Toad Sage

This is why I haven't posted my next suggestions yet and turned out I was right. They indeed did something in relation to Almahad that changes the game in general just like what they did last year.
 
Apparently they really want rogue to spam skills. Unless rogue's skills get reworked, more efficient energy use and more cd won't help rogue because really, we have tried cd rogue before and it sucks. Also, most rogues will say 40% cd is all a rogue need and this number is easy to get even with 2 daggers at level 34.
 
Also, the dollar-store counterattack talent that we get seems to be their interpretation of our Shadow Clone idea. So that we can still damage enemies when we are stunned. But it relies on dodge now and what is with that 3 sec cooldown? Did they forget how much we hated how useless the old reflexes was with 2 sec cooldown?
 
But I think at this point they are done until rebalance. We must work on next suggestions based on the informations we have until now. If they won't change the new talents for rogue, they must change the current skills rogue has so that spamming them gets us some benefit to compete.

Ofc I expected you to say this thing and not less. But it will stay 6/10 until I know what they hold for rebalance. I will gladly reevaluate my rating but giving it better rating without the context of rebalance is risky even if some talent is 9-10/10 during test server one can't give that rating during the test server.
 
It will be 2/10 without the 2 worrying things I mentioned because 40% of physical damage is straight up killing daggers for rogue. 6/10 if they keep the 2 things. 9/10 is if the talent has shorter gap between effect. 10/10 is impossible to achieve in practical gameplay. During test server, maybe.

We need more solo content for real, i dont want to look for people for like hours to make a party especially in Dead MC side servers like EU and US

I have also tested it and I am so afraid to say that even tho Bee Sting seems like minor improvement (tbf all others are too), they may nerf it after this.
 
The talent's reflected damage seems to be ignoring dodge, block, and parry, maybe I just haven't tested often enough but that's my impression so far.
 
Another thing is the damage reflection seems to interact with Stunning parameter. You can stun enemy by just dodging.
 
This seems like Devs' interpretation of our Shadow Clone idea. So that we can counter damage and counter control even just by using dodge. But I am afraid they will nerf it to make it even more insignificant. Because to me it is like 6/10, and this number seems to be too good for Rogue, knowing the history of our nerfs. Hopefully I am at least wrong about the possibility of nerf. And I wish they buff rogue more during rebalance to fix the remaining issues.
 
Blade Potential is still a big question mark. Yes, it is an improvement but it is like installing turbo in a bicycle. It doesnt make you go faster and surely we can say it doesn't cost more gas.
 
Hopefully more testers will include their results here. And I really want to be wrong about the usefulness of Blade Potential. It has potential in its name.

It's sarcasm bro. Nobody so far thinks these buffs make sense for rogue

Right. Even with MM we don't really add extra regen or at least we don't add much especially after bracelets update. I think damage buff permanent skill sounds decent.
 
My take from this spoiler is:
 
1. They reconsider our lack of resist causing us to become vegetables in battlefield so they add a passive ability to damage enemy before we die even when we are stunned to death;
 
2. They reconsider our impractical damage buff from (assuming it is possible ofc) repeatedly using stealth which takes up to 4 sec of 0 damage output before the 1 click + 6 sec buff.
 
Hopefully the next part will give more clarity but for now I don't want to waste energy guessing how this is gonna go. If they did work on the 2 points I mentioned, then they did listen to our feedbacks regardless of how they implement the solution.

I have also tested it and I am so afraid to say that even tho Bee Sting seems like minor improvement (tbf all others are too), they may nerf it after this.
 
The talent's reflected damage seems to be ignoring dodge, block, and parry, maybe I just haven't tested often enough but that's my impression so far.
 
Another thing is the damage reflection seems to interact with Stunning parameter. You can stun enemy by just dodging.
 
This seems like Devs' interpretation of our Shadow Clone idea. So that we can counter damage and counter control even just by using dodge. But I am afraid they will nerf it to make it even more insignificant. Because to me it is like 6/10, and this number seems to be too good for Rogue, knowing the history of our nerfs. Hopefully I am at least wrong about the possibility of nerf. And I wish they buff rogue more during rebalance to fix the remaining issues.
 
Blade Potential is still a big question mark. Yes, it is an improvement but it is like installing turbo in a bicycle. It doesnt make you go faster and surely we can say it doesn't cost more gas.
 
Hopefully more testers will include their results here. And I really want to be wrong about the usefulness of Blade Potential. It has potential in its name.

It's sarcasm bro. Nobody so far thinks these buffs make sense for rogue

It's sarcasm bro. Nobody so far thinks these buffs make sense for rogue

It's sarcasm bro. Nobody so far thinks these buffs make sense for rogue

Right. Even with MM we don't really add extra regen or at least we don't add much especially after bracelets update. I think damage buff permanent skill sounds decent.
 
My take from this spoiler is:
 
1. They reconsider our lack of resist causing us to become vegetables in battlefield so they add a passive ability to damage enemy before we die even when we are stunned to death;
 
2. They reconsider our impractical damage buff from (assuming it is possible ofc) repeatedly using stealth which takes up to 4 sec of 0 damage output before the 1 click + 6 sec buff.
 
Hopefully the next part will give more clarity but for now I don't want to waste energy guessing how this is gonna go. If they did work on the 2 points I mentioned, then they did listen to our feedbacks regardless of how they implement the solution.

This is why I haven't posted my next suggestions yet and turned out I was right. They indeed did something in relation to Almahad that changes the game in general just like what they did last year.
 
Apparently they really want rogue to spam skills. Unless rogue's skills get reworked, more efficient energy use and more cd won't help rogue because really, we have tried cd rogue before and it sucks. Also, most rogues will say 40% cd is all a rogue need and this number is easy to get even with 2 daggers at level 34.
 
Also, the dollar-store counterattack talent that we get seems to be their interpretation of our Shadow Clone idea. So that we can still damage enemies when we are stunned. But it relies on dodge now and what is with that 3 sec cooldown? Did they forget how much we hated how useless the old reflexes was with 2 sec cooldown?
 
But I think at this point they are done until rebalance. We must work on next suggestions based on the informations we have until now. If they won't change the new talents for rogue, they must change the current skills rogue has so that spamming them gets us some benefit to compete.

Juliovmz is right.Think of a 2v2 match. Let the team on one side be 2 seekers.When one of the seekers attacks a target by stuning it first and the other seeker attacks the same target by stuning it at the end of the stun, this is not called 2v2. 1 player from the opposing team is eliminated from the game from the beginning.Moreover, it is a fact that seekers have very strong damage and it will not take 2 seconds for 2 seekers to attack the same target in turn and destroy the target.

Ainda quase final de 2024, tem esse problema.
 
Primeiro erro de tudo sendo sincero, apesar da compra e venda de prata e conta de personagens ser proibida, existe muita vontade SK sendo vendida. Por isso tem um número grande de sk Full book e talento no jogo e não tomam ban.
 
Segundo. O problema continua o mesmo de "não consigo me defender do que não consigo ver" e de "não consigo revidar do que me dá stum infinito".
 
É bem chato o fato dessa classe( quase todas classes elfos) ter um stum absurdo com dano absurdo.
Como revida disso quando você é um personagem papel? Mesmo Necro com dois escudo e escudo venenoso toma IK para eles.
 
Tem que ter um balanceamento aí, leva em consideração o que falei de que SK é muito comprado pelas vendas proibidas e são fortes demais , ao menos nerfar o invisível deles ou esse stum para ter uma chance de defesa.

Honestly seekers disappearance stun is bringing them a soft combo cuz to apply stun need to do an basic attack.
 
Rogues cannot cuz the reaction between skills are like 1.5 sec , and it sometimes (for some reason) it stucks and dont even attack even with basics attack, you  have to untarget to Make it react.
 
I think adding the flurry stun to elusive jump is an interesting idea, it will not fix the rogues but at least will bring them a faster combo.
 
i mean... Stun someone from away and then walks to them  is... weird...
 
If elusive jump also had a stun effect , you will do a faster work with  approaching, And disarm someone at same time.. Thats cool

Rogue currently is the easiest class to counter, having close to no resistance and defense, you'd have to be a literal moron to not know how to kill it.
We've established stealth doesn't protect from cc and pretty much anything nowadays gets you out of it. Long range stun skill (flurry) 50% of the times doesn't stun due to most classes resisting it, and thats not all, the issue is for all ranged classes when they are actually stunned by flurry, Rogue just cannot combo due to the fact it has to walk to them. While the stun is finished & they can just keep creating distance and spamming cc, (here you learn why resistance is suggested often for rogue)
 
You also start to notice why seeker is designed better for this job:
 
-Seeker can walk fast to continue those combos.
-it applies slow movement effect. (now they are more easier to catch)
-Can drag the enemy to them.
-it's equipped with decent resistance to protect from that cc. 
 
Its a no brainer, seeker is built right for that job, and this is just one flaw of rogue, which is supposed to be agile and taking out these ranged classes. this topic aims exactly to alleviate this flaw 

Fixed it for you 

"Have you tried, um, not be depressed? You can do it by increasing your built in dopamine production in your body. Don't ask for anything outside of you. Use what you have effectively and smartly."

Here is the thing about fallacy tho, you won't notice that you are making one. That's why it's hard to spot. They are literally the same thing. "Just don't get controlled and focus on damaging enemy".
 
Example Priest: our heal only heals 200 hp no matter what we change. It's too low
 
Vava: you can use your controls and keep putting your enemy in cc or keep walking away if you fight melee. That way you can spam the 200 hp heal while not getting hit.
 
Yes, in theory, a priest can put the enemy in control effect without gap, yes, priest can walk away from melee and keep hitting. These are truth just like the way we can hide from enemy (for 2 sec), but this way you don't adress what they are complaining about which is a ridiculuously small amount of heal. And ofc you also didn't address our problem which is non-existant option to protect ourselves from cc. Stealth is the equivalent of moving away for the priest with 200 hp heal. They need more heal. We need more protection from cc on top of what we have.
 
Anyway, we don't want that nor did I suggest such buff for rogue. Because for seekers, 8% resist works with their resist mode. It's you who kept bringing up stealth. And I made you say that seekers have their resist, we have our damage. That's why stealth is not a cc solution. It's not like using stealth to overcome cc was our idea lol. It was yours.
 
Also, if we only get that 8% resist without the resist mode, we are scammed because we won't have option to have 28% resist. If we ask for resist mode, it's making rogue class a seeker. And it will not solve the problem in community where rogue is declining to extinction. If rogue is exactly the same as seeker, those who play seeker will not bat an eye at rogue. Because no difference anyway.
 

This is the final straw for me. I will respond for the last time.
 
But first, don't forget, you came here, out of nowhere, saying we wanted reaper or bd's damage while being able to stealth. Which was completely wrong and can't even be extracted from anything I said. All I did was responding to Pawned. It doesn't need to have anything to do with what Vava said because I wasn't talking to him. You can keep going in circle, defending Vava as if I was talking to him but it doesn't matter. I wasn't talking to him when I mentioned reaper and bd and seeker. Just admit you were wrong saying what you initially came here for.
 
Then, both seeker and rogue have damage buff. For rogue, it is in their stealth. Seekers have their own damage buff. Now seekers have solution for control but rogue class doesn't. You can't say seeker has solution for control, rogue has solution for damage. It's stupid as if I don't know the reality. And this is false dichotomy level of stupidity. Either you are a genius to use this or the polar opposite of that to fall for it.
 
Seeker has both solution to increase damage and fight control. At least I can argue with absolute certainty they can switch between the two. I can partly argue they can have both with some weaknesses.
 
Rogue only has solution to increase damage. Nothing to choose from. No option to fight control.
 
THIS is what we are arguing and it is Vava who keeps bringing argument about stealth with Seeker's vanish in his mind. We don't have the responsibility to defend that argument lol. It's his idea that stealth can be used to fight control. I just pointed out that yeah maybe that's the case for seeker but not for rogue.
 
And in your other response, you are so tied to this "change stealth so that it gives resistance instead of damage" that is not our idea lol. If our stealth is changed that way, should we also be given 20% resist after we use jump? And in other key talent, should we be given 30% damage bonus in exchange with hp? Just make rogue a seeker class at that point. Because 8% resist in Vanish is just a tiny bit of what seekers have. And yes, it is control solution for seeker. But it is not the ONLY control solution they have.
 
Also, why would we sacrifice our damage buff just to get a tiny bit of seeker's perk? Seekers can keep their damage buffs on top of having resist mode even tho they need to switch to activate either one. Why should we not have damage buff at all to get 8% resist? Isn't that evil intention?
 
Back to the comparison, is seeker better than rogue in this particular comparison? YES. They have both. No need to be in general every aspect comparison. If we compare how complete seeker in this aspect, they are absolutely better than rogue who only has damage buff.
 
I will stop responding to you man, sorry. You either can't read or you are here to troll by pretending to always perfectly misunderstand. And don't forget your initial statement.
 
You said we want reaper and bd damage while being able to stealth because I *keep* talking about them.
 
Where is that point now? Shifted everywhere except that. You said many things but admitting you misunderstood.
 
And about the data you brought, you CLEARLY forgot, misunderstood, or tried to shift from my argument. We talked about surveying the number of players active every week in weekly ratings. Maybe numbers of dg, numbers of arena, whatever. Count how many rogue are there.
 
The data you showed wasn't what I talked about in the discussion about players numbers. Rogue are many in that statistic because it doesn't count the active players. It also includes the old rogues who already quit or switch classes. It's undeniable and sad that rogue was once a popular class and now it is facing extinction. Ofc there are many rogue in the statistic because the number of players stay the same. The old rogues just switched classes or quit. And the fact that you shifted to this "data" even tho I clearly mentioned to look at weekly ratings AT THE MOMENT we talked about it, idk, maybe you are either drunk or you do it intentionally so that you can keep denying what I say and keep the argument going. You said you didn't want hooligans yet you are doing this. How sincere. Or maybe it was just your partner who were mistaken and gave you the data which I wasn't talking about. Tell him he was dead wrong.
 
 

This is a suggestion to rearrange skill effects so that we get more efficient skill clicks and a space to add new mechanics.
 
1. Put poison in Flurry;
2. Remove stun effect from Flurry;
3. Add 2.5 sec stun (at all levels) on Jump;
4. Poison skill is now open for reworks (which I won't add here).
 
My commentary:
 
First of all, when we are stunned by ranged enemy or AoE, we ALWAYS have distance disadvantage. And using Flurry on the enemy does not solve the problem because you will have to walk there while Jump skill can't be immediately used due to the mandatory expert skill delay. If you use Jump skill first, you can't stun the enemy making you vulnerable to the next controls once you get to the target.
 
Now with this combination, you save 2 sec delay by not having poison animation. You can throw flurry at enemy, poison them at once, then use Jump. Or you can just use Jump, sacrificing the interaction with poison, but you get to your target while stunning them. The 2.5 sec stun is necessary because after you use Jump, you can't do anything until around 2 sec after the effect. It's massive delay. Unless devs want to buff it by decreasing the delay.
 
This MIGHT help us overcome controls using effective control. I am not saying this should stop here because point 4 is still open if you guys have some suggestions.
 
Last year we have pointed out the problem of Poison skill. It's one too many click and animation for us.
 
If you like this idea, you can use the setup for your future suggestions topic. Or simply reply here so that others can see and discuss it together.
 

This proves that you only read what you want to read here.
 
I was responding to Pawned's reply about his comparison
And I agree that the buff makes our damage like Reaper and BD's base damage for 1 click. Nothing is wrong with how I responded. It doesn't imply anything about superiority nor inferiority. Just in that specific buff, that's how the buff works. It makes our damage comparable to Reaper and BD and Seeker in their +30% damage mode.
 
Now what I want to add is yes, a damage buff MIGHT be a solution for control if we kill everyone in one hit. And if a rogue has reaper or BD's damage without sacrifices permanently, then that damage can solve our problem. But in reality, we don't have that damage and we don't plan to have it. Maybe with some sacrifices, yes, but not free permanent buff like theirs.
 
Therefore I said, the buff doesn't make us reaper or bd in damage. It's a one click buff, and it is a damage buff, it's not relevant to our control problem which is what we are talking here.
 
And then you came with your misunderstanding trying to frame that statement as "oh you saying seeker better than rogue?" Rogue's problem is independent to whether or not seeker is better than rogue.
 
If you find somebody saying that in general sense, deal with that person. Idc. I only care about buffing rogue for now. Can you understand now or should I go another round of spelling out again?
 
Also, for the last time, Vava has seeker's Vanish in his mind. He didn't say that and he wouldn't admit. So I had to extra mile making him say himself that for seeker, they have resist bonus, for us, we have damage bonus. Therefore, seeker's vanish is one of their solutions for control, while rogue's stealth isn't one. It's damage buff.
 
And the fact that he kept bringing up stealth as a solution for control shows that he is talking about a wrong skill.

I love it lol

Like come on, a full blown new content(s) nobody asks for just to compensate for an underperfoming class, a rogue?
 
But even so, when will that happen? The next decade anniversary? Just forget it man you won't even have rogues players anymore if things don't change in the next couple of years. The class doesn't fulfill its function as damage class.
 
Anyway, rogue having damage should not even be a question. Of course we have damage skill, it's our type of class. And with the stun in jump, EVERYTHING STAYS THE SAME except for where the stun is.
 
But I agree it will make rogue less vulnerable, which is our intention.

I love it lol