Gladiator

That moment when you realize that Russians complained about Fetter nerf way more than 1 topic in international, and even the idea that fetter silences only after lvl4 also came from Russian suggestions, and when you realize that "mercs" suggested something completely different to fix Fetters. Feel free to feel dumb as you realize those facts. 🙂

My reviews for some of the new skills that I happened to experience during test and are worth considering if anyone cares: - Priest and Necro revive skills are not bad in concept, but they have high cooldown and the revived character receives almost no health at 1/4, even at 4/4 it's like 40% hp and 20% mana. I think it should be 100% hp and mana at 4/4, otherwise no point in investing skill points in it, that's if no chance of letting 4/4 revive in arena for example. - Natural Resistance: I don't know if it was intended to have that low cooldown, but I don't see any point in that because it lasts for 15seconds anyway. But the skill in concept is fine, Warden needed some PvP help. - Rogue's Frenzy and Shaman's new totem seemed pretty underwhelming in PvP, but I guess they're nice for PvE. - Warlock's Dark Seal was interesting, I think it made Exhaustion heal abit too much (1k+ for 3 times?), but it's a nice skill for Warlocks and it was needed imo.

I really put the 50% HP on the poll randomly. Anyway, I'll give my thoughts on the new skill. Not sure if the numbers of the test server are the real ones, if they are, I'd say the situation is not as bad. 50% is pretty nice, even though it doesn't count other buffs and craft gears, it makes perfect sense, it would be crazy healing 3-4k or more. It definitely involves a new way to play Paladin (for me at least), it's not the old stunning machine with high damage anymore, it's more supportive than ever, will have to see how that plays out in high level arena fights, will be hard to get used to this new role. To be honest, I'd still personally take a weaker version of this skill with a nerfed Fetter in a different way than just removing the silence, rather than a powerful heal with a decent cooldown, but low area control.

Lab is old news, nothing to be proud of, anyone can do that nowadays. I said that Paladin lacks defensive abilities when compared to other tanks like DK and Barb, didn't mention BD's defense being better, and as far as I know, all other tanks can use shield, nothing special about Pala. And my argument that it was ok to have less defensive abilities since we have better control, it covers up. But with this nerf, we do not really have better control anymore, and still not better defensive abilites, I don't see how anyone would disagree with that. If you wanna count that we have more heal, then you have to even reduce the stuns since we sacrifice shield strike stun for 2h magic builds, and since only with 2h, the heal is really noticeable. Don't forget the fact that Paladin has the lowest HP out of all tanks, and the reason for that is that we heal. So you're judging Paladin based on all experts maxed together? you say that I should max Sacred Shield, and then you talk about Harad Call's AoE stun, if I have both maxed then I lose a lot of damage from banner. If I don't max Harad Call, the stun is only a 70% chance and for 3 targets max, you shouldn't complain about that even if it's maxed, it's only 2 seconds stuns. And again, if you wanna keep mentioning that Paladin still have 2 stun experts, you need to forget about heal because it's barely 300-350, and both Barb and DK heal more than that in one way or the other. So yes, Paladin has the least defensive abilites amonst all shield tanks, but it was no problem since we could protect ourselves with Fetters. And we can heal yes, but if we wanna max heal then that's 1 less stun leaving us with only 1 AoE 2 second stun, with low total damage output in long fights. (a lot of physical damage lost) Sadly, Paladin doesn't really have high heals+shield skill AND too much stuns, it's either this or that. Alright I agree! But also give Pala resist skill and increase the time of shield strike stun and make harad Call 7 yard jump! Oh and AoE damage reduction as well *hi* This is the dumbest thing I've read in a while. This will be my last reply to you since you have no idea what you're talking about, and any further discussion with you is just a waste of my time, you clearly don't have much game sense, sorry to break it down to you.

Imagine if MCs had 50 Warlocks, and were winning all wars, would it make sense to remove stun from Dark Circle? Warlocks are gonna become very weak in Arena. So no, it doesn't make any sense.

I addressed the point that this fix could be for wars. And all I can say is that it's not fun for Paladins like me who never actually participated in wars because of its timing, so I hope they didn't really nerf it because of wars, because now it's useless in Arena too which is my main interest. They definitely could have made a smarter fix if wars was their only concerns. And Mages are a bigger danger in Wars than Paladins, so I don't know how that makes sense to give mages more AoE damage. Also looking at the results of the last war, 3 wins for MC, 3 wins for elves, 1 draw in all 7 servers. No clear overpower because of the paladins Fetter. The problem was clearly overpopulation, even if we count the AoE control of both sides, we'd probably get around the same amount of control in seconds for both sides.

Still doesn't explain why they had to nerf Fetters in particular. Look at the last 2 skill fixes in the main post, they all involved buffs for Paladin, and especially buffs for Experts, they should at least consider those skills that were buffed that might have led to Paladins becoming overpowered. Because fetters is 6 years old, and I don't see why NOW that it became op. Oh no problem in PvE, didn't mention it at all.

I find it completely absurd that they do such a radical change to a basic skill. I don't remember the last time it happened to any class. They have all the expert skills that they can edit, but they chose fetters, even though it has been like that since the beginning of Paladin. Nonetheless I suggest this fix instead of just completely removing silence effect. 1/5: lock 2 characters and silence 1 of them 2/5: lock 3 characters and silence 1 of them 3/5: lock 4 characters and silence 2 of them 4/5: lock 5 characters and silence 2 of them 5/5: lock 6 characters and silence 3 of them

Good job arguing against the argument that I never made! I didn't say stuns is everything in Arena, it's definitely a big part of it though. But for Paladin, it doesn't have much without its control. Unlike Deathknights and Barbs for example who have stronger defense. Paladin has weak defensive abilities and thats why it was important to have more control (Now less). Look, all I'm saying is that I know Paladin might have needed a nerf, but that was the wrong way to do it, and no one still could justify this nerf replying to the 3 points I made in my main post, especially the first 2 points. Because that's what they did right now:

Too many people are missing the point, or just purposely acting dumb. I don't who brought up 1v1, all I mentioned was Arena and wars. So I'll spare myself the time replying to people who came here just to miss the point and have no real argument. Now that's funny, who are you to say that? Is that real balance if a class like necro and priest is completely useless in PvP? And then you wonder why there are few Priests and Necros and why there is overpopulation for some classes. No logic whatsoever. No my dear, if a class is weak in Arena/PvP then it needs a buff in Arena/PvP, that's how the game works. Even if we suppose you're right. What should I do when Paladin was a good PvP class, and built my character for years for PvP, and now it's bad in PvP, what should I do? See, that's not good for the game. Fetter was always too op? I bet you didn't read what I said, or can't even think before writing. Fetters was there since the beginning of Paladin, we're talking about 6 years, the skill has always been this way. Were you saying it was op before Experts came out? No. You're saying it's op now because now Palas have new stuff that make him op. Banner/jump. You said it yourself, it's expert skills that made Pala op. My whole point was this big fetter nerf was unnecessary for reasons I mentioned, didn't say that Paladin didn't need any nerf. Show me other classes basic skills that got nerfed that much, when was the last time that happened? Probably before Experts came out. I don't see how anyone can justify nerfing a basic skill that much when there are newly added/fixed experts that could be rather nerfed. And good luck using fetters to prevent kiting, remember everyone can still use their control during fetter so they will be able to keep kiting. Let's see how you make it useful.

Proof? I can assume that 5 Charmers can fully stun all Paladins if each Charmer just takes 1 Paladin and stuns him from 7 yards.

Nice logic. Well, 5 players of any AoE/control class really are just as bad. 5 Warlocks? 5 Charmers? 5 Shamans? 5 Mages? Even 5 Wardens? And if the problem lies with 5 Paladins in 5v5 then why nerf Paladin in all aspects like 2v2 and 3v3 instead of in only 5v5? Like to reduce the targets possible for example.

Basically what they did to Pala

The Fetter nerf was definitely too much in my opinion, they should nerf Experts instead. Fetter was there since 2012 and it was never OP, and now they decide to nerf it that much. It doesn't make sense. I made a topic about it in the international section for Paladin, check it out if you can English 🙂

First of all, before anyone jumping in saying that I'm saying that because it's my class, I do think that Pala is too strong right now. But that was one bad way to balance it, and I'll explain. And after that, I'll try to suggest other ways to balance it. You can go directly to the suggestion if you don't wanna read the whole thing. Also I'm not the only one who thinks that, even people from legion side with good game sense would know that it's just too much. Nerfing Fetters in this radical way is a bad idea, and here is why: 1. Fetters is a basic skill: 1.1. Basic skills define the class. It's like nerfing the heal skill for healers, the damage skill for damage classes, and the stuns for stun classes. I know Paladin isn't explicitly a stun class, but it definitely classify as a crowd control character, and it had only Fetters and Harad Call to do that. And now with most classes having the ability to regain control during fetters, it no longer serves as any type of crowd control. Just like no one ever mentions Mage's Chains or Shamans Earthquake as a reliable control. 1.2. (Pala) Basic skills are dangerous to mess with. If this basic skill goes kaput, there is no other place to put the skill points on. Aura? It's already bad. Agro? No thanks. So there is really no place to put the skill points other than on Fetters. 1.3. The remaining "good" skills for Paladin are all Expert skills, and that's alone a big disadvantage because there will be no time to lay out a good combo due to the 2 seconds cooldown between experts. 2- Fetters has been this way since the beginning of Paladin. And no one ever complained about it. People might have started complaining after the recent 2 skill-related updates. So the skill itself is NOT OP. Don't tell me that it took devs 6 years to realize that Fetters shouldn't block skills usage. If you wanna argue that the class as a whole became too strong, sure, and we could agree to some degree, but you have to look at what made it OP. Let's look at the most relevant and recent skill changes for Pala: Illumination. Now, all mobs under this effect get magical damage.Harad's Call. No banner is needed when using this skill now.Harad's Banner. The number of players being damaged was limited. Depending on the skill level the number of targets is the following: 3-4-5-6.Sun Seal. The chance of success when using the seal on mini-bosses, bosses and raid bosses was significantly increased. It was 10%, now it is 70%. And only after that, Paladins became really relevant, so for you to come and tell me that Fetter is the problem, and nerf it in a way that makes it useless, there is really no way to justify it. I wish that devs tell us why they made changes for skills in general, especially if it has to do with such a change, because it's not the first time that they make a completely bizarre fix like that with no reasonable explanation. Like previously nerfing Warden's damage instead of defense. 3- Fetters is critical for Paladins. Actually not only for Paladins, but also all Sentinels. I don't know if devs know how much important Fetters was for Paladins, they are still the lowest HP tank, the lowest defensive abilities, and Fetters was one way to deal with this disadvantage, it was the only skill besides Banner that made up the Paladin, and now it's gone with no real replacement since it's basic, and as mentioned above, the rest of the basic skills are trash. And as for Sentinels in Arena, they are way underpowered in controlling enemies compared to Legion side as whole. If this fix was purely to balance wars, then that's one good way to lose players, because most players focus on Arena in PvP, balancing wars could've been done in other ways, because in this way, Paladin will be very weak in Arena. Paladin was strong not solely because of his stuns, because if you compare it to other stun classes, it doesn't really have much more stuns, and even when Paladin has more stuns, the other class excels in other aspects like defense (DK/Barb) or damage (BD) or better 1 target control (Warlock/Charmer). Other ideas to balance Paladin: - Fetter cooldown increase or duration decrease - Players affected by fetters will have increased defense against the Paladin or will receive reduced damage from the Paladin (PvP only) - Players affected by fetters will deal increased damage to the Paladin (PvP only) - Banner damage reduction - Remove Harad Call damage (PvP only or when using 1h mace and shield) - Return Harad Call Cooldown to 25 sec. - Or make the Fetter's silencing effect go up with the skill progress, this way, it will stay relevant in arena and reduce control in wars if that's devs' concerns. 1/5: catch 2 characters and silence 1 of them 2/5: catch 3 characters and silence 1 of them 3/5: catch 4 characters and silence 2 of them 4/5: catch 5 characters and silence 2 of them 5/5: catch 6 characters and silence 3 of them - Or finally make the silence effect a chance depending on level (No pls): example: 40%-50%-60%-70%-80% **Combinations and variants of those ideas are possible** But anyway, any of those ideas, wouldn't be as bad as completely removing the silencing effect. Come on, it really destroys the PvP aspect of Paladins. If devs insist on this nerf, the new skill better give 30-40% extra HP, and we should be able to use [Relic of Silence] on Fetters like Barbs and Deathknights, because we don't have anything special now, and they better start working on improving Pala's heal and defensive skills so it becomes a generic tank class like the rest. Heck, Barbs and DKs will have more defense and more control, BDs more stuns and more damage, what kind of logical balance is that?

FUNG?

Totally, they are already useless in Arena.

Definitely too much 😞 At least make it like druid's Roots, only lvl4-5 disables skills usage. #Pray4Pala

Arena will be active again* I hope more people can get access to that currency like top 10 or 20, but obviously the gear would be pretty expensive so that only #1-5 could afford to buy something in 1 season. Pls make seasons shorter btw. 1 month is good enough.

Yeah that tab is pretty useless imo, it would have been better if we could put potions and buffs in it instead, not even necessarily buff skills.

Goddammit ppl complain about actually having to do work to fully stun opponents.

That was my favorite one

Not really random, it's certain rules that we have to figure out.

It seems very hard and challenging and I like that. I hope that we see new concepts in quests, not just the normal old stack quests and deliver on exp potion and get reputation for dungeon. I'm hoping for a challenge and a good reward in each quest. I have ideas of cool concepts if devs didn't think of them yet - For the quests that we need to go underwater for, we have to wear [Diving mask] otherwise we will start receiving periodic damage after some time. - (Some) quests will automatically fail if we don't complete them in a specific time (Because we drown) and so we will have to repeat the quest all over again - Some mysterious areas where we receive big damage or die immediately not knowing why. Like swamps towers but more mysterious - Something like wandering huge whales could swallow players that come near them, and then players get teleported to the insides of that whale to find their way out of the complicated mazes overcoming some nastyass creatures and hurdles, and maybe find some swallowed human quest-giver and get a cool reward for it! - I think we can make something out of the Submarines too! Only in a full party of 5 players, the leader of a party can summon a Submarine for some cost and lead it, for faster movement underwater and to not drown! I could go on but I don't know if devs could implement any new ideas if they already have everything planned out.

You should change Boss Guild Battles to: Boss battles that we take but only like it when we win otherwise we get salty and cry in elf chat if we lose a raid boss battle.