Rogue urgently needs a rework

[Hassanssin 0]

I'm Hassansin from the BR server, I've been playing Rogue for 8 years, and in all these years the rogue class has been taking strong nerfs. The class is based on high evasion and damage, however the developers have been destroying the class completely, let's start with the fundamentals of the rogue that is dodging, The specialist reflex skill is a skill that has become useless, due to its duration and its reactivation time and the base skill "Dodge" has a duration of only 10s, and its recharge time is enormous, these two skills were primordial in the rogue's defense and this defense ceased to exist. About rogue damage the only skill that actually does decent damage is merciless attack and maybe steel flurry. And the icing on the cake is the extermination of the skill that shouldn't be messed with at all. It was a skill that balanced the rogue stats
 and after the change in extermination, you will hardly be able to balance precision, penetration, fast attack, etc. stats efficiently .

 

Edited April 8, 2023 by Hassanssin

[Drakoslayd 646]

Use a smaller text size. 

[ChikxoGSok 3]

If things get too difficult, relax for a few days.  When you come back, look at everything again, find a way to adapt to the new situation.

 If you feel that the neft rogue is too strong that you want to give up, or get bored of playing rogue.

 That's a silly reason.

 When people love something, the difficulty doesn't matter.

 Rogue is a powerful class if you understand it.

 If it's a hammer, which you use to drive a nail, you feel very good.  One day it's sharpened into a little ax, you take it out and nail it, and it feels awful.

 There are 2 options for you.

 1. Find another hammer.

 2. Use for other purposes.

 Rogues or even Reapers are like little axes.  Use the right way, at the right time, in the right way...everything is fine.  Everything has its strengths.

Edited April 11, 2023 by ChikxoGSok
use the wrong language

[nabnecro 304]

Indeed rogue is one of the weakest classes right now. I suggest you make a BD on elf side or change to Barbarian on mc side.

[Shadowmon 82]

18 hours ago, ChikxoGSok said:

If things get too difficult, relax for a few days.  When you come back, look at everything again, find a way to adapt to the new situation.

 If you feel that the neft rogue is too strong that you want to give up, or get bored of playing rogue.

 That's a silly reason.

 When people love something, the difficulty doesn't matter.

 Rogue is a powerful class if you understand it.

 If it's a hammer, which you use to drive a nail, you feel very good.  One day it's sharpened into a little ax, you take it out and nail it, and it feels awful.

 There are 2 options for you.

 1. Find another hammer.

 2. Use for other purposes.

 Rogues or even Reapers are like little axes.  Use the right way, at the right time, in the right way...everything is fine.  Everything has its strengths.

Rogues are not rogues anymore. For endgame content, they're only good for pve for bursting damges.

For gvg? 

 

Rogue: "I have aoe too. RICOCHET!" 

 

 

Sentinels: 

 

Edited April 12, 2023 by Shadowmon

[ChikxoGSok 3]

First, I need you to note one thing.
  When you build a character, look at their stats, and their skills.

  If the construction direction is only based on your personal thoughts, but it is not suitable for the character you have chosen.  You don't get what you want.

 Dont cry !!!

 .........

 

  A player of the RPG genre would begin his journey as follows:

 

 1. Try out every class you can, try a little bit of everything, with complete ease, without too much consideration and fear of risk.
  He will have an overview: how the game works, the differences between the characters, how the rules and formulas work....
  When he feels that everything is good, he will start from scratch, more serious about thinking, choosing and investing.

 

 2. He knows what he wants to do in the game, and chooses a character who can help him do it.

  + When he wants to play effectively, he can choose tanky class to build tanker, or choose healer to play as support.
  + When he wants to try hard, he will even choose mage, or warlock to play as heavy tank.  This is just an assumption.

  Even kids will choose hard mode, if they get bored with easy mode.

  Either way he understands what his choices are and how they will deliver the experience.

  In the end, there is only relaxation and joy in his experience.

[ChikxoGSok 3]

I will briefly analyze rogue a bit.  I'll keep it simple to give you space to think, and build this character, but it'll be enough to give you a rough assessment of rogue.

 1. STEALTH

 The basic skill of rogue is not only MER.
  Rogue's STEALTH is also an attack skill.  Besides, it can be combined with other Expert skills.

   In attack, its strong point is Burst dmg.  Its weakness is the harsh usage conditions and lower damage than other attack skills.
 
  DPS players don't like it, because they need to fight for a long time.  It does not fit.
  BURST players love it, they just want high damage in a short time.  They don't opt for protracted battles.

 

  STEALTH's stats allow it to be a versatile, multi-use, multi-purpose, multi-role skill.

  Don't ask for too high a parameter for such a skill.

  Ask yourself that:
 + How many ways and situations can you use STEALTH?
 + Do you really master it?

  For players who don't understand STEALTH, it's just a basic skill, easy to use, fun to play, but you can't call it an outstanding skill.

  Things will be very different when STEALTH is used by professional players.

 

 2. DODGE

 Its stats are good, but Dur and CD are not suitable for the effect to persist continuously.  This is a skill to use according to certain situations.

 

  For users of DODGE 5/5, consider relic of resiliency.  When used at the right time, 36.4% dodge is a good indicator.  You may not need to use too many upgrade slots, and invest in this stat on equipment, etc.

  If you try to build a high CDR rogue with 2 one hand axes, and add relic of continuous to DODGE .  You can also activate more often.  It is also a good choice.

 

  Either way, every choice needs to be based on your own use case and character.

  Consider carefully:
 + Your opponents, they can have very high accuracy stats.
 + Your opponent may not be just one person.
 + Your opponents may not have too much damage, but they have a lot of control skills.

 

 3. GOUGE

 This skill is not only used to reset combo with STEALTH, it is also an AOE control skill.

 

  In a teamfight, the Sleep debuff is useful when you use it on enemies that don't need to be attacked immediately.

  3-5s sleep is enough to slow the opponent by one or two beats.

  With Burst dmg rogue, in about 3-5 seconds he can deal huge amount of damage.  It won't be fun when his combo are interrupted, or potentially suppressed.  Once the Stun Caster is hands free, and you're in his sights....it's most likely your end.

  Besides, you can use GOUGE without getting out of the STEALTH state.

 

  When you have good timing skills, and conditions allow you to do so, GOUGE can be used twice.

  A battle usually happens very quickly, but not every battle starts from the first second.

 

4. KICK IN BACK

 This is a skill that debuffs one target at melee range.

  At 3-5lvl stage, in 1vs1 cases, when the opponent has high damage, KICK can be used as a damage reduction skill.
  Special 5/5 kick can be used continuously, even if your CDR : 0%

  U don't gain any points for KICK remember, we can also add relic to it.

  Find out and attach relic to KICK, so that it suits your playstyle.

  STEALTH, hit the target, there's a decent amount of time before STEALTH can be cast again.  We need to take advantage of everything other than just normal atk.

  Besides we can also see, 5/5 KICK is very good when hunting Boss, but when standing in the middle of normal monsters, the effect is not so great.

   We also don't need to use 5/5 KICK when we want to target targets who don't deal much damage, but have a lot of control.  That makes you lose a beat in the teamfight to do something ineffective.

 

 5. MERC
  Basic skill, dealing damage at melee range.

 

 BURST rogue won't weigh much, he definitely uses 5/5 MERC
  along with 5/5 STEALTH, no matter what he gets after lvl 18. Anyway we have the skill book reset.

  When he owns El.JUMP , he must also consider what role he will use Ex.JUMP for.  Not sure if El.JUMP is a good way to replace MERC.
  I'll talk a little bit more about El.JUMP later.

  Continue with MERC
  Read this paragraph slowly, as it can be misleading.

   When Rogue's physical damage is high.  Each skill point spent to level up the MERC will be slightly weaker.

  More specific
  + your physical damage 4-800
  + you are in short supply of skill points,
  + you have 1/5 MERC and 1/5 STEALTH.

  Let's look at the stats of the two skills to compare.
  STEALH is hard to use but deals more damage, it can be applied to other abilities, or even basic attacks (talent - shadow veil)
  MERC is easier to use but does less damage.  We also have the talent MERC+

 

 About El.Jump
 + Expert skill, meaning it's hard to get and upgrade, when you're a newbie.
 + For Rogue 4/4 EX.JUMP is a skill that can create the greatest damage on 1 hit.  But before that, the target must be debuff Poisoning.
  Combo looks not hard.  But in the battle between professional players, this is a huge variable.

  The target can have the status of "immun".  Target can clear de-buff.  When you appear and attack them, they will also know what you intend to do next.

 + EX.JUMP has the ability to mutate, becoming a movement skill, used to chase, but its damage will be greatly reduced.

 .............

 

 

  Reading this far, you must have a bit of a feeling about rogue already.

 

 With only basic parameters
 + can't become a Heavy tanker
 Leather armor, medium HP, no continuous defense skill.

 + can't build Pure DPS
  Other DPS classes, they have skills that support DPS instead of STEALTH, GOUGE, KICK.... That's professional DPS.

 + No skills to effectively support the team.

 

  When you can't become a professional in a certain area, others will not know what position to put you in, what task to assign.  You ask to join their group is to make it difficult for them.

  I also add, other people say that you are not professional maybe because you did not choose your field correctly, not because you are really weak.

 Rogue also has its strengths
 + Can Burst dmg built.
 + Can boss hunt built.
 + this is a difficult class to play, but it has STEALTH.

 

Thanks 

Edited April 17, 2023 by ChikxoGSok
I'm very sorry that my English writing skills are not good, I need to correct my spelling many times.

[ChikxoGSok 3]

On 4/12/2023 at 10:33 PM, Shadowmon said:

Rogues are not rogues anymore. For endgame content, they're only good for pve for bursting damges.

For gvg? 

 

Rogue: "I have aoe too. RICOCHET!" 

 

 

Sentinels: 

 

 

It's possible that the rogue's fix makes what we've invested in in the past no longer relevant.
  There are many people who invest a lot of money and time into playing rogue.
  They feel disappointed.
  This is not fun at all.

  On the one hand, I still hope that rogue will be fixed to be a little stronger than it is now.
  On the other hand, I also appreciate the adaptability of professional players.

  We play classes in the present moment, not some classes in the past.

[Overhoul 52]

16 hours ago, ChikxoGSok said:

 

It's possible that the rogue's fix makes what we've invested in in the past no longer relevant.
  There are many people who invest a lot of money and time into playing rogue.
  They feel disappointed.
  This is not fun at all.

Also can be said for other MC class

[Shadowmon 82]

16 hours ago, ChikxoGSok said:

 

It's possible that the rogue's fix makes what we've invested in in the past no longer relevant.
  There are many people who invest a lot of money and time into playing rogue.
  They feel disappointed.
  This is not fun at all.

  On the one hand, I still hope that rogue will be fixed to be a little stronger than it is now.
  On the other hand, I also appreciate the adaptability of professional players.

  We play classes in the present moment, not some classes in the past.

The thing is with rogues is how their kit are easily to countered. Like Rogues are not a threat anymore. Also, not as effective for war events. Unless the spam hundreds of life scrolls. That's just the cons. The pro, they're still nukers.

Edited April 17, 2023 by Shadowmon

[ChikxoGSok 3]

9 hours ago, Shadowmon said:

The pro, they're still nukers.

That's right.  

 

 I once saw in a GvG match, there were 2-3 rogue players on the enemy team, they were very efficient even though they didn't deal any damage.

 They just ran around and spammed Gouge into the area where my healer guild was standing.  Maybe they used gouge 5/5, or it was relic attached to prolong the effect.

 

 Everyone knows that in a GvG battle, individual strength is difficult to make a visible impact.  Everything depends on the smooth coordination between the members.

 

 And on my side, there was constant instability, we were always interrupted in supporting the tankers ahead.

 The tankers on their side very quickly broke through the fence and spilled over.

 It took me a while to notice the clouds of smoke rising (the animation of the Gouge skill).

 I can only say that they move very well.  We know they're there, but we don't know the exact location.

 They never showed up in our sight.  

 When I back to the rogue character and did a few tests, I realized one thing.

 Rogues can remain stealthy for more than 20 seconds, they can cross nearly 2 areas at normal speed.  In addition, using Gouge did not bring them out of this state.