Hunter's Dodge issue

[Abi 100]

Hi its me again, this time I want to talk about the issue hunter is facing when it comes to dodge 

you see we all know both Hunter and Ranger have basic dodge skill that grants them ~26% dodge which aids them in the idea of using the only defensive stat they got dodge that is.

however Ranger has an extra skill that grants them extra scaling dodge that being bitterness 

 

you see bitterness aids the ranger in fulfilling their needs when it comes to maxing their dodge parameter as it gives 10% dodge at 5 stacks, allowing them not to be forced to give up enchantment slots for dodge or changing their equipment into ones that have dodge to max out their dodge parameter 

however when we come to Hunter on the other side

Hunters used to have another way of gaining dodge aside from their basic skill just like ranger and that was through their bless of the mountain skill but when the not so long ago update came and changed the mechanic of the skill hunters lost their secondary source of dodge for no clear reason 



with the loss of their 2nd dodge source hunters unlike rangers started struggling badly to max their dodge parameter being forced into losing valuable and key enchantment slots or even equipment just to catch up to rangers and max their dodge making them fall behind or be in an UNJUSTIFIED disadvantage which is unfair specially since dodge is the only source of both hunter and ranger to survive.

thus i would like to suggest the following modification to EITHER of these 2 skills 

1st suggestion would be to  Hunter’s Mark 
Applies Hunter’s Mark to the enemy and Alert Hunter to the character for T sec. following any auto-attack or instant skill damage. Alert Hunter increases damage dealt to any targets affected by Hunter’s Mark by D% and the Dodge parameter by (0.6/1/1.4/2%). The effect stacks up to 5 times.

this is pretty basic and straight forward similar to rangers bitterness the hunter will gain dodge along side the mark extra dmg being 10% at maximum level.

my 2nd suggestion would be to  Blessing of the Mountains 
As long as character's health is above H% of Maximum Health, Increases the character’s Dodge parameter by 10% and all incoming attacks are rolled twice for dodge and only count the best result.

this one is also straight forward but it would be unique to hunter letting them maintain their idea of keeping their health above certain threshold to maintain the benefits of blessing of the mountains.

in the end i believe these modifications are important and crucial for game balance and not making hunter always 2 steps behind ranger by making hunter lose precious stats and enchantments only to be "equal" to ranger when it comes to using both classes survivability feature that being dodge.

i hope devs will look into my suggestion and hopefully consider adding it to the game before the up coming balance update with corrected values or adjusted in a way they see fit the game better, thank you 

Edited November 29 by Abi

[weakplay 15]

OK, also give the Ranger two chances to dodge

Edited November 29 by weakplay

[Italian Stallion 0]

Great suggestion! I used to play dodge hunter and loved it, but after the last rebalance I completely lost the interest for the exact same reason as Abi stated above. I would also like to mention the duration of the hunter main dodge skill being too low, in most scenarios the dodge ends before you get out of enemy cc, which wasnt the issue before. Would be great to increase to duration to around 16s for both hunter and ranger. 

Edited November 29 by Italian Stallion

[Abi 100]

14 hours ago, weakplay said:

OK, also give the Ranger two chances to dodge

rangers have the secondary benefit of bitterness being attack speed so rangers gain dodge along side speed but hunter gains their double roll only its not about being the "exact same skills" or classes its about being "equal" 

if we were to say ranger and hunter should be "the exact same" then hunters skills should be 6 yards range just like ranger, their new mahad talent should heal us too not just grant accuracy reduction because you see hunter new almahad talent grants accuracy reduction everytime they take direct hit theres no backup to if they dodge theres no 2nd benefit the only 2nd mechanic to the skill is they lose all the benefits of the talent if they dodge
 

Spoiler

rangers tho their new almahad talent grants them 4% healing if they dodge an attack WHILE ALSO grant them extra dmg IF they dont dodge and take a direct hit so rangers got 2 benefits while hunter has 1 while also suffer from 1 disadvantage of THE EXACT talent doing its job being helping with dodging an attack 
 

Spoiler

in short if you wanna talk about "being the exact same class" then yes i agree give rangers double roll but after giving hunter 6 yards skills plus extra dodge and on top of that make almahad talent gives a 2nd benefit if the hunter do dodge 

even though thats not my point because im against classes being the exact same with no unique mechanic but this post about giving hunter equal dodge increase isnt being the same idea but rather being "equal" 

 

Edited November 30 by Abi

[TheCaster 381]

16 hours ago, Abi said:

Blessing of the Mountains 

I really don't understand the HP criteria on this skill. Like you have to perform at > 50% hp at all times?

 

In this resist meta with seekers with 90 resist, BDs, mages with resist skill and WDs, I just don't see the point of this.

 

Hunters are going to get hit for sure and in most fights they're the 1st target. That passive needs a rework, lesser the HP > increased dodge checks.🤨

 

 

[weakplay 15]

1 hour ago, Abi said:

rangers have the secondary benefit of bitterness being attack speed so rangers gain dodge along side speed but hunter gains their double roll only its not about being the "exact same skills" or classes its about being "equal" 

if we were to say ranger and hunter should be "the exact same" then hunters skills should be 6 yards range just like ranger, their new mahad talent should heal us too not just grant accuracy reduction because you see hunter new almahad talent grants accuracy reduction everytime they take direct hit theres no backup to if they dodge theres no 2nd benefit the only 2nd mechanic to the skill is they lose all the benefits of the talent if they dodge

You seem to forget that the hunter has two passive abilities and the Ranger has only one passive.

Change the mark to active skill, I agree to add 10% dodge

Edited November 30 by weakplay

[Abi 100]

On 11/30/2024 at 11:06 AM, weakplay said:

You seem to forget that the hunter has two passive abilities and the Ranger has only one passive.

Change the mark to active skill, I agree to add 10% dodge

and you seem to forget that hunters blessing goes offline and completely useless if hunter goes below certain hp threshold should we also make one of ranger skills like bitterness or extra dmg skill goes offline and completely useless if their hp go below certain % ? 
you cant just look at the positive things hunter has and turn a blind eye on its disadvantages 

nevertheless i can agree with you on this one make the skill active again and make it grant 10% dodge even though this will also result in removing the hp threshold because it became active skill, great suggestion 

Edited December 1 by Abi

[weakplay 15]

2 hours ago, Abi said:

and you seem to forget that hunters blessing goes offline and completely useless if hunter goes below certain hp threshold should we also make one of ranger skills like bitterness or extra dmg skill goes offline and completely useless if their hp go below certain % ? 
you cant just look at the positive things hunter has and turn a blind eye on its disadvantages 

nevertheless i can agree with you on this one make the skill active again and make it grant 10% dodge even though this will also result in removing the hp threshold because it became active skill, great suggestion 

I'm telling you that the current Hunter also gets 2 effects from passive skills.As for the issue you mentioned in the blood volume threshold, it has nothing to do with the fairness of quantity.

If it is "meet certain conditions, then the skill effect is invalid".The Ranger actually owns it.

And you can't just look at the hunter's shortcomings and ignore the advantages

Ok, I agree, also rework the Ranger skills  Piercing Anger and make them useful in pvp as well, otherwise, in pvp, Rangers have one less skill than hunters, not doing what you call "fair"

 

In general, it would be foolish to seek such fairness. Because each profession has something the other doesn't. And you only see what the hunter lacks, you don't see what the hunter has that the Ranger doesn't.

Edited Sunday at 06:34 PM by weakplay

[Abi 100]

1 hour ago, weakplay said:

As for the issue you mentioned in the blood volume threshold, it has nothing to do with the fairness of quantity.

 how can it not? how can a skill going offline after taking 1 direct hit from a bladedancer or a ranger not considered unfair ?

1 hour ago, weakplay said:

If it is "meet certain conditions, then the skill effect is invalid".The Ranger actually owns it.

i might've missed such a thing could you show me where ranger has similar mechanics ? where if a certain thing happens then ranger skill goes completely invalid.

 

1 hour ago, weakplay said:

Ok, I agree, also rework the Ranger skills  Piercing Anger and make them useful in pvp as well, otherwise, in pvp, Rangers have one less skill than hunters, not doing what you call "fair"

sure i can agree with this but dont you also agree that in order to fulfil the idea of "fair" based on what your saying then shouldnt hunter saber shot also deals dmg on impact similar vengeful shot ? you see you're comparing many skills to each other breaking the idea of being "equal"

while im talking about the idea of both classes using their dodge parameter comfortable you cant compare the 2 ideas 
otherwise shouldnt we also mention how ranger can spam   on their blessing while hunter can only use it on stance ? making it inconsistent you see your mixing too many subjects and ideas to the simple consideration of "letting both classes use dodge comfortably" 

[Newworldorder 51]

Great suggestion. 

Also ranger has skills that hit from a yard further out than the hunter (makes 0 sense)

 

Edited Sunday at 08:14 PM by Higgings
Removed the Off-Topic part

[weakplay 15]

10 hours ago, Abi said:

how can it not? how can a skill going offline after taking 1 direct hit from a bladedancer or a ranger not considered unfair ?

You said that the ranger gets two effects from the passive, I told you that the hunter has two passives, so overall it also gets two effects, this is a discussion about quantity. The threshold you mentioned is a discussion about how the skill works, not about quantity, you understand? Even if it doesn't work after reaching the threshold, at least you get two effects at the beginning. According to your logic,because now the passive will not work after the cat dies, Can you say BM has no passive?

 

10 hours ago, Abi said:

i might've missed such a thing could you show me where ranger has similar mechanics ? where if a certain thing happens then ranger skill goes completely invalid.

There is public information on the forums, or ask your Ranger friends

 

10 hours ago, Abi said:

sure i can agree with this but dont you also agree that in order to fulfil the idea of "fair" based on what your saying then shouldnt hunter saber shot also deals dmg on impact similar vengeful shot ? you see you're comparing many skills to each other breaking the idea of being "equal"

Likewise, giving the Ranger the same stun effect as the Hunter's Sapping Shot with a Fire Arrow. I'm not advocating for this kind of fairness, I'm letting you know that it's foolish to pursue such a balance, where each class has something that the other classes don't, and also lacks something. You only see what the Hunter doesn't have but the Ranger has, but you don't see what the Ranger doesn't have but the Hunter has.

 

10 hours ago, Abi said:

while im talking about the idea of both classes using their dodge parameter comfortable you cant compare the 2 ideas 
otherwise shouldnt we also mention how ranger can spam   on their blessing while hunter can only use it on stance ? making it inconsistent you see your mixing too many subjects and ideas to the simple consideration of "letting both classes use dodge comfortably" 

Since you compared the relic of these two skills, why don't you continue to compare the way these two skills work, one is active and the other is aura. Yes, one of the advantages of active skills in combat is that you can spam relics. The advantage of aura skills is that you only need to activate them once in combat, and you don't need to activate them repeatedly. The hunter can choose to release dmg skills or control skills during the time when the ranger reactivates the blessing skill. This is one of the advantages of aura skills. Of course, if you also want to spam relics like the ranger, you can definitely suggest changing the hunter's Combat Stance from aura to an active skill.

Back to your original topic, if you implement it according to your idea, the hunter will have double dodge, 10% dodge, and mark. The ranger has: 15 attack speed and 10 dodge. I don't see what the hunter will pay in your content. In order to make the dodge more comfortable for both parties, let the hunter have more things than the ranger. Is this the fairness you advocate? Great!

Edited Monday at 05:51 AM by weakplay