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No Nerf for charmers , really ?

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Definitely they need some nerfs... PvP (arena) ones should be:

 

-Not allowing the 7 yard stun with passive + relic. (seriously that crap ruins arena, you only can kill good DKs/Barbs/Charmers abusing it if they missplay, they have the upper hand all the time) Barbarian/DK and Charmer are also best 1v1 classes ( i know they do not balance for this, is just to show how lame these classes are atm)

 

-Eye of the legion shouldnt reveal stealth units from so many yards, rogues/seekers already screwed vs charmer because they wont be able to re-enter stealth again with dogs/birds hitting them, also this classes lack stun and wont one shot a good charmer

 

- Fix charmer dogs on low lvl arena

 

-Decrease charmer overall dmg output if enemy stunned by them, kinda like warden damage nerf. They are a support after all 

 

Buffs:

-Making that meteorite skill 5x5 or 7x7 radius for help on castles and war of territories

 

PvE they are kinda strong, only noobs or trolls are crying about it

 

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27 minutes ago, koszpl said:

Definitely they need some nerfs... PvP (arena) ones should be:

 

-Not allowing the 7 yard stun with passive + relic. (seriously that crap ruins arena, you only can kill good DKs/Barbs/Charmers abusing it if they missplay, they have the upper hand all the time) Barbarian/DK and Charmer are also best 1v1 classes ( i know they do not balance for this, is just to show how lame these classes are atm)

 

i agree it would be better to allow the use of that relic for dmg skills only.

 

27 minutes ago, koszpl said:

-Eye of the legion shouldnt reveal stealth units from so many yards, rogues/seekers already screwed vs charmer because they wont be able to re-enter stealth again with dogs/birds hitting them, also this classes lack stun and wont one shot a good charmer

 

well for sure rogues and seekers get rekt by this skill, but mages got same skill. Maybe nerf the disclosing range for both (mages are less strong but ethereal barrier makes them impossible to one shot with a rogue)

 

27 minutes ago, koszpl said:

- Fix charmer dogs on low lvl arena

 

Yes pls make dog's hp depends on character's lvl, so it's stronger at high lvl but can't be used like it is today at low lvl. make it just a dmg assistance, if dmg isn't nerf that's alrdy very strong. Lvl 10 charmers can have dog with 1500hp dealing same dmg that's insane they just run and what can u do? lower their hp a lot so they can be killed, and pls make them die when charmers die... (cuz wtf when u meet 3 charmers in lvl 10 3v3  u always die from dogs even if u kill all)

In my opinion that's the first thing to fix

 

27 minutes ago, koszpl said:

 

-Decrease charmer overall dmg output if enemy stunned by them, kinda like warden damage nerf. They are a support after all 

 

I disagree with this. i don't see any reason why it should be so.

Nevertheless i think bird's dmg should be nerfed: it's alrdy an excellent healing skill, and it's charmer's most op dmg skill (dealing more dmg than charmer's auto attacks)

 

27 minutes ago, koszpl said:

 

Buffs:

-Making that meteorite skill 5x5 or 7x7 radius for help on castles and war of territories

 

Maybe, that could be a good idea. Or decrease coodown, idk. More AoE dmg would be good for mcs

 

27 minutes ago, koszpl said:

 

PvE they are kinda strong, only noobs or trolls are crying about it

 

... I won't comment this :pin2:

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Some considerations about the "7 yard stun is OP" meme:

 

Barbarian's charge: Has a chance to miss (ie. not reliable) and puts himself in a disadvantageous position (far from his team and close to the enemy team). Learn to use it to your advantage.

 

Death knight's threads of darkness: The skill itself does not stun. The Death knight will only get an instant 7 yard stun if he has both blow of silence and death call activated. He can keep up blow of silence all the time but he can't do the same with death call. Death call also has a huge visual cue so all you have to do is to wait for this skill to fade out before entering the 7 yards range. If the Death knight uses threads of darkness on you while not having those 2 experts skill activated (blow of silence and death call), you will always have the initiative after being hit with threads of darkness, but most people don't known that and/or have slow fingers so they come crying on forum instead.

 

Charmer's knowledge of the dead man: It doesn't activate if the attack is dodged/blocked/parried or does 0 damage. Which means any class with a shielding skill can easily counter it (even druid's healing barrier can counter this skill).

 

Funny thing is that Paladin has a 6 yard aoe stun (4 yard + 3x3 radius, can get initiative against every other class except warlock) and no one is complaining it is op.

In summary, this is another biased topic with many players with poor game knowledge trying to blame the game instead of themselves for their losses.

 

Edited by nabnecro

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5 hours ago, nabnecro said:

Funny thing is that Paladin has a 6 yard aoe stun (4 yard + 3x3 radius, can get initiative against every other class except warlock) and no one is complaining it is op.

 

 

What did ypu expect when most of these complainers are elfs

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What I hate in these complaints, is that they highlight the good abilities of a class in a way that they seem overpowered, but in the meantime they forgot to mention the weaknesses of the class.

There is no class that's good at everything. And excuse me, but why do you complain that a maxed out, full amplified barbarian or dk or charmer beats your ass? That's what those players get for investing in the game.

I may even consider accepting and agreeing with the complaints if they were spectated from an even point of view. Most of the complainers compare themselves to maxed out players. Foolish.

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I didn't mention Barbs and DKs because they aren't really like charmer's 7 yard stun, and you mentioned why and how they can be countered.

You can't kite out the Charmer like DK, because he can just cycle the 4 skills again and again. Then there is this little chance that this hit gets blocked (not everyone can) or dodged (accuracy solves it). Charge also has chance to fail AND chance to miss with dodge/parry/block, so we're fine on that.

It also increases the damage a lot, so not even the best shield (unless maybe maxed up, which isn't really a PvP build) will make it deal 0.

 

Now the funny part about Paladins..

It is very rare to get advantage of that 6th yard unless you're talking about 1v1. In Arena you don't wanna sacrifice the whole radius to catch the farthest dude, normally, you wanna catch as many as possible, and that can lead to stunning in range of 4 to 5, or even 3 yards > easily outranged. And if you don't catch all, then you're getting controlled and eventually killed, so add to that the high risk, like Barb's Charge.

And it's funny how you kinda contradict yourself mentioning 4 classes that can stun the Paladin before jumping, and then wonder why is no one talking about Paladin being OP for the 5-6 yard AoE stun. And if it comes to being 5 yards, then you can add almost every class can stun before the Paladin jumps.

Also Call can easily fail due to screen bug even if the opponents didn't give any effort to separate and avoid getting stunned in that small 3x3 radius. You talked about that kind of people that complain about stuff that may look OP but you can easily figure out. You're not one of those who stand on top of each other in a 3x3 radius in Arena, right?

So let's and stay in the topic and not act like perfect community-healthy players and all-knowing and belittle everyone who oppose us. :thumbs_up1:

Edited by Gladiator

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4 yards +3*3 = 5 yards stun... Ok 6 yards if u hit in the corner of the 3x3 area, so u ned to be on a different line that ur opponent's one. And u know how harder is it to make good use of the max distance bcs of the way it works: ahve to click on an area, leads to big fails if try to use max distance and the enemy steps back, depends on screen bugs...

 

I am not complaining of my loses since i barely plays arena. If u want to know my class is druid lvl 26 build 3/4 link 4/4 barrier 5/5 barkskin so full pve. I could complain about last bardsong modifications, bcs the problem was perma stun for pvp (i guess) so they should have increased CD time in my opinion but they reduced area so now it's harder to protect ur team in pve bcs of screen bugs when u are slowed down by many mobs, and druids still can perma stun...

But that's not the subject right?

 

I don't think i have such a poor knowledge of the game. I didn't know for knowledge of the deadman 0 dmg part, i have to admit that. But i try to learn, and im glad to know it now.

 

Yes those 7 yards stuns can't work 100% of the time. My opinion remains that this advantage is a bit too strong and it should be balanced (btw the DK can run back waiting for death call's CD u know), Moreover even with 5yards stuns we all know those three classes

Btw im making a lvl 24 dk

 

@Jcbreff yes i am elf and no i didn't stated it bcs of the reason above: stunning from 6 yards with harad's call is almost impossible

when koszpl spoke about eye of darkness i said i thought then dragon eye should be nerfed the same way

And i cried about wardens too cuz i thought they were too tanky.

Was quite disapointed with the update that nerfed the dmg instead... feels bad for wardens: must be so boring now

 

@BennyBT Sry if u are not talking about me.

If yes as i said arena is not that much my cup of tea. And i wasn't talking about op players, just about some classes abilities.

Can't i say that i find something unbalanced? We know all classes have their advantages and weaknesses... Im trying my best to detail why i think something is too strong or why it is too weak. This is a topic about charmers and i say what i think about charmers, i want to debate.

 

Guys i know there are many complaints and it can be upsetting. But in the last posts i think we were trying to discuss, i didn't read all the first posts of this topic (i haven't only this to do) but i don't see why you are comming so fast with the "elves crying about mcs cuz they don't know how to play" or vice-versa stuff.

 

Cuz in that way i could answer as well there are mcs here defending their own classes... that's how the debate dies

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The extra damage and the stun only activate if the first attack attack does more than 0 damage. Again, you are complaining about a skill you have no idea how it works. Which is exactly the behavior of someone that cries instead of trying to figure out the game.

Edited by nabnecro

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20 hours ago, nabnecro said:

The extra damage and the stun only activate if the first attack attack does more than 0 damage. Again, you are complaining about a skill you have no idea how it works. Which is exactly the behavior of someone that cries instead of trying to figure out the game.

I cannot log the game atm to look at it or ask smbdy, i found mostly russian vids explaining charmer's expert skills in details. And even if i could look in books'store u know how detailed is the description.

So? I checked quickly forum's charmer section, i certainely missed things, but again i cannot read anything here. Have I the right not to be omniscient?

 

And as i said i know the 7 yard stuns aren't 100% effective, my point is that i think that the fact of having a 7 yard stun, working all the time or not, is a too big advantage.

Edited by Pecleb
quick to quickly

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First of all, it is a 7 yard stun that can be countered by:

Necro shield skill 

Shaman shield skill 

Dk shield skill 

Priest shield skill

Mage ethereal barrier

Paladin shield skill

Bd shield skill 

Druid healing barrier

Barbarians and mage's anti cc

High dodge 

 

In other words, it can be countered by half of the existing classes.

 

Secondly, from where did the argument that having more range on stun is op came from? I never saw any necro complaining that druid and paladin can get initiative over necro's 4 yard stun and stun cycle him to death. This only matters if you think the game is a series of 1v1 matches. Which you all should have learned  by now that it's not. If you got stunned, it's your teammate's job to support you and keep you alive. This is basic strategy that every 1v1happy player have difficulty to learn.

 

 

 

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a stun that can be countered by half of existing classes... but except for priest necro and mage u can just wait for the shield to go off (as for dk to deal 0 u need to have low dmg)

I understand u can think this isn't such an advantage. I just think differently. can I?

 

U are asking where does this idea comes from? Sry but any idea got a birth right? So bcs nobody thought like this before nobody can say it?

As for the game being 1v1 i know it very well, and i think that first stun still remains an advantage. Less efficient in many situations, but for instance 2v2 x2 charmers could stun both first and in 3v3 deathknight can split the ennemy pt to make a 3v1 for a short time, while the opponenets can't reach their teammate.

 

I don't say it's impossible to counter/to find a pt to bypass this long range stun, nor that it was 100% efficient. I just say i think it's a big advantage and maybe it will be better if that wasn't possible.

Ur point is that it is not bcs there are plenty of ways to counter it. Fine, it's good that u explain why u think so and try to convince me.

But i don't see any reason to come so fast with: "u have poor game knowledge","u are crying instead to try to figure out","where does this idea comes from","game is not 1v1, playing as a team is basic strategy u should have learned"

 

As Gladiatoor said: "let's not act like perfect community-healthy players and all-knowing and belittle everyone who oppose us". Could u pls? U certainly know charmer better than i do, and i am happy to hear ur arguments and to learn about this class.

 

Let's stop our sterile fight?

Edited by Pecleb

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