Ikafati 148 Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 (edited) The idea is fine, the implementation, unsurprisingly, is not. While it barely helps in PvE, it completely screws some builds over. You can have 0.1% retribution and you're already making people buy Oblivion Books. Considering how desperate you guys are to try and push different unique builds, this needs a fix ASAP and not on some random bug fix which will happen in a month (or never) 1. Stone Skin - Denies the stacks and the skill entirely, rendering it useless against other players with Retribution runes 2. Reflexes - Denies the stacks and the skill entirely, rendering it useless against other players with Retribution runes 3. Lightning Shield - Triggers the skill from receiving 1 damage, which is dumb 4. Counterstrike - Triggers the skill, making this stupidly overpowered skill and class even more broken 5. Forest Song - If you have a DoT ability damaging your enemy, but you're under the Forest Song effect, the skill effect is broken 6. Nightmare - If you have a DoT ability damaging your enemy, but you're under the Nightmare effect, the skill effect is broken 7. Relaxation - Denies the passive skill entirely, rendering it useless against other players with Retribution runes Oh, and a suggestion, obviously. The % of damage reflextion on armors and runes gets bigger but only procs from basic attacks Edited January 6, 2016 by Shil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mailliwdxb 86 Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 The idea is fine, the implementation, unsurprisingly, is not. While it barely helps in PvE, it completely screws some builds over. You can have 0.1% retribution and you're already making people buy Oblivion Books. Considering how desperate you guys are to try and push different unique builds, this needs a fix ASAP and not on some random bug fix which will happen in a month (or never) 1. Last Wish - Denies the stacks and the skill entirely, rendering it useless against other players with Retribution runes 2. Reflexes - Denies the stacks and the skill entirely, rendering it useless against other players with Retribution runes 3. Lightning Shield - Triggers the skill from receiving 1 damage, which is dumb 4. Bitterness - Denies the stacks and the skill entirely, rendering it useless against other players with Retribution runes 5. Counterstrike - Triggers the skill, making this stupidly overpowered skill and class even more broken 6. Forest Song - If you have a DoT ability damaging your enemy, but you're under the Forest Song effect, the skill effect is broken 7. Nightmare - If you have a DoT ability damaging your enemy, but you're under the Nightmare effect, the skill effect is broken Oh, and a suggestion, obviously. The % of damage reflextion on armors and runes gets bigger but only procs from basic attacks Nightmare doesn't break Counter strike doesn't activate Same goes for lightning shield Retribution is a counter for stone skin and reflex.. Refer to my points on the other stone skill vs retribution topic. They did this on purpose becuase the skills were leaning towards the unfair side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ikafati 148 Posted January 3, 2016 Author Share Posted January 3, 2016 Nightmare doesn't break Counter strike doesn't activate Same goes for lightning shield Retribution is a counter for stone skin and reflex.. Refer to my points on the other stone skill vs retribution topic. They did this on purpose becuase the skills were leaning towards the unfair side. Nightmare can be broken. For example, you're a paladin who's under a Nightmare effect and you damage the necro with your banner Counter Strike procs from retribution for sure, so since Counter Strike and Lightning Shield can proc each other, I assumed that same problem goes for both. Also, what's the point to implement skills in the first place if they're "leaning towards unfair side"? Implementing a skill and then giving literally everyone a 100% counter to it is plain retarded Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCocktail 181 Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 should be a "possibility to reflect full dmg" rather than "reflection of the dmg of the given percentage" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nabnecro 304 Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 I tested with necromancer vs warlock and it didn't break the nightmare with dot reflect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nabnecro 304 Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 (edited) but if all the other cases are true, it needs to be changed to a special type of damage that doesn't get computed by skills. also it is very useful for PvE, if your tank is using retribution, all the mobs stay behind faster. Edited January 4, 2016 by nabnecro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladiator 1150 Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 also it is very useful for PvE, if your tank is using retribution, all the mobs stay behind faster.True, but I still won't sacrifice block in my shield or parry in my mace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mailliwdxb 86 Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 Nightmare can be broken. For example, you're a paladin who's under a Nightmare effect and you damage the necro with your banner Counter Strike procs from retribution for sure, so since Counter Strike and Lightning Shield can proc each other, I assumed that same problem goes for both. Also, what's the point to implement skills in the first place if they're "leaning towards unfair side"? Implementing a skill and then giving literally everyone a 100% counter to it is plain retarded They were intended as pve skill Devs aren't the ones to change something over pvp reasons Those skills aren't fair and increase survivability of classes with amazing damage output Nightmare doesn't break nor does it proc counter/shaman shield, I've tested it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cybernem 157 Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 Maili is like thank god now I can stun rogues Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mailliwdxb 86 Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 Maili is like thank god now I can stun rogues If i stun the rogue/barb can't attack. My build is not meant for retribution. The skills give both rogues and barbs an upper edge versus a dk even after retribution. All my stuns bypass reflex and stone skin.. Dmg doesn't xD Retribution is fair and i say this with no other motive other than for the sake of balance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vavavi 240 Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 Its dumb that one rune can destroy new skill of 3 classes completely. And redemption reflects from totem for example, making it impossible to song a target during totem on a druid with redemption Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boiz 10 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 Lol they give mcs (barb and rogue) good skills, only to f uck them up in the next update. Déjà vu? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mailliwdxb 86 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 Its dumb that one rune can destroy new skill of 3 classes completely. And redemption reflects from totem for example, making it impossible to song a target during totem on a druid with redemption 3 stacks to 2 is what i notice. It doesn't render the skills useless becuase of the time it takes to regain the stack. The skills were balanced without its pve effect being nerfed devs did a good job and the rune was just what was needed. Stack speed almost negates the rune itself the skills are unfair and a rune to negate 1/3rd of it is actually lesser than what i expected considering they negate all damage. Just don't use forest when a dot is on you, simple.. Or don't use the rune at all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nabnecro 304 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 correction: It does break nightmare. Tested with shaman and paladin banner. it doesn't break with warlock dot because they don't even activate reflect. Already removed this shitty rune from my necro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mailliwdxb 86 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 correction: It does break nightmare. Tested with shaman and paladin banner. it doesn't break with warlock dot because they don't even activate reflect. Already removed this shitty rune from my necro.Easiest option ^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ikafati 148 Posted January 5, 2016 Author Share Posted January 5, 2016 How is implementing a skill and making it unusable with 1 single item can be called balance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mailliwdxb 86 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 How is implementing a skill and making it unusable with 1 single item can be called balance? Unusable in what scenario? Skill stacks faster than retribution hits Unfair skill -> perfect nerf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ikafati 148 Posted January 6, 2016 Author Share Posted January 6, 2016 (edited) Unusable in what scenario? Skill stacks faster than retribution hits Unfair skill -> perfect nerf How can something stack faster when every attack you make gets reflected? It's the same as saying "you can easily catch something that you throw ahead of you as hard as you can" Also, asking again, what's the point of implementing the skill if 1 item kills it? Maybe let's give everyone a skill that gives them 10 million damage, but make it disappear if you move. Because you know, unfair skill -> perfect nerf Edited January 6, 2016 by Shil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mailliwdxb 86 Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 (edited) Game is turn based so 3 stacks gets reduced to 2/1 via retribution, the last two or one stacks will be able to deflect dmg from the opponent. Would you prefer it if dmg/dodge resistance was nerfed to the point that the fixed dmg amount that can be taken per stack was being reduced? Instead of nerfing it's pve value they nerfed its pvp by a third. Simple eh? Summary : retribution doesn't remove all stacks the remaining ones are bound to reflect opponent dmg. Be happy it didn't get a massive dmg nerf Edited January 6, 2016 by mailliwdxb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ikafati 148 Posted January 6, 2016 Author Share Posted January 6, 2016 (edited) Game is turn based so 3 stacks gets reduced to 2/1 via retribution, the last two or one stacks will be able to deflect dmg from the opponent. Would you prefer it if dmg/dodge resistance was nerfed to the point that the fixed dmg amount that can be taken per stack was being reduced? Instead of nerfing it's pve value they nerfed its pvp by a third. Simple eh? Summary : retribution doesn't remove all stacks the remaining ones are bound to reflect opponent dmg. Be happy it didn't get a massive dmg nerf Oh, so you're saying that, let's say, Stone Skin is SUPPOSED to only be active for the first 2 attacks that I make because of this great balancing logic of yours, after that I must not generate anymore stacks and literally waste 3 skill points. Summary: You're just drooling random pointless math, and just talking bullshit in general. You clearly don't even know what balance is or at least what type of game you're playing Edited January 6, 2016 by Shil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mailliwdxb 86 Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 You don't get my point Stone skin or reflex stacks as fast as you'd be able to hit Practically I've seen one handed barbs be able to negate dmg even when their opponent uses retribution, so yes i believe that when retribution hits only one of the 3 stacks get used up but the rest two or one still do get used up blocking the opponents hit And these very same people complain about bd being op when they have skills that negate dmg completely, pathetic. If you wanted retribution to not affect stacks then nerf stack cd to 15 seconds or stack resistance/dodge only blocks 50% of the dmg Btw retribution hit = indirect basic hit from the grey color.. So yeah don't expect changes any time soon And dont get so aggressive so fast, your skill still works in pve like a charm, works just as it should Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cybernem 157 Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 Stone skin or reflex stacks as fast as you'd be able to hit > dk stun cycle does the same. Nerf? (At least you are not stunned) You're still not giving even one good point, just pointless posts which makes zero sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mailliwdxb 86 Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 Stone skin or reflex stacks as fast as you'd be able to hit > dk stun cycle does the same. Nerf? (At least you are not stunned) You're still not giving even one good point, just pointless posts which makes zero sense. Skills that negate dmg complete -> Nerf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ikafati 148 Posted January 6, 2016 Author Share Posted January 6, 2016 (edited) Mali, Stone Skin doesn't even have 3 stacks and it already has a 15s cooldown at 1/4. Even at 4/4, your stacks are consumed by retribution, rendering the skill useless. You could just use auto attacks and no skills, your stacks would be wasted anyway Edited January 6, 2016 by Shil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vavavi 240 Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 Reflex has 10 sec between charges at 4/4. Thats a bit more than 1 hit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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