Why Does Charmer Even Exist?

[Mrtomato 16]

Tell me, what is the purpose of the Charmer class? Magic build is completely useless (Spawn of Gloom is garbage), so 95% of Charmers are forced into physical builds. But as a physical class, their damage isn’t burst damage—they can’t kill a BD, Paladin, or Warden. At the same time, they’re fragile, often dying in just two hits from a BD.

It’s obvious: as a DPS, they can’t kill heavy armor classes; as a heavy armor user, they can’t survive the damage. So how exactly did you design this class? It serves no purpose at all.

[Drakoslayd 673]

Charmers are a hybrid class. But more importantly they are a summoner. 

 

They sit somewhere between a Deathknight and a Necromancer. They support the tanks and have their summons attack targets, slowing and stalling them enough for others to deal with. 

 

Not every class needs to be solo. 

[Mrtomato 16]

12 hours ago, Drakoslayd said:

Charmers are a hybrid class. But more importantly they are a summoner. 

 

They sit somewhere between a Deathknight and a Necromancer. They support the tanks and have their summons attack targets, slowing and stalling them enough for others to deal with. 

 

Not every class needs to be solo. 

You say Charmers are “summoners” and their pets “slow and stall enemies.” That’s a joke. In actual mass battles, Charmer summons do nothing but die instantly and turn into free healing packs for the enemy. They don’t slow, they don’t disrupt — they help the other side.

If this is supposed to be the “core identity” of the class, then you’ve designed a failure. No damage, no survivability, and summons that literally benefit opponents. That’s not a hybrid class — that’s a liability.

 

All these years you’ve been trying to “fix” Charmers by adding more damage or stats to their summons — and it’s completely useless. The core problem isn’t the pet. It’s the Charmer itself. The class is fragile as hell, has zero self-sustain, and folds in seconds.

Go actually play a Charmer in real fights before giving us your paper theories. On paper, maybe it “looks balanced.” In practice, it’s a free kill.

[Hellscream 6]

1 hour ago, Mrtomato said:

You say Charmers are “summoners” and their pets “slow and stall enemies.” That’s a joke. In actual mass battles, Charmer summons do nothing but die instantly and turn into free healing packs for the enemy. They don’t slow, they don’t disrupt — they help the other side.

If this is supposed to be the “core identity” of the class, then you’ve designed a failure. No damage, no survivability, and summons that literally benefit opponents. That’s not a hybrid class — that’s a liability.

 

All these years you’ve been trying to “fix” Charmers by adding more damage or stats to their summons — and it’s completely useless. The core problem isn’t the pet. It’s the Charmer itself. The class is fragile as hell, has zero self-sustain, and folds in seconds.

Go actually play a Charmer in real fights before giving us your paper theories. On paper, maybe it “looks balanced.” In practice, it’s a free kill.

Food for classes in Sentinels with sustained AoE. The same goes to Necromancer's undead army.

[Drakoslayd 673]

Nerf elf aoe 

[vavavi 290]

On 9/17/2025 at 9:29 AM, Mrtomato said:

You say Charmers are “summoners” and their pets “slow and stall enemies.” That’s a joke. In actual mass battles, Charmer summons do nothing but die instantly and turn into free healing packs for the enemy. They don’t slow, they don’t disrupt — they help the other side.

If this is supposed to be the “core identity” of the class, then you’ve designed a failure. No damage, no survivability, and summons that literally benefit opponents. That’s not a hybrid class — that’s a liability.

 

All these years you’ve been trying to “fix” Charmers by adding more damage or stats to their summons — and it’s completely useless. The core problem isn’t the pet. It’s the Charmer itself. The class is fragile as hell, has zero self-sustain, and folds in seconds.

Go actually play a Charmer in real fights before giving us your paper theories. On paper, maybe it “looks balanced.” In practice, it’s a free kill.

Maybe in mass fights they're not the best, but it's one of the best dps/arena classes. The damage or heal, depending on build, that they're able to dish out is crazy good. 

[Mrtomato 16]

36 minutes ago, vavavi said:

Maybe in mass fights they're not the best, but it's one of the best dps/arena classes. The damage or heal, depending on build, that they're able to dish out is crazy good. 

“In arena fights, yes, maybe when you look at the scoreboard at the end, you’ll see Charmer’s damage looks impressive. But the reality? It’s meaningless damage. Why? Because the dogs’ attacks are AoE, the damage is too low to actually kill anyone. In fact, the dogs often heal the enemy more than the damage they deal. That so-called ‘high damage’ you see on the scoreboard is nothing but inflated AoE numbers—completely useless in practice.”

[vavavi 290]

On 9/18/2025 at 1:32 PM, Mrtomato said:

“In arena fights, yes, maybe when you look at the scoreboard at the end, you’ll see Charmer’s damage looks impressive. But the reality? It’s meaningless damage. Why? Because the dogs’ attacks are AoE, the damage is too low to actually kill anyone. In fact, the dogs often heal the enemy more than the damage they deal. That so-called ‘high damage’ you see on the scoreboard is nothing but inflated AoE numbers—completely useless in practice.”

"Statistics say i do a lot of damage, but you're just imagining things, this damage is not real damage" 

 

Also the dogs hit like 1200-1800 each on people, what are you talking about healing the enemy more

Edited September 19, 2025 by vavavi

[Foca 2]

 Are you kidding bro?

charmers are the strongest DPS in PVE, and if your dogs are dying in an AOE hit is because it is not building with enough resilience

 

 

[Mrtomato 16]

8 hours ago, vavavi said:

"Statistics say i do a lot of damage, but you're just imagining things, this damage is not real damage" 

 

Also the dogs hit like 1200-1800 each on people, what are you talking about healing the enemy more

Yes, the dogs hit for 1200–1800 each. Congratulations. But in real mass battles and arena fights, this damage is completely meaningless. Why? Because:

1. AoE damage doesn’t kill anyone. Even if the numbers look high on the scoreboard, it doesn’t translate into actual kills. The enemy heals, tanks, and mobility completely neutralize it.

2. Charmer itself is extremely fragile. No mobility, no shields, no self-sustain. The moment the Charmer is targeted, it dies—so your “high damage” is irrelevant.

3. Summons often end up being free healing packs for the enemy. Even if each hit does some damage, the enemy’s health recovery outpaces it.

The truth is, many Elf players are sitting comfortably on the strong side while simultaneously dismissing MC players’ requests and concerns, defending a system where Elf stays overpowered and MC stays weak. Your defense of these numbers isn’t about balance—it’s about preserving your faction’s advantage.

So yes, Charmer can do “high damage” on paper. But in practice? It’s a fragile, ineffective class that can’t survive or control fights.

[Jollier 95]

On 9/20/2025 at 11:08 AM, Mrtomato said:

Yes, the dogs hit for 1200–1800 each. Congratulations. But in real mass battles and arena fights, this damage is completely meaningless. Why? Because:

1. AoE damage doesn’t kill anyone. Even if the numbers look high on the scoreboard, it doesn’t translate into actual kills. The enemy heals, tanks, and mobility completely neutralize it.

2. Charmer itself is extremely fragile. No mobility, no shields, no self-sustain. The moment the Charmer is targeted, it dies—so your “high damage” is irrelevant.

3. Summons often end up being free healing packs for the enemy. Even if each hit does some damage, the enemy’s health recovery outpaces it.

The truth is, many Elf players are sitting comfortably on the strong side while simultaneously dismissing MC players’ requests and concerns, defending a system where Elf stays overpowered and MC stays weak. Your defense of these numbers isn’t about balance—it’s about preserving your faction’s advantage.

So yes, Charmer can do “high damage” on paper. But in practice? It’s a fragile, ineffective class that can’t survive or control fights.

If you say charmer is weak and fragile. The problem is with your build, not the class

[Девочка-зайка 199]

24 минуты назад, Jollier сказал:

If you say charmer is weak and fragile. The problem is with your build, not the class

What survivability benefits do they offer?

Increased defense, which has long been overshadowed by penetration.

 

Block, which may or may not work.

 

Healing, which is meaningless without damage reduction.

 

The dogs don't even have this, but they do have guaranteed damage from area-of-effect attacks due to their PvE mob status.

 

Good charmers are the exception, not the rule. 

Edited November 2, 2025 by Девочка-зайка

[Drown 32]

On 9/18/2025 at 12:55 PM, vavavi said:

Maybe in mass fights they're not the best, but it's one of the best dps/arena classes. The damage or heal, depending on build, that they're able to dish out is crazy good. 

Dmg very nice yes, but when it comes to heal build. Charmer very much lacking on that part nowadays. And gm tries to fix it by making magic build more offensive which dont really fix the actual problem..

[Jollier 95]

On 11/2/2025 at 10:49 PM, Девочка-зайка said:

What survivability benefits do they offer?

Increased defense, which has long been overshadowed by penetration.

 

Block, which may or may not work.

 

Healing, which is meaningless without damage reduction.

 

The dogs don't even have this, but they do have guaranteed damage from area-of-effect attacks due to their PvE mob status.

 

Good charmers are the exception, not the rule. 

if you expect them to survive in all situations. then i see your intend to tank all the game features as a solo player. but thats not it, this game is a team play. so if some of your skills got countered, get party that can fill up that gap instead of asking to tank all of the other characters alone

[Девочка-зайка 199]

42 минуты назад, Jollier сказал:

in all situations

Why should a character either survive everywhere or nowhere? A charmer and their summons are exactly the second option. Practically any well-composed damage dealer would simply heal from this little army, and no team can compensate for this, no one healer can save him if enemy start focusing him, the charmer simply can't take a hit, and summons are guaranteed to take AoE damage since they are considered PvE targets and, due to a lack of fat, burst even faster than their hapless master.

 

And if some of the classes (the overwhelming minority) don’t have enough AoE for free healing from dogs, then 

42 минуты назад, Jollier сказал:

this game is a team play

 

 

Edited November 14, 2025 by Девочка-зайка

[Jollier 95]

On 11/14/2025 at 12:48 PM, Девочка-зайка said:

Why should a character either survive everywhere or nowhere? A charmer and their summons are exactly the second option. Practically any well-composed damage dealer would simply heal from this little army, and no team can compensate for this, no one healer can save him if enemy start focusing him, the charmer simply can't take a hit, and summons are guaranteed to take AoE damage since they are considered PvE targets and, due to a lack of fat, burst even faster than their hapless master.

 

And if some of the classes (the overwhelming minority) don’t have enough AoE for free healing from dogs, then 

 

 

You really lack understanding, out of all the potential charmer has and you only chose to highlight its capacity in a bad light. In a fight that massive. Enemy team would also BE UNDER CONTROL DEBUFF whether its stun or other. And guess what... THEIR STUNS ALSO CANT WORK ON YOU ALL why? BECAUSE THERES TOO MANY DOGS duh 😂😂. And now you whining? If you lose again thats on you and not on your class. 

Edited November 15, 2025 by Jollier

[vavavi 290]

On 11/7/2025 at 9:39 AM, Drown said:

Dmg very nice yes, but when it comes to heal build. Charmer very much lacking on that part nowadays. And gm tries to fix it by making magic build more offensive which dont really fix the actual problem..

Well to be fair haven't seen many staff charmers recently. They used to be a lot more common. At least the way I remember them their heals we're great, but I could be wrong and that's not the case anymore

[Девочка-зайка 199]

3 часа назад, Jollier сказал:

You really lack understanding, out of all the potential charmer has and you only chose to highlight its capacity in a bad light. In a fight that massive. Enemy team would also BE UNDER CONTROL DEBUFF whether its stun or other. And guess what... THEIR STUNS ALSO CANT WORK ON YOU ALL why? BECAUSE THERES TOO MANY DOGS duh 😂😂. And now you whining? If you lose again thats on you and not on your class. 

I'm not saying the charmer is very weak, only that his high damage from dogs is justified by his own low survivability. If you want to reduce their damage, offer ways to increase survivability instead. I'm fine with that. Against good players, dogs with lower damage but increased survivability will be much more effective than in their current form.

 

There was no mention of crowd control or debuffs. I'm saying that the charmer's entire pack is wiped out in 1-2 mass attacks, which summons can't avoid because they are considered PvE targets, and all AoEs have a maximum number of PvE targets of over 10.

 

 

[Drown 32]

4 hours ago, vavavi said:

Well to be fair haven't seen many staff charmers recently. They used to be a lot more common. At least the way I remember them their heals we're great, but I could be wrong and that's not the case anymore

Used to be top heals on mc side. Now lacking kinda. Been like that for a while. I tried dragging it for a long time, but had to give in to phys build recently coz its pointless to use magic

[Jollier 95]

On 11/15/2025 at 7:46 PM, Девочка-зайка said:

I'm not saying the charmer is very weak, only that his high damage from dogs is justified by his own low survivability. If you want to reduce their damage, offer ways to increase survivability instead. I'm fine with that. Against good players, dogs with lower damage but increased survivability will be much more effective than in their current form.

 

There was no mention of crowd control or debuffs. I'm saying that the charmer's entire pack is wiped out in 1-2 mass attacks, which summons can't avoid because they are considered PvE targets, and all AoEs have a maximum number of PvE targets of over 10.

 

 

and my point is the PROS of the dogs right now is not about its damage being high, but ALSO about the other stats that the dogs possess such as STUN, Speed, ETC. More DOGS = MORE HITS = MORE CHANCES STUNS ARE ACTIVATED. so its not only about damage. just admit that you want to be unbeatable, like i said if SOME of your skills are countered then you should find teammate that can fill that gap!!!

Edited November 18, 2025 by Jollier

[Девочка-зайка 199]

10 часов назад, Jollier сказал:

and my point is the PROS of the dogs right now is not about its damage being high, but ALSO about the other stats that the dogs possess such as STUN, Speed, ETC. More DOGS = MORE HITS = MORE CHANCES STUNS ARE ACTIVATED. so its not only about damage. just admit that you want to be unbeatable, like i said if SOME of your skills are countered then you should find teammate that can fill that gap!!!

Dogs don't inherit stun and attack speed. This thread describes all the stats they inherit. It was written by the strongest charmer from Ru-Ruby, the bearer of the octopus

 

https://forum.warspear-online.com/index.php?/topic/473381-заклинатель-информация-о-навыках-и-талантах-2025/

Edited November 18, 2025 by Девочка-зайка

[Jollier 95]

1 hour ago, Девочка-зайка said:

Dogs don't inherit stun and attack speed. This thread describes all the stats they inherit. It was written by the strongest charmer from Ru-Ruby, the bearer of the octopus

 

https://forum.warspear-online.com/index.php?/topic/473381-заклинатель-информация-о-навыках-и-талантах-2025/

Lets say that is true, you also didnt take into account that charmer with its 3 summoned dogs is "nearly immune" to some of attacking relic such as Oppresion relic, because that relic has literally no effect on the dogs. Charmer is actually the best at the moment especially while deffending castle where they can just wait while stuns everyone on cross so the dogs can get free hit. Imagine going siege with 60 member where 30 of them are charmers (90 dogs) also 20 locks as well as 10 addition. 90 dogs can get free hit on stunned enemy 💀💀💀

[Девочка-зайка 199]

28 минут назад, Jollier сказал:

Lets say that is true, you also didnt take into account that charmer with its 3 summoned dogs is "nearly immune" to some of attacking relic such as Oppresion relic, because that relic has literally no effect on the dogs. Charmer is actually the best at the moment especially while deffending castle where they can just wait while stuns everyone on cross so the dogs can get free hit. Imagine going siege with 60 member where 30 of them are charmers (90 dogs) also 20 locks as well as 10 addition. 90 dogs can get free hit on stunned enemy 💀💀💀

In a real fight, it's impossible to maintain three dogs; they die so quickly that any bonuses from their presence on the battlefield don't make a significant difference, especially in large-scale battles where characters immune to control are the first to enter the area, such as mages, for whom dogs are little more than a free first aid kit.

 

A single mage can destroy 14 dogs—the painstaking work of three charmers—with two skills—teleportation and shards. They don't use these skills specifically against the dogs; as PvE targets, they die "for the company." A ranger only needs one skill—hail. Paladins will kill the dogs during their initiation with a leap, which deals small but significant damage to a defenseless creature with 4,000 HP. And so it is with all AoE attacks; there's no way to prevent them, no healing will save the dogs, and AoE shields or damage reduction haven't been invented yet.

 

Undoubtedly, dogs are strong in standing defense, and this is completely offset by their helplessness in normal situations. All top charmers have long been playing PvP through magic power; every few months, I switch to the second tree when defending a castle.

[Jollier 95]

21 hours ago, Девочка-зайка said:

In a real fight, it's impossible to maintain three dogs; they die so quickly that any bonuses from their presence on the battlefield don't make a significant difference, especially in large-scale battles where characters immune to control are the first to enter the area, such as mages, for whom dogs are little more than a free first aid kit.

 

A single mage can destroy 14 dogs—the painstaking work of three charmers—with two skills—teleportation and shards. They don't use these skills specifically against the dogs; as PvE targets, they die "for the company." A ranger only needs one skill—hail. Paladins will kill the dogs during their initiation with a leap, which deals small but significant damage to a defenseless creature with 4,000 HP. And so it is with all AoE attacks; there's no way to prevent them, no healing will save the dogs, and AoE shields or damage reduction haven't been invented yet.

 

Undoubtedly, dogs are strong in standing defense, and this is completely offset by their helplessness in normal situations. All top charmers have long been playing PvP through magic power; every few months, I switch to the second tree when defending a castle.

Charmers is good on standing deffense, but a little weak on normal situations. So you want to excell on both situations. Got it

[Девочка-зайка 199]

49 минут назад, Jollier сказал:

Charmers is good on standing deffense, but a little weak on normal situations. So you want to excell on both situations. Got it

I'm not suggesting any changes. I'm saying that his balance lies in his strength in defense and weakness in attack, and I'm completely satisfied with it.

 

But if we weaken his attack, we should simultaneously strengthen his survivability. The more durable dogs and the character himself, with less damage and control, are also quite satisfactory. He'll be weaker in PvE and PvP defense, but his average effectiveness in PvP will increase significantly; that's also a balance. 

[Jollier 95]

14 hours ago, Девочка-зайка said:

I'm not suggesting any changes. I'm saying that his balance lies in his strength in defense and weakness in attack, and I'm completely satisfied with it.

 

But if we weaken his attack, we should simultaneously strengthen his survivability. The more durable dogs and the character himself, with less damage and control, are also quite satisfactory. He'll be weaker in PvE and PvP defense, but his average effectiveness in PvP will increase significantly; that's also a balance. 

For me, charmer is strong enough (or maybe TOO strong) as it is at the moment. If your summons dies easliy. Thats on your built, not the skills

[Девочка-зайка 199]

2 часа назад, Jollier сказал:

For me, charmer is strong enough (or maybe TOO strong) as it is at the moment. If your summons dies easliy. Thats on your built, not the skills

Summons don't last long in any build with any skill build, due to a systemic lack of defensive stats and low health.

 

On Ru-Ruby and Ru-Amber, two of the largest and most powerful servers, charmers are perceived by allies as PvE raid pets and by opponents as pleasant first aid kits. 

Edited November 20, 2025 by Девочка-зайка

[Jollier 95]

 

On 11/15/2025 at 7:46 PM, Девочка-зайка said:

There was no mention of crowd control or debuffs. I'm saying that the charmer's entire pack is wiped out in 1-2 mass attacks, which summons can't avoid because they are considered PvE targets, and all AoEs have a maximum number of PvE targets of over 10.

 

 

1-2 mass attacks. From your argument then charmer entire pack will get wiped out in 1-2 MASS attack. Its MASS, and 1 could fail???? That it needed 2? Damn thats strong asf for me not gonna lie. Also dogs as first aid kit? Man Vampirism stat wont even hold mages alive for that kind of fight. 

Edited November 21, 2025 by Jollier

[Девочка-зайка 199]

26 минут назад, Jollier сказал:

 

1-2 mass attacks. From your argument then charmer entire pack will get wiped out in 1-2 MASS attack. Its MASS, and 1 could fail???? That it needed 2? Damn thats strong asf for me not gonna lie. Also dogs as first aid kit? Man Vampirism stat wont even hold mages alive for that kind of fight. 

The mage manages to heal during the barrier. Maybe he won't live long, but as a minium he will get a second life at the expense of dogs, and charmer will not have time to call back the army, either the battle as a whole will end and it will be too late, or he will die, there is no fat of his own, and shamans and necromancers have higher priority goals than the poor guy without damage, healing and with one one-time mass control and debuff, which have significantly declined in the era of resistance. And there can be up to three such cripples, the work of one mage. 

[Jollier 95]

16 hours ago, Девочка-зайка said:

The mage manages to heal during the barrier. Maybe he won't live long, but as a minium he will get a second life at the expense of dogs, and charmer will not have time to call back the army, either the battle as a whole will end and it will be too late, or he will die, there is no fat of his own, and shamans and necromancers have higher priority goals than the poor guy without damage, healing and with one one-time mass control and debuff, which have significantly declined in the era of resistance. And there can be up to three such cripples, the work of one mage. 

It has to be massive attack to wipe out charmer. And even if its massive, the attack also has chance to fail since you said it would need 1-2 massive attack. Strong enough to me, you just want to be stronger. And thats the point im getting from you . You want charmer to be so strong that even 2 massive attack wont wipe it out. Or maybe even with 5 massive attack you wont be wiped out. Or simply you want it to be immortal

Edited November 22, 2025 by Jollier

[Девочка-зайка 199]

4 часа назад, Jollier сказал:

It has to be massive attack to wipe out charmer. And even if its massive, the attack also has chance to fail since you said it would need 1-2 massive attack. Strong enough to me, you just want to be stronger. And thats the point im getting from you . You want charmer to be so strong that even 2 massive attack wont wipe it out. Or maybe even with 5 massive attack you wont be wiped out. Or simply you want it to be immortal

Not "strong attacks," but "area attacks." Two low-CD area attacks (+) wipe out an entire high-CD army of several charmers, and they're not even aimed at him personally, they just hit him in passing.

Edited November 22, 2025 by Девочка-зайка

[Jollier 95]

Like they even had time to use that in standing fight 🤣

[Девочка-зайка 199]

В 23.11.2025 в 00:41, Jollier сказал:

Like they even had time to use that in standing fight 🤣

These are two key AoE skills for a mage, these are basic skills with a lot of useful relics, so they are convenient to use in the window between recharging expert skills, in the In the PvP talent tree  teleport also gives additional , they literally use them non-stop 

Edited December 11, 2025 by Девочка-зайка