Shax
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Posts posted by Shax
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17 minutes ago, vavavi said:
Seekers issues aren't relevant to this. Also their resist is only 8%, while lacking any ranged attacks, which rogue has 3 of, one of which is a stun. Also they don't gain any damage from their stealth, while rogue does.
50% would be broken because it would end in a cycle of coming out of stealth, being resist buffed to near 100%, and being able to stealth back with barely any time for anybody to do anything to cc the rogue.
Complete immunity to cc like that on a extremely high damage class that can come in and out of stealth is a massive issue. The 8% seeker has is already a problem when buffed. 50% is complete overkill.
Here u go, 28% resist just from these bad boys for seeker, + small talents that buffs that resistance even more lets just round them up 30%, if they use buffs that's easily 60%+ resistance. This is while having tanking/ arguably #1 dmger and better speed than rogue. But clearly according to ur knowledgeable opinion 50% resist for a measly 3 secs for rogue would be bad
Keep it up though you guys are doing a good job showing devs with these smart opinions why rogue deserve the buffs it need lol
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14 hours ago, vavavi said:
50% is extremely broken even by itself lol.
So you're telling me bd can have a resist skill on demand, while having a shield and a dmg reduction and a way nicer heal skill, but a rogue class with no defensive skill whatsoever can't have 50% resist coming out of stealth for 3 SECS? lmao how is that broken in your head???
do u realize seeker has better tank abilities, bigger dmg output, invisibility, more speed yet have resistance out of stealth?
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5 hours ago, vavavi said:
50% resist is a ridiculous idea, rogues would be running around with resist buffs literally unstunnable, just to stealth again and repeat it.
Imagine a unstunnable class that can appear from thin air, hit 4k autos on full awarded ppl, which has 100% resist, heals, has maxed out dodge, and can disappear from a fight at any given moment.
You're thinking that every buff suggestion will be added, these are suggestion and although majority of them are needed for this class, most likely not all will be added. Not to mention that people need to take these numbers with a grain of salt. Devs dont just copy suggestion numbers and add them instead they do tests and figure out what would be most balanced. For instance 50% resistance coming out of stealth will not be broken at all if that was the only buff it got along with something else but if every suggestion was added, probably would be best to tone those numbers down
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Currently what i see everyone is agreeing on are the following
-Add a Dmg reduction or guaranteed dodges (survivability reason)
-Area debuffs/aoe - so rogue is usable in group fights (group activity reason)
-some type of resistance nothing too broken, just something to let rogue have a small chance of roaming freely. (Also survivability reason)
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12 minutes ago, pawned said:
Yeah, because i dont see Rogue getting resist skill at all. Considering bracelests + pot and castle scroll will already make you like 65% resist. Imo getting dmg reduction has a better changes than resist skill on rogue
The issue here is not everyone has access to those pots and scrolls.
Sure id say average people will have bracelets, so how much resist is that like 7% resist from them? And by doing that youre sacrificing dodge which is essential to survive a bit for rogue. 20% is not enough already so imagine 7%
So what you realize here is that the average rogue which is what we need to keep in mind here, will suffer still. Control skills are at an all time high, and some resistance is a must for any class now. The very least has to be some sort of resist talent to keep rogue in that float state and not be a controlled dummy.
Best ideas i could think of is 1. getting rid of dmg buff from stealth and replacing it with some resist, similarly to seeker
Or 2. it could be that one of rogue skills become passive and trigger some resist buffs from dodging
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Noticed you didn't suggest any resistance either, considering how badly rogue gets controlled with having 0 resistance effects
My recommendation for devs was to add a lingering 50% resistance for 3-4 secs instead of dmg buff when coming out of stealth talent
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12 hours ago, Marshemllo said:
Well i think better rogue dmg become so high i mean im as a player has 50+ resli those rogues +9 hit me 4k - 5k and dodge is too much + the heal stun rogue endless
Not even seeker hit 5k on a 50% resil player, Refrain from exaggerating to make your point.
Rogue's dmg is not crazy at all, it's only the talent that x2 your auto dmg with a 25% chance. Which seeker and reaper has yet they have better survivability than rogue
Rogue is the only melee class that doesn't have a stable defense skill, every melee class has a shield/dmg reduction yet rogues only defense is a dodge that is based on luck. It makes no sense to not give it one, rogue is not a ranged class, it can't get closer without getting stunned to death. And it has to get closer to the enemy which it cant do also since it doesn't even have a resistance skill lol
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Hello devs, fellow rogues. Rebalance is a month away and with that, I'm gonna discuss what rogue class actually needs and highlight its weak points so far.
-Since the start of the game, Rogue was famous for "dodging" and "doing massive dmg". However along the years, this class has without a doubt went downhill and stopped living to its potential especially in the "dodge" aspect. Having got the most discussions out of every class on the official server on discord.
It's clear people are NOT happy with rogue
So how do you fix this class?
Major weak point to this class:
● Survivability
*Dodge skill: Increase duration of skill back to 15 secs.
*Kick in the back (rework): the skill now throws a smoke bomb in nearby area that decrease accu by 35% and atk speed by 15% to up to 3 enemies. At 4/4
*Absolute reflexes (needs urgent fix): Idea 1: Skill now doesn't give atk speed or dodge buff instead it gives guaranteed dodge stacks each successful dodges. Each 2 successful dodges = 1 guaranteed dodge stack.
3 stacks max every 6 secs.
Idea 2: Skill now reduce dmg by 5% each successful dodge but no more than 20% dmg reduction. After hitting 20% it lasts for 5 secs and reset the buff.
Other skills:
*Extermination skill (optional): increase atk speed buffs for swords and daggers by 2%, and cd by 5% for axes. Or just let it give flat 20% atk speed and 20cd to any wep type.
*Poisonous blades: Decrease animation time (for the love of god) skill now deal dot dmg and heal 4% of player hp each successful auto or skill dmg, no more than 20%. (Means trickiest skill no longer heals player)
Talents
*Thirst for murder: the skill now additionally increase the rage by 10% when enemy's hp is lower than 50%.
*Shadow veil (stealth talent) the skill now doesn't keep dmg buff and instead increase resistance parameter to 10% for 3 secs after character leaves stealth.
Lastly, i would like to shed light that 3 of rogues branches are about dmg, would you please rework 1 of them to be survivability one. For example a key branch talent would be called:
*Absolute resistance: the rogue class is able to remove 1 debuff each 4 successful dodges. The 5th dodge also removes 1 additional control. (Kinda like rangers talent).
To summarize: rogue lacks in survivability aspect mostly. Increase dodge duration to 15 secs, rework Absolute reflex to be a solid defensive skill, rework kick in the back to be a aoe skill, let rogue have some sort of resistance to controls and a better quicker heal from poisonous and rework/buff few talents.
That is it- This is exactly how you make rogue viable in today's warspear, players have been dying to see this class rise again, its quite embarrassing that it has been in the forgotten land for so long, it's almost like a bug in the game that hasn't been fixed lol
Thank you all for reading- share your thoughts below
- Drakoslayd, Laevateinn, pawned and 3 others
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Yeah this is exactly what I have been suggesting. Stack of 100% dodges so that the rogue is able to survive and not be squishy.
Additionally, every melee class has a type of resist now. Rogue deserves to have a resist too. Its unbelievable how to this day, it doesn't have an effect to resist controls.
One last thing, PLEASE make it so it can use heal skill faster. It takes legit 3 seconds to press poison and then have to hit player then press trick. Its too much time and complicated. Fix: either make it that normal auto atk after Poison skill heal u with each auto atk, similar to Bd skill "mark of the blade"
Or when u apply poison to enemy, his auto atk doesn't deal u dmg and heals u instead, and u are able to resist under that effect. Basically a trickster way of the rogue. It would make ppl stop attacking resulting in rogue surviving for longer.
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That wouldn't be enough to make rogue viable, it needs guaranteed dodges and not based on percentage anymore. Either that or 100% dodge chance each 2 successful dodges from dodge skill. (Something close to that) Additionally it either needs some type of resist or a better heal function that dont take many clicks.
So in simplicity: better defensive functions, better and quick heal.
If any devs is reviewing these forums, DO NOT BUFF ITS DAMAGE. The damage is okay. Focus on the defense aspect of the class and you will fix this class
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Very much great skill concepts and i personally like the shadow mirage where a rogue can summon a shadow. I think it could work even though a rogue/robber type class doesn't seem like a class that can deal with summoning something as that seem more "magic" type class But all in all I would love to see that. Main issue remains ; Rogue dies fast and dodge cannot help it and besides the dmg reduction and that one ability that removes 1 control you suggested, it will still die fast even with these buffs as im assuming it would be stacks so it will take time to reach a good amount, and therefore rogue is already dead. Rogue needs a defense buff that quickly activates since otherwise it will already be dead so:
-Some ideas:
A resist skill or effect that quickly activates would help.
Another thing would be to remove dmg buff from stealth and add 20% dmg reduction effect that last for atleast 10 secs after going out from invisibility. Or to guarantee dodges from the next attacks every 2 secs, and that last for 10 secs.
I also agree to removing atk speed bonus from reflexes and replacing the effect.
With rogue being the weakest class in 2023, there are many possibilities and buffs to consider so it is endless what they can do to it now. Ive personally recommended many fixes and buffs alongside many people, Devs should study peoples recommendations and come up with some useful buffs hopefully this winter.
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On 3/12/2023 at 2:11 PM, Kamisama said:
i beleive this must be a bug and needs to be fixed @Nolan.
resilence should reduce crit dmg by maximum 60% , not entirely .
if its entirely removing crit dmg , then how is it that reaper annihilation still do large amount of crit dmg ?
edit : can you test charmer and chieftain with rage relic that if under rage their skills do crit dmg ?, and if they both had increased dmg on someone with 60% resilence, help me report thisIts not a bug. Rogue has been nerfed for so long its cancer to play and they destroyed every defense aspect to it. People like you who say things without knowing what they're talking about is whats wrong here. Pawned showed you exactly why rogue talent is useless in pvp, yet you say its a bug. If it is then the point stands. Seeker needs to get a nerf while rogue needs ALOT of fixes currently.
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Seeker absolutely needs a dmg or speed decrease, its ridiculous how they can 2k dmg on someone with 50%+ resil. This class is already top pve class. It shouldn't be this strong in pvp whatsoever. Dmg reduc, resist, high dmg, need i say more? its just cancer at this point @devs @Dr Strange @Nolan seriously need to adjust things with seeker. Not sure whoever thought seeker needed these unrealistic buffs lol. Most unbalanced game ever
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On 6/8/2023 at 3:13 PM, Raislin said:
This is why nobody takes rogues seriously.
Even if that took place, rogue would still be the weakest class lol
Rogue as a class needs a huge buff to compete with anything. Its mind-boggling that it has been in this state without a fix for so long
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Absolutely well said. This class deserves a better outcome. It used to be extremely popular now everybody runs to newest classes since literally any other option is better than rogue. Something I'd like to see including alot of people is a survivability increase. Whether that be a resist skill/effect or dmg reduction or perhaps like @Ryohei mentioned, to bring back old reflexes so that a guaranteed Dodge, would help the class survive instead of relying on its % percentage.
People have suggested countless fixes to the class so far and nothing has been done. Its pretty silly to see this class not live up to its name and being overpowered by pretty much every other class @Dr Strange @Nolan @Holmes
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@devs Can we finally fix rogue class, its been forgotten for so long now. Every class has been getting buffed yet this class has gotten extremely weak. No one uses it anymore and its gameplay is horrendous. You barely have any stats and absolutely no defense beside a weak dodge. Majority of the community agrees that this class is just unusable. @Holmes @Nolan @Dr Strange
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The amount of people complaining about this class is overwhelming to say the least. With that, I'd like to highlight easy, simple fixes to Rogue class to Devs and how they can deliver a better class. Will jump straight to the point. Currently Rogue lacks in these departments:
Survivability and AOE. Survivability because Dodge simply isn't enough and most classes have a skill that lower dodge. AOE because rogue doesn't have anything useful in Gvgs and war type of situations.
How to fix? Read below:
Survivability: Dodge, either fix it by removing the percentage % based function and make it a stable guaranteed dodge every 2-3 seconds, that would surely make rogue survive better.
Additionally, giving Furiousness skill (previously known as frenzy) a chance to trigger one of the following:
-resist 1-2 controls
-10-15% dmg reduction
-restores 3% of hp every successful dodge, no more than 30% of hp.
AOE:
Ricochet: Applies Dot to targets it hits and lowering movement speed by 10% (percentage subject to change)
There are few other fixes that could work, and what I mentioned could be tweaked accordingly to be balanced. But personally these fixes would surely make the class usable again
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15 minutes ago, Khrone said:
Detoxication
Removes 1 negative effect from the character, except for control effects, when dodging any 4 enemy attacks. If the character's health level is below 50% of the maximum, then it removes a negative effect, including the control effect. Control effects are removed in priority. The effect does not trigger more than once every 4 sec.
18 minutes ago, Khrone said:Even though i don't play as a Rogue, it hurts me to see even the Ranger is getting more focus on Dodge lately than the Rogue.
Agreed here, this talent for ranger is something that rogue desperately need at the moment as a dodge based class. Not more damage. It has some elements of my initial version that i mentioned above.
With every successful dodge restores some hp, or removes a control/debuff.
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I'm liking the Rogue class feedback from everyone. Even players with different classes are joining in now which is nice to see. Keep it coming since pretty much that is what a player can do at this point. To just keep highlighting that rogue is useless with giving beneficial input on how to upgrade this class.
As stated by most people, rogue can't survive with just dodge, so either fix it by removing the percentage % based function and make it a stable guaranteed dodge every 2-3 seconds, that would surely make rogue survive better.
Additionally, giving furiousness skill (previously known as frenzy) a chance to trigger one of the following:
-resist 1-2 controls
-10-15% dmg reduction
-restores 3% of hp every successful dodge, no more than 30% of hp.
There are few other fixes that could work, and what I mentioned could be tweaked accordingly to be balanced. But personally these fixes would surely make the class usable again
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1 hour ago, Axetricks said:
ps: some chars that don’t have accu buff, have dodge reduction
This exactly. As a rogue, alot of classes have dodge reduction so dodge is dead. Even if they didn't have dodge reduction, dodge as a stat is based on percentage and that isn't reliable as there is a 40% chance you will get hit because max dodge is 60%. And because that was pretty much rogue's only defense at best when it worked, rogue becomes defenseless. What else rogue has? Stuns? They get resisted since most classes can resist them and even if not they will survive while getting stunned. Now that everyone understands that rogue lacks in defense, please explain why devs keep increasing its dmg when it does not need more dmg
- wolfdragon99 and pawned
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20 minutes ago, Khrone said:
They could pretty much have created a Dodge focused branch for the Rogue, but instead, all 3 branches are pure damage
16 minutes ago, Godsbane said:That is what I could get behind, if I were a rogue main. But the potential was there to make something totally innovative in terms of survivability. Rogues do lack that.
It is what every Rogue been demanding honestly, every update is just a bit more "dmg" when that has proven to be ineffective for rogue. A simple Resist skill not even as strong as bd resist, or a guaranteed dodge instead of a percentage based dodge would make it stable as a class. I'd be willing to discuss these further with devs to make them more balanced in game.
The rogue forum section is also filled with people complaining and desperate for a proper fix for this class, just take a look at it
The feedback of the community is strong with rogue, alot of people including myself would support the game even further if such changes came to happen
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Fix this skill percentage for rogue. it says 25% here and in the test server it says %1. As if 25% wasn't low enough. Rogue has no resist skill, no shield, no dmg reduct, no significant debuffs besides accu reduction.
Give it some type of way to defend itself or a simple heal that dont require too many clicks because right now it dies before it can even heal itself simply because it can't defend itself. Dodge just isnt enought anymore. Do not give Rogue more dmg. Give it more defense/survivability. It's as simple as that @Dr Strange @Holmes
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8 hours ago, Drakoknight said:
Rogue needs a buff to be good.
I cannot provide a way to say how to fix it but please Rogue players do say how
It's not very complicated despite devs failing to do it, see what devs usually do is upgrade its burst dmg. That's not rogues weak point. Rogue at the moment lacks in the defensive department as well as doing dmg to multiple targets/area control.
-Reason it needs more defense is because it dies fast to any controlling enemy because rogue doesn't have any resist skill.
-Reason it needs better and more area dmg or control is to be useful in gvg and war type of scenarios as at the moment no one uses rogue for those situations.
So any skill tweaks that upgrade those departments would instantly make it playable again.
I've layed it out for devs to do their job, It's to them to fix their game. I'm quite surprised this class has still not been fixed in 2023
Here's how to make Rogue playable 2024 (Rebalance)
in Discussions and Suggestions
Posted
Some drop of reality for any dev reading this if its not obvious enough:
Rogue: 0 stable defense skill, 0 pick for group activities, 0 party support. 0 resistance.
Seeker: #1 dmger arguably, broken tank shield, max speed, resistance.
Blade dancer: top dmger, broken shield, parry, heavy armor, resistance skill, dmg reduction skill
This is sincerely a clown game if rogue doesn't get massively reworked and buffed