Shax
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Posts posted by Shax
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Rebalance is around the corner and as of today, rogue is the only class that can be replaced with any class and still be more useful. This is precisely why this class is dead for 4-6 years. If we take into account that the purpose of rogue is to be an assassin agile class, it does horrible at that. For as long as i can remember rogue has been getting changes mainly in talents but the core issue is in its basic and expert skills. They are. Just. Outdated. No longer the talents can suffice to improve this class. The more updates it receives in its talents and not skills, the bigger the gap between the newbies and long term players will be. Even the talents and branches are extremely underwhelming for rogue.
Lets take a look at the class issues and skills which needs to be reworked:
-Kick in the back: No idea what a skill that reduce accuracy and only can be casted on 1 person doing in 2024 lol. This isn't 2014, game has shifted to group play style so this skill being casted to 1 person is outdated as hell and literally anyone and anything can collect good accuracy nowadays.
Suggestion #1: now it immobilize enemy in place and block its skill use for couple secs.
Suggestion #2: skill now throws a smoke bomb in the area making anyone that makes contact with it decrease their accuracy + phy dmg/mgc dmg by ?%.
-Dodge skill: this is rogue basic defense skill it increases his dodge chance and lasts for 8-10 secs. Again, in 2024 this is very weak due to most people and mobs able to collect accuracy very easily which defeats purpose od dodge.
Suggestion: increase duration to 12 secs, and raise dodge chance. Best scenario with dodge stat is to make cap raise to 80% because of how easily people can achieve accuracy nowadays.
-Stealth: the dmg increase buff from this skill is not very practical, its tedious having to waste 3 secs constantly going invisible for some small buff in dmg that any other dmg class have by default. That 3 secs trying to go invisible and attack alone is enough to make u dead just while youre busy activating this buff.
Suggestion: add another buff under stealth like walking speed or resistance to compensate for it.
Expert skills:
Absolute reflexes: this skill gives guaranteed dodges against dmg but it doesn't protect against dot dmg. Making rogue vulnerable since this is basically the only guaranteed defensive skill. Furthermore the 4sec cooldown is too long and is enough for any class to destroy u while this skill in cooldown. What ends up happening in that 4 secs cd is u get 2 shots of 2.5k dmg and youre down to 2k hp then dot dmgs from crowd for example in 5x5 eventually finishes you off and u have no protection against that, no resist skills against stuns nor walking speed to get away.
Suggestions: skill now dodges DOT dmg and skill cd is decreased from 4sec to 2.5 secs. Now rogue actually has solid defense to counter and comeback from a losing scenario instead of being a punching bag.
Ricochet: this skill without talent, is the worst aoe dmg skill in the game. It needs to work with poisonous skill and increase its dmg a bit.
Illusive jump: this skill makes u charge and jump at enemy but rogue has practically 0 defense. Making u not fit to use this most of the time. Add stun to this skill and remove stun from flurry. And instead of needing a target to jump, make this target-free jump to increase rogue's mobility in the game.
Trickiest technique: rogue has probably the worst heal skill in the game nowadays. Not only 15% heal from this is low but to even heal that, you need to cast poison on enemy which is another skill, and it CANT miss AND this skill itself CANT miss EITHER lol and thats to receive 15% heal... even lifesteal can heal more than that. Suggestion: buff heal to 25% and make it not needing 2 freaking skills to heal a measly 15%.
Poisonous blades: The poison dot from this should give enemy some reduced movement speed, it will help catch running enemies.
For branches, i dont want to flood this with Suggestions but seriously its been suggested many times in forums that all 3 rogue branches are offensive based, Atleast rework one of them to have defensive features... anyone can see that every other class has atleast 1 pvp/defensive branch except for rogue having 3 offensive branches which only 1 of them really is useful.
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1-Stop forcing people into group/guild activities. Not everything needs to be done with a guild. People enjoy solo play aswell
2- Whoever is behind balancing Rogue class needs to be replaced/fired. You guys successfully killed this class with the amount of useless things or "lack of" everytime. No one uses this class Its embarrassing how you keep neglecting the fact it needs massive reworks on most of its skills. This is foolish who is this dev behind these ideas for rogue? Dont understand how they aren't embarrassed to post these rogue talents for everyone to see. But It's whatever enjoy the remaining 50 rogues left in the game who will quit eventually too once you forget this class exist in December's rebalance
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1-Stop forcing people into group/guild activities. Not everything needs to be done with a guild. People enjoy solo play aswell
2- Whoever is behind balancing Rogue class needs to be replaced/fired. You guys successfully killed this class with the amount of useless things or "lack of" everytime. No one uses this class Its embarrassing how you keep neglecting the fact it needs massive reworks on most of its skills. This is foolish who is this dev behind these ideas for rogue? Dont understand how they aren't embarrassed to post these rogue talents for everyone to see. But It's whatever enjoy the remaining 50 rogues left in the game who will quit eventually too once you forget this class exist in December's rebalance
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1 hour ago, vavavi said:
It's just trying to eliminate every way people can counter rogue
Rogue currently is the easiest class to counter, having close to no resistance and defense, you'd have to be a literal moron to not know how to kill it.
We've established stealth doesn't protect from cc and pretty much anything nowadays gets you out of it. Long range stun skill (flurry) 50% of the times doesn't stun due to most classes resisting it, and thats not all, the issue is for all ranged classes when they are actually stunned by flurry, Rogue just cannot combo due to the fact it has to walk to them. While the stun is finished & they can just keep creating distance and spamming cc, (here you learn why resistance is suggested often for rogue)
You also start to notice why seeker is designed better for this job:
-Seeker can walk fast to continue those combos.
-it applies slow movement effect. (now they are more easier to catch)
-Can drag the enemy to them.
-it's equipped with decent resistance to protect from that cc.
Its a no brainer, seeker is built right for that job, and this is just one flaw of rogue, which is supposed to be agile and taking out these ranged classes. this topic aims exactly to alleviate this flaw
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3 hours ago, vavavi said:
This is on top of asking for a poison rework/buff aswell. Wheres the fair trade-off here?
The trade off is rogue is a shit class which people here have highlighted why multiple times, theres ALOT of reworks need to be done, hence why it seems like people are asking for alot, in actuality the class is lacking so much of course every suggestion is gonna be filled with buffs everywhere. This isn't your typical class which needs a "5% dmg buff" or some slight reworking. This class is years behind in terms of updates, and the frustration goes up every year it is unnoticed, so when you see people upset and passionate in their suggestions and arguments, you shouldn't be surprised. People spend real money on their class and few nerfs here and there thats fine but when you essentially neglect a class for so long that it becomes useless in 99% scenarios, expect people to be complaining and suggesting deserved buffs left and right
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3 hours ago, vavavi said:
It should be fairly obvious an invisible enemy is harder to cc than one you can see all the time. You saying stealth does nothing at all to avoid being cc'd is just being ignorant on purpose.
He's not being ignorant at all:
9 hours ago, Shax said:Hiding from ccs ≠ protection from ccs, hiding isn't winning you anything, stealth isn't a skill that keeps you invincible for eternity i dont know what you're on about
Everyone is familiar with stealth and they will just wait out your stealth simple as that, and even invisible you are prone to getting controlled there's really no point trying to argue about this. it just says to everyone you don't know much about the class which at this point i think its common knowledge
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5 hours ago, weakplay said:
I think your logic: Because seekers are good, there are more players. Because rogues are bad
No shit Sherlock, seekers are way better lol they just have better gameplay than rogues. Its not super difficult. Denying that there's more seekers than rogues because seekers have skills that benefit the class more than rogue is just silly, YES no one is picking rogue because it sucks period. YES people will keep picking seeker because it's a fun class that works as it should be. If i were you I'd stop posting here its a ridiculous waste of time and you are just making a fool out of yourself
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18 hours ago, vavavi said:
Giving a barbs charge to rogues that can disappear into invisibility and already do more dmg is far too strong without there being a heavy trade off
Buddy there's already a trade off already, barb can tank the heck out of you, rogue isn't doing that. It's dying in few tabs. Rogue has nothing to give up anymore, they nerfed literally everything lol
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18 hours ago, vavavi said:
A stealthed rogue is never going to be as vulnerable to ccs as a class without stealth
Hiding from ccs ≠ protection from ccs, hiding isn't winning you anything, stealth isn't a skill that keeps you invincible for eternity i dont know what you're on about
Everyone is familiar with stealth and they will just wait out your stealth simple as that, and even invisible you are prone to getting controlled there's really no point trying to argue about this. it just says to everyone you don't know much about the class which at this point i think its common knowledge
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On 7/30/2024 at 12:15 PM, Toad Sage said:
Add 2.5 sec stun (at all levels) on Jump
Hence this makes perfect sense why it should be added, rogue is meant to assassinate ranged classes like druid, priest, rangers, hunters etc. The 2 stuns rogue has are not working effectively as they should be, so i agree flurry should have no stun and instead just becomes a ranged dmg skill which applies poison to make it unique and strong. And the stun moves to illusive jump skill so that rogue can catch these ranged classes without it having to walk towards them
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32 minutes ago, vavavi said:
It is protection in the sense that rogues are capable of choosing when and where to engage. You can sneak past ppl, avoid ccs while invisible and all sorts of different things to engage the fight in a favourable way.
It doesn't really matter when you attack, there isn't really "perfect moments" for rogue to jump in. In 5x5 scenario, you cant expect your whole pt to wait for you figuring out the perfect moment lol. Realistically thats just not how it works. And even in 2v2 and other modes, you can just hide but only for as long as your stealth allows, enemies will keep cycling their skills getting ready for you to qttack. and if the class you're against has detect skill or detect pot on, thats it lol. Stealth becomes useless, this isn't even hard to digest it's basic stuff if you're familiar with rogue or fought against it
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2 hours ago, vavavi said:
Stealth is a tool that can be used to avoid cc
Not when every skill get you out of invisibility and detect pots existing, if none of this existed sure it will be a good "protection" otherwise hell no its not protecting you from no cc lol
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21 hours ago, Gladiator said:
It's funny how the "competent" opinions even clash and contradict each others. Y'all are confused on what you even think Rogue needs
They're not clashing lol these are suggestions by multiple people, the class is trash and needs alot of work and tweaks is the point, it lacks in many things not just 1 thing which results in different suggestions for those lacking elements otherwise you probably wouldn't even see alot of people complaining here.
This is a dicussion and suggestions area, idk why would you be surprised at people suggesting different buffs lol anyone is free to suggest whatever they want, doesn't mean it's gonna get implemented
On 8/4/2024 at 5:49 PM, weakplay said:In front of the chief, the pve of the rogue is indeed inferior to that of the chief, but it does not mean that the rogue is bad
Fact check- in front of every other dmg class therefore the class is indeed bad
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On 8/4/2024 at 4:58 PM, Gladiator said:
Yeah but how is this a reason to buff a class? Every class besides 1 class is 2nd-last pick. If Rogue is buffed to be the first pick in damage, the other classes will complain that they're the 2nd/3rd pick. There will always be one first pick ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Well now you shifted the argument, But eitherway the idea isn't to make it first pick, the idea is to make it as important of a pick as other classes in that particular aspect. So if a hunter, chief, charmer are prioritized in dmg, the rogue should be on par with numbers with them not have so much of a gap that there's almost no point in picking it for a pt. As the issue here is the wide difference in dmg, not difference itself. Because it doesn't have to be exactly equal in numbers however it should be pretty close to them to live up to its purpose.
And i think having equal dmg in pt alone isn't gonna cut it yet, rogue should have some sort of unique ability that is a must have in some other scenario other than stealth since the stealth itself is nerfed and doesn't work as one would imagine, like its not obsolete, many things can get u out of stealth, and its really only beneficial to the owner and very rarely where it benefits a pt or group. Therefore it isn't a must have ability. I'm not saying rogue should have an ability to support a pt or a group but it can be something to support itself also. The idea is to just make it unique and has a need to be picked as a class because right now nothing is enticing about playing a rogue, as the only arguably unique thing it has "stealth" is owned by a seeker and seeker is more enticing to get picked for having the speed buff, and the considerable dmg in PVE
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Pretty nice idea tbh, but i have a feeling even with this rework, rogue's dmg in pve would still be far away from other dmg classes. The gap is big i noticed. And i dunno if this buff alone could make it compete with other dmgers but all in all a great breakdown of that scam talent and a good suggestion, goodjob
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On 8/2/2024 at 6:27 PM, Gladiator said:
To act that rogue needs a buff is an objective truth that can't be disagreed with otherwise you're malicious and biased is just delusional to say the least.
It is objective truth lol nor it is delusional perhaps in your world it is but the reality is
Rogue lacks in every department and is 2nd/3rd pick at best.
Just from legion side comparison:
-Dmg? Hunter, reaper, chief, even charmer is better at that.
-Aoe? Chief, lock
-Tank? yeah no
-support? moral support, sure. Actual support forget it
There's no important aspect of the game that requires rogue as priority and that it shines at that no other class can do better, that's just an indisputable fact lol idek what people are arguing here
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23 hours ago, vavavi said:
The class works great in arena when paired with the right partner. Sure it won't win everything, but that goes for every class. Some matchups are simply going to favor rogue while some won't.
Absolutely not, not when the enemy classes are at the same level with gears etc. I dunno what you been playing. If this is true you would see way more rogues winning 2v2 but that ain't happening. Domination of arena belongs to 3-4 classes then followed up by the average ones that do good, then at the bottom you have rogue.
23 hours ago, vavavi said:Also rogue has all the tools to build resist through gears and buffs to counter cc, same as every class does.
It doesn't matter having even "100% resist" against anyone who can reach the same resist while having better defense and skills. knowing any other class can reach higher or on par with rogue when it comes to resist, you still will lose since the other class just has far more useful abilities to take you down on top of having higher or similar resist %
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On 8/1/2024 at 12:45 AM, vavavi said:
There are other ways to make assassin style gameplay, and therefore rogues, more viable. Having new content released that promotes such a play style would do alot already. Like for example a capture the flag style arena mode where rogues(and seekers), would shine.
Sure lets just create whole new content(s) for a specific type of class that would take 72917 years to implement instead of literally just buffing the class, like we always have. Not to mention number of people that would complain wanting content for their class too. Absolutely unnecessary. Just buff rogue's dmg a little higher in pve, giving it some sort of defensive or anti control abilities or aoe type of effect to withstand itself and be you know, chosen as a class for atleast something? As long as the class has purpose that it shines in or prioritized first than other classes at "something" whether that is: a must have dmger in pt in dg, a feared foe in 2v2 when paired with a certain class, or a class that finishes dgs "super fast" or maybe it's a priority class for a war type situation. Essentially this is rogue's issue, its pretty much anybodys last pick at anything, any aspect of the game, other classes are prioritized first and rogue isn't even 2nd or 3d pick most of the time. Other classes will offer u what rogue does on top of other benefits.
It's no surprise people eventually just move on to other classes or in extreme cases where players invested too much into the class just quit the game all together
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1 hour ago, pawned said:
Now im kinda confident to say, 1.1k on a Rogue is dealt by every damage class just with 1 autoattack
1.1k? Thats a lucky number, usually its higher than that, atleast by a seeker n bd, i usually notice their autos more like 1.3k-1.5k, seeker can get up to 3k autos with their talent.
Just this morning a BD hit me with 2.9k dmg (having 56% resil) , i went to inspect their character ,their wep was +8.
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15 hours ago, vavavi said:
No good rogue is getting melted in 4 seconds unless it's against multiple people
No problem lets do the math, I go around 60% resil, having 8k-9k hp, get hit 2.9k-3k by dmg classes (seeker/bd) im left with 6k-5k hp reflex turns on then i dodge the next hit or two, reflexes goes on cd, that 5k hp is gone in 2-3 hits. Usually this equals to around 5-6 secs max. And a total of what, 4-5 hits? Lol
This is a scenario I've experienced many times even as someone who has a pretty good understanding of other classes and has experience in arena. You could argue that i have the ability to run away n go stealth- yes sometimes you are able to run, but thats all there is to it, "just run" you have no adequate heal to counter and heal up nor resist. So you end up returning to the fight with the same hp to your inevitable death. This scenario is WORSE for rogues who have less than 50% resil lol so imagine their struggle
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19 hours ago, vavavi said:
Rogues have good defensive capabilities though. Stealth, their relic set, ability to build dodge and reflexes which is just big dmg reduction.
Dodge barely works most of the time, since people can aquire accu easy nowadays, not to mention the dodge skill lasts 8-10 secs lol not to mention to even aquire a decent dodge % say goodbye to lifesteal. And to aquire dodge say gbye to any considerable dmg u can get from dmg skills becs 0 points left. Relic set is okay no complains there. Reflexes saves you from 1 hit, 2 max. Then 4 secs cd you are vulnerable to get deleted in that time. That's the issue wih reflex is its long cd being 4 secs is more than enough to melt rogue. In the end you realize rogue's defense is some chance of dodge and 1-2 guaranteed dodges. This is simply not enough to survive nowadays.
It's not even that complicated to see this, rogue is not beating any other class period
-Dealing dmg? Youre gonna pick hunter, chief lock, heck even charmer lol
-Need Support? Charmer/shaman/necro
-healer? Shaman, necro
-aoe? Chief
-Tank? Dk/barb
What is the point of rogue? Literally only picked when none of these other classes are available
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Totally agree with this, the poison animation delay needs to go its so frustrating and ruins the agility of the rogue. This rearranged skill effect is a great suggestion and shows you that without creating new skills and just switching effects between already existing skills can make so much difference.
The only thing i would add here is removing the requirement for target for elusive jump skill-This also fixes rogues slow mobility in the open world making it a bit faster, furthermore in a fight situation, can easily jump to run away without needing a target to do so.
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1 minute ago, weakplay said:
I don't comment on other suggestions, I just oppose them
"Because the rogues lack resistance, so add resistance to the rogues." It's a ridiculous reasonWhy is it ridiculous? Do you just oppose suggestions without reason? No one will take you seriously here, theres nothing "ridiculous" about it. With your logic its as ridiculous giving the opposite assassin class like seeker 28% resist in just skills and talents alone What is this delusion? seeker is able to get to +80% resist with buffs? But its ridiculous to give rogue some resist? Resist isn't even gonna fix all rogues problems, there's much more that need to be looked into which is what we are discussing here. Instead of barking "ridiculous!" "bad suggestion!" like a dog, provide reason and better suggestions like a functioning human otherwise your replies are with 0 significance
Suggestions for Rogue Rebalance 2024
in Discussions and Suggestions
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Even if they make kick in the back guaranteed not resisted debuff, -45% accuracy is useless nowadays, rogue still get hit nonetheless by people. Not to mention u can only cast that skill on 1 enemy, its such an outdated garbage skill which needs to be either completely replaced by a different defensive skill for rogue or if they have plans to keep it, it needs to become target free aoe skill + additionally decrease another stat from the enemy along with accuracy like penetration or their phy/mgc dmg. This will result in making rogue super useful in wars/gvgs because of the new aoe nature of the skill