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problem with reaper


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 1. Healing restriction

image.thumb.png.0c7891e35b920219fcc65a2bf3007cae.png

As far as i know, reaper is the only class in the game where increase your max hp doesnt increase  healing from "Demonic appearance" skill, which should be healing the character for 25% max hp

Suggestion: Make the skill actually heal the character for 25% max hp, which also include %max hp increase from gear, buff etc...

2. Delayed death skill

image.thumb.png.ad32cfc24bd554895a6105f86147bb43.png

Without the "Rise above Death" talent, which remove the "Impending death" debuff once when switch to demonic form, this skill is complete unusable. 80% damage reduction might look good on paper. But when the damage from the debuff come back and kill you, you will realize how bad the skill is. Not only that, the skill doesnt absorb DOT like bleed, poison etc so the  "Rise above Death" wont help removing the damage, making reaper become very vunerable to this type of damage.

Suggestion: Make the skill absorb DOT. When using the skill will also remove the "Impending death" debuff.

3. Revenge skill.

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Easily the worst skill design in the game.  Not only the debuff from the skill can be resisted. Even if the debuff hit, the damage reflected from the skill will be reduced by the delayed death skill. I can even say if you have this skill on your character, you wasted 40k gold for nothing. This skill need a complete rework is all i can suggest atm.

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, mjk4 said:

 1. Healing restriction

image.thumb.png.0c7891e35b920219fcc65a2bf3007cae.png

As far as i know, reaper is the only class in the game where increase your max hp doesnt increase  healing from "Demonic appearance" skill, which should be healing the character for 25% max hp

Suggestion: Make the skill actually heal the character for 25% max hp, which also include %max hp increase from gear, buff etc...

 

The skill doesn't say it's a 25% heal, it is a 25% increase to max hp which in practice also works as an indirect heal. Every % based hp increase skill/buff works this way.

 

9 hours ago, mjk4 said:

2. Delayed death skill

image.thumb.png.ad32cfc24bd554895a6105f86147bb43.png

Without the "Rise above Death" talent, which remove the "Impending death" debuff once when switch to demonic form, this skill is complete unusable. 80% damage reduction might look good on paper. But when the damage from the debuff come back and kill you, you will realize how bad the skill is. Not only that, the skill doesnt absorb DOT like bleed, poison etc so the  "Rise above Death" wont help removing the damage, making reaper become very vunerable to this type of damage.

Suggestion: Make the skill absorb DOT. When using the skill will also remove the "Impending death" debuff.

The ability, even if it is through a talent, to get rid of the DoT effect is insanely powerful by itself. The skill is very tanky with that.

 

Also, for example, let's say a bd does 10k worth of damage to you while you're under the dd buff, which would be turned to 2k dmg by that buff. Does the DoT effect then roll 4x 2k dmg (this being the 8k reduced by the skill), or does this DoT effect roll through your defensive stats again? If the DoT itself is reduced by your resi/heavy mm/def etc, the skill effectively turns into a passive dmg reduction even without the talent, since the dmg you are taking gets reduced by your defensive stats twice. If this is how it works the skill is extremely powerful even without the talent.

 

I'm not 100% sure if this is how it works. Does the DoT effect instead actually roll the 4x 2k as raw damage that isn't affected by your defensive stats? If you're able to clarify this it would be appreciated.

9 hours ago, mjk4 said:

 . Revenge skill.

image.thumb.png.22dbf1d329537053f748f2d664277960.png

Easily the worst skill design in the game.  Not only the debuff from the skill can be resisted. Even if the debuff hit, the damage reflected from the skill will be reduced by the delayed death skill. I can even say if you have this skill on your character, you wasted 40k gold for nothing. This skill need a complete rework is all i can suggest atm.

This skill is AoE though, making it very effective in group fights, even with delayed death active. It's essentially an improved, guaranteed version of bds counter for mass fights. That's hardly useless.

Edited by vavavi
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5 hours ago, vavavi said:

The skill doesn't say it's a 25% heal, it is a 25% increase to max hp which in practice also works as an indirect heal. Every % based hp increase skill/buff works this way.

I would prefer an direct healing effect than increasing health

5 hours ago, vavavi said:

 

The ability, even if it is through a talent, to get rid of the DoT effect is insanely powerful by itself. The skill is very tanky with that.

 

Also, for example, let's say a bd does 10k worth of damage to you while you're under the dd buff, which would be turned to 2k dmg by that buff. Does the DoT effect then roll 4x 2k dmg (this being the 8k reduced by the skill), or does this DoT effect roll through your defensive stats again? If the DoT itself is reduced by your resi/heavy mm/def etc, the skill effectively turns into a passive dmg reduction even without the talent, since the dmg you are taking gets reduced by your defensive stats twice. If this is how it works the skill is extremely powerful even without the talent.

 

I'm not 100% sure if this is how it works. Does the DoT effect instead actually roll the 4x 2k as raw damage that isn't affected by your defensive stats? If you're able to clarify this it would be appreciated.

Talent removes the debuff once, it means if you receive damage after the debuff was removed it will Immediately  start again.

 

Also the more damage you receives the more strong the DoT is gonna be .. Also it starts immediately after using the skill..

 

Lets say you start a fight against a bladedancer, and you start with delayed death to prevent being obliterated, you survive? Yes... Until you start receiving 2k  every 2 seconds plus the constant damage from the bladedancer (in case  he still alive)

You will die in the fight and after the fight .

Tbh it shines so well only on pve cuz you can counter the debuff with vampirism.

5 hours ago, vavavi said:

This skill is AoE though, making it very effective in group fights, even with delayed death active. It's essentially an improved, guaranteed version of bds counter for mass fights. That's hardly useless.

It is useless but not more useless than black mark ( useless, to say it softly) anyway..

 

As it is working now, being aoe doesnt makes it great. Why?

3x3 area (nothing wrong with this, but only the fact that it is an castable area of effect, makes it horrible)

Easily resisted

Under delayed death it doesnt do shit

Too specific effect.. I'll explain:

It applies an debuff on a small area, ONLY those affected ppl have to attack ONLY to the player, it means if and affected player attack any other unit, it will not work..

There is an aditional effect that is not explained on the skill description:

If an affected unit attacks the player ONLY another affected unit will receive damage too, so.. Using this skill on massive fights wont affect nothing  cuz small area fails a lot, cuz can be resisted, cuz if those 3  affected players in the crowd doesnt attack you it simply doesnt work.

 

At least, like the black mark, it works as an Psychological attack :grinning:

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Theweasel said:

 

 

4 hours ago, Theweasel said:

Also the more damage you receives the more strong the DoT is gonna be .. Also it starts immediately after using the skill..

 

Lets say you start a fight against a bladedancer, and you start with delayed death to prevent being obliterated, you survive? Yes... Until you start receiving 2k  every 2 seconds plus the constant damage from the bladedancer (in case  he still alive)

You will die in the fight and after the fight .

Tbh it shines so well only on pve cuz you can counter the debuff with vampirism.

It is useless but not more useless than black mark ( useless, to say it softly) anyway..

Can you explain thjs scenario to me? I'm curious how it works but can't really test it myself since i don't have a reaper.

 

You're a reaper with delayed death active, lets say you have heavy mm/resi gears/good defs, and a bd walks upto you and does the 10k dmg. So with DD you take 2k damage. Now, when the DoT effect starts, how much does it hit you for? Does it do 2k per tick without your defensive stats lowering it? Or 2k which then gets lowered by those defs?

4 hours ago, Theweasel said:

As it is working now, being aoe doesnt makes it great. Why?

3x3 area (nothing wrong with this, but only the fact that it is an castable area of effect, makes it horrible)

Easily resisted

Under delayed death it doesnt do shit

Too specific effect.. I'll explain:

It applies an debuff on a small area, ONLY those affected ppl have to attack ONLY to the player, it means if and affected player attack any other unit, it will not work..

There is an aditional effect that is not explained on the skill description:

If an affected unit attacks the player ONLY another affected unit will receive damage too, so.. Using this skill on massive fights wont affect nothing  cuz small area fails a lot, cuz can be resisted, cuz if those 3  affected players in the crowd doesnt attack you it simply doesnt work.

 

At least, like the black mark, it works as an Psychological attack :grinning:

It's not the strongest skill, but every class has some non meta skills. Thats still a useful thing to have for mass fights

Edited by vavavi
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3 hours ago, vavavi said:

 

Can you explain thjs scenario to me? I'm curious how it works but can't really test it myself since i don't have a reaper.

 

You're a reaper with delayed death active, lets say you have heavy mm/resi gears/good defs, and a bd walks upto you and does the 10k dmg. So with DD you take 2k damage. Now, when the DoT effect starts, how much does it hit you for? Does it do 2k per tick without your defensive stats lowering it? Or 2k which then gets lowered by those defs?

 

The damage debuff depends on how much damage you receiving, it keep increasing the more damage you receives.

It counts your defensive stats only in the moment of receiving damage but not with the delayed death debuff.

 

An good example its the item ( death's  dance) from league of legends

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Posted (edited)
On 6/8/2024 at 4:04 PM, Theweasel said:

An good example its the item ( death's  dance) from league of legends

death's dance is a balance item because it will remove bleed dmg when u kill/assist. Here delayed death just doesnt work in pvp without a support. May not even worth buying if u dont have rise above death talent

 

On 6/8/2024 at 1:59 AM, vavavi said:

This skill is AoE though, making it very effective in group fights, even with delayed death active. It's essentially an improved, guaranteed version of bds counter for mass fights. That's hardly useless.

Lets do the math. Let say a reaper has this skill at 4/4 in mass fight and it hit 5 target.

Reaper receive dmg, only 20% will be counted for the skill because of delayed death skill.

70% of that 20% damage is refected upon enemies = 14% dmg. Divided that by 5 so each target get hit with the debuff receive 2.8% damage.

So if the reaper get hit by a skill that do 3000 dmg, targets under revenge debuff will receive 84 dmg. In pvp max target is 3 so the dmg will be 140 each

 

Edited by Higgings
Just a little adjustment
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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Theweasel said:

The damage debuff depends on how much damage you receiving, it keep increasing the more damage you receives.

It counts your defensive stats only in the moment of receiving damage but not with the delayed death debuff.

 

An good example its the item ( death's  dance) from league of legends

So if you take 10k dmg through your defs during dd buff, it will hit you for 4x 2k damage after it ends? No matter how much def or dmg reduction you have.

 

Sorry if im being repetitive, but I want to make sure i understand how the skill actually works in practice before making any uninformed comments about it.

Edited by vavavi
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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, vavavi said:

So if you take 10k dmg through your defs during dd buff, it will hit you for 4x 2k damage after it ends? No matter how much def or dmg reduction you have.

Not after the damage reduction ends, it starts immediately after use the skill and receive damage.

 

A good explanation for this skill would be:

The skill takes 80% of all received damage  and converts it to DoT.

 

Lets suppose you receive a single shot of 10k damage  under delayed death buff 4/4

You will receive 2k  damage cuz damage reduction, and the 8k ignored damage will Return to you but every 2 sec, that damage ignores your defense, and keeps increasing if you keep receiving damage (it keeps feeding the debuff damage)

 

So, using it on wars/gvg its actually suicide, all those damage from everyone will make delayed death debuff nukes you in  1 tick.

 

Aditionally the delayed death talent just restarts the debuff, only  if you turns into a demon

 

7 hours ago, vavavi said:

 

Sorry if im being repetitive, but I want to make sure i understand how the skill actually works in practice before making any uninformed comments about it.

Its okay Thats cool.

 

Many dont know how to read , ppl just sees the 80% dmg reduction and going like "wHoAh tHe bEsT dEfEnsIvE sKiLl iN tHe gAmE pLs nErF"

 

 Also with the issue with the guaranteed critical blow of anihilation... and you see them crying saying that  the skill ignores the resilence because its applying a critical effect when thats not true, ofc it will crit bcz is GUARANTEED critical hit, but the damage is not doubled (against full resi players)  its just an false critical hit..

 

Sry for that  off topic , hope you understood

Edited by Theweasel
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On 6/8/2024 at 12:02 PM, mjk4 said:

death's dance is a balance item because it will remove bleed dmg when u kill/assist. Here delayed death just doesnt work in pvp without a support. May not even worth buying if u dont have rise above death talent

 

Yea, also death's dance Neutralizes bleeding and heals you if you kill the one who is attacking you

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11 hours ago, LeafAutum said:

The most important problem is reaper s damage fvcking high.The unique class who 100% crit in pvp.

Reapers damage is only high on people lacking resilience. With proper arena gear you will do just fine.

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On 6/9/2024 at 5:41 AM, vavavi said:

So if you take 10k dmg through your defs during dd buff, it will hit you for 4x 2k damage after it ends? No matter how much def or dmg reduction you have.

 

Sorry if im being repetitive, but I want to make sure i understand how the skill actually works in practice before making any uninformed comments about it.

After 2 sec since the first hit you receive, you will get 2k damage. If you receive more damage after that, say another 12k, the next tick will hit you 4k damage. This cycle will continue for the duration of the delayed death effect and the damage per tick will continue to increase as you absorb more damage. It does what the skill says in description tho. It does delay death by 4 sec or so. It is still incredibly flawed and often useless especially for left branch reapers.

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