Paladin Revisited - Food For Thought

[Gladiator 1148]

The game's overall balance might seem all over the place nowadays, which I do think is the case due to a couple of classes (e.g. Chieftain, Reaper, and Beastmaster) and items in the game (Castle potions and Octopus and Orcinus books). But other than that, in my opinion, Paladin is in a pretty good spot in most areas of the game, except in few aspects due to some outdated skills and I'm here to discuss some of these issues.

I do think some of the Paladin's skills need to be revisited, especially Light Defense and Sun Seal. But here I also have a couple of ideas to rework some other skills and talents that can help Paladin fulfill purposes that it already has but very untapped. 
 

 

1. Light Defense

 

In my previous topic analysis of Paladin's defensive skills, I discussed the defensive powers of Inner Force, Light Defense, and Sacred Shield from a neutral perspective. Most notably, I found that Light Defense is a reasonably good defensive skill at level 4/4 in a full party and a stronger skill than Inner Force on a solo-level if the Paladin's HP is higher than 40%. But also that defensive capability is approximately 10% damage reduction, which is weak by all standards of the game (Unless you think about 10% protection to 5 people in GvG). Which is still pretty weak for the 3 skill points, considering that a GvG-situation is not very common. So, since the skill is pretty good with 5 people, but pretty weak below that, I suggest few options to make it better:

 

(Keep in mind, I tried to suggest numbers that make sense but they are just examples and are up for debate)

 

Option 1:

- To make it simpler, make the skill an area spell that casts a buff of a set amount of % damage reduction within it, that also splits among the affected party members:

So at level 4/4, if the skill is affecting ...

5 players, it gives 8% damage reduction

4 players, it gives 10% damage reduction

3 players, it gives 11% damage reduction

2 players, it gives 13% damage reduction

1 player, it gives 15% damage reduction

Spoiler

Lvl3

6%-8%-9%-11%-13%

Lvl2

5%-6%-7%-9%-10%

Lvl1

3%-4%-5%-6%-7%

 

Btw, the % damage reduction affecting 5 people is pretty much what it is right now! (3%-8% Defense) It's pretty bad if not affecting a whole party isn't it.

 

 

 

Option 2:

- Keep it as it is now, maybe reduce its duration or increase its cooldown, and add one of the following additional effects that scale back according to the number of affected allies:

 

• If physical damage is higher than magical damage: Periodic HP% regen for affected party members. For example 5%-6%-8%-10% of Paladin's HP every 10 seconds (Unaffected by any healing modifiers). The value of HP recovered would be split among the affected targets. 
• If magic value is higher than physical: the skill provides periodic debuff cleansing. 1-1-2-2 debuff(s) removal every X amount of seconds. X depends on the number of affected targets: 5 players - 18 seconds, 4 players - 16 seconds, 3 players - 14  seconds, 2 players - 12 seconds, 1 player 10 seconds.

Or

• If using a two-handed weapon: it additionally reflects 6%-7%-9%-12%-15% of the damage dealt to the party members back to the enemy, depending on the affect number of players (5-4-3-2-1)

Spoiler

Lvl4

6%-7%-9%-12%-15%

Lvl3

5%-6%-7%-10%-12%

Lvl2

4%-5%-6%-8%-10%

Lvl1

3%-4%-5%-7%-9%

• If using a one-handed weapon and shield: It additionally increases party members' Resistance parameter by 5%-6%-8%-10%-10% (affected players: 5-4-3-2-1)

Spoiler

Lvl4

5%-6%-8%-10%-10%

Lvl3

3%-5%-7%-8%-8%

Lvl2

3%-4%-5%-6%-7%

Lvl1

2%-3%-4%-5%-5%

 

As I was writing this I kinda realized how hard is it to make a bonus value that is not broken for 1 person that it would still be relevant for 5 people if you divide it by 5... But you get the point, I think the skill should be redesiged in a way that it is not completely useless other than with full party. I'll leave it up to the brilliant devs that figure out.

 

 

2. Sun Seal 

 

Heal effect based on damage dealt (5%-10%-13%-16%) from Sun Seal seems very good on paper. I mean 16% life steal with basically permanent duration? Sign me up! And indeed it was is pretty good in my experience when playing with physical damage weapons in PvE. It helps tank minibosses a lot and serves as nice bonus to your life steal and potentially even replacing the need for it. This is all good and dandy as long as the fight is with a single high HP opponent - a boss. However, it was never possible to gain any value out of it in PvP. Most of the time there are many opponents, most people have heavy mermen that can cleanse the seal debuff, and most people have a high resistance. And even in PvE, dungeon monsters do not have a high enough HP to survive long enough to get the full benefit of the 25 seconds of a 4/4 Sun Seal. Sun Seal is mostly a single target damage dealer skill with average multipliers. It would be great to see a change that better enable that healing aspect of the skill.

 

It should have an additional effect:

- If ally hitting target with seal already has full HP, instead of wasted heals, it transfers the heals to the next party member with lowest HP. 

 

And more importantly for PvE:

- If enemy dies while seal active, depending on remaining seconds of duration, heals all party members around target by 5x5 radius with a certain amount.

For example if there is 10 seconds duration left, it heals 10% of the HP or something like that. In most extreme case if Sun Seal was used as a final blow, it would have 25 seconds left, so 25% of the ally's HP. 

 

And to increase its reliability against bosses and minibosses as it gets resisted by bosses a lot, I also suggest making it irresistible at levels 3-4.

 

3. Shield Strike with magic mace:

 

With the addition of the branch "Bulwark of Faith", one-handed magic mace and shields gained a lot more popularity as it makes Paladin very tanky while maintaining a good level of support. But those builds are the worst in terms of damage, overall, the build lacks that oomph. Now, of course it is not supposed to do that much damage if it is going to be this tanky, but also it should be able to do some damage... It certainly won't break it. 

 

Suggestion:

- Adjust the formula and make the damage scale off of both magic + physical damage instead of just physical damage. Scale back the phyiscal damage part so that the added magic calculation does not significantly increase the current skill damage for normal physical maces with magic sub-stats.

 

 

 

--Extras--

 

Other fixes that are not as a essential. These suggestions have a theme: Magic Paladin as a damage dealer and buffer in PvP.

Let me first say, magic Paladin in PvE is already in great shape at the moment, but let's be honest, in PvP it is extremely underwhelming, it is just a glorified healer that stands there and does nothing but heal and shield, it poses very limited offensive threat to the enemies and ends a up like a loud, annoying bug that does not sting so you wave it away every now and then. All other healers (maybe besides Necromancer) deal a very considerable amounts of damage, are pretty tanky, as well as provide as good, if not better support than Paladin... 

 

 

4. Sacred Shield talent

Right now, it only increases damage against monsters. I don't see why it shouldn't apply in against players too, shield tends to break fast anyway, it's not gonna break the game... It would be a nice little bonus.

 

5. Inner Force rework for two-handed weapons:

 

This one is admittedly a little ambitious, I doubt it's gonna happen since it is a pretty radical change to the skill mechanic, but nothing to lose I guess, so I'll just put it out there:

I always disliked how selfish Inner Force and its talents are. It is good that it makes Paladin a viable tank, however, I think if the Paladin is using two-handed weapons the skill should serve a different purpose that suit the 2-handed weapon better. I also think it can make two-handed magic Paladin a little too tanky especially in PvP, in my opinion. So I think if Paladin is using 2-handed weapons it should not give tankiness but rather it should provide different effects that are rather offensive/offense support.

 

• Inner Force: If using two-handed weapons, it increases physical and magical powers of party members depending on Paladin's missing health: 1% phyiscal and 1.5% magic for every 12%-10%-8%-6% HP missing.
• Talent "External Influence": If using two-handed weapons, increases damage dealt by allies from skills by 1.5% depending on missing health.
• Talent "Unbroken Spirit": If using two-handed weapons, it increases Cooldown instead, +5% and additional 1% depending missing health.

 

 

6. "Reckoning" Talent Branch

 

And finally, to go with the mentioned Inner Force rework, Reckoning talent branch needs an overhaul. It's not a priority since most Paladins already chose a different branch, and rebalancing this branch would take a very long time to see its effect.

What would be great to see if that Aura talent "Everburning Candle" would synergize with the Inner Force rework and much like a candle (implied by the name) The Paladin would "burn and melt" his own HP to provide additional "light" to his allies. 

 

So it would work as following:

- While Light Aura is active, each time a healing effect is received by a party member, the Paladin sacrifices 10% of the healed amount of from his own HP. Every 2 seconds, 100% of the amount of sacrificed HP over the 2 seconds is added to each party member affected by Light Aura (except Paladin). This effect stops if the Paladin is below 40% HP.

Spoiler

For example:

5 Members in party

Priest heals someone by 5000!

Paladin loses 500 HP

Everyone else in party gets 500 HP

 

Extreme example:

5 Members in party

Beastmaster heals everyone 500-1000! x6 (Average of 20k) over 6 seconds

Paladin loses 2000 over 6 seconds

Everyone else gets 2000 over the 6 seconds

 

The same concept could be applied to "Faith Reckoning" by adding a condition that increases the chance of applying the negative effect as the HP decreases. The chance starts with the current 20% at 100% HP, and every 20% HP lost adds 20% chance to activate.

Spoiler

So basically:

100%-80% HP - 20% Chance

80%-60% HP - 40% Chance

60%-40% HP - 60% Chance

40%-20% HP - 80% Chance

20%-00% HP - 100% Chance

 

 

But the idea is to have a legitimate and fleshed out damage/support archetype for Paladin with a 2 handed build that is viable for PvP and PvE. Something that the Paladin already kinda has with Banner but that's it really, and the damage aspect of Paladin in PvP is very overshadowed. Now, I can see the argument that this would make magic Paladin in PvE too good, but come on, is it really gonna be better than Seekers, BDs, Mages, and Beastmasters? I doubt it. Mainly because all of these reworks rely on Paladin being low HP, and typically, 1 Illumination usage with decent Life Steal instantly fills up Palas HP. So I don't think that Paladin is gonna be low HP for a long time to make these additions all that crazy. Keep mind, Pala would lose the damage reduction and healing power from Inner Force and its talent, in fact, due to the "Everburning Candle" talent, not only would the Paladin sacrifice 10% of the party's healing, but also effectively receives 10% less healing himself.

 

 

That's it, whachu think?

Edited November 20, 2023 by Gladiator

[Theweasel 161]

What about replacing accuracy from "light aura" and adds penetration instead?  We can get enough accuracy with  bracelets, we need penetration. 

 

Btw, i like the light defense idea

[Gladiator 1148]

9 hours ago, Lilweasel said:

What about replacing accuracy from "light aura" and adds penetration instead?  We can get enough accuracy with  bracelets, we need penetration. 

I mean that would be nice of course, but i don't mind the accuracy. It's good for higher levels of Almahad, where enemies have very high dodge, with that accu boost, you can build up your accu to reach close to 40%-50% pretty easily.

But even if you don't wanna reach that high, you can get rings and bracelets with HP instead of accuracy for example, and thereby benefit from that boost to make yourself tankier.

[Shboui 6]

What I'm trying to say is, Paladin is really behind of game version. And physics and spell building are disconnected, so you can't switch to magic build while using your physics talents, which will make your banner work no more.

Edited November 20, 2023 by Boshui

[Shboui 6]

For the second branch of the Paladin, I don't think it should be limited to the only option for physical build, and after you choose it, means you can only use physical build, or you will lose the Paladin's soul skill Banner.

 

You might as well give the second branch an additional option to no longer limit the damage calculation of the banner under this branch. The maximum physical damage (base +15%) or magic damage (base + 3x%) is used as the calculated personal damage

 

As for shields, I think we could consider opening up the pvp damage bonus instead of limiting it to pve only. Also, as an option to increase the paladin's damage, consider adding a finishing effect to the shield. When the shield is broken, deal 2x% of the shield loss damage to enemies within 3 yards. I think this shield end damage supplement can increase the damage of the paladin without destroying the positioning of the original auxiliary tank (because it only deals damage after the shield is destroyed).

Edited November 20, 2023 by Boshui

[LeafAutum 2]

9 hours ago, Boshui said:

What I'm trying to say is, Paladin is really behind of game version. And physics and spell building are disconnected, so you can't switch to magic build while using your physics talents, which will make your banner work no more.

And when u choose the physics talent the Divine lightbringer  is become useless.

[Gladiator 1148]

Also, can we buff the base magic of magic one handed maces or maybe increase the enchant value to match the hammer's? I feel like +10 lvl33 mace having only 265 magic while physical maces have 137 seems like too much of small difference when considering +10 phy mace also has 726 physical vs 385 in magic mace.

I just don't get why Paladin has to completely sacrifice any forms of damage to have any sustainable tankiness and support in today's state of the game.

[Staswery 136]

В 18.11.2023 в 13:40, Theweasel сказал:

What about replacing accuracy from "light aura" and adds penetration instead?  We can get enough accuracy with  bracelets, we need penetration. 

no.

[Khrone 648]

On 11/18/2023 at 3:40 PM, Theweasel disse:

What about replacing accuracy from "light aura" and adds penetration instead? 

I think it would be better if it increased Critical Hit instead, since more Critical Hit = more Critical Healings 

 

[ExDoff 8]

I agree with everything you said, the light defense skills, sun seal and repelling strike are well behind the current game. In my opinion, in the past, the sun seal was only useful to combo with the banner, but in the current game, when this combo was removed, the ability became completely useless.
As for the repelling blow, I agree that in the current direction the game is taking, many magical shield paladins are appearing and the paladin with a magical shield is very lacking in damage, so it should have some % of magical damage as well to help the magical paladins, but I think they could also add a second effect to the skill when you are using two-handed weapons because this skill becomes useless if you use a two-handed weapon, and this mechanic already exists in several other skills from other classes, I don't see Why not add it to the paladin's strike as well?