Rogue Almahad talent sucks

[Joy Boy Abunda 6]

Really blade potential reduced energy cost on next skill? Who need this shlt? Fking very helpful talent.

 

Bee sting - 40% physical power of character.  occur every 3 sec?

 

Seriously devs? Is this really helpful for us to compete to other class? Funny im almost done with this sh*t, one more rebalance in December and this class nothing happened better delete this class, soo disappointed. Tsk 

Edited September 1 by Joy Boy Abunda

[Burag 2]

i agree with you

[Toad Sage 72]

This is why I haven't posted my next suggestions yet and turned out I was right. They indeed did something in relation to Almahad that changes the game in general just like what they did last year.

 

Apparently they really want rogue to spam skills. Unless rogue's skills get reworked, more efficient energy use and more cd won't help rogue because really, we have tried cd rogue before and it sucks. Also, most rogues will say 40% cd is all a rogue need and this number is easy to get even with 2 daggers at level 34.

 

Also, the dollar-store counterattack talent that we get seems to be their interpretation of our Shadow Clone idea. So that we can still damage enemies when we are stunned. But it relies on dodge now and what is with that 3 sec cooldown? Did they forget how much we hated how useless the old reflexes was with 2 sec cooldown?

 

But I think at this point they are done until rebalance. We must work on next suggestions based on the informations we have until now. If they won't change the new talents for rogue, they must change the current skills rogue has so that spamming them gets us some benefit to compete.

[Theweasel 187]

Maybe kick in the back is gonna be reworked into a permanent skill, bcz  the energy spent right now is the least of rogues problems

[Gladiator 1169]

On 8/29/2024 at 4:59 PM, Ramona said:

 Harad's Armor
Reduces the duration of non-control harmful effects on the character by 1% for every 5% of remaining health. For control effects, the duration is reduced by 1% for every 5% of missing health.

What do you guys think about Seekers getting an in-built mini octopus book when they already have resistance buff while Rogue doesn't have anything to counter controls? Why did they not listen to you? :(

 

[pawned 85]

25 minutes ago, Gladiator said:

What do you guys think about Seekers getting an in-built mini octopus book when they already have resistance buff while Rogue doesn't have anything to counter controls? Why did they not listen to you? :(

we got reduced energy cost that gonna save us.

 

On 8/29/2024 at 4:59 PM, Ramona said:

 Blade Potential
Using an instant damage skill applies Blade Potential to the character for 8 sec, reducing the energy cost of the next class skill used by 40% and its cooldown by 20%.

[greyrat 13]

the pve talent only works in monsters but the sekker talent works in everything

[Joy Boy Abunda 6]

1 hour ago, Gladiator said:

What do you guys think about Seekers getting an in-built mini octopus book when they already have resistance buff while Rogue doesn't have anything to counter controls? Why did they not listen to you? :(

 

Obviously devs here are one sided.

1 hour ago, pawned said:

we got reduced energy cost that gonna save us.

 

Clown effect 

[Joy Boy Abunda 6]

1 hour ago, pawned said:

we got reduced energy cost that gonna save us.

 

Also bee sting triggered when physical dmg only not included magic dmg. Lol they better delete this class exchange it with another assassin class

[Gladiator 1169]

1 hour ago, Joy Boy Abunda said:

Also bee sting triggered when physical dmg only not included magic dmg. Lol they better delete this class exchange it with another assassin class

It's 40% of the Rogue's physical damage..

 

[Toad Sage 72]

3 hours ago, Gladiator said:

What do you guys think about Seekers getting an in-built mini octopus book when they already have resistance buff while Rogue doesn't have anything to counter controls? Why did they not listen to you? :(

 

This is coping but I must say we need to wait until rebalance announcement to conclude whether or not to be fully sad.

 

Because who knows, with such less energy consumption and faster cd, maybe they will let us replace harmony crystals with resist runes somehow.

[pawned 85]

17 minutes ago, Toad Sage said:

Because who knows, with such less energy consumption and faster cd, maybe they will let us replace harmony crystals with resist runes somehow.

I mean you dont really need to run harmony crystals at all in your gear (besides belt) and you are doing just fine with a rotations and not running out of mana.  So thats totaly useless as mana was never a problem....

 

When it comes to 20% CD buff (not like we already got a huge CD buff from Extermination for using Axes) gonna do additional 1s +/- cut on skills CD.

 

Thats completely worthless "Buff" for rogue if you check other classes and their changes 

 

 

[Toad Sage 72]

5 minutes ago, pawned said:

I mean you dont really need to run harmony crystals at all in your gear (besides belt) and you are doing just fine with a rotations and not running out of mana.  So thats totaly useless as mana was never a problem....

 

When it comes to 20% CD buff (not like we already got a huge CD buff from Extermination for using Axes) gonna do additional 1s +/- cut on skills CD.

 

Thats completely worthless "Buff" for rogue if you check other classes and their changes 

 

 

That's why with super positive thinking, MAYBE they are planning to give rogues another permanent skill. We need to wait until further announcements to be sad.

[vavavi 249]

41 minutes ago, pawned said:

I mean you dont really need to run harmony crystals at all in your gear (besides belt) and you are doing just fine with a rotations and not running out of mana.  So thats totaly useless as mana was never a problem....

 

When it comes to 20% CD buff (not like we already got a huge CD buff from Extermination for using Axes) gonna do additional 1s +/- cut on skills CD.

 

Thats completely worthless "Buff" for rogue if you check other classes and their changes 

 

 

It's not a 20% cd stat buff, it's -20% cd from the skills cd itself. It's much stronger than just a stat boost

[Salazam 535]

2 minutes ago, vavavi disse:

It's not a 20% cd stat buff, it's -20% cd from the skills cd itself. It's much stronger than just a stat boost

I agree with you. However, rogues only have one basic rotational damage ability, meaning they will still be very limited by the GCD. As good as this talent is, rogues will not be able to use it as efficiently.

[Gladiator 1169]

1 hour ago, pawned said:

Thats completely worthless "Buff" for rogue if you check other classes and their changes 

I don't see any huge difference between what Rogue got and other classes got. These talents in general don't seem like they're anything meta-changing or for balancing purposes. It's mostly just small passives that help out a little bit.

They're not meant to be treated as the 3 branches for example but more so equivalent to the very first class skill talents.

 

I'd say support classes got the best talents, but they benefit everyone on both sides. And a most other talents are maybe a tier below that but they're still quite good for what they are. Besides a couple of talents maybe (Seeker and BD) which I think might get nerfed depending on how they play out in tests, there is nothing all that game-changing.

Edited September 1 by Gladiator

[pawned 85]

34 minutes ago, vavavi said:

It's not a 20% cd stat buff, it's -20% cd from the skills cd itself. It's much stronger than just a stat boost

its still gonna be within this range. There is like 2-3 skills which are above between range of 10 - 14s (Dodge, gouge and extermination ) where the 20% cut gonna be little bit higher than 1s, but what it will change ? You are already able to cycle them atm, so what it will change ? 

 

Damage skills are in range of 5 - 8.5s. having 20% cut from them not gonna do any change in gameplay. You still will cycle all your skills the same way. Only thing that will change is that you will be able to use Strike  a second sooner after you are stunned (if you survive)

[pawned 85]

31 minutes ago, Gladiator said:

I don't see any huge difference between what Rogue got and other classes got. These talents in general don't seem like they're anything meta-changing or for balancing purposes. It's mostly just small passives that help out a little bit.

They're not meant to be treated as the 3 branches for example but more so equivalent to the very first class skill talents.

 

I'd say support classes got the best talents, but they benefit everyone on both sides. And a most other talents are maybe a tier below that but they're still quite good for what they are. Besides a couple of talents maybe (Seeker and BD) which I think might get nerfed depending on how they play out in tests, there is nothing all that game-changing.

Sure,  but exactly small changes is what makes a difference in a game (otherwise why would you be buying books for your class, its only 2-3% diff in your stats, right ?).

 

I mean there is alot of good changes / improvements / boosts for multiple classes which help them either with dmg /survivability etc... , which is not once again a case for rogue - not even close

 

[Gladiator 1169]

25 minutes ago, pawned said:

I mean there is alot of good changes / improvements / boosts for multiple classes which help them either with dmg /survivability etc... , which is not once again a case for rogue - not even close

How did you come to this conclusion before even testing the talents?

 

[pawned 85]

4 minutes ago, Gladiator said:

How did you come to this conclusion before even testing the talents?

Which part ? the one that there is alot of good changes for multiple classes or that rogue "changes" sucks once again ? 

[Joy Boy Abunda 6]

3 hours ago, Toad Sage said:

That's why with super positive thinking, MAYBE they are planning to give rogues another permanent skill. We need to wait until further announcements to be sad.

I have a bad feeling about this, since they only buff rogue slightly every year. Not even massive changes tskk. I feel like im weakened 

Edited September 1 by Joy Boy Abunda

[Gladiator 1169]

2 hours ago, pawned said:

Which part ? the one that there is alot of good changes for multiple classes or that rogue "changes" sucks once again ? 

Exactly.

[BlacklistEU 11]

ure wrong guys, this passive that give us cd i good thing, u just need use ur brain cells and  think how to use it correctly, i know what im gonna do with this and this gonna be broken 

 

[Theweasel 187]

9 minutes ago, BlacklistEU said:

 i know what im gonna do with this and this gonna be broken 

 

Build a full cd build?

[Theweasel 187]

I don't know how effective the reduction of  energy can be to rogues if we take into account that it was always a minor problem.

 

The cd part... It's not good but it's not a big deal either, it's not that it was too necessary anyway.

 

I still think that maybe there's something planned for the rogue

Maybe the kick in the back or the dodge skill gonna be reworked to an permanent skill, idk...

 

Bee sting doesnt look that bad, just hope the damage reflected could crit too, or leave the cooldown to 2 sec, that would  help a bit to do solo tech like other dps, because nobody accept rogues anymore, even on such popular quests like is tech.

 

 

[Joy Boy Abunda 6]

On 9/1/2024 at 9:50 PM, Toad Sage said:

That's why with super positive thinking, MAYBE they are planning to give rogues another permanent skill. We need to wait until further announcements to be sad.

I just tested it by now and guess what i was right the almahad rogue talent suck blade potential and bee sting useless... The only good thing here is the quick kill and other 2 super useless talent

Edited September 2 by Joy Boy Abunda

[greyrat 13]

23 minutes ago, Joy Boy Abunda disse:

Acabei de testar agora e adivinhe, estou certo, o talento do Almahad Rogue suga o potencial da lâmina e a picada de abelha é inútil... A única coisa boa aqui é a morte rápida e outros 2 talentos super inúteis

The problem is that if you want to make good use of it you can't use its main skills at first 

[Theweasel 187]

Blade potential 2/10

Bee sting 5/10

Quick kill 7/10

 

If the cooldown of bee sting is  removed the talent becomes 10/10

[Toad Sage 72]

30 minutes ago, Joy Boy Abunda said:

I just tested it by now and guess what im right the almahad rogue talent suck blade potential and bee sting useless... The only good thing here is the quick kill and other 2 super useless talent

I have also tested it and I am so afraid to say that even tho Bee Sting seems like minor improvement (tbf all others are too), they may nerf it after this.

 

The talent's reflected damage seems to be ignoring dodge, block, and parry, maybe I just haven't tested often enough but that's my impression so far.

 

Another thing is the damage reflection seems to interact with Stunning parameter. You can stun enemy by just dodging.

 

This seems like Devs' interpretation of our Shadow Clone idea. So that we can counter damage and counter control even just by using dodge. But I am afraid they will nerf it to make it even more insignificant. Because to me it is like 6/10, and this number seems to be too good for Rogue, knowing the history of our nerfs. Hopefully I am at least wrong about the possibility of nerf. And I wish they buff rogue more during rebalance to fix the remaining issues.

 

Blade Potential is still a big question mark. Yes, it is an improvement but it is like installing turbo in a bicycle. It doesnt make you go faster and surely we can say it doesn't cost more gas.

 

Hopefully more testers will include their results here. And I really want to be wrong about the usefulness of Blade Potential. It has potential in its name.

[Gladiator 1169]

5 hours ago, Toad Sage said:

The talent's reflected damage seems to be ignoring dodge, block, and parry, maybe I just haven't tested often enough but that's my impression so far.

Another thing is the damage reflection seems to interact with Stunning parameter. You can stun enemy by just dodging.

...

to me it is like 6/10,

That's crazy,,, Even if it did 0 damage and triggered stuns that would be an insanely strong talent and definitely 10/10 considering the magnitude of all other Almahad talents. What are you on about?!

 

But of course if your definition of 10/10 is a broken mechanic:

5 hours ago, Theweasel said:

If the cooldown of bee sting is  removed the talent becomes 10/10

Then you guys will never be satisfied lol.

[Toad Sage 72]

1 hour ago, Gladiator said:

That's crazy,,, Even if it did 0 damage and triggered stuns that would be an insanely strong talent and definitely 10/10 considering the magnitude of all other Almahad talents. What are you on about?!

 

But of course if your definition of 10/10 is a broken mechanic:

Then you guys will never be satisfied lol.

Ofc I expected you to say this thing and not less. But it will stay 6/10 until I know what they hold for rebalance. I will gladly reevaluate my rating but giving it better rating without the context of rebalance is risky even if some talent is 9-10/10 during test server one can't give that rating during the test server.

 

It will be 2/10 without the 2 worrying things I mentioned because 40% of physical damage is straight up killing daggers for rogue. 6/10 if they keep the 2 things. 9/10 is if the talent has shorter gap between effect. 10/10 is impossible to achieve in practical gameplay. During test server, maybe.

Edited September 2 by Toad Sage

[Theweasel 187]

3 hours ago, Gladiator said:

That's crazy,,, Even if it did 0 damage and triggered stuns that would be an insanely strong talent and definitely 10/10 considering the magnitude of all other Almahad talents. What are you on about?!

 

But of course if your definition of 10/10 is a broken mechanic:

That talent aint 100% sucessful , it work together with dodge chance...

A sucessful dodge is more likely to come from absolute reflexes than from dodge stat in pvp scenarios.

 

But you wouldn't understand that, And frankly I don't expect  you do.

Edited September 3 by Theweasel

[Toad Sage 72]

4 hours ago, Gladiator said:

But of course if your definition of 10/10 is a broken mechanic:

Yes, my definition of 10/10 skill or talent is something broken that shouldn't exist. Or maybe you weren't talking to me about this part. Hopefully not.

[Joy Boy Abunda 6]

18 hours ago, Gladiator said:

That's crazy,,, Even if it did 0 damage and triggered stuns that would be an insanely strong talent and definitely 10/10 considering the magnitude of all other Almahad talents. What are you on about?!

 

Strong talent and Magnitude of all other Almahad talents, bee sting arround 200-400 dmg in pvp. While blade potential is useless trash talent.

LooooL 10/10 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

 

Edited September 3 by Joy Boy Abunda

[Toad Sage 72]

3 hours ago, Theweasel said:

That talent aint 100% sucessful , it work together with dodge chance...

A sucessful dodge is more likely to come from absolute reflexes than from dodge stat in pvp scenarios.

 

But you wouldn't understand that, And frankly I don't expect  you do.

Even if we assume we have 60% dodge and enemy has 0% accuracy it will become 60% x our stun parameter %.

 

So if we have 12% Stun (which we normally do if we put stun instead of other enchants), it will be ~7% chance to stun with 3 sec cd to repeat that 7% chance. Remember passive Stun parameter's main users are speed dagger users which can benefit from it with 0.8 sec delay between attacks. And they will have 16-20% passive stun. So, I don't think this is any great but to make it worse, it may get nerfed. Because I am yet to see such secondary-tertiary effect in other damage reflections. Is this gonna be an exception, I can't tell.

 

Unrelated to this, I really regret how devs seem to forget dagger pvp rogues exist. By making the reflected damage 40% of physical damage (which becomes around 300-400 damage hit on resil enemy). This damage reflection should also take into account the attack strength parameter from rogue to compensate dagger users.

 

I haven't tested that tbh, I just didn't think of it because we didn't use daggers. Anyway, hopefully they add new things for rebalance.

Edited September 3 by Toad Sage

[Toad Sage 72]

3 hours ago, Joy Boy Abunda said:

Strong talent and Magnitude of all other Almahad talents. While blade potential is useless trash talent.

LooooL 10/10 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

 

This is very sad. It is our right to question why should our "balance" come from a very far, deep, depressing grinding of Almahad talent instead of being in skills and basic talent trees like other classes. Even if our Almahad talents are indeed op and better (which aren't) than others, this is still our right to get the balance we deserve.

 

Unless, ofc, they have more buffs for us in rebalance. Which I still believe in.

[Gladiator 1169]

Again, you guys have too high of an expectation from these generally pretty small boosts from Almahad talents. They're not supposed to fix classes' major problems, there will be a rebalance in a couple of momths for that. Think of them more like the horror/christmas talents and less like new skills or those big 3 talent branches.

[Theweasel 187]

9 hours ago, Gladiator said:

Again, you guys have too high of an expectation from these generally pretty small boosts from Almahad talents. They're not supposed to fix classes' major problems, there will be a rebalance in a couple of momths for that. Think of them more like the horror/christmas talents and less like new skills or those big 3 talent branches.

Those "small boosts" are turning bladedancers into a toxic class to all other melee classes

[BlacklistEU 11]

On 9/1/2024 at 9:35 PM, Theweasel said:

I don't know how effective the reduction of  energy can be to rogues if we take into account that it was always a minor problem.

 

The cd part... It's not good but it's not a big deal either, it's not that it was too necessary anyway.

 

I still think that maybe there's something planned for the rogue

Maybe the kick in the back or the dodge skill gonna be reworked to an permanent skill, idk...

 

Bee sting doesnt look that bad, just hope the damage reflected could crit too, or leave the cooldown to 2 sec, that would  help a bit to do solo tech like other dps, because nobody accept rogues anymore, even on such popular quests like is tech.

 

 

rogues at pve have one of best skills, tornado of blades is so good for clearing maps, and this skill is also good in pvp to quick restore some hp from lifesteal, little bit low dmg but u getting some hits that give u some health

most rogues just copy builds from others. thats the reason why most of them just crying, u have to spend some mcoins or gold, buy some oblivion books and test whats playstyle gonna be best for u guys. im playing rogue and with my exprience i can say its not the best class and its not worst one, just learn all about rogues and practice ur playstyle

 

[Theweasel 187]

6 hours ago, BlacklistEU said:

rogues at pve have one of best skills, tornado of blades is so good for clearing maps, and this skill is also good in pvp to quick restore some hp from lifesteal, little bit low dmg but u getting some hits that give u some health

most rogues just copy builds from others. thats the reason why most of them just crying, u have to spend some mcoins or gold, buy some oblivion books and test whats playstyle gonna be best for u guys. im playing rogue and with my exprience i can say its not the best class and its not worst one, just learn all about rogues and practice ur playstyle

 

There is nothing much to test on rogues,  i would bet, that even rogues that never seen a guide or a skill build from someone else, gonna end up with the same skill build anyway  bcz It's what works best in the  pve content