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Gladiator

[Rant] Why do devs hate Paladins?

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so...idk if this has been said but I'll put my opinion here

1.sun seal has been changed in the upcoming update i.e, the chances of it working against all mobs and bosses has been increased

*checked it myself in test server and yup it's true*

also it gives 20%lifesteal on affected target so I think it's defensive enough.

2. sacred shield.....nothing much to say your right it sucks compared to all other shields in game

devs better buff it soon

3.illumination has also been changed in the upcoming update

now it deals damage to all targets kinda like dks skill not a great fix but it's better than the previous one

 

and about pala being defensive it's hard to say yes or no coz pala is the only class on elf side to reach 10k+ def without any buffs from skills and with new skill it definitely makes it more defensive so I say new skill is good as far as pve concerns and also good in PvP if u have good resi

 

going back to all other skills

banner is good as always

harrads call.mechanics has been changed so u don't need banner to use it now u can just jump like mages teleport skill but the sad part is the number of affected targets has been limited with respect to its lvl

repellant strike just another dmg skill with stun

 

 

over all palas can be great tanks if u have the right build

but in the end when compared to dks and barbs pala is as week as always

Ty for ur comment (:

So ermm we resaid that devs updated paladin yes about sun seal and illu also sub at 4/4 is 16%life steal for 1target

 

Gona talk about paladin in concept or being the lowest tank, its not about defense % only, bd has a shield that absorbs alot of damage at 4/4 which makes it better combined of sacred shield and the xtra def of the paladin

 

Also new pala skill sucks 90second cd, 4/4 is 45sec usable, other 45second we watch anime

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so...idk if this has been said but I'll put my opinion here

1.sun seal has been changed in the upcoming update i.e, the chances of it working against all mobs and bosses has been increased

*checked it myself in test server and yup it's true*

also it gives 20%lifesteal on affected target so I think it's defensive enough.

2. sacred shield.....nothing much to say your right it sucks compared to all other shields in game

devs better buff it soon

3.illumination has also been changed in the upcoming update

now it deals damage to all targets kinda like dks skill not a great fix but it's better than the previous one

 

and about pala being defensive it's hard to say yes or no coz pala is the only class on elf side to reach 10k+ def without any buffs from skills and with new skill it definitely makes it more defensive so I say new skill is good as far as pve concerns and also good in PvP if u have good resi

 

going back to all other skills

banner is good as always

harrads call.mechanics has been changed so u don't need banner to use it now u can just jump like mages teleport skill but the sad part is the number of affected targets has been limited with respect to its lvl

repellant strike just another dmg skill with stun

 

 

over all palas can be great tanks if u have the right build

but in the end when compared to dks and barbs pala is as week as always

Yeah, I didn't deny the buffs that they gave us, but don't forget, those skills, Illumination and Sun Seal (16% lifesteal btw), that were buffed were almost useless, so those buffs had to be done.

 

And exactly what Lallouss said, it's not about the reachable defense, skills form most of the tanking aspect of a class. Bladedancers have too much damage, that if combined with high life steal, he can tank better than Paladins + faster kills. In addition to the Shield which is way stronger than ours.

 

Call doesn't need Banner but the the radius is decreased to 1 yard(1 yard is even smaller than 3x3 square, 1 yard means only 1 yard to the right, left, up, and down side of the Paladin). Now we have a jump skill but not as effective as before with stun and damage. You can't even compare it to Mage's jump, Call has 30 seconds cd, while Time Warp has 12 seconds, and it deals too low damage now.

It definitely needs a cd decrease after that fix imo.

 

The new skill is not bad with its defense addition, I think it is like a 4/5 or 3/5 Druid shield and for all party members in the area, the only problem there is its cooldown. And I'm not sure if it lasts 60 seconds, last time I checked it lasted only for half of its cooldown bar.

 

Repellant Strike is good enough, the only complain about it is the push effect, it is useless and sometimes bad :P , but insignificant anyway.

 

By the way, Barbarians have a stronger version of that skill, the stun lasts longer with level up and has lower cd.

And Deathknights have a better version of Sun Seal, because it buffs the character itself, so AoE skills are also buffed with life steal. If Sun Seal were to be casted on a character to buff its life steal with the same amount, it'd be better than being casted on a mob, it could maintain its supportive role too if it'd be like a casted aura that buffs life steal so you can apply to yourself or allies.

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I'm fine with the current state of Paladins, I think it is the best state ever since experts came out. Although we aren't close to being as tanky as other tanks, we have now pretty cool AoE damage output and control.

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By the way, there is something that many aren't aware of, and I just realized its big importance recently. I don't know if this is intended but why the heck do Paladin have the lowest base HP among all tanks? Like, what's the point of it? Do devs really hate Pala? :nea:

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Yes 300-400 HP is the difference between same geared Paladin using shield and Bladedancer at lvl28. The difference gets even bigger with craft gears with % HP.

Why? :aggressive:

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Lol, every other tank has some sort of heal skill, what's your point?

So a DK with 6k HP getting healed more than 500 no crit x6 times isn't a heal skill?

Edited by Gladiator

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Lol, every other tank has some sort of heal skill, what's your point?

 

everyday there are news about our game.

Today every tank has a healing skill, what a time to be alive.

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everyday there are news about our game.

Today every tank has a healing skill, what a time to be alive.

Post updated, read again please. I forgot to mention Barb's Battle fury, but I guess no need.

Edited by Gladiator

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Post updated, read again please. I forgot to mention Barb's Battle fury, but I guess no need.

 

still can't see any DK healing skill. Maybe this skill has a name?

Battle Fury is an expert skill, we're talking about basic class skills.

Edited by r0land

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Secret Reserves. 

I thought you play DK. :P

 

oh, cmon, one more expert skill about health regeneration, not healing.

Let's be correct about mechanics.

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That doesn't make sense lol, basic or not, I'm talking about high level gameplay where everyone has expert skills.

Lvl28 Paladin's average HP without craft armors is around 4.5k and others get more than 5k, in addition to crazy strong (k I won't call it healing) regeneration skills. So technically a DK has 8-9k HP. So overall, DK has more HP and more self-HP regeneration skill.

Edited by Gladiator

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With other tanks new expert survivability skill and life steal update, paladin should have(at least) same HP with other tanks.

The HP difference were already there before expert skill and life steal update right roland? isn't it bit outdated?

I think paladin low HP only suitable for lv 18 below and older days.

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With other tanks new expert survivability skill and life steal update, paladin should have(at least) same HP with other tanks.

The HP difference were already there before expert skill and life steal update right roland? isn't it bit outdated?

I think paladin low HP only suitable for lv 18 below and older days.

Thank you.

Other tanks have in addition better survival skills than Paladin, and that's besides the regeneration ones. And you're taking away from Paladin's HP for a single skill.

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With other tanks new expert survivability skill and life steal update, paladin should have(at least) same HP with other tanks.

The HP difference were already there before expert skill and life steal update right roland? isn't it bit outdated?

I think paladin low HP only suitable for lv 18 below and older days.

 

that's why you have a choice between four different tank classes in our game.

And ofc a choice to leave paladin to other players, not a big problem.

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> Leave this class and join that class

> Balance

It's definitely not the solution. I played the class for more than 3 years. Back when we had only basic skills and even only few experts, that HP difference was ok because we still had the healing edge, but now? As I said, both other shielders have the ability to regen HP, there is no more advantage for Paladins that requires HP reduction. Isn't that logical?

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> Leave this class and join that class

> Balance

It's definitely not the solution. I played the class for more than 3 years. Back when we had only basic skills and even only few experts, that HP difference was ok because we still had the healing edge, but now? As I said, both other shielders have the ability to regen HP, there is no more advantage for Paladins that requires HP reduction. Isn't that logical?

 

there's nothing with balance since we never discuss BALANCE (with me), because players still can't even give a correct definition of this word for the game.

This is about solution: what should you do if you don't like some faction/class/race? Choose another. That's why you have a choice.

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I love the class, but it's not given the deserved stats. What should I do?

Can you just discuss it with the dev team? Maybe they have a different opinion, do they even get to know our suggestions/requests?

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that's why you have a choice between four different tank classes in our game.

And ofc a choice to leave paladin to other players, not a big problem.

 

as a player we can only give some opinion, the decision ofc is in dev's hand whether you guys take it or drop it ;D

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as a player we can only give some opinion, the decision ofc is in dev's hand whether you guys take it or drop it ;D

 

yep, that's right, we have a game designer after all to make any kind of decisions regarding the classes.

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In my opinion, Paladin is already OP in PvP, they stun you for long time and deal free dmg on you + Banner dmg is op if you use Magic Dmg Build..
And at Arena, Paladin very good as AoE Stun *Fetter* and Banner Dmg. a good group support..

Idk in PvE, but maybe it lack of tanking capabilites, etc. i never played pala, but i planning to and currently making one at Lv.10, but i think Pala has a very good PvE support also, with fetter / banner they can slow down all mobs and u can skip all mobs safely and also i heard from Elf side, Pala can deal good amount of dmg in dungeon, so i don't think there is any problem.

Edited by Kelvzs

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I let my friend play my pala now. He says he does really well in PvP, and doesn't even have resi, and I think he's being quite honest. Somehow the sentinel sides tanks are kinda weak? But it's the same here on mc, barbs have become mostly rejected for dgs because death call is just the best skill ever for a tank

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In my opinion about Paladin in PvE..

It's true Paladin don't have any Tank skill, but they have Heal and AoE stun "Fetter", but let's not talk about Paladin only..
At Elf side, if you doing DGs (Example: TP Heroic) You'll probably get 1 Pala, 3 Bds, and 1 Druid.. or 1 Pala, 2 Mages, 1 Bds, 1 Druid.. As teamwork.. Paladin with Fetter, BD's with Rush, Druid with AoE Root Expert, or Mages AoE Stun.. It's make it like you not even Tank alot.. at Tower at TP Heroic, BDs probably use rush and the mobs keep changing target > then got fetter > then got Druid aoe root, Druid sleep, Mage AoE stuns.. Doesn't seems like Paladin need anymore Tanking skills.. + with Mage AoE dmg, i think at TP Heroic they killed all the Low HP Robot in sec.. only the 16k one left to tank.

Unlike MCs,
DK have Death Call, but we have to Tank the mobs 100% on DK, and shaman/necro healing em, and rarely to take Warlock into TP Heroic, even Warlock have AoE Stuns but compared to Druid alone its like 80:20.. Warlock only stun 5s. at TP Heroic party for MCs, we mostly take 2 Rogue, 1 DK, 1 Shaman, 1 Necro. Its true that DK/Barb have Defense skill, but the different in Tanking on PvE is also different on both side.. MCs need to tank 100% and killed em 1 by 1 slowly since we lack of AoE.

While MCs need to tank everything from the start to the end, and Elf side only need to tank few than MCs cause of the AoE skill they have..

I don't think its right to judge the Paladin class alone.. The best result of performance is Teamwork.. Not a class that can do everything alone..

If paladin got a defense skill, then they will have Heal + OP Tanking + OP Dmg, it will be even more unbalanced in PvP, when they're already super good at PvP. Improving PvE skill will affect PvP also.

Anyway from both side if we see,, Elf side always have better performance at DGs run than MC side.. They can done DGs faster than MCs always.

Edited by Kelvzs

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In my opinion about Paladin in PvE..

 

It's true Paladin don't have any Tank skill, but they have Heal and AoE stun "Fetter", but let's not talk about Paladin only..

At Elf side, if you doing DGs (Example: TP Heroic) You'll probably get 1 Pala, 3 Bds, and 1 Druid.. or 1 Pala, 2 Mages, 1 Bds, 1 Druid.. As teamwork.. Paladin with Fetter, BD's with Rush, Druid with AoE Root Expert, or Mages AoE Stun.. It's make it like you not even Tank alot.. at Tower at TP Heroic, BDs probably use rush and the mobs keep changing target > then got fetter > then got Druid aoe root, Druid sleep, Mage AoE stuns.. Doesn't seems like Paladin need anymore Tanking skills.. + with Mage AoE dmg, i think at TP Heroic they killed all the Low HP Robot in sec.. only the 16k one left to tank.

 

Unlike MCs,

DK have Death Call, but we have to Tank the mobs 100% on DK, and shaman/necro healing em, and rarely to take Warlock into TP Heroic, even Warlock have AoE Stuns but compared to Druid alone its like 80:20.. Warlock only stun 5s. at TP Heroic party for MCs, we mostly take 2 Rogue, 1 DK, 1 Shaman, 1 Necro. Its true that DK/Barb have Defense skill, but the different in Tanking on PvE is also different on both side.. MCs need to tank 100% and killed em 1 by 1 slowly since we lack of AoE.

 

While MCs need to tank everything from the start to the end, and Elf side only need to tank few than MCs cause of the AoE skill they have..

 

I don't think its right to judge the Paladin class alone.. The best result of performance is Teamwork.. Not a class that can do everything alone..

 

If paladin got a defense skill, then they will have Heal + OP Tanking + OP Dmg, it will be even more unbalanced in PvP, when they're already super good at PvP. Improving PvE skill will affect PvP also.

 

Anyway from both side if we see,, Elf side always have better performance at DGs run than MC side.. They can done DGs faster than MCs always.

This is actually very true

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Not sure what all the complaining is about. Paladin got the buff it deserved making it as balanced as can be if not up to par with the rest of the tanks in the game.

 

complaing just becauss it has a slightly less amount of health than the others is just idiotic; it's still a tank nonetheless.

 

Every class has its own strengths and weaknesses.

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Slightly? 500-700+ HP is not slight. And there is no reason too.

Lacking decent defensive skills is already a weakness for Paladins.

Edited by Gladiator

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In my opinion about Paladin in PvE..

 

It's true Paladin don't have any Tank skill, but they have Heal and AoE stun "Fetter", but let's not talk about Paladin only..

At Elf side, if you doing DGs (Example: TP Heroic) You'll probably get 1 Pala, 3 Bds, and 1 Druid.. or 1 Pala, 2 Mages, 1 Bds, 1 Druid.. As teamwork.. Paladin with Fetter, BD's with Rush, Druid with AoE Root Expert, or Mages AoE Stun.. It's make it like you not even Tank alot.. at Tower at TP Heroic, BDs probably use rush and the mobs keep changing target > then got fetter > then got Druid aoe root, Druid sleep, Mage AoE stuns.. Doesn't seems like Paladin need anymore Tanking skills.. + with Mage AoE dmg, i think at TP Heroic they killed all the Low HP Robot in sec.. only the 16k one left to tank.

 

Unlike MCs,

DK have Death Call, but we have to Tank the mobs 100% on DK, and shaman/necro healing em, and rarely to take Warlock into TP Heroic, even Warlock have AoE Stuns but compared to Druid alone its like 80:20.. Warlock only stun 5s. at TP Heroic party for MCs, we mostly take 2 Rogue, 1 DK, 1 Shaman, 1 Necro. Its true that DK/Barb have Defense skill, but the different in Tanking on PvE is also different on both side.. MCs need to tank 100% and killed em 1 by 1 slowly since we lack of AoE.

 

While MCs need to tank everything from the start to the end, and Elf side only need to tank few than MCs cause of the AoE skill they have..

 

I don't think its right to judge the Paladin class alone.. The best result of performance is Teamwork.. Not a class that can do everything alone..

 

If paladin got a defense skill, then they will have Heal + OP Tanking + OP Dmg, it will be even more unbalanced in PvP, when they're already super good at PvP. Improving PvE skill will affect PvP also.

 

Anyway from both side if we see,, Elf side always have better performance at DGs run than MC side.. They can done DGs faster than MCs always.

Good points you made there, respects cuz you know how to argue not like some ppl right above my last post.

All of your points are correct, DK and Barb deserve better defensive skills than Paladin, because they have less damage or AoE control, didn't say otherwise.

But it also makes sense that Paladin gets to be able to tank along with BDs, after all, DK or Barbs can tank alone, BD can't, especially after Counter nerf. So as a Paladin now I need to constantly use Illumination to agro mobs, and when I do, I need to make sure to tank a bit and not die instantly.

 

Fun fact: Mage with good defense (4k+ without Sun Armor) is as tanky as a Paladin, because of maxed Barrier. But only when it comes to tanking few amount of mobs or a boss, actually even with too many mobs, they steal way too much life if the Mage has good life steal.

 

And regarding PvP, look how OP Barbs and DKs are in PvP because of the recent PvE-related buffs and skills, so let's not bring PvP into it.

 

I gave up on asking for defensive skills, devs seem to want Paladin as a second lower damage higher defense Mage for Sentinels, I'm fine with it. But give us the "higher defense" part. And don't tell me you can wear heavy armor, because the skills that mostly define the class and not equipment.

 

My whole point is, there is no reason anymore to have less HP, other tanks have their own form of healing.

Comparing the whole performance in a party is surely different for all classes. We are talking about a healing skill that causes around 500 base HP loss. And I still see no point in it. If you're gonna give us an advantage and give a disadvantage for it at the same time, I don't know how it is an advantage anymore.

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