Harads shield ponderations

[Vinagre 72]

As sugested  11.2. Preview. Part I, 

 

•  Harad's Shield
• Now, instead of increasing physical strength, the effect gives a bonus to the character's physical and magical defense in the amount of 4 \ 5 \ 6 \ 7 \ 8% for every 20% of the missing shield strength from the maximum.

Why not give resist parameter, instead of defense? Explorer is not a tank, he cant stack parry/block/dodge, like other melees can

Switching from the dmg to a Defense % (that is pretty much useless in many situations) is disappointing... 
Seekers are supposed to be a light armor dps who can actually move in the battlefield, not someone who will be controlled half of the time and maybe survive few more milliseconds because he have a defense bonus shield :D 

 

Edited December 15, 2022 by Vinagre

[Vinagre 72]

Take the chief for instance, he can do more explosive damage, have a true reduction of damage, and also a full 100% resist... do not forget he is the only one who can move with 50% speed...

[Raislin 337]

I probably would have preferred something else besides defense but there's some potential there with combination of the new talent and some spring books. I'll wait until the actual update to pass on judgment to it.

[SaltyCoffe 67]

17 minutes ago, Raislin said:

I probably would have preferred something else besides defense but there's some potential there with combination of the new talent and some spring books. I'll wait until the actual update to pass on judgment to it.

How is this thing working now?  

Is it like 40% def with full shield gone ?

So perma druid's skin ?

[Vinagre 72]

4 hours ago, Raislin said:

I probably would have preferred something else besides defense but there's some potential there with combination of the new talent and some spring books. I'll wait until the actual update to pass on judgment to it.

Potential? do you realize that defense works with diminishing returns? 
that means even if you get a hudge deff bonus, it wont effect significantly the damage reductio;(-1,1% dmg = 10 Milliseconds of survivability? = useless?)

4 hours ago, SaltyCoffe said:

How is this thing working now?  

Is it like 40% def with full shield gone ?

So perma druid's skin ?

not perma, since it is a buff and it will runoff, plus will you burn 4 points to ''gain defense'' on a dps class? GL on that...

Edited December 15, 2022 by Vinagre

[SaltyCoffe 67]

24 minutes ago, Vinagre said:

Potential? do you realize that defense works with diminishing returns? 
that means even if you get a hudge deff bonus, it wont effect significantly the damage reductio;(-1,1% dmg = 10 Milliseconds of survivability? = useless?)

not perma, since it is a buff and it will runoff, plus will you burn 4 points to ''gain defense'' on a dps class? GL on that...

I mean if the shield doesn't get 1 tapped it's not "perma" but after 2/3 secs u can re-activate it 

Still yeah I would have preferred dmg buff, but if they want to destroy seek what can we do xD

 

[Vinagre 72]

5 minutes ago, SaltyCoffe said:

I mean if the shield doesn't get 1 tapped it's not "perma" but after 2/3 secs u can re-activate it 

Still yeah I would have preferred dmg buff, but if they want to destroy seek what can we do xD

 

yes, remove dmg, and instead of just removing it, give something that has no use at all...

[Fynn 129]

It's literally just a shield without more

 

Def buff, is technically nothing, as useful as a healer with vampirism

 

I would have preferred something else,

Rogues think that dodge svcks, ok.. 

Then rework it, and make it a dodge/parry themed skill also, idk

Seeker is the only one without something like that,  Bladedancers doesn't use parry skill bcz that resist skill, so, they don't need it, give it to seekers xd

[Vinagre 72]

1 hour ago, Mary seto said:

It's literally just a shield without more

 

Def buff, is technically nothing, as useful as a healer with vampirism

 

I would have preferred something else,

Rogues think that dodge svcks, ok.. 

Then rework it, and make it a dodge/parry themed skill also, idk

Seeker is the only one without something like that,  Bladedancers doesn't use parry skill bcz that resist skill, so, they don't need it, give it to seekers xd

take notes : Rogues use dodge to ''resist and move around'', blade dancer use resist skill, barbarian use resist skill, chief use resist skill, So seeker is the only one melee dps who cant use a 100% resist skill. What is the solution? change that ''aberration'' from defense bonus to resist bonus with a short time? 

[Vinagre 72]

if you want to increase the survivability of the seeker, give some damage reduction ( just like rugged hide) after the bubble pops out, not bonus defense that wont metters at all cus of diminishing returns 

[Ahmed Didar 118]

A fitting nerf for their absurd damage.

[Vinagre 72]

22 minutes ago, Ahmed Didar said:

A fitting nerf for their absurd damage.

Fitting nerf? hm... do you realize that that cant even be called a nerf? since it change the mechanics? 
Also it changes from something useful to something useless.. 

@Holmes is this the correct place to be discussing since im not allowed on the test server?

[Laevateinn 68]

21 hours ago, Vinagre said:

Rogues use dodge to ''resist and move around''

 

21 hours ago, Vinagre said:

So seeker is the only one melee dps who cant use a 100% resist skill.

Stun is cannot resist with dodge.  

 

And I think the defensive buff is pretty good. Assuming seeker don't get any more damage from this skill. 

On 12/15/2022 at 6:15 PM, Raislin said:

I probably would have preferred something else besides defense but there's some potential there with combination of the new talent and some spring books. I'll wait until the actual update to pass on judgment to it.

I was thinking about this, too

Edited December 16, 2022 by Laevateinn

[Vinagre 72]

4 minutes ago, Laevateinn said:

Dodge cannot resist stun. 

Wont ''resist'' but actually works like a resist when the other player misses his attacks or skills. ( just like block/parry, 3 of the stats seekers cant stack to use as defense...)

 

4 minutes ago, Laevateinn said:

And I think the defensive buff is pretty good.

based on what? do you understand that if you have like 7k defense, and with that bonus it goes for lets say 11k defense, it will only change like 5 % dmg reduction? its useless...

Edited December 16, 2022 by Vinagre

[SaltyCoffe 67]

3 minutes ago, Laevateinn said:

And I think the defensive buff is pretty good. Assuming seeker don't get any more damage from this skill. 

I think at this point of the game more def doesn't really matter, a dmg resistance like the talent or a resist % would have been better in the end

( No more dmg but better defensive skill )

[Vinagre 72]

Just now, SaltyCoffe said:

I think at this point of the game more def doesn't really matter, a dmg resistance like the talent or a resist % would have been better in the end

( No more dmg but better defensive skill )

yes diminishing returns makes defense useless....

[Laevateinn 68]

Just now, Vinagre said:

Wont ''resist'' but actually works like a resist when the other player misses his attacks or skills.

So isn't seeker has the same thing? Rather, if your hands are slow because seeker is faster, you can miss it even if you see seeker with stealth

[Vinagre 72]

1 minute ago, Laevateinn said:

So isn't seeker has the same thing? Rather, if your hands are slow because seeker is faster, you can miss it even if you see seeker with stealth

the rogue can dodge, seeker cant really, so when you pick a seeker as a target just fully control him till he is dead. In the other hand you can target a rogue and miss your next 3 controls and be dead...

[Ahmed Didar 118]

2 hours ago, Vinagre said:

Fitting nerf? hm... do you realize that that cant even be called a nerf? since it change the mechanics? 
Also it changes from something useful to something useless.. 

@Holmes is this the correct place to be discussing since im not allowed on the test server?

Damage increase is gone, that's all I care about.

[Raislin 337]

1 hour ago, Ahmed Didar said:

Damage increase is gone, that's all I care about.

You do realize that barely anything has changed. Shield buffs were rare in pve if you ran in a "proper" party, meaning you had a tank pulling agro. And on raid bosses there's like a few places where youd get it occasionally. You will still die to Seekers in pvp as well since now they can just tp pot and run away to stealth and wait out any chief resist skills and kill you with 100% stuns. At least since you talk so similar to cryai I don't really expect anything better from your chief than her rogue either... All im going to say is goodluck and hope you get mad when you die to pleb seekers again. 

[Ahmed Didar 118]

1 hour ago, Raislin said:

You do realize that barely anything has changed. Shield buffs were rare in pve if you ran in a "proper" party, meaning you had a tank pulling agro. And on raid bosses there's like a few places where youd get it occasionally. You will still die to Seekers in pvp as well since now they can just tp pot and run away to stealth and wait out any chief resist skills and kill you with 100% stuns. At least since you talk so similar to cryai I don't really expect anything better from your chief than her rogue either... All im going to say is goodluck and hope you get mad when you die to pleb seekers again. 

that's the thing, having full greatness, how do i die to seekers, hmmm for some plebs, quite strong

[Vinagre 72]

this is not supposed to be a x1 class discussion, more like a true arena / gvg scenarios 

[Alfiansyah Muhammad 3]

Making the shield explode to deal aoe damage and give debuff for 1.5 sec, explosion damage increases as many enemies hit the shiled.

 

Make seekers to become a walking bomb 

 

 

[Vinagre 72]

1 hour ago, Alfiansyah Muhammad said:

Making the shield explode to deal aoe damage and give debuff for 1.5 sec, explosion damage increases as many enemies hit the shiled.

 

Make seekers to become a walking bomb 

 

 

nice concept, 

[Fynn 129]

Ok dmg buff gone, but add anything else dont? Something a little more useful than buff defense, if it is too much to ask

Or rework it, I insist... in a dodge/parry themed skill or maybe a dmg reduction % like rugged hide. 

Literally there are thousands of ideas, the problem is that not being the Russian forum, we are not so relevant, and if they decide to take an idea, is given to the wrong character 😂 There are skills that would work very well in other characters than in the owner himself.

Anyway...... 

 

I'm fine with removing the dmg buff, but come on... Defense?, literally every 2k defense, feels like it only reduces 1% even less,  It is also like a skill that was made for tanks (they would not even use it even if they were allowed xd) 

8 hours ago, Alfiansyah Muhammad said:

Making the shield explode to deal aoe damage and give debuff for 1.5 sec, explosion damage increases as many enemies hit the shiled.

 

Make seekers to become a walking bomb /cdn-cgi/mirage/c2042a369d7c25be76785c1eaf91ab17c3c7002da49a9859aa614d3d2408917e/1280/https://forum.warspear-online.com/uploads/emoticons/happy01.gif

 

 

An example of good ideas

 

15 hours ago, Ahmed Didar said:

A fitting nerf for their absurd damage.

I always see you and kyrai, complaining about everything the difference is that at least kyrai contributes something, few times but it does. 

From what I have seen that you comment, you imply that you play chieftain, i also plays chieftain, but I have never see you giving ideas, more than just commenting disagreements in topics "elfs", tell me, are you in automatic mode waiting for some elf to comment? 

No desire to fight, I know you can comment on whatever you want, I just say

 

15 hours ago, Vinagre said:

the rogue can dodge, seeker cant really, so when you pick a seeker as a target just fully control him till he is dead. In the other hand you can target a rogue and miss your next 3 controls and be dead...

Not to mention, the seeker would receive a burst of damage easily, at least the dodge is useful to avoid great damage, a dodged attack means 0 damage easily, without sacrificing anything, instead the seeker sacrifices the shield, to even withstand some damage and be exposed after destroyed, of course, that if you manage to activate it under control skills.  That is a point in favor of the dodge, even if it is with a chance it is better than something that will only keep you a few seconds alive,  They can even sometimes dodge stun attacks, even better, works as second-hand resi. 😂

I guess rogues don't like dodge for the fact that it occupies important spaces for vampire runes(? 

[Ahmed Didar 118]

5 hours ago, Mary seto said:

I always see you and kyrai, complaining about everything the difference is that at least kyrai contributes something, few times but it does. 

From what I have seen that you comment, you imply that you play chieftain, i also plays chieftain, but I have never see you giving ideas, more than just commenting disagreements in topics "elfs", tell me, are you in automatic mode waiting for some elf to comment? 

No desire to fight, I know you can comment on whatever you want, I just say

 

 

I did plenty of suggestion game mechanics, additions, I have been on this forums for years. Tell how many sentinels ask for nerf on legion classes? not many, I assume they don't need to because we can see which side is superior. Trust me, I will keep on disagreeing on what I see absurd. Meanwhile, the reason I am in seeker section most of the time, is because they are the best dps class in this entire game. And I will do my best to bring it to fair terms. Seeker was here for a long time and chieftain a year or so, where do you want me to keep discussing on about? I have don't much to say to chieftain because it still is somewhat new class and has room to be something more.

Regardless of your assumptions, I heard seeker is performing well with it's defense buff in beta test.

[Laevateinn 68]

9 hours ago, Dr Strange said:

 Harad's Shield

• The bonus to physical and magical protection has been replaced with a reduction in all incoming damage to the character by 2 \ 2.5 \ 3 \ 4 \ 5% for 6 \ 7 \ 8 \ 10 \ 12 sec. for every 20% of damage absorbed from the shield's maximum durability.

Defense buff has been replaced by the damage reduction buff. 

[TheCaster 361]

4 hours ago, Laevateinn said:

Defense buff has been replaced by the damage reduction buff. 

I'm not very familiar with seekers but don't they have a 55% dmg reduction permanent talent? So combined with this talent (25%) , seekers will have 80% incoming damage reduction? 

[Raislin 337]

1 hour ago, TheCaster said:

I'm not very familiar with seekers but don't they have a 55% dmg reduction permanent talent? So combined with this talent (25%) , seekers will have 80% incoming damage reduction? 

Guess so. Might be finally worth using orci scrolls or the chinese new year scrolls for the memes.

[TheCaster 361]

3 minutes ago, Raislin said:

Guess so. Might be finally worth using orci scrolls or the chinese new year scrolls for the memes.

lol, that's just broken af now. Not even tanks can do this. Who is coming up with this stuff?

[Raislin 337]

17 minutes ago, TheCaster said:

lol, that's just broken af now. Not even tanks can do this. Who is coming up with this stuff?

Well you do need to be =< 3k hp to get there. Barbs had it for free with stone skin and they were 10k+ hp. Rogues, Rangers and Hunters will still do anywhere from 400-700 damage per hit on full greatness Seekers so not like you will be unkillable or anything. 

Edited December 18, 2022 by Raislin

[Laevateinn 68]

2 hours ago, TheCaster said:

I'm not very familiar with seekers but don't they have a 55% dmg reduction permanent talent? So combined with this talent (25%) , seekers will have 80% incoming damage reduction? 

Imagine new shield with relic which 40% boost skill effect when character has 30% hp when use skill.

[TheCaster 361]

1 minute ago, Laevateinn said:

Imagine new shield with relic which 40% boost skill effect when character has 30% hp when use skill./cdn-cgi/mirage/b1dce2c9c41acd5d1ba95acee1252413ca89b7b1c5c8fdcadfea59bd58c0cd30/1280/https://forum.warspear-online.com/uploads/emoticons/piggy2.png

Wait, seeker is always at 30% hp cause of talent lol. So that's (25% + 40% of that) = 35%. Plus 55% from talent.

 

So a seeker will have 90% dmg reduction? 

[Laevateinn 68]

2 minutes ago, TheCaster said:

Wait, seeker is always at 30% hp cause of talent lol. So that's (25% + 40% of that) = 35%. Plus 55% from talent.

 

So a seeker will have 90% dmg reduction? 

Of course, damage reduction by talent won't be the same as the figures because there's a hp penalty, but I'm still a little scared.

[SaltyCoffe 67]

37 minutes ago, Laevateinn said:

Of course, damage reduction by talent won't be the same as the figures because there's a hp penalty, but I'm still a little scared.

Yeah as a seeker myself this is going to be strange and needs further testing in test-server

Instead of normal def yeah this is better but idk if it's going to be  OP or just okay

[Ahmed Didar 118]

7 hours ago, SaltyCoffe said:

Yeah as a seeker myself this is going to be strange and needs further testing in test-server

Instead of normal def yeah this is better but idk if it's going to be  OP or just okay

Ever wondered why I kept screaming best DPS in game, guess what? best DPS now go tank raid bosses alone.

[Vinagre 72]

Harad's Shield

• The bonus to physical and magical protection has been replaced with a reduction in all incoming damage to the character by 2 \ 2.5 \ 3 \ 4 \ 5% for 6 \ 7 \ 8 \ 10 \ 12 sec. for every 20% of damage absorbed from the shield's maximum durability.

so this means we get a reduction while the shield is up, or we get a remaining damage reduction even after the whole shield is drained? 
if its the first option, thats a big L for seekers, wont work well since we had a sinergy with the dmg bonus that remained on that. If its the second option, might work well, maybe...

 

[Raislin 337]

3 hours ago, Vinagre said:

Harad's Shield

• The bonus to physical and magical protection has been replaced with a reduction in all incoming damage to the character by 2 \ 2.5 \ 3 \ 4 \ 5% for 6 \ 7 \ 8 \ 10 \ 12 sec. for every 20% of damage absorbed from the shield's maximum durability.

so this means we get a reduction while the shield is up, or we get a remaining damage reduction even after the whole shield is drained? 
if its the first option, thats a big L for seekers, wont work well since we had a sinergy with the dmg bonus that remained on that. If its the second option, might work well, maybe...

 

It works like the old shield pretty much, you just get damage reduction as the buff instead.