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Let's talk balance


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Before I begin, let me point out a few things.

 

First off, I will mostly talk about skills. Skills of a class are pretty much the defining characteristic that make it unique. I could mention one skill and every Warspear veteran would know which class I'm talking about.

 

Secondly, almost

ALMOST

no skill is overpowered. Silence skills are OP? No. Secret Link is OP? Nope. Totem maybe? Nope.avi. Almost every skill on it's own is fine. I'm surprised people don't realise that it's the entire skillset that makes the class OP. Make a regular Barbarian and a Bladecancer with the best possible gear, but only with Counterstrike, fight eachother. The winner is obvious.

 

Thirdly, when someone makes a skillbuild, they expect it to be useful. The glory of perfect balance is that any skillbuild you make will be good as every other one, but it will still be unique and may standout. Yet it's 2015, and we still have noobtraps.

 

Lastly, this wall of text will be long, so just CTRL+F the class you want to read my opinion about. I won't always write an exact name of the skill so people would understand what I talk about quicker. Also, people hate when their favorite class is in danger, even if it's just an illusion, so I wonder how many people I will manage to piss off. Let's go.

 

 

Barbarian...

 

...is a perfectly balanced class

just begun and already found balance, kbye

. It has 2 possible weapon routes, and therefore, more unique skillbuilds. Both routes provide great defense options, as you would expect from a tank type class and both routes have great offense, without anything sticking out. The only problem that it has is also shared with other 3 classes - it's Taunt. 1/5? Useless. 5/5? What changed? Hell, if a boss has less than half HP, and someone else began tanking it, the skill won't even work. Me and some other people suggested great ideas on how to change the skill. Make it a proper Taunt - if the skill is used on a mob, it will stay on the tank for the ENTIRE duration, no matter the damage dealt by others. For PvP, make a taunted enemy deal less damage for everyone in your party except you, so there would be more incentive to attack you and not others. This change should be applied to all classes that have Taunt, so I won't repeat everything again.

 

 

Rogue

 

Oh, Rogue is pretty much fine as well

2 in a row, still with me?

By looking at the class description, you would expect it to be a class that dishes out huge damage and has low survivability. Play as a Rogue and you'll get exactly that. Sacrifice damage for Gouge and in return, you may get a chance to stealth again after waiting out applied DoTs and deal even more damage. The class a an ability to catch up to people and DoT as well, so it's a well rounded class.

 

 

Shaman

 

These are more of a strange questionmarks, rather than balancing suggestions. Why Blind increases the Dodge % of the enemy? Also, instead of this % being reduced by studying the skill, it actually increases. This Dodge gimmick should be removed entirely, as it serves no purpose and no player actually takes this into consideration when studying the skill. Also, Earthquake's attack speed

AS later

reduction is definitely unnoticeable, so this effect should be strengthened or entirely removed as well, because the skill is picked by most people for obvious different reasons. Aside from that, a great support class.

 

 

Deathknight

 

Remember how I mentioned a skill being nothing on it's own but OP when combined with others? This class represents it very well. 4/4 into Silence and your enemy is just a punchbag for the next 7 seconds. This is not a Germany/Brazil football match review, but yes, that's SEVEN. "Ok, but the skill has a lengthy cooldown". This is where the skillset being OP part comes in. Pull the enemy to yourself and use Exhalation. Then use Silence. Mash all skills. After the Silence is over, stun the enemy again. If your enemy is not dead yet, you're either a low amp player or a complete loser. This combo has no counterplay and you cannot escape it. If you are still alive after the combo, you will be pulled, stunned and silenced again. Even bosses become regular mobs with high HP if silenced by this skill at 4/4. My suggestion would be to reduce the Silence duration to the maximum of 4 seconds at 4/4. I really couldn't understand how could anyone debate for more. Aside from that, Deathknight is a great tank class with 2 stuns, good damage output and great survivability. Only the Taunt should be fixed, as mentioned above.

 

 

Warlock

 

The only class that has good chances of winning against this class is a Ranger. Why? Because no melee class will touch a good warlock and almost no skills will be cast on him. Only Ranger can still do good damage, since it's a ranged class, which has huge damage without skills. The problem is similar to Deathknight's - low counterplay, except it's a bit different here. Puddle is a DoT. Drain is a DoT. Bloody Tribute is a DoT. Hex is a DoT. Melee are pretty much stunned from all of this and the class has 2 stun skills already, so that's a good 2.5. I'd recommend removing the DoT from Hex and leave it as a simple silence as it is right now. Puddle also doesn't need to tick 5 times, 3 are fine. Aside from that it's a very well rounded caster class.

 

Necromancer

 

A support which is just too good. I'd argue that Nightmare is OP

and it obviously is

but simply reducing the duration wouldn't fix it. Can't give a lot of insight there. 8 second "stun" is too good, since you can heal yourself, refresh the shield and apply almost all debuffs without giving your enemy any chance to retaliate. Speaking of debuffs, many would say Mental Pit is OP, but it's actually not. It simply reduces your damage. In a lot of situations, Roar would reduce way more damage, but have you heard anyone complaining about that? It's clear that devs don't want to balance things around 1v1 fights, but still, the power of the skill could be a bit reduced. Right now, it turns a +10 player into a -3 one. Also, Infection's damage at the end of the skill effect is stupid and unnecessary. Necromancer is a support

yes, this word doesn't exist in this game anymore, but still

, so why not make the skill a bit more "supporty". Instead of dealing damage, make the skill spread on other enemies. Don't run away from the infected and you're dead for sure. The current damage the skill deals would be possibly conpensated with an added bonus by the damage your teammates deal. #1 support in the game for sure.

 

 

Bladecancer

 

Oh boy, I'm sure you skipped everything and CTRL+F'd here. Doesn't matter if you did or not, it doesn't change the fact how broken OP this class is and that you already know what changes I'll recommend. Such a seemingly simple and smooth combo makes everyone hate fighting this class. It has everything to lock you in place and make you kill yourself from a few attacks of your own. So yea, let's begin. Hamstring is too strong. Period. A 3 second stun

4?

and huge damage, which is also a DoT. Fixes? Keep the stun and remove the damage or reduce the stun and reduce the damage. Counterstrike is OP as well. The idea of the skill is logical and I like it. But 700 damage, even if it's 4/4? AND IT CAN CRIT? Why would I max any other expert skill? The fix is simple - make the skill counter the amount of damaged based on the amount received. No more newbies hitting the Bladecancer for 50 and getting countered by a 1.4k crit. Moving on, Sonic Wave, even at 1/4, deals too much damage as well. Since it's always used immediately after the Hamstring, you can't do much about it. Make it scale better, right now there is no reason to upgrade it. Aside from that, even though Parry is better than Dodge, it should scale better as well. Currently, just like Taunt, it's a noobtrap. Taunt changed themselves should be applied as well.

 

 

Ranger

 

The class which holds the title of the stupidest and most overpowered skill in the game. It's not Counterstrike folks. Remember how I mentioned that almost no skill is OP on it's own. That's why I said "almost" - because Ranger Blessing exists. You click 1 button. Just one. Suddenly, your damage output is doubled. 2x. 100% increase. Why would anyone need Ice rings or tournament awards with mere 6-7% damage boosts, when you can have 100% boost by clicking a button? Get unlucky, and you will die from one basic attack and one Power Blow

Every class has an empowered auto attack, first skill, which I call a Power Blow

which become 4 crits for some reason. Even skills proc it, and there 4 of them that can do it. Changes? Hell yea. Possibly

not sure if needed

increase the duration of the skill and make the bonus auto attack proc to be guaranteed, but only on every 3rd auto attack or skill combined. That way you will be able to try and defend yourself and not get unlucky by receiving 4 crits in your face. Aside from that, Explosive Trap needs changes. I fight in arena and PvP cave quite a lot and to be completely honest with you, I haven't seen this skill once. I assume the damage could be increased? Maybe the range of the explosion? Can't say much here

 

 

Druid

 

Don't post how I never mentioned the fact that you can be completely stunlocked - it's not 100% precise and you can fight it, just get good. Aside from that, Secret Link heals too much, too fast. It is basically a free upgraded potion. Doesn't it go against the marketing? The healing power should obviously be greatly reduced. I'd also recommend changing the skill's healing into a % instead of a flat amount, with 4/4 healing 100% precisely.

 

 

Paladin

 

Straight to the point - make the Power Blow on par with other Power Blows. Everyone knows that for some weird reason it deals much more damage than other Power Blows. Combine that with Banner and you have a combo which is getting a bit OP. Also, improve Aura. Make it stronger than Merman's Aura, because right now, there is no reason for any Paladin to put any skill points there, since everyone and the Paladin himself can just buy a Merman. Currently, the skill a noobtrap as well. The strenght of magic affected skills could be slightly increased as well, because right now, there is no good reason to get magic rings and put a magic power crystal into your mace or maul, since raw physical damage is stronger.

 

 

Mage

 

 

HARAD AKBAR

Big damage, more damage, even more damage, balanced by having no consistent stun and having mediocre survivability. Everything is fine aside from Dragon's Eye. The skill seems excelent - mana regen on auto attacks, more AS to boost that as well. And invisibility counter. Why? Doesn't matter if your Stealth is 1/5 or 5/5, you will be seen. And the stupidest thing about this is that it counters one specific skill of one specific class. No counterplay at all too. Remove it entirely - Mages have plenty of ways to reveal stealthed Rogues already.

 

 

Priest

 

A good class with a wonderful stun that doesn't actually stun. Lovely support class, no changes needed.

 

 

Edited by Shil
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Counterattack, Dk's stun chain, and Mental Pit, As well as Paladin's Banner actually can be evaded in PvP...

Vs Bd you can simply stop hitting while it is on, every class has a type of disable, so simply use it and run few yards back. They may call you a "noob runner" but you actually save 1.5-2k hp so where is the "noob" part? However, I agree to remove the Critical hit part.

Same with Dk.. Most Dks start stunning with Exhalation of Darkness, Dk has 2 seconds to use it, here comes your turn, you can stun the Dk, interrupting his stun chain and enabling you to start your combos. And yes you will have some free seconds where you aren't stunned.

Mental Pit! It is the most op, yes, but with some luck, you can go out of it receiving least damage possible: Your skills aren't in cd. How to do? Simply, when Mental pit has 1-2 seconds left (You can see it will start to blink up in skill labels) start your stuns.. Don't ever use skills while Pit is on. Anyways, this can occur 10% of the time and is so hard to do and it needs some nerf. Because if you are not high amped enough and kill Necro with your first combo, Necro will be able to use it again and again, and you will end up dead.

Banner.. Come on 3 steps back and You're good.

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Also worth considering the "glitches" that affect the classes. Devs recently fixed that caster quirk that made shamans run to where they cast quake, locks run to where they cast dark circle etc. Thanks for fixing that - it makes a huge difference in playability. On the other hand, there's still the glitch that allows BDs to hamstring other players from 6 squares away, sometimes while they are standing on the opposite side of a visible dark circle from a lock. Not sure what in the code/lag allows that, but it really would be great to have it fixed.

 

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Also worth considering the "glitches" that affect the classes. Devs recently fixed that caster quirk that made shamans run to where they cast quake, locks run to where they cast dark circle etc. Thanks for fixing that - it makes a huge difference in playability. On the other hand, there's still the glitch that allows BDs to hamstring other players from 6 squares away, sometimes while they are standing on the opposite side of a visible dark circle from a lock. Not sure what in the code/lag allows that, but it really would be great to have it fixed.

It is commonly known as "screen bug".. Happens sometimes even if you have a good internet connection.

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Counter Strike critical hit should be removed, as they did to Shaman's Lightning Shield.

Agree with everything else, just the fact that if (and I say if), ALL of these changes will be applied exactly the way you said it, there will be more changes needed to balance the everything out again. There is always that one class which is stronger than the other, even with fixes.

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Counter Strike critical hit should be removed, as they did to Shaman's Lightning Shield.

Agree with everything else, just the fact that if (and I say if), ALL of these changes will be applied exactly the way you said it, there will be more changes needed to balance the everything out again. There is always that one class which is stronger than the other, even with fixes.

And that's why devs didn't make the game 1v1 based.

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Really good topic.

 

If you bring out the full potential of your char, you will be able

to beat most of the classes, but then again, some not. But still.

Each class has advantages and dissadvantages.

 

 

 

The only skill that bothers me is Stealth, yea it makes the rogue

unique, but the skill brings WAY more features than just having

more dmg. You can solo some quests that others can't. Like

the avenger stelas one. It also enables you to do easy low lvl

elf char hunts, you can escape easily and deal enough damage

to KO or 2-hit kill em. A melee class is chasing you? Wish them

GOOD LUCK! If they get close, you stun them and run again,

btw, it has ridiculously low cooldown.l, which makes the running

easier. And there is not always a class around who has AoE skills

which would ruin the whole stealth skill, and finally catch the player.

 

Counter strike isn't that op, since there is not a 100% chance

of hitting the enemy with it, happened to me that when I used

it it hit only once, or didn't hit at all. and it's 4/4.

Edited by Raezer
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Just to show how op Necros pit is: Today a +5 Necro beated all +9 and 10 Bds :good: Cs needs a nerf as well but not much since the chance to hit is depending on luck. To remove the crit is something but honestly, GET MORE RESILIENCE if you complain about crits.

Like Glad mentioned in on of the comments: This game is not PvP based, so stop to complain please. We really have enough topics about that stuff already

Edited by Julie
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Just to show how op Necros pit is: Today a +5 Necro beated all +9 and 10 Bds :good: Cs needs a nerf as well but not much since the chance to hit is depending on luck. To remove the crit is something but honestly, GET MORE RESILIENCE if you complain about crits.

Devs removed critical hits from Lightning Shield, Counter Strike of thr mcs. Would be fair if they removed crits from Counter Strike then.
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Just to show how op Necros pit is: Today a +5 Necro beated all +9 and 10 Bds :good: Cs needs a nerf as well but not much since the chance to hit is depending on luck. To remove the crit is something but honestly, GET MORE RESILIENCE if you complain about crits.

Like Glad mentioned in on of the comments: This game is not PvP based, so stop to complain please. We really have enough topics about that stuff already

You're telling me I'm supposed to have no chance against the same medium amp BD while I have 20% resilience? Ok

 

Also, the fact that the game is not focused on PvP doesn't change the fact that people will still fight eachother. Hell, maybe let's remove arena entirely then?

 

To anyone else who bothers replying - please forget the class you main and talk about general balance

Edited by Shil
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i don't really know why devs made axes availble to rogues and bds. Maybe as some kind of anti kite so that they have enough dps to take down casters in 2 seconds but then again that in itself is stupid. If a caster gonna focus on kiting the enemy and not dealing damage while kiting it's not like the enemy is going to touch you anyway. After i have all classes at a reasonable amp and lv22 i can say which things are wrong and which arent but for now ill say counter strike is bullshit and this is coming from a player who's had a bd for 5 years soon. Solution = Make counter damage static eg. lv1 100, lv2 200, lv 3 300, lv4 400. That should be way more than enough damage to not be shit but not op either.

 

Would like to complain about druids stun lock but i fail it all the time so i quess i really cant. 

Edited by Raislin
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You're telling me I'm supposed to have no chance against the same medium amp BD while I have 20% resilience? Ok

Also, the fact that the game is not focused on PvP doesn't change the fact that people will still fight eachother. Hell, maybe let's remove arena entirely then?

To anyone else who bothers replying - please forget the class you main and talk about general balance

My main class is druid :) + I said counter has to get nerfed and it's alright if they remove critical hit but people who complain about it also should get more resilience honestly.

Why remove arena? Arena is 2*2, 3*3 and 5*5 lol. Yes, people are doing 1v1 but Devs said often enough this game is not about pvp and they surely won't change skills just because some people do complain about classes are op in pvp.

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My main class is druid :) + I said counter has to get nerfed and it's alright if they remove critical hit but people who complain about it also should get more resilience honestly.

Why remove arena? Arena is 2*2, 3*3 and 5*5 lol. Yes, people are doing 1v1 but Devs said often enough this game is not about pvp and they surely won't change skills just because some people do complain about classes are op in pvp.

You didn't read 90% of the quoted text but it's ok.

Devs miss out a lot for not balancing PvP aspect of the game early. More skills = more complaints = more headaches

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You didn't read 90% of the quoted text but it's ok.

Devs miss out a lot for not balancing PvP aspect of the game early. More skills = more complaints = more headaches

Everyone who complains or doesn't like the game the way it is, is free to leave whenever he/she wants to.

I read your whole quote but was too tired to answer to everything xD It's 3 am here sorry :P

Edited by Julie
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3am? Get back to your bed. It's sleeping time.

 

i don't really know why devs made axes availble to rogues and bds. Maybe as some kind of anti kite so that they have enough dps to take down casters in 2 seconds but then again that in itself is stupid. If a caster gonna focus on kiting the enemy and not dealing damage while kiting it's not like the enemy is going to touch you anyway. After i have all classes at a reasonable amp and lv22 i can say which things are wrong and which arent but for now ill say counter strike is bullshit and this is coming from a player who's had a bd for 5 years soon. Solution = Make counter damage static eg. lv1 100, lv2 200, lv 3 300, lv4 400. That should be way more than enough damage to not be shit but not op either.

 

Would like to complain about druids stun lock but i fail it all the time so i quess i really cant. 

One of the worst updates ever.

I like the static Counter Strike thingy. Would balance shit hella much out.

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I don't even know if it's a bug or not. This Screen Bug or something has been reported billions of times, and is still not fixed because it ain't fixable!

 

I suspect it can be fixed or at least improved to be in-line with other melee attacks. Other melee attacks don't have the extreme screen bug/lag of hamstring. I notice rogue stun works sometimes from 2 or 3 squares, but I've never seen it work from 8(!) squares away, which I have with hamstring. So, It seems there's something more going on with hamstring than the usual screen lag.

 

People complained for years about the caster issue (shamans running to where they cast quake, etc) and sort of accepted that it would never be fixed and then one day recently it mysteriously disappeared. Makes me think that the devs have a long list of problems to deal with and they get fixed according to available time, pressure from players, difficulty of the fix, and interest of the devs.

 

I'm glad Shil made this post and glad about all the other suggestions for balance - it's for benefit of the game that people give constructive feedback about how to improve things. Developers can take what they want and leave the rest.

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Balance and skills

I bet that anyone here can say that counter strike is op vs New bosses

It's not when boss hit you 700 with your best Def then what do you expect hitting boss 600 with cs seems reasonable

 

That skills are made for higher combat ability

 

Can anyone kill a boss with basic skills mostly no one can

So the difference between expert skills and basic skills is huge

 

Our defensive gear are still the same since the basic skills time

the melee gear was improved ( bd and rouge get axes , others get all kind of wep on )

Then came dmg accessories that are now available for almost every one so your dmg is increased while your is still the same that is why ppl complain about expert skills they are already high and then you add them 2 extra dmg lvls (accessories , wep )

 

The only defensive advantage that was added is Life steal runes

 

So you can say +4 lvl of power added to atk

And +1 lvl added to defense

 

So you are fighting +8 wep vs +2 gear

And here comes the imbalance

 

Some ppl will say there are defensive skills

Dmg skills are more powerful

 

The defensive ability should be increased

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Talking about Counter Strike balance... Maybe the amount of damage should depend on the enemy's damage?

Not fair for high amp players

+1 bd with skill can hit you high because your dmg is high

But removing critical and decrease hit rate or increase cool down better solution

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Maybe not fair for high amps, but certainly more fair for low amps. Plus it's a big balance thingy.

Yes it's a pain to try balance what ppl think balanced and imbalanced in the same time

 

Rate is already high like 80% shams shield don't have that much rate

 

Just came to my mind

skill deal low magic dmg with fixed amount for each skill lvl

 

Ranger have dot magic dmg

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I read all comments on this topic and all I have to say is that this is one of the most balanced iterations of the game and you guys can't realize that because you don't known how to play the game.

You don't known how to counter skills, how to counter classes, how to properly gear up for arena, how to properly use skill points for arena, how the combinations of the classes you have on your team is more important than 1 class being better than the other at 1v1 and so on.

You are all bad strategists in general who want developers to "balance" the game taking into account your narrow minded play style.

 

 

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I read all comments on this topic and all I have to say is that this is one of the most balanced iterations of the game and you guys can't realize that because you don't known how to play the game.

You don't known how to counter skills, how to counter classes, how to properly gear up for arena, how to properly use skill points for arena, how the combinations of the classes you have on your team is more important than 1 class being better than the other at 1v1 and so on.

You are all bad strategists in general who want developers to "balance" the game taking into account your narrow minded play style.

>I know everything and all of you are retards

 

Classic shitpost, 8/8

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:facepalm:

Simply everyone is just complaining about the class he/she can't beat or he hardly can beat

And those people are ignored because they provide dumb reasons or none at all

 

But you see, if "everyone is complaining about a class they can't beat", then maybe there is a problem? Banner had a problem too and only few classes could beat Paladins fairly, even then high amp gear was required.

Edited by Shil
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I read all comments on this topic and all I have to say is that this is one of the most balanced iterations of the game and you guys can't realize that because you don't known how to play the game.

You don't known how to counter skills, how to counter classes, how to properly gear up for arena, how to properly use skill points for arena, how the combinations of the classes you have on your team is more important than 1 class being better than the other at 1v1 and so on.

You are all bad strategists in general who want developers to "balance" the game taking into account your narrow minded play style.

How about you try to be nice for once...
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And those people are ignored because they provide dumb reasons or none at all

But you see, if "everyone is complaining about a class they can't beat", then maybe there is a problem? Banner had a problem too and only few classes could beat Paladins fairly, even then high amp gear was required.

Paladins aren't a big deal depending from skills, it's more cool down and life steal who makes all tank classes very strong now. Especially Bladedancers are too strong with life steal. Everything was alright before life steal runes and cool down crystals came.

And all classes can be beaten by a few other classes.

Edited by Julie
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