Bloodylipa 1 Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 So today I got into a party for garr and ofc im assumed a noob cause my dk is lv13. Shaman says dk put on a spear its much better. I say 'never', spears sucks, those bulky slow things cant even kill a critter. So the discussion is on and I try to explain the ups of having a fast agile hitting dk with armor up to his arm pits, but in the end I got kicked from party and shaman claimed his dk can hit 1.8k dmg in two hits on my shaman (like a slowpoke spear dk would even get close) anyway instead of argueing like 12 year olds about whos wrong or right and whos dad has the coolest job im going to use the universal language of math to argue for me. A 1h def build dk has crazy dmg cutting properties - follow me now. (+) First lv5 dark shield has a 25% activation chance (well my numbers said 26% (*recieving 100 boar hits) but lets round it to 25%) formula for probability of: A or B = Pa + Pb - (Pa*Pb) which gives us --> For probability of: A or B or C or D = Pa + Pb + Pc + Pd - ( (Pa*Pb*Pc*Pd) + (Pa*Pb*Pc) + (Pa*Pb*Pd) + (Pa*Pc*Pd) + (Pb*Pc*Pd) + (Pa*Pb) + (Pa*Pc) + (Pa*Pd) + (Pb*Pc) + (Pb*Pd) + (Pc*Pd) ) Where.. A = Dodge = 20% B = Parry = 8% C = Block = 12% D = Dark Shield = 25% So the formula says the total chance of any of these four outcomes to occure without overlapping. For say I cant block and parry the same hit. Ok lets start.. Probability of: A or B or C or D = 0,2+0,08+0,12+0,25 - ( (0,2*0,08*0,12*0,25) + (0,2*0,08*0,12) + (0,2*0,08*0,25) + (0,2*0,12*0,25) + (0,08*0,12*0,25) + (0,2*0,08) + (0,2*0,12) + (0,2*0,25) + (0,08*0,12) + (0,08*0,25) + (0,12*0,25) ) ==> A or B or C or D = 0,65 - (0,00048+0,00192+0,016+0,024+0,05+0,0096+0,02+0,03) Which rounded is A or B or C or D = 0,65 - 0,165 = 0,485 = 48,5% So a heavily armored shield weilding DK have almost a 50/50 chance to ignore or reduce incoming damage. Atleast im impressed considering all my shaman has is 7,5% dodge which never happens.. So thats my argument for a shield weilding DK beats spears any day and that spears are soooo slow your opponent will fall asleep before you get your DK trying to land that darkness stun. I should also say these are no dream numbers, Slays DKs stats are just barely lower then the numbers ive used. Good night :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouLBlizZ 2 Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 is the formula correct? :shok: if it is i want a DK ;D .Also i agree with bloody DK with sword and shield is better :good: .My rogue with 30+% dodge was ever to dodge 4x in a row a DK using their spear.Spear is powerfull yea no doubt but they are really slow.the problem is will Dev making a sword with dark stat in it in the future? :unknw: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slay 2 Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 Good guide Bloody but I wonder how you could make such formula? But, yes no doubt my DK have high chance to beat any 2h melee. 12% block is my dream, since it need the best shield in the game. 10% parry very easy to get. 2hander just a toy to any range class Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodylipa 1 Posted September 21, 2012 Author Share Posted September 21, 2012 Good guide Bloody but I wonder how you could make such formula?But, yes no doubt my DK have high chance to beat any 2h melee.12% block is my dream, since it need the best shield in the game.10% parry very easy to get.2hander just a toy to any range class I didnt make the formula, that would of landed me a mayor math award if I could prove it :) It is a proved formula, I just adapted it for my nerdy cause! At a university level this formula will be apart of your first math statistics class ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guwer87 0 Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 I didnt make the formula, that would of landed me a mayor math award if I could prove it :) It is a proved formula, I just adapted it for my nerdy cause! At a university level this formula will be apart of your first math statistics class ;) Ha, i love statistics:) I have it on my stydies almost every year.. im tired of them but its very useful in future. And ur post is an example u statistic use:) Me gusta :good: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slay 2 Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 I didnt make the formula, that would of landed me a mayor math award if I could prove it :) It is a proved formula, I just adapted it for my nerdy cause! At a university level this formula will be apart of your first math statistics class ;) I never got statistic ;D But i feel that 48.5% is a little too much i guess. So you trying to say that 48.5% chance of any that defense skill will be triggered? In that case mine is around 30% hmm ;D yea I feel so... :blush: Is Thread of darkness at lv2 is 10% chance to be triggered? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodylipa 1 Posted September 21, 2012 Author Share Posted September 21, 2012 Well I believe these values are slightly higher then your actual stats. To take a wild guess your maybe more like 42-44% to trigger any def ability. But I mean its all statistics so if it feels like 30% one fight it can be 60% another fight for it to be the avrage chance you need infinate trials to close in on the actual value. The higher number of trials the more accurate and technically only a infinate number of trials will close in on the real value. ex say you take 100 hits you get 30% you expand the study to 1000 hits you get 39% 10 000 hits 47% ... And so on with low number of trials it can be very inaccurate from the real true infinate value just a part of sttatistics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leo Acq 0 Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 What would be the block, parry and dodge % of a Speared DK? And the difference of atk with a shielded one? I dont have a DK, I'm just curious ::) . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodylipa 1 Posted September 21, 2012 Author Share Posted September 21, 2012 Im not so sure, im still low level at 13 my stats are dodge 14% parry 4% Block 0% with spear im guessing 18+ have around dodge 20% parry 7% block 0% and its up to the player what level of dark shield they use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleriath 0 Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 Hi Bloody, one question, Parry, dodge block and dark shield only works with physical attks? Magic always hit? Tnks.- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slay 2 Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 Hi Bloody, one question, Parry, dodge block and dark shield only works with physical attks? Magic always hit? Tnks.- dodge & block works on all kind attacks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodylipa 1 Posted September 21, 2012 Author Share Posted September 21, 2012 And dark shield soaks magic damage on your physical def so dark shield adds major magic res when it kicks in against magic attacks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slay 2 Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 And dark shield soaks magic damage on your physical def so dark shield adds major magic res when it kicks in against magic attacks. yup DK have 3 def skills to counter range attacks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odin 1 Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 Don't forget enemy accuracy cuts your dodge. Block and parry (and shield) aren't affected by enemy accuracy. Good numbers which is why I enjoyed my sword shield dk better than my spear dk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodylipa 1 Posted September 22, 2012 Author Share Posted September 22, 2012 Ya as you probably understand my formula takes no rgards to enemy stats like accuracy, that will obviously lower dks procentage. If you had ws formula for accuracy/dodge relation you would haft to count true dodge against that opponents accuracy and then re-calculate the new procentage with the true dodge against the specific opponent. (Also like odin said the other stats are un-changed parry, block, dark shield.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skull3us 0 Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 Yeah, I didn't even try to work thru your formula. I'm not a idiot I just dont have time but it's obvious you spent time on it so I say. Good Job! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodylipa 1 Posted November 22, 2012 Author Share Posted November 22, 2012 finally hit 18 yay, my current arena tank stats. youll see its very close to my math example :) crit 20% dodge 20% Accuracy 9% Resilience 8.1% Atk speed 5.1% Penetration 0% Parry 9.1% Block 10.9% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juoppoja 2 Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 Wow, youve done some really good work here man! :drinks: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vmissmegan 0 Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 :rofl: awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackxhole 0 Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 awesome ;D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megadethbr 3 Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 finally hit 18 yay, my current arena tank stats. youll see its very close to my math example :) crit 20% dodge 20% Accuracy 9% Resilience 8.1% Atk speed 5.1% Penetration 0% Parry 9.1% Block 10.9% Shield has block enchant?? or u prefer def or other stats? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodylipa 1 Posted December 13, 2012 Author Share Posted December 13, 2012 I prefer full block, it is one of the stats I value the most, but I know some people use def enchants on their shields too. Theirs alot of ways to build dk gear (for both 2h and shield) but I put alot of efforts into def mechanics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodylipa 1 Posted December 16, 2012 Author Share Posted December 16, 2012 To good not to share. Played random 2x2 arena today. Facing 2 rangers, me and my partner mess up and target one ranger each. And so the rangers kill my partner fairly fast and I get left 2v1. rangers hp 60-75% each My hp 80-90% after killing 1 ranger im down to 40-50% hp and when im finally killing the 2nd ranger im left standing with around 270hp. During this time I got 2 knockbacks and 2 traps and both rangers got to use blessing. I didnt think id win obviously, but with alot of luck all my dmg soaking mechanics kept me alive and victorious over 2 rangers. Just thought id share a mind blowing story of the strength of a shield :o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dealesis 0 Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 So have I understood, that you told us how good shield is, but never showed how bad 2H weapons are? And it seems to me that the dark shield activates most of the time of this ~50% chance of activating, so how much it really affects? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodylipa 1 Posted December 17, 2012 Author Share Posted December 17, 2012 Yes im speaking for the shield, but im not saying 2h is worthless. Ill say it like vanityx spears/sworda are slow and without high amps they are a disaster. With high amps they can deal devestating burst dmg though. But their main problem is the slow swing speed and dk is sensetive to swing speed. But I know good dks using both spears and 2h swords. Im promoting shields cause of amazing def abilities and a great benefit of having a fasster weapon. I feel like I haft to show and have arguments, cause alot of people will bully and call dks and barbs noob without any good arguments cause they use shield in arena. As a quick summary, this is my opinion. shields - amazing def, fast and agile, alot of gear choices Bad - lowest burst dmg (but not nesserally dps), lower accuracy, lower penetration 2h sword - great dmg, alot of gear choices, doubles great with def builds Bad - slower atk speed, less def mechanics 2h spear - amazing burst dmg Bad - slowest atk speed, least def mechanics, few gear choices. im not saying one is best, though im not a fan of spear. Id take 2h sword over spear but I am saying shield is definatly not noob or worthless. You get spammed by haters for using a shield even when you win lol. dark shield activation is 25% at lv5 and reduces a good portion of dmg. I think the other dark shield thread is a great estimate, that every 30 or so def adds +1 dmg reduction to dark shields soak value. Its seems to fit my current soak good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juoppoja 2 Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 i used book of oblivion yesterday i thin and now my build is (i use 17lvl arena 2H sword) the green fast ''strong blow'' 5 the pull skill 2 the stun + dark magic hit 2 AND THE MIGHTY DARK SHIELD 5 so i use the 2H sword basically atm and mine normal dmg is 346 i think and penetration something about 7% and i think this is relyy good buils but now sparing ap to arena body, boots & helm. So im recommending 2H sword or shield +1H sword theyre best IMO. ::) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodylipa 1 Posted December 21, 2012 Author Share Posted December 21, 2012 Yay finally broke pushed parry over 10% and block over 12%. Def mechanics are now: dodge 20.2 parry 10.1 block 12.1 next goal is to get def pass 4500. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juoppoja 2 Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 Yay finally broke pushed parry over 10% and block over 12%. Def mechanics are now: dodge 20.2 parry 10.1 block 12.1 next goal is to get def pass 4500. Wow rly good, but what if the enemy player has rly good accuracy? Cuz im working my accuracy good as i can, its now only 13,(something)% If ill get 20,2% accu will i hit u dodge? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodylipa 1 Posted December 23, 2012 Author Share Posted December 23, 2012 Wow rly good, but what if the enemy player has rly good accuracy? Cuz im working my accuracy good as i can, its now only 13,(something)% If ill get 20,2% accu will i hit u dodge? yes as far as i know accuracy eliminates dodge. So 20.2% accuracy should if its correct lower my dodge to 0%. Dodge is better against mages which have lower acc (if they arnt using sudden doom). I like to have parry on my blade over dodge, cause it helps alot more against high acc melee (mainly rouges) then dodge. Low acc have hell fighting me, ive fought bds 1v1 and lost only 300-400hp when they are dead, cause i keep dodging/parry/block all power strikes and hamstring :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zam 3 Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 Well with sword you would have lower dmg so healers survive better. With spear you destroy them before they heal much. So spear is better to use vs healers and mobs. If you use your normal hit + exhalation then immediately thorn you won't face much of a speed problem. And keep in mind that spear's thorn is much stronger than sword's thorn. It all depends on what you are fighting. My dk has been in situations where shied would hv lost. Example: arena all dead exept me and a shaman/druid. He had full hp idk what I had. I killed him with spear before he could run or something. He started to run but I got crit as the final hit so it finished him off right before he completed his first step. If I had sword or even 2h sword he would hv survived and ran and kitted me. With +4 lv 15 arena spear I do about 280(normal)+220(dark)+440(thorn). So about 900-940 dmg. Awsome as shit when I crit them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luvis 1 Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 ;D I still love my spear DK though.....Bonus more Dark magic The speed doesnt really a matter to me ;D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodylipa 1 Posted January 23, 2013 Author Share Posted January 23, 2013 Well with sword you would have lower dmg so healers survive better. With spear you destroy them before they heal much. So spear is better to use vs healers and mobs. If you use your normal hit + exhalation then immediately thorn you won't face much of a speed problem. And keep in mind that spear's thorn is much stronger than sword's thorn. It all depends on what you are fighting. My dk has been in situations where shied would hv lost. Example: arena all dead exept me and a shaman/druid. He had full hp idk what I had. I killed him with spear before he could run or something. He started to run but I got crit as the final hit so it finished him off right before he completed his first step. If I had sword or even 2h sword he would hv survived and ran and kitted me. With +4 lv 15 arena spear I do about 280(normal)+220(dark)+440(thorn). So about 900-940 dmg. Awsome as shit when I crit them. correction, 2h does not do more dmg then 1h. It does higher burst dmg, but total dps is very similar. And spear dmg depends more on crit, if you crit you do good dmg, no crit and it sucks. 1h has a more stable and dependent base dmg. If you ever played diablo2, spear is like lightning magic and 1h is like fire magic. and notes about fighting healers 1v1, can be done with 1h. Ive killed plenty healers 1v1 both in arena and pvp-cave. If they have full hp a good crit burst cant do it, but fast reliant dmg grinding them down will keep stressing them while my dodge and block keeps negating dmg. Just make sure not to waste threads until you have the chance to kill healer. Also when I dodge or block range attacks I dont get the split second stop, which makes me move faster after kiters then 2h DKs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoleyKathi 120 Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 correction, 2h does not do more dmg then 1h. It does higher burst dmg, but total dps is very similar. And spear dmg depends more on crit, if you crit you do good dmg, no crit and it sucks. 1h has a more stable and dependent base dmg. If you ever played diablo2, spear is like lightning magic and 1h is like fire magic. and notes about fighting healers 1v1, can be done with 1h. Ive killed plenty healers 1v1 both in arena and pvp-cave. If they have full hp a good crit burst cant do it, but fast reliant dmg grinding them down will keep stressing them while my dodge and block keeps negating dmg. Just make sure not to waste threads until you have the chance to kill healer. Also when I dodge or block range attacks I dont get the split second stop, which makes me move faster after kiters then 2h DKs. Mr" I know everything bout Dk" You and vanityx should come to us Server and instruct me to become a better one, btw i love ur topics ;D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fawlks 0 Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 Mr" I know everything bout Dk" You and vanityx should come to us Server and instruct me to become a better one, btw i love ur topics ;D Hes just sharing what he knows about dk skills, cause of him im making sword+shield build, if u wanna become a better one, learn with him.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodylipa 1 Posted January 23, 2013 Author Share Posted January 23, 2013 @Fawlkes - thank you for the kind words :drinks: I dont want so sound like a know it all, but when people claim that 1h dmg suck I haft to set things straight. Of course spears can do doog dmg, but so can 1h. You haft to look at them from 2 angles, do you want burst dmg or dps. Its a missconception that 1h weapons do low dmg, if you look to dps or arena dmg results they are even or sometimes higher with 1h, but of course this also depends on factors like acc, crit and if opponent focus their stuns on you or not. Im just sick of getting called noob in arena, cause I use 1h and then we rape and people still call me noob. I even get spammed for using provoke to dodge other melees stuns, I guess some people dont understand that its not always you want to tank a spear burst... I prefer to avoid it lol need to ask questions 1h - me and mecha 2h sword - frostblade spear - vanityx my fav of specific attack type :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pembasmi32 1 Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 So today I got into a party for garr and ofc im assumed a noob cause my dk is lv13. Shaman says dk put on a spear its much better. I say 'never', spears sucks, those bulky slow things cant even kill a critter. So the discussion is on and I try to explain the ups of having a fast agile hitting dk with armor up to his arm pits, but in the end I got kicked from party and shaman claimed his dk can hit 1.8k dmg in two hits on my shaman (like a slowpoke spear dk would even get close) anyway instead of argueing like 12 year olds about whos wrong or right and whos dad has the coolest job im going to use the universal language of math to argue for me. A 1h def build dk has crazy dmg cutting properties - follow me now. (+) First lv5 dark shield has a 25% activation chance (well my numbers said 26% (*recieving 100 boar hits) but lets round it to 25%) formula for probability of: A or B = Pa + Pb - (Pa*Pb) which gives us --> For probability of: A or B or C or D = Pa + Pb + Pc + Pd - ( (Pa*Pb*Pc*Pd) + (Pa*Pb*Pc) + (Pa*Pb*Pd) + (Pa*Pc*Pd) + (Pb*Pc*Pd) + (Pa*Pb) + (Pa*Pc) + (Pa*Pd) + (Pb*Pc) + (Pb*Pd) + (Pc*Pd) ) Where.. A = Dodge = 20% B = Parry = 8% C = Block = 12% D = Dark Shield = 25% So the formula says the total chance of any of these four outcomes to occure without overlapping. For say I cant block and parry the same hit. Ok lets start.. Probability of: A or B or C or D = 0,2+0,08+0,12+0,25 - ( (0,2*0,08*0,12*0,25) + (0,2*0,08*0,12) + (0,2*0,08*0,25) + (0,2*0,12*0,25) + (0,08*0,12*0,25) + (0,2*0,08) + (0,2*0,12) + (0,2*0,25) + (0,08*0,12) + (0,08*0,25) + (0,12*0,25) ) ==> A or B or C or D = 0,65 - (0,00048+0,00192+0,016+0,024+0,05+0,0096+0,02+0,03) Which rounded is A or B or C or D = 0,65 - 0,165 = 0,485 = 48,5% So a heavily armored shield weilding DK have almost a 50/50 chance to ignore or reduce incoming damage. Atleast im impressed considering all my shaman has is 7,5% dodge which never happens.. So thats my argument for a shield weilding DK beats spears any day and that spears are soooo slow your opponent will fall asleep before you get your DK trying to land that darkness stun. I should also say these are no dream numbers, Slays DKs stats are just barely lower then the numbers ive used. Good night :) wow nice :shok: :shok: :shok: :shok: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luvis 1 Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 :blush: Just like Poley said....U should Visit Sapphire sometime... :blush: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megadethbr 3 Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 I gonna try 1h+shield... when i reach lv15...will b like this: Parry 7.7% Dodge 18.6% Block 8.1% (no using armor with block....if :lol: i finish chainless i use bg(gives +1.9%) or i buy firm mail Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodylipa 1 Posted January 28, 2013 Author Share Posted January 28, 2013 Dont feel like only lv17 and 18 gears are the best. Sometimes lv13 might be better for your stat combination then high level items. My DK use lv13, lv15, lv17 (lab too) and lv18 gear. Personally my favorite is firm mail - love that tank armor :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luvis 1 Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 Dont feel like only lv17 and 18 gears are the best. Sometimes lv13 might be better for your stat combination then high level items. My DK use lv13, lv15, lv17 (lab too) and lv18 gear. Personally my favorite is firm mail - love that tank armor :) ;D Use CC better if U like firm mail ;D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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