Rogue needs a life

[omr 19]

First I want to say rogue me think he not useful in this gm because everyone has good skills. but why not rogue have it too .he just useless now .see like bd seeker reaper chief they a melee class but they have skill give resist and have skill heal good so why rogue not have it will he be fighting every year just by luck like that skill a priest how rogue will a skip it. with out something gives resist just depends on luck for skip it 

 and this skill a priest can use all time on him and we not have skill resist like melee class others and we not have skill heal good like any class.we have skill heal but it bad and it is very difficult to use it.and this not help us  much we need to have to play with our skill not on  luck we need to take a good look at this class and there is people loves him it and does not want to playing any others class  and we hope every year will be good we need ease of use  in the healing skill and some resist and some little defense with dodge. rogue he has the same right like any class other need buff that is not an outcast 

 

 

 

 

                          Add some suggestions

 

 

 

1:Illusive jump skill rework

 

Change in skill and be without goal make the skill when you jump on the players give protection against any effects maximum 2 for skill 4/4 with dmg 120% 2×2 yard  skill no longer Increase damage with poison 

                                 

 

                               Suggest 2

 

Change in skill to be targetless and make the skill when you jump on the players gives an effect like ×% resist  Can make the skill no longer Increase damage with poison as nerf.

 

 

 

 

 

                              comment :

 

It is very difficult catching enemies And deal with them, This will give better freedom and mobility for rogue.

 

 

 

 

2: Absolute reflexes rework:

 

need adjustment to its protection, as of now at 4/4, it activates after receiving dmg equal to 10% of health, problem here is people can do 3k-2k dmg on you with the first hit and only then you can dodge the next hit.... then you are vulnerable for 4 SECONDS- in this period rogue has no protection and easily gets deleted. I suggest you make it like this

 

When the character lose 10% of health, the dmg shouldn't exceed that 10% of health. Then reflexes is activated making it 100% dodge the next attack.

 

For example if you have 10k health, the first hit can only take 10% of health which is 1k dmg. and applies the reflexes to dodge the next one. Because people can do alot of dmg exceeding the threshold of 10% of hp in the first hit making u lose so much health as a requirement to trigger guaranteed dodge. So i suggest adding a limit to the dmg after cd 4s 

 

 

                      Change in talent 

 

 

Tirelessness:

 

Reduces the accuracy of all enemy attacks by 5% when the character is unaffected by Absolute Reflexes.↓

 

5% Very little, make it  15%

 

                            comment :

 

 

5% Very little We have skill kick in back _45% Of accuracy .if on player .And still The player hits rogue And it won't be Dodge 100% It would be like 50% just one hit one dodge So what do 5% 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

3:Poisonous blades skill

 

Skill Poison now It heals 40% from damage poison 

 

                           

 

                         comment 

 

rogue currently can heal up to only 15% if you use trick skill while enemy has poison. But the issue here is the trick skill can miss, get blocked and we dont heal becs of it. further more 15% is very very low anyways. Another issue is you only have couple secs to press trick while poison is on enemy to heal. Once the poison effect is gone, you cant heal. too Don't make it comes out character  immediately. if injured with poison

 

 

 

 

4:skill ricochet 

 

This skill has very little damage ↓

 

Attacks the enemy, dealing physical damage to them for 95% of the character's Physical Power and to all enemies within 4 yards. Each subsequent target takes 10% less damag   

 

 This is the skill we rely on in wars to gvg pve And everything  ↓

 

Now the skill gives 120%.from damage Physical and Each subsequent target takes 5% less damage .for skill 4/4 

 

 

 

5:Furiousness skill 

 

The skill also gives 12% attack strength or Accuracy 12%

 

                               comment :

 

All charac has a booster Helps the charac for skip some crystals from items .to rogue doesn't have any boosters

 

 

 

 

6: kick in back skill 

 

kick in back working now Reduces pene too 15% for skil. 4/4

 

 

                                 

I really hope they look Developers to this class It's really very old And need a lot Of things In order to be Good at the game I hope that everyone who left it will come back again Everyone doesn't want him for anything now They don't even want to add it to anything like guild / Arena / too pve. All of rogues . suffers from this weakness I hope that changes 

                           

 

 

 

Edited August 7, 2024 by omr

[Toad Sage 103]

I just want to add that this Omr guy, while not so good at English (like the rest of us, only a bit worse, I still love him tho), he is one of the best rogue players out there. I have watched him fight several times.

 

And it is also true that if you compare how Seekers fight classes with control, like Priest, in this topic, they have an absolute method to fight back and win while rogues will need 5, 6, 7 rounds of stealths just to wish they can hit Priests while resisting their annoying control. It's comical. And only very few can survive to 5th stealth.

 

Yes, with the latest update, we finally have the CHANCE to survive long enough to 7th round of stealth. And to the devs' credit, it solved our legendary 100% Instant-Death-Problem. It doesn't give us what it takes to win for most players.

 

Even for Omr who is crazy rich in the game with books, if you compare his fights with Seeker's against controlling or kiting classes, something is still wrong.

[Newworldorder 72]

@Julio can we get your thoughts? 

[omr 19]

to that priest with great lv31 +9  and rogue finds it difficult to kill him if he was a priest with greatness and books .rogue never can win but if seeker will win easy 

Edited July 25, 2024 by omr

[Shax 98]

Rip rogue. every year passes, it collects dust in everyones account with little to no use. 

 

Its very important next rebalance should introduce 2 of these 3 buffs to rogue:

 

-Better heal

-Dmg reduction 

-Resist buff

 

 

Commentary:

At the moment rogue can't heal without relying on lifesteal and if one want more dodge he has to sacrifice lifesteal as a whole. And lifesteal can't even heal you when you are stunned. Nor is dodge anymore reliable in the game since other stats are much more valuable. Additionally having 0 dmg reduction makes rogue vulnerable to being killed in few hits from other dmg classes and even healers can delete rogue with no struggle. Being killed in as little as 4-5 secs even as having max resilience. Introducing a buffed easier heal with the help of one of either more resistance ability to the class or a form of damage reduction ability will make for a much solid usable class.

 

 

 

 

[omr 19]

1 hour ago, Shax said:

 

Its very important next rebalance should introduce 2 of these 3 buffs to rogue:

 

-Better heal

-Dmg reduction 

-Resist buff

 

 

Yes I agree with u shax at least we need two of them at very least for rogue he misses 3 if we got 2 of them think will at least as good as seeker maybe 

Edited July 25, 2024 by omr

[Joy Boy Abunda 10]

To developer better delete this class and exchange with new assassin class.

 

This class useless in pve and pvp, ill give one more balance patch of this class, if this class still hasn't change I'll better invest to another worthy class

Edited July 26, 2024 by Joy Boy Abunda

[omr 19]

47 minutes ago, Joy Boy Abunda said:

To developer better delete this class and exchange with new assassin class.

 

This class useless in pve and pvp, ill give one more balance patch of this class, if this class still not change I'll better invest to another worthy class

 Know all rogues upset that it's not there buff good but we will we're trying this year to explain more to  developers I wish I would really they look  at this class . what is missing from it .don't despair and that won't work rogue will remains a rogue, but at least we need to have a balance of In strength like the rest of the other class 

Edited July 26, 2024 by omr

[Joy Boy Abunda 10]

35 minutes ago, omr said:

Haha that won't work rogue will remains a rogue, but at least we need to have a balance of In strength like the rest of the other class 

Actually i just quit the game last February. Just need to rest playing this bias game, Im so disappointed last balancing, the new passive skill was cool and good, but that wasn't enough. They just buff slightly but doesn't make sense at all still not playable class. I expect more buff on this class and add new skills and revamp those some useless skill. 2024 we are in future now and still this class hasn't evolve yet. Devs are not being creative. All they just want money money money money money

They don't even care in international player they only care on russians server

 

Maybe I'll back playing this game someday but not as a rogue class anymore 

Edited July 26, 2024 by Joy Boy Abunda

[Toad Sage 103]

5 hours ago, Joy Boy Abunda said:

Actually i just quit the game last February. Just need to rest playing this bias game, Im so disappointed last balancing, the new passive skill was cool and good, but that wasn't enough. They just buff slightly but doesn't make sense at all still not playable class. I expect more buff on this class and add new skills and revamp those some useless skill. 2024 we are in future now and still this class hasn't evolve yet. Devs are not being creative. All they just want money money money money money

They don't even care in international player they only care on russians server

 

Maybe I'll back playing this game someday but not as a rogue class anymore 

Then we will try our best to get you and other rogues back by making new (actually same old ideas the devs ignored) suggestions. Maybe our last resort

[vavavi 276]

If

On 7/25/2024 at 5:00 AM, Toad Sage said:

I just want to add that this Omr guy, while not so good at English (like the rest of us, only a bit worse, I still love him tho), he is one of the best rogue players out there. I have watched him fight several times.

 

And it is also true that if you compare how Seekers fight classes with control, like Priest, in this topic, they have an absolute method to fight back and win while rogues will need 5, 6, 7 rounds of stealths just to wish they can hit Priests while resisting their annoying control. It's comical. And only very few can survive to 5th stealth.

 

Yes, with the latest update, we finally have the CHANCE to survive long enough to 7th round of stealth. And to the devs' credit, it solved our legendary 100% Instant-Death-Problem. It doesn't give us what it takes to win for most players.

 

Even for Omr who is crazy rich in the game with books, if you compare his fights with Seeker's against controlling or kiting classes, something is still wrong.

If he really is one of the best rogue users, then in that vid hes failing on purpose. Also it's showcasing a unbuffed 1v1 scenario which isn't relevant. I mean i could hop on my bd, fight a weaker ranger and on purpose run into his traps, die, make a similiar video and then claim bds need a buff. 

Edited July 27, 2024 by vavavi

[Gladiator 1207]

You're right, Chieftain, Reaper and BD need to nerfed!

 

[Toad Sage 103]

1 hour ago, vavavi said:

If

If he really is one of the best rogue users, then in that vid hes failing on purpose. Also it's showcasing a unbuffed 1v1 scenario which isn't relevant. I mean i could hop on my bd, fight a weaker ranger and on purpose run into his traps, die, make a similiar video and then claim bds need a buff.

It's very interesting that you use imagination to respond to a real video. Also, yes, if you use BD and get caught in RANGER's trap, you MUST do it on purpose, otherwise, idk the exact polite word to describe that, maybe there isn't any.

 

BD has resist skill, also, trap is not the same as Priest's skill. You can jump over trap or go other way or maybe use ranged skills.

 

A rogue however, no matter how you look at a rogue vs priest fight, you WILL get caught in their annoying skill.

 

1. No resist

2. Their cd speed is faster than the skill's cd

3. There is no other way to avoid their control WHILE trying to damage them. Any hit will put rogues in control

4. You go stealth, they heal full hp.

 

I speak from experience and from witnessing fellow rogue's fights that they will do exactly what I described.

 

1. Use stealth

2. Get controlled

3. If they survive, return to 1

4. With some luck, maybe reaction relic gets activated, or resist stat works, they can hit the priest and deliver some control

5. Hope step 4 works otherwise, they heal full hp and if rogue survives that, return to 1.

 

This is just one example how hopeless it is for rogue against control classes.

 

Again, don't bring irrelevant imaginations to a problem a specific class is having.

[weakplay 16]

I can only say that you chose the wrong video, this video does not show that rogue is strong, but still lost

The priest also has no resistance skills, yet he resists most of the control that rogue gives him, whereas rogue , on the other hand, has little resistance. You say the problem with rogue is that it has no resistance skills, but as far as the video goes, the priest also has no resistance skills, so why is there such a big difference?

Another problem I noticed is that rogue gives a very short stun time, please include an interface for equipment and skill points in the next video.

 

I also noticed that you did not use potions and scrolls in your video, which is untrue. In real combat, people will use potions and scrolls to increase the resistance probability, and then the rogue can also get a good resistance probability,It might have ended differently.

1 hour ago, Gladiator said:

You're right, Chieftain, Reaper and BD need to nerfed!

It's a problem with the game as a whole, crazy damage, crazy tanks ,need to be fixed at the same time, not just a few classes.

Edited July 27, 2024 by weakplay

[omr 19]

How will use buff on rogue for more  resist u do this in 1vs1…?  and look good video this skill can priest use it all time ok rogue have skill stun but will I start to hit him first without a signal؟

this skill on him all times for just for skip it ya want use full buff or rely on luck otherwise, our problem is not only resist we We have a lack of defence and skill heal so complicated reverse others and maybe rogue good but not like his seeker he have shield and have like 28% resist from skill and talent other than that he have dmg op then rogue 25% attack strength and pene 10% rogue just have a society they hate 

Edited July 27, 2024 by omr

[vavavi 276]

8 hours ago, Toad Sage said:

It's very interesting that you use imagination to respond to a real video. Also, yes, if you use BD and get caught in RANGER's trap, you MUST do it on purpose, otherwise, idk the exact polite word to describe that, maybe there isn't any.

 

BD has resist skill, also, trap is not the same as Priest's skill. You can jump over trap or go other way or maybe use ranged skills.

 

A rogue however, no matter how you look at a rogue vs priest fight, you WILL get caught in their annoying skill.

 

1. No resist

2. Their cd speed is faster than the skill's cd

3. There is no other way to avoid their control WHILE trying to damage them. Any hit will put rogues in control

4. You go stealth, they heal full hp.

 

I speak from experience and from witnessing fellow rogue's fights that they will do exactly what I described.

 

1. Use stealth

2. Get controlled

3. If they survive, return to 1

4. With some luck, maybe reaction relic gets activated, or resist stat works, they can hit the priest and deliver some control

5. Hope step 4 works otherwise, they heal full hp and if rogue survives that, return to 1.

 

This is just one example how hopeless it is for rogue against control classes.

 

Again, don't bring irrelevant imaginations to a problem a specific class is having.

Yea, you would have to run over traps on purpose, kind of like repeatedly using your one ranged stun from stealth on priests burden? 

Not to mention with buffs people nowadays can reach 70+ resist with ease, there is no "you WILL get caught in x stun" in this meta.

 

1. You don't even need to change your set from a regular rogues set much in order to easily reach 70% resist

2.  There are multiple ways to avoid those controls. Even if you ignore the existance of buffs, there were multiple times in that video where the rogue could have played better. By for example

           A. Not wasting throwing knife directly from stealth, but instead waiting for a chance to use it when priests burden is nearly done. This would open far more opportunities when compared to wasting it as a first skill

           B. Using a different build. A skill setup with max gouge for example could fairly easily allow the rogue to wait out a burden before starting to do dmg.

3. Considering it takes 1-2 stuns max to kill the priest, healing to full hp, which won't even happen everytime, isn't relevant.

4. If the way you describe is truly the maximum depth of any rogue players efforts, it's no wonder they struggle. 

 

Idk what it is with rogue players, but it's always complaining instead of trying different things to win. You said it yourself, every rogue plays the exact same, it's not a surprise people learn to counter that.

 

Edited July 27, 2024 by vavavi

[mjk4 12]

5 hours ago, vavavi said:

A. Not wasting throwing knife directly from stealth, but instead waiting for a chance to use it when priests burden is nearly done. This would open far more opportunities when compared to wasting it as a first skill

In case u havent read priest skill, i'll link it for u

10s buff, 7s stun and 14s cd. Unless priest is disconected, i dont see how their burden can run out

 

[Toad Sage 103]

8 hours ago, vavavi said:

Yea, you would have to run over traps on purpose, kind of like repeatedly using your one ranged stun from stealth on priests burden? 

Not to mention with buffs people nowadays can reach 70+ resist with ease, there is no "you WILL get caught in x stun" in this meta.

 

1. You don't even need to change your set from a regular rogues set much in order to easily reach 70% resist

2.  There are multiple ways to avoid those controls. Even if you ignore the existance of buffs, there were multiple times in that video where the rogue could have played better. By for example

           A. Not wasting throwing knife directly from stealth, but instead waiting for a chance to use it when priests burden is nearly done. This would open far more opportunities when compared to wasting it as a first skill

           B. Using a different build. A skill setup with max gouge for example could fairly easily allow the rogue to wait out a burden before starting to do dmg.

3. Considering it takes 1-2 stuns max to kill the priest, healing to full hp, which won't even happen everytime, isn't relevant.

4. If the way you describe is truly the maximum depth of any rogue players efforts, it's no wonder they struggle. 

 

Idk what it is with rogue players, but it's always complaining instead of trying different things to win. You said it yourself, every rogue plays the exact same, it's not a surprise people learn to counter that.

 

So, in summary, just like the previous year(s), you deny the problem was in the class, rather, it is the player, right?

 

How about this, we will continue pointing out what WE (people who actually play the class for years) find wrong and hope devs fix that.

 

Last year, we pointed out some problems with Tirelessness talent and too much accuracy is in the game making us weak with no reliable defense. I remember you said similar thing, including "Rogue is not even that weak" while at the same time not being a rogue yourself. We were right and the problems were worked on.

 

And we made a mistake last year by trying to entertain people who deny our problem. Wasting time and energy, maybe this year, we will focus on ourselves now. I personally will cease to respond to denial of our problems.

 

We know that our specific ideas may not be added to the game. Or the chance is too low for that. But we don't want to just point out problems without putting our own ideas for possible solutions. But without pointing out the problems, we know the class will die.

 

There are legit things to complain about rogue but the players are so few you rarely hear anything other than from us, the remaining rogue.

 

So, that's it. Another "it's not the class, it's the player" will not be entertained this time.

[vavavi 276]

1 hour ago, Toad Sage said:

So, in summary, just like the previous year(s), you deny the problem was in the class, rather, it is the player, right?

 

How about this, we will continue pointing out what WE (people who actually play the class for years) find wrong and hope devs fix that.

 

Last year, we pointed out some problems with Tirelessness talent and too much accuracy is in the game making us weak with no reliable defense. I remember you said similar thing, including "Rogue is not even that weak" while at the same time not being a rogue yourself. We were right and the problems were worked on.

 

And we made a mistake last year by trying to entertain people who deny our problem. Wasting time and energy, maybe this year, we will focus on ourselves now. I personally will cease to respond to denial of our problems.

 

We know that our specific ideas may not be added to the game. Or the chance is too low for that. But we don't want to just point out problems without putting our own ideas for possible solutions. But without pointing out the problems, we know the class will die.

 

There are legit things to complain about rogue but the players are so few you rarely hear anything other than from us, the remaining rogue.

 

So, that's it. Another "it's not the class, it's the player" will not be entertained this time.

Whether or not you want to entertain anything doesn't matter. Everyone wants the class they have invested time and money into to be buffed. If playing a class was a requirement for having an opinion about said class, all anyone would ever say is that every class needs to be buffed. 

 

In your opinion these are legitimate problems, but that's it. It's just your opinion. You playing said class doesn't somehow make your opinion any more valid than the opinions of others. Only thing that should matter in a discussion are the points being made in favor or against. If you refuse to "entertain" any opinion thats different from yours then the discussion will never go anywhere. It's the equivalent of a 3 year old covering their ears and going 'lalalala" to ignore something they don't want to hear. 

Edited July 27, 2024 by vavavi

[Toad Sage 103]

58 minutes ago, vavavi said:

Whether or not you want to entertain anything doesn't matter. Everyone wants the class they have invested time and money into to be buffed. If playing a class was a requirement for having an opinion about said class, all anyone would ever say is that every class needs to be buffed. 

 

In your opinion these are legitimate problems, but that's it. It's just your opinion. You playing said class doesn't somehow make your opinion any more valid than the opinions of others. Only thing that should matter in a discussion are the points being made in favor or against. If you refuse to "entertain" any opinion thats different from yours then the discussion will never go anywhere. It's the equivalent of a 3 year old covering their ears and going 'lalalala" to ignore something they don't want to hear.

No, no, opinions matter in discussion, however, I am talking about ones from somebody who is so specialized in advocating not buffing rogue even when things we pointed out were so obvious and correctly flawed.

 

Maybe the 3 year old saying lalala is smarter than an adult who try to tell him/her that the sky is green specifically because he doesn't like blue. It's very understandable the toddler doesn't want to hear that when an adult is speaking only of his interest while ignoring the facts.

 

And yes, playing a certain class consistently makes your opinion bear more weight than somebody who doesn't when it comes to flaws. Of course you can have your opinion, it doesn't mean it's gonna be treated equally, because of the first point I am making here, and the fact that you are from the other side who is proven to continuously advocate to not buff us.

[vavavi 276]

3 hours ago, Toad Sage said:

No, no, opinions matter in discussion, however, I am talking about ones from somebody who is so specialized in advocating not buffing rogue even when things we pointed out were so obvious and correctly flawed.

 

Maybe the 3 year old saying lalala is smarter than an adult who try to tell him/her that the sky is green specifically because he doesn't like blue. It's very understandable the toddler doesn't want to hear that when an adult is speaking only of his interest while ignoring the facts.

 

And yes, playing a certain class consistently makes your opinion bear more weight than somebody who doesn't when it comes to flaws. Of course you can have your opinion, it doesn't mean it's gonna be treated equally, because of the first point I am making here, and the fact that you are from the other side who is proven to continuously advocate to not buff us.

Alot of those things you consider obvious are obvious only to you, or to people who agree with you, but they aren't obvious for everyone. You're almost refusing to even acknowledge that there are other view points. Someone disagreeing with you doesn't automatically mean they are saying something that is objectively wrong or that they meant it as malicious in some way. What matters is their reasoning behind what they are saying.

 

I could say the same thing but the opposite. Playing AGAINST a certain class makes your opinion on the class carry more weight. While everyones opinions are biased in one way or another, it stands to reason that the bias from playing against a class should be a lot less than having money/time invested into said class.

 

You seem to consider your opinions and views as stone cold facts, which you will belligirently defend based on some mistaken notion of people being out to purposefully ruin a side or a class. It's this victim mentality where you think people, in this case me, are out to get you by intentionally attempting to suppress your "correct" views. Then somehow you put this through an impressive mental gymnastics routine and flip it around to use as justification to be the one suppressing different views under the guise of defending the "oppressed" rogue class. You can't have a proper discussion when anything that goes against your opinions gets filtered through that mess.

 

These conversations in forums already probably matter very little. It's far more likely that most balancing decisions are done based on data gathered by the developers with maybe a little bit of vocal player feedback looped into the actual solutions of the problems. Trying to dig through that vocal player feedback will get extremely jarring extremely fast if all the topics about a subject are filled with this precedent of victimhood and disregard for views that differ from yours. Especially while they could instead be focused on respecting those differences in opinions, with the goal of driving healthy discussion.

 

Dropping such things in favor of constructed and logical conversation that's based on openness to different views would benefit your cause as well.

All you have to do is look at this topic; it's already bloated and very difficult to get anything meaningful out of. All the while it could have just been people sharing and discussing their views within that previously mentioned constructive and open framework.

Edited July 28, 2024 by vavavi

[vegeta 78]

On 7/25/2024 at 9:02 PM, Shax said:

Better heal

-Dmg reduction 

-Resist buff

Hope they listen . I have already stopped recruiting rogues in guild .

Also another suggestion remove dodge and give bd type of shield better . Dodge is useless now a days everyone has 40 45 % accuracy .

😺

Edited July 28, 2024 by vegeta

[omr 19]

1 hour ago, vegeta said:

On 7/25/2024 at 5:32 PM, Shax said:

Better heal

-Dmg reduction 

-Resist buff

Hope they listen . I have already stopped recruiting rogues in guild .

Also another suggestion remove dodge and give bd type of shield better . Dodge is useless now a days everyone has 40 45 % accuracy . 

not you  just no want add  rogue .

 

on every server no one want rogue more in guild because it's useless 

[Shax 98]

8 hours ago, vavavi said:

Alot of those things you consider obvious are obvious only to you, or to people who agree with you, but they aren't obvious for everyone.

They are in fact obvious to like 90% of people lol rogue has been a meme class for years now dont act like you just woke up from a coma

You can say "its only obvious to people who agree with him" that doesn't disapprove the fact rogue needs a buff since people who agree with him are like literally the whole warspear community except you?

I'm friends with alot of people and i keep tabs on community and saying "its just few ppl who agree with you" is just very not true.

If people were really neutral, they should be supporting this rather than kill these classes to the point no one wants to play them. You people would be the first to complain that the game is "dead" when you were part of the reason people quit due to not being able to enjoy their favorite class anymore

[Shax 98]

3 hours ago, vegeta said:

Hope they listen . I have already stopped recruiting rogues in guild .

Continuing to ignore rogue's deserved buffs is just further enlarging the gap between it and other classes each year, if people are using rogue to afk since they are not welcomed in guilds anymore, expect in the next years they will afk their whole account 

[vavavi 276]

1 hour ago, Shax said:

They are in fact obvious to like 90% of people lol rogue has been a meme class for years now dont act like you just woke up from a coma

You can say "its only obvious to people who agree with him" that doesn't disapprove the fact rogue needs a buff since people who agree with him are like literally the whole warspear community except you?

I'm friends with alot of people and i keep tabs on community and saying "its just few ppl who agree with you" is just very not true.

If people were really neutral, they should be supporting this rather than kill these classes to the point no one wants to play them. You people would be the first to complain that the game is "dead" when you were part of the reason people quit due to not being able to enjoy their favorite class anymore

You don't know how many ppl agree with it. I also know multiple people who agree with rogues being strong, both you and me saying that means nothing.

 

Whats with the "you people"? Exact same mentality i was talking about. People disagreeing about a class needing buffs or nerfs doesn't make them an enemy whos trying to ruin the class on purpose. Things like asking for dmg reduction when you just got your dodge skill that practically functions the same as dmg reduction is just ridiculous in my opinion. Doesn't mean im out to get you in some way.

[Shax 98]

1 hour ago, vavavi said:

You don't know how many ppl agree with it. I also know multiple people who agree with rogues being strong, both you and me saying that means nothing.

It does mean something when majority are saying the class sucks, by sucks meaning its extremely underperforming compared to any other class- this is not saying its average, its below that and has been for couple years now. 

People dont take what you say seriously vava when you speak about rogue cause it essentially doesn't take an ounce of effort to figure out most people are not happy with how this class performs. You aren't debating with randoms who play this class for 6 months, people like @omr have been playing rogue for 5 years+, they have the expertise and educated opinion, your opinion falls short against people who actually play the class consistently for years 

 

Its as if you're saying "bd is not broken" becs "i know of ppl who think bd is balanced" sure, you might find ppl who say that (doubt it) but you dont have to look alot to find out that majority believe bd isn't balanced. And this DOES mean something. Devs dont just base their analysis on test datas. community concerns and suggestions also are kept in mind. (Reason why this section exist)

 

Here its the same case with rogue, most people complain and believe it should receive buffs, even people who dont play the class, they want to see another class stop sucking so bad. i recommend you spend about 1-2 years atleast testing it in every aspect of the game, guarantee you will be one of these people preaching buffs for rogue and you have before so i dont even understand the need to argue. Even as a priest you are 8 times out of 10 winning against a rogue which you really shouldn't be able to as a healer class if we go by the notion that "dmg classes are to take out healers"

[vavavi 276]

29 minutes ago, Shax said:

It does mean something when majority are saying the class sucks, by sucks meaning its extremely underperforming compared to any other class- this is not saying its average, its below that and has been for couple years now. 

People dont take what you say seriously vava when you speak about rogue cause it essentially doesn't take an ounce of effort to figure out most people are not happy with how this class performs. You aren't debating with randoms who play this class for 6 months, people like @omr have been playing rogue for 5 years+, they have the expertise and educated opinion, your opinion falls short against people who actually play the class consistently for years 

 

Its as if you're saying "bd is not broken" becs "i know of ppl who think bd is balanced" sure, you might find ppl who say that (doubt it) but you dont have to look alot to find out that majority believe bd isn't balanced. And this DOES mean something. Devs dont just base their analysis on test datas. community concerns and suggestions also are kept in mind. (Reason why this section exist)

 

Here its the same case with rogue, most people complain and believe it should receive buffs, even people who dont play the class, they want to see another class stop sucking so bad. i recommend you spend about 1-2 years atleast testing it in every aspect of the game, guarantee you will be one of these people preaching buffs for rogue and you have before so i dont even understand the need to argue. Even as a priest you are 8 times out of 10 winning against a rogue which you really shouldn't be able to as a healer class if we go by the notion that "dmg classes are to take out healers"

You're still just assuming everyone agrees with it. It kinda seems like your unwillingness to hear other views is the reason for that.

 

Like i said, I haven't played rogue recently, that much is true, but i have played against them. When you try to discuss balance both of those points of view matter. You can't say the only thing that matters is if you're a rogue player or not. If that was true, you comparing rogue to other classes could be dismissed using that exact same logic.

 

The class doesn't suck, it's very strong in what it does. Comparing it to its counterpart seeker it does extremely well. It's true that both of those classes struggle in some aspects of the game, such as mass fights, but every class has weaknesses. You could even argue that when it comes to being an assassin type class, rogues are far better at that than seekers are.

 

Also when it comes to resist, rogues lack of resist skill is heavily compensated for by having access to 2 reaction relics. Those are very effective when used correctly. Rogues even get one on an AoE skill. In fact it's even a skill that doesn't suffer that much from getting resisted, since the ability to stealth after isn't taken away by said resist.

Edited July 28, 2024 by vavavi

[Toad Sage 103]

7 hours ago, vegeta said:

Hope they listen . I have already stopped recruiting rogues in guild .

Also another suggestion remove dodge and give bd type of shield better . Dodge is useless now a days everyone has 40 45 % accuracy .

😺

This is so funny. I remember last year there was a time in US where some elf guilds put something like "recruiting active players except seekers" in their descriptions. While at the same time, in MC, people also don't recruit rogues. But for entirely different reasons lol.

 

Guilds don't want seekers because they are too many. While rogues are not welcome because they are useless lol. And it's not like there are any new rogues to recruit anyway.

 

There was a thing in MC to say in world chat that if we didn't switch class and stay rogue, it would be our own fault to stay in disadvantaged situations. The whole situation we're in is a meme.

[SaltyCoffe 73]

8 minutes ago, Toad Sage said:

Guilds don't want seekers because they are too many. While rogues are not welcome because they are useless lol. And it's not like there are any new rogues to recruit anyway.

I don't know what goes in US , but in EU been years that top guilds don't recruit seekers because they are garbage class for gvg , not because " the guild has too many " 

 

Funny thing by the way how you compare rogue to seeker , basically saying "seek op" " rogue trash " , while it's not as you say .
Yes, i've said it too, many times that rogue need some different type of buffs, but I can't stand you guys glazing seeker strength like it's destroying every class with +5 items 

(  If this happens it just means that the enemy was a 40% resil with no buffs or an afk guy )

In the current state of the game  :  " good rogue > good seeker "  
The ONLY time a " seeker " in terms of class strength / utility ( in this case pvp scenario ) surpasses " rogue " class strength and utility is when the seeker has full end-game gear with greatness ( with whatever varion one can use ) and 20+ books 

 

So yes , while I agree with rogue buff , pls don't say things like " seeker has this much op , while rogue sucks fully " , I would love to have that dodge passive instead of our shit shield that tanks 1/4 of an enemy dmg skill ( barely )

[Toad Sage 103]

10 minutes ago, SaltyCoffe said:

I don't know what goes in US , but in EU been years that top guilds don't recruit seekers because they are garbage class for gvg , not because " the guild has too many " 

 

Funny thing by the way how you compare rogue to seeker , basically saying "seek op" " rogue trash " , while it's not as you say .
Yes, i've said it too, many times that rogue need some different type of buffs, but I can't stand you guys glazing seeker strength like it's destroying every class with +5 items 

(  If this happens it just means that the enemy was a 40% resil with no buffs or an afk guy )

In the current state of the game  :  " good rogue > good seeker "  
The ONLY time a " seeker " in terms of class strength / utility ( in this case pvp scenario ) surpasses " rogue " class strength and utility is when the seeker has full end-game gear with greatness ( with whatever varion one can use ) and 20+ books 

 

So yes , while I agree with rogue buff , pls don't say things like " seeker has this much op , while rogue sucks fully " , I would love to have that dodge passive instead of our shit shield that tanks 1/4 of an enemy dmg skill ( barely )

First of all, "seeker op" is not something I would ever say. We believe seeker is an assassin class done right. It works as intended.

 

And secondly, yes, in US, there are so many seekers. Pay us a visit and look at weekly ratings. Count how many seekers vs rogue there. There is no competition. Note that this situation is guaranteed if you check before today's reset. Otherwise weekly ratings will reset as well.

 

Rogue is absolutely a "trash" class right now, not because it can't do anything at all (which is not our argument) but compared to other classes that already work properly, we are trash in performance.

 

And thank you for agreeing with our buff! It's so refreshing to see that here. I still can't believe we still have to discuss why we need buff to some people.

Edited July 28, 2024 by Toad Sage

[SaltyCoffe 73]

3 minutes ago, Toad Sage said:

First of all, "seeker op" is not something I would ever say. We believe seeker is an assassin class done right. It works as intended.

 

And secondly, yes, in US, there are so many seekers. Pay us a visit and look at weekly ratings. Count how many seekers vs rogue there. There is no competition.

 

Rogue is absolutely a "trash" class right now, not because it can't do anything at all (which is not our argument) but compared to other classes that already work properly, we are trash in performance.

 

And thank you for agreeing with our buff! It's so refreshing to see that here. I still can't believe we still have to discuss why we need buff to some people.

Weekly rating takes into another argument such as the castle that the " class " spamming has and ecc.... , for example if the rogue has t5 castle , there's no way the rogue losing the rating top if he spams hard  with a good pt ( counting the fact that the " seeker pt " is gonna use 1000000 stam to cover the missing castle )
But yeah , that goes back to my saying of being different classes with different strengths , doubt they gonna do a huge change like : " op rogue pve now "

[Toad Sage 103]

5 minutes ago, SaltyCoffe said:

Weekly rating takes into another argument such as the castle that the " class " spamming has and ecc.... , for example if the rogue has t5 castle , there's no way the rogue losing the rating top if he spams hard  with a good pt ( counting the fact that the " seeker pt " is gonna use 1000000 stam to cover the missing castle )
But yeah , that goes back to my saying of being different classes with different strengths , doubt they gonna do a huge change like : " op rogue pve now "

It becomes another argument if we drag it somewhere else other than pointing out how many rogues vs seekers there are which was something I tried to give you some insights about.

 

The rogues you will see in weekly ratings in US are all the only real active rogues in US.

 

There is no argument about which class is better involved. It is an undisputable fact that at least there seeker is more liked and popular. Which was an answer to your initial "idk how it is in US..." And it should stop there.

[weakplay 16]

50 minutes ago, Toad Sage said:

Guilds don't want seekers because they are too many. While rogues are not welcome because they are useless lol. And it's not like there are any new rogues to recruit anyway.

Number has nothing to do with popularity, seekers are not welcomed by guild because of the limitations of gvg. The Chief is a good example, there are a lot of them, but because he can play a good role in gvg, it has been accepted by the guild.

Seekers are not welcome in the guild for the same reasons as rogues, not because of the number of seekers.

Edited July 28, 2024 by weakplay

[Shax 98]

41 minutes ago, vavavi said:

You're still just assuming everyone agrees with it. It kinda seems

Because majority does agree with it, hello?? lol 

Look around the game a little bit, check discord, play the damn class its not hard, you are either not paying attention on purpose or being biased

43 minutes ago, vavavi said:

You could even argue that when it comes to being an assassin type class, rogues are far better at that than seekers are.

You can say that but it's not true at all this is the most delusional statement, a seeker has the ability to dish out great damage at a top speed using daggers having about 48% resist (mind u 48% is without resist buffs lol) coming out of invisibility, AND slowing down enemy AND being able to run away faster. Im not saying this is broken it just fits exactly the assassin role. These type of abilities compliment eachothers. a rogue who can deal a little more dmg out of invisibility with 20-25% resist, and has 1 ranged stun that is pretty much the only decent thing. (Not mentioning the rest of abilities becs rogue and seekers are related in those).

This might seem not much of a difference but in game it is much more noticeable to see how rogue struggle having skills that do not compliment eachothers nor does it scream assassin class like seeker does. Rogue's skills and gameplay is awkward in the way that the class is figuring out what it wants to be and it fails.

 

If we discuss the role of an assassin class and agree that they are meant to kill healers most of the time. Seekers abilities are much more built for that. Movement slow, having enough resistance and able to run away fast and fast auto attack is typically what u want against a healer. Nowadays as a rogue u cant even have good attack speed in arena because using daggers- will result in so little damage any healer can outheal that dmg input + having close to 0 cd from Extermination 

[Gladiator 1207]

 

9 minutes ago, weakplay said:

Number has nothing to do with popularity, seekers are not welcomed by guild because of the limitations of gvg. The Chief is a good example, there are a lot of them, but because he can play a good role in gvg, it has been accepted by the guild.

Seekers are not welcome in the guild for the same reasons as rogues, not because of the number of seekers.

Seekers can still be very valuable in certain GvGs due to their movement speed utility combined with invisibility. It happens that Chieftains have that utility instead of Rogues, which makes Chieftains extra good in GvGs while leaving Rogues rather lacking in that department. Perhaps MCs could ask devs to give Rogues movement speed instead of Chieftains to balance out their roles in GvGs. 

Edited July 28, 2024 by Gladiator

[Toad Sage 103]

5 minutes ago, weakplay said:

Number has nothing to do with popularity, seekers are not welcomed by guild because of the limitations of gvg. The Chief is a good example, there are a lot of them, but because he can play a good role in gvg, it has been accepted by the guild.

It doesn't negate the fact that they had more seekers than they needed, does it?

 

It was basically saying "nope, we already have enough seekers, you are too many, play other class!" Which was exactly what happened and what I tried to say. I don't try to deny certain limitations in GvG or whatever other reasons. The point is, whatever seekers they already have was enough while there are more seekers than they need.

 

While on MC, there aren't enough rogue to reject for their uselessness.

[Shax 98]

5 minutes ago, Gladiator said:

Seekers can still be very valuable in certain GvGs due to their movement speed utility combined with invisibility. It happens that Chieftains have that utility instead of Rogues, which makes Chieftains extra good in GvGs while leaving Rogues rather lacking in that department.

This exactly, that movement speed is valuable all around in every scenario for seeker so there's always gonna be some uses for seekers, but compared to rogue it basically is trying to be an assassin without having complimentary skills that prove that identity so it never lives up to being one

Edited July 28, 2024 by Shax

[weakplay 16]

7 minutes ago, Toad Sage said:

It doesn't negate the fact that they had more seekers than they needed, does it?

 

So you think there are more seekers because seekers are better than thugs?
If you are referring to the pve aspect, yes, Seeker pve is much better than rogue. The excellent experience of pve is the main reason why the number of seekers is so high, and the chief is the same reason.But, pve who is strong and weak, who cares?
But if you are referring to the pvp aspect, no, currently seeker pvp is not better than rogue.

Edited July 28, 2024 by weakplay

[Shax 98]

Just for the record for any seekers reading this, this is not a discussion about seeker being broken, or seeker vs rogue, in fact i believe seeker is doing well. And doesn't deserve a nerf, The only reason seeker is mentioned here is for example purposes of how an assassin class should be like. Because rogue also is an assassin type class yet its abilities dont support that identity