmg.

[Theweasel 161]

Personally i wouldnt trade the damage buff for resistance, is a terrible idea.

Specially because is resistance, no one need it in pve, so its purely pvp feature.

And well u know the pvp is not the only content in this game.

In addition, damage from veil is waaay more useful Both in pvp and pve.

 

I still think it needs some form of damage mitigation that isn't merely luck-based

Or if devs is not planning something for rogues, then  the kick in the back  skill shouldn't be nullified, resisted, evaded, in any way if they really hope the rogues survive by dodging

[Axetricks 42]

9 hours ago, Shax said:

 I've gave it enough thought to realize that was a bit broken to suggest,  what you suggested would be more ideal, the 20% resist in exchange for the dmg buff i would be okay with personally, or atleast a trade-off in a talent branch where people can still choose if they want the dmg with no resistance or more resistance but less dmg.

Seekers got 4 buffs on their stealth (movement speed in stealth, stun, movement speed after stealth and resist after stealth), I don’t know why would you want to exchange 1 from the 2 buffs that rogues have in stealth, to match them. Just add another buff with lower %. Like 6% resist for example. Also that damage buff rogues have allows them to have around the same damage as a seeker for first few seconds, removing that would make even bigger of a diff between them

Edited December 10, 2023 by Axetricks

[omr 5]

On 11/9/2023 at 6:10 PM, Shax said:

 

On 11/9/2023 at 6:10 PM, Shax said:

 

*Shadow veil (stealth talent) the skill now doesn't keep dmg buff and instead increase resistance parameter to 10% for 3 secs after character leaves stealth.

Bro why 3s with that seeker after the disappearance he have 8% for 6s and however, keep the speed of movement 

 

  And u say instead dmg for 10% resist for 3s just are you okay today 

 

It's supposed to be like seeker 6s without removing it dmg to

Edited December 10, 2023 by omr

[Shax 56]

15 hours ago, Theweasel said:

Personally i wouldnt trade the damage buff for resistance, is a terrible idea.

Specially because is resistance, no one need it in pve, so its purely pvp feature.

And well u know the pvp is not the only content in this game.

In addition, damage from veil is waaay more useful Both in pvp and pve.

Not the dmg from stealth i meant but from the 25% dmg from shadow veil.

For 20% resistance its a good trade off because resistance is also necessary for pve lol, alot of the new content and mobs lately have controls and rogue has 0 resistance and no survivability.

Dodge is unreliable since its luck based so some resistance is needed so rogue can function well in terms of survivability both in pve and pvp

[Shax 56]

8 hours ago, Axetricks said:

Seekers got 4 buffs on their stealth (movement speed in stealth, stun, movement speed after stealth and resist after stealth), I don’t know why would you want to exchange 1 from the 2 buffs that rogues have in stealth, to match them. Just add another buff with lower %. Like 6% resist for example. Also that damage buff rogues have allows them to have around the same damage as a seeker for first few seconds, removing that would make even bigger of a diff between them

Resistance is needed more than ever for rogue now, and although i agree that it would be nice to have more than just dmg buffs and resistance from stealth, it would seems broken to some people as seeker is broken in itself and will most likely get a nerf so comparing the two is irrelevant if it gets nerfed

 

If it doesn't get nerfed then rogue respectively needs another buff from stealth like atleast 10% resistance and maybe something else. I also think people need to keep in mind that if reflexes would get a buff and becomes a stable defense skill then you can see how all these buffs would make rogue a bit broken to some people so its a matter of waiting and seeing which buffs will be added to then analyze and see which to remove/replace or add. 

 

[Shax 56]

4 hours ago, omr said:

It's supposed to be like seeker 6s without removing it dmg to

Yes seeker has a 6s of resistance and movement speed after stealth but remember that rogue will most likely have a buff from reflex and becomes strong defensively so i think rogue having only 3 secs worth of some resistance 10% perhaps is ideal. If rogue doesn't get buffed defensively then i would agree that rogue needs more duration like 6 secs and more like 20% resistance 

[Axetricks 42]

31 minutes ago, Shax said:

Resistance is needed more than ever for rogue now, and although i agree that it would be nice to have more than just dmg buffs and resistance from stealth, it would seems broken to some people as seeker is broken in itself and will most likely get a nerf so comparing the two is irrelevant if it gets nerfed

 

If it doesn't get nerfed then rogue respectively needs another buff from stealth like atleast 10% resistance and maybe something else. I also think people need to keep in mind that if reflexes would get a buff and becomes a stable defense skill then you can see how all these buffs would make rogue a bit broken to some people so its a matter of waiting and seeing which buffs will be added to then analyze and see which to remove/replace or add. 

 

Well I understand what you mean but I would still think that flat 20% for 3 sec either can make the life a bit too “easy“ for rogues in some situations, and could be called broken but isn’t as constant as having lower % lasting for 6 seconds and which would already be a little buff very welcomed for rogue. Also what I should have added about that damage that rogue gets from stealths passive is, it allows him to have around the same damage burst as every damage dealers these days and even some bruisers (bd, reaper, or even dmg barb in some degree). That 25% from Veil means more than 200 damage for 6 seconds which isn’t something to laugh at. I also think that seekers aren’t broken due to their stealth so they can keep their 4 buffs but we should have at least one more. I also think that removing the Veil effect but add 10% of resist for 3 sec is actually a nerf. Just my opinion tho