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Balancing that chief needs (chief player talks)


Bromancé
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Hi, I've been playing chief since release and faced every rework. However I got little disappointed of few skills rework (I think frenzy got too many % decreased in past, while some skills, such as eagle is way too buffed.)

 

Eagle's eye     (needs nerf)

 

- Eagle's eye is considered as "buffing skill" even tho it deals "dmg" (so it shouldn't be buffing skill at all). This is bad because if this person uses t5 book, he is able to keep 2x eagle's eye permanent, even almost 3x with high skill cool down. This skill should be negative. 

 

Support of the pack    (needs nerf) 

 

-Resist skill with talent is too long with t5 book once again, with t5 orcinus book + resist talent + resist skill the resist buff is way too long, it can be permanent with mixing cd greatness set. Was there class that was meant to have resist buff 24/7? I remember barb's 12sec resist buff got nerfed on old times, I'd really question the logic if this wouldn't get nerf, since classes with higher cd of resist skill got nerfed already.

 

Frenzy (needs few percent buff imo)

 

Frenzy, frenzy... It deals somewhat good dmg, but there's for some people that problem, is this skill even useful or is it better just do autoatks, I understand it was way high at the start, was it 55%? But currently it's way too small, not even need to use.

 

Wolf's aracirity (needs also some kind of buff or rework)

 

it's pretty same, it was too high in past but now it's way low as dmg.

 

Thanks for listening, also seekers, check yourself with that high dmg talent before reply here🤨

 

 

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14 hours ago, mari setogaya said:

Don't assume that the t5 book is something everyone has. 

Also, do not ask for fixes based on a book, it is not even part of the character

 

 

I don't assume, it's proven fact already, "do not ask fixes based on book" goes to same category as distortion book earlier I guess?😁

16 hours ago, Wongs said:

so as ur mean ,we should nerf chief or t5book?

Chief itself is fine, but the skill types and buffing attributes is wrong type, it would be simply fixed if these won't be affected by t5 books, I don't think gm plan was to have character with resist running 24/7 tbh

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2 hours ago, Wongs said:

but if u want to keep full time resis ,u must use talent of resis ,it gives u 4s more resis ,and -10% every 2s ,so u cant get good resis 24/7

Yes I understand this point. but as I remind, mages and barbarians got nerf from having 12 sec resist with skill of ~30s cd, while chiefs having resist skill on 24/7. I don't mean chiefs without t5 books, they're fine. But t5 book makes that resist skill too strong, I can say already that chief is most class that has used orcinus book. Here's the math:

 

 

With 60% cd, chief has about 17.5 sec cool down at resist skill, that lasts 6sec. This is totally fine. Then let's add 4 sec from talent, it's 6s + 90% resist for 2s + 80% resist for 2s, still I guess somehow acceptable. But let's add magic extension book from Orcinus.

 

Same as before, but 6s become 9s, 90% 2s become 3s, 80% 2s become 3, so total 9s + 3s + 3s, all is needed to use 15% cd pot and we have chief with 24/7 resist skill on, so, let's say if chief uses resist skill on war, and nobody hits him, he has chance to stun him 10% for 3s and 20% for 3s, no chance to stun for 9s. If someone (and someone will) try stun him on war, he gain extra sec. from resisting stun, let's say on irselnort war, gvg, anything, who wouldn't try to stun enemy? And if stun on that 80% or 90% resist fails, he gets extra second for resist as well, so practically it's nearly impossible

 

 

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On 11/20/2022 at 4:38 PM, Bromancé said:

Yes I understand this point. but as I remind, mages and barbarians got nerf from having 12 sec resist with skill of ~30s cd, while chiefs having resist skill on 24/7. I don't mean chiefs without t5 books, they're fine. But t5 book makes that resist skill too strong, I can say already that chief is most class that has used orcinus book. Here's the math:

 

 

With 60% cd, chief has about 17.5 sec cool down at resist skill, that lasts 6sec. This is totally fine. Then let's add 4 sec from talent, it's 6s + 90% resist for 2s + 80% resist for 2s, still I guess somehow acceptable. But let's add magic extension book from Orcinus.

 

Same as before, but 6s become 9s, 90% 2s become 3s, 80% 2s become 3, so total 9s + 3s + 3s, all is needed to use 15% cd pot and we have chief with 24/7 resist skill on, so, let's say if chief uses resist skill on war, and nobody hits him, he has chance to stun him 10% for 3s and 20% for 3s, no chance to stun for 9s. If someone (and someone will) try stun him on war, he gain extra sec. from resisting stun, let's say on irselnort war, gvg, anything, who wouldn't try to stun enemy? And if stun on that 80% or 90% resist fails, he gets extra second for resist as well, so practically it's nearly impossible

 

 

oh, now who's side are you on, i am confused

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On 12/2/2022 at 10:36 PM, Daniel Paulo said:

you are asking for a nerf in the chief's magic and PvP/GvG skills, considering that in these parameters the mage is already much superior to the class

 

Here is in the video I'm talking about, I had luck to my friend for send this.

As you can see, chief is not receiving any stuns that would buff chieftain for resist longer and still it's on 24/7, chief is not even using skill cool down-potion for that. And I would like to hear opinion from @Nolan@LeeLoo, is chief meant to have permament resist, or can you make resist skills to negative effect for people to not abuse such skills? If chief is able to have resist buff 24/7 with no cd pot, imagine with 15% cd pot. I think this is too powerful, also, chieftain can use eagle eye with magic extension book, and magic extension should be "negative" type of skill, since it deals damage. Isn't every skill that deals dmg considered as negative?

 

 

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On 11/20/2022 at 1:26 AM, Bromancé said:

I don't think gm plan was to have character with resist running 24/7 tbh

well gm had a plan to make a book which people will abuse regardless of which class they are into making the game broken. It isn't the chief. I don't find your arguments valid because you basing the whole class on an individual who is using the most broken book in the game. my man, blame the book not the class.

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20 hours ago, Bromancé said:

 

Here is in the video I'm talking about, I had luck to my friend for send this.

As you can see, chief is not receiving any stuns that would buff chieftain for resist longer and still it's on 24/7, chief is not even using skill cool down-potion for that. And I would like to hear opinion from @Nolan@LeeLoo, is chief meant to have permament resist, or can you make resist skills to negative effect for people to not abuse such skills? If chief is able to have resist buff 24/7 with no cd pot, imagine with 15% cd pot. I think this is too powerful, also, chieftain can use eagle eye with magic extension book, and magic extension should be "negative" type of skill, since it deals damage. Isn't every skill that deals dmg considered as negative?

 

 

this is a joke? a chief with the resist book and who probably has a lot of GZ accessories, being hit by a barbarian, by a barbarian... do you think this little video is a parameter to nerf a meta class?

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Let's be real the problem here isn't permanent resist skill. It's the fact that chief has high damage and they wont die with permanent Rugged hide or at least close to it on them. People out here are basically trying to nerf the least problematic part of the class just because they are also abusing the class but they can't just leave it as it is because the only orci books in the server are in an enemy guild lol. :rofl:

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On 12/10/2022 at 3:43 PM, Ahmed Didar said:

well gm had a plan to make a book which people will abuse regardless of which class they are into making the game broken. It isn't the chief. I don't find your arguments valid because you basing the whole class on an individual who is using the most broken book in the game. my man, blame the book not the class.

I still stay on my point, every class works fine with orcinus book, outcluding chief. Book is not the problem if it works correct on every other class, there's my point which makes it valid. It would be same as if orcinus book would buff stun abilities (negative) for everyone since resist is counterpart for stun, as I would say. 

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21 hours ago, Raislin said:

Let's be real the problem here isn't permanent resist skill. It's the fact that chief has high damage and they wont die with permanent Rugged hide or at least close to it on them. People out here are basically trying to nerf the least problematic part of the class just because they are also abusing the class but they can't just leave it as it is because the only orci books in the server are in an enemy guild lol. :rofl:

 Oh, I almost forgot who clown said the following about OCTO book, even tho they who had octo books was his own guild, remind me who was that? And same person commented distortion book was fair even while 1 player tanked 20-30 players alone? Well played from you as always, that's why you're my favorite.Screenshot_20221118_195247_com.android.chrome.thumb.jpg.a0be5b31a5eace355b1a996dd44b3586.jpg About abusing classes, it's fun to hear from you since your own team is always seeking to make advantages of such things (even now using seekers only at dmg pt until snow nerf, surprise) so I'll leave that table for you.

 

Back to point (if the clown allows me) chief's damage isn't problem to any classes from frenzy who has enough resilience and hp, it got nerfed from last update.(from 55% to 45%?). Warlock could on normal case use stone while chief would do resist until it would run out. Druid would tank it until resist would run out. Mage has  shield buff which allows to tank/run until resist is gone, but the case is that resist isn't gone, it stays there even with no buffs as on the video. 

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23 hours ago, Mary seto said:

SO, basically nerf all chieftains, Because of a few they are broken

 

 

No, this wouldn't interrupt any other chieftains if the resist type is changed to "negative" as it should (rather than being positive), besides eagle eye, which also should be "negative" since it is dealing damage. It doesn't interrupt anyone but same time makes it fair to every class.

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On 12/10/2022 at 6:32 PM, Daniel Paulo said:

this is a joke? a chief with the resist book and who probably has a lot of GZ accessories, being hit by a barbarian, by a barbarian... do you think this little video is a parameter to nerf a meta class?

I kind of think it is so, since that barbarian has 15 books and that chief just 1, I somehow understood it if chief kept resist 24/7 on with buffs, but he do it WITHOUT buffs, that's the whole point. Barbarian hit doesn't matter (although good you focused on useless points in video) but the chief having resist buff 24/7 doesnt seem legit for me,thanks.

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4 hours ago, Bromancé said:

 Oh, I almost forgot who clown said the following about OCTO book, even tho they who had octo books was his own guild, remind me who was that? And same person commented distortion book was fair even while 1 player tanked 20-30 players alone? Well played from you as always, that's why you're my favorite.Screenshot_20221118_195247_com.android.chrome.thumb.jpg.a0be5b31a5eace355b1a996dd44b3586.jpg About abusing classes, it's fun to hear from you since your own team is always seeking to make advantages of such things (even now using seekers only at dmg pt until snow nerf, surprise) so I'll leave that table for you.

 

Back to point (if the clown allows me) chief's damage isn't problem to any classes from frenzy who has enough resilience and hp, it got nerfed from last update.(from 55% to 45%?). Warlock could on normal case use stone while chief would do resist until it would run out. Druid would tank it until resist would run out. Mage has  shield buff which allows to tank/run until resist is gone, but the case is that resist isn't gone, it stays there even with no buffs as on the video. 

There's plenty of ways to cc players who have distort without making it trigger and making them easy to kill. Such as silences, Fear effects, lightning blast and whatever else you can think of. Stunning is something you can decide not to do unless you have it enchanted in your gear when it will pop up randomly once in a while. The only reason some people could tank "20-30" people was because of halloween event giving out stun buffs to everyone so there was no way to avoid stunning someone or people were being dumb.

 

Do also remember that I wasn't the one complaining about any particular class while saying that. You are the one crying over 2 people in a server having slightly better chief than you.

 

Don't think I would need to remind you that much more people in Legion of Emerald at the time had the book simply because it was dropping over there constantly while Sentinels didn't have any drop for a few weeks. Of course things might have changed since then but objectively things would have been better for the side I wasn't playing on that actively.

 

I still standby it being fair and having clear counterplay with which you can avoid the book entirely while same can't really be said for either sea book. Not that I mind them particularly. It's not like the 2 chiefs with orci book are unkillable either.

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5 hours ago, Bromancé said:

I still stay on my point, every class works fine with orcinus book, outcluding chief. Book is not the problem if it works correct on every other class, there's my point which makes it valid. It would be same as if orcinus book would buff stun abilities (negative) for everyone since resist is counterpart for stun, as I would say. 

mate reaching 70%+ resist nowadays is no big deal

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13 hours ago, Ahmed Didar said:

mate reaching 70%+ resist nowadays is no big deal

oh, how you gonna reach it? Let me guess, you would use resist pot, 5lv castle scroll, and have somehow 15% resist by yourself with maybe book, guild skills and enchant on amulet? still not 70% resist, I would lose my pvp items and use resist items for reach 70%. But what would the chief use, if he already have 100% resist? Exactly, he can use full dmg buffs(card with 10% dmg, stronger def scrolls pots, etc) meanwhile others have to somehow reach even close to 60%.

 

14 hours ago, Raislin said:

There's plenty of ways to cc players who have distort without making it trigger and making them easy to kill. Such as silences, Fear effects, lightning blast and whatever else you can think of. Stunning is something you can decide not to do unless you have it enchanted in your gear when it will pop up randomly once in a while. The only reason some people could tank "20-30" people was because of halloween event giving out stun buffs to everyone so there was no way to avoid stunning someone or people were being dumb.

 

and what pretended people by stunning themselves on low lvl characters or allies? Nothing, even if there was none of them, even at 1v1 situation would've had to choose either attack versus class who has maxed dmg skills setup on pvp since he didn't need any protection, or stun him for him to get more hp, simply we knew that nerf was coming, maybe you didn't complain but your close guild member complained on next post, which makes me think of it, but no need go back that. 

 

14 hours ago, Raislin said:

 still standby it being fair and having clear counterplay with which you can avoid the book entirely while same can't really be said for either sea book. Not that I mind them particularly. It's not like the 2 chiefs with orci book are unkillable either.

 

They not completely unkillable at arena situations (but almost, feel free to try without that you pay to them), but giving way too control on wars/massive fights. and you're wrong if you think the damage/rugged is problem, chief doesn't one-combo any class just with frenzy, it's combo of thrashing + frenzy + wolf skill. You said even earlier rugged is way too strong, and I say they can freely recycle rugged also, because nobody able to stun them to stop the cycle behind the resist. 

 

 

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On 12/11/2022 at 3:13 PM, Bromancé said:

I kind of think it is so, since that barbarian has 15 books and that chief just 1, I somehow understood it if chief kept resist 24/7 on with buffs, but he do it WITHOUT buffs, that's the whole point. Barbarian hit doesn't matter (although good you focused on useless points in video) but the chief having resist buff 24/7 doesnt seem legit for me,thanks.

it's not the chief who is strong, despite the book resist + the talent to resist gives a high resistance rate, and even then the paladin and templar manage to stun him. the barbarian who is weak, because a strong ranger or mage would be able to kill this chief only in the damage of his skills, on my server there are also chiefs like that.

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Just nerf the book, no book should give characters perma resistance or such insane buffs, its still passive book, not expert skill. percent of buff is too high. 

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On 11/17/2022 at 6:47 PM, Bromancé said:

- Eagle's eye is considered as "buffing skill" even tho it deals "dmg" (so it shouldn't be buffing skill at all). This is bad because if this person uses t5 book, he is able to keep 2x eagle's eye permanent, even almost 3x with high skill cool down. This skill should be negative. 

Eagle eye has a maximum of x2 effects and to be able to have x2 effects permanently, you need about 100% CD even with orcinus book if you do the math. With a mix of lv 30/32 greatness armors with CD enchants, a belt that has CD, maxed talents and guild bonus, you still only get up to around 70%. To be able to have x2 permanently on, or x2 even for a small duration, you would need to have a shaman buffing you with their CD skill, or use CD pot and scroll (pot 15%, scroll 10% max).

 

On 11/20/2022 at 12:38 PM, Bromancé said:

Same as before, but 6s become 9s, 90% 2s become 3s, 80% 2s become 3, so total 9s + 3s + 3s, all is needed to use 15% cd pot and we have chief with 24/7 resist skill on

While it is possible to have resist skill permanently on with orci book (if you remove 3 or more debuffs when you use it and have about 70% CD, that is), the % of resist gets to pretty low if you do the math, after 8 seconds youre already down to 60% resist if youre not using resist buffs, which is already low enough to be stunned to death pretty easily during mass fights like gvgs/irselnort wars.

 

On 11/20/2022 at 12:38 PM, Bromancé said:

And if stun on that 80% or 90% resist fails, he gets extra second for resist as well

Incorrect. The more i read the more i think that you do not play a chief at all. The extra seconds you get to the duration come from the amount of debuffs you remove when you use the skill, for example:

 

Chief 1 has 0 debuffs applied to him, the chief uses resist, it lasts for 6 seconds regardless how many effects he resists AFTER using the skill.

 

Chief 2 has 3 debuffs applied to him, the chief uses resist, it lasts 9 seconds because he he removed 3 debuffs when using the skill.

 

Max amount of debuffs removed with 4/4 resist skill is 4, so it is possible to have 14 seconds of resist without orci book if you have the talent and remove 4 debuffs when using the skill. It is possible to have it permanently on even without orci book, 115% CD gets you down to 13.9 seconds cooldown of the skill. A chief with 70% CD + 15% CD pot + shaman 30% CD buff gets you to 115% already.

 

On 12/11/2022 at 8:13 PM, Bromancé said:

since that barbarian has 15 books and that chief just 1

The chief in the video has way more books than 1. Barb is also a bad class vs chief, it does low dmg, a chief can tank it with rugged and heals and it has a dispell skill to remove berserker power or such skills. Barb has 0 support to help a teammate when needed, alone it cant tank a chief for long due to chief dot dmg being able to remove stone skins easily etc, the list goes on.

 

 

11 hours ago, Bromancé said:

but giving way too control on wars/massive fights

Its not like they can just walk around freely spamming skills on enemies endlessly without interruption, they have few seconds longer resist and rugged and it doesnt make them unable to be stunned at all, they just get a few extra seconds of time per skill use. Chieftains in general are tanky in mass fights due to the high amount of aoe dmg they do which gives them alot of lifesteal, having rage buff active permanently in mass fights which heals for 15% of their hp everytime they kill someone (they get alot of kills every fight since the amount of aoe is high and finishes off alot of low hp enemies), guild fury skill healing 30% for each enemy killed aswell, rage and guild fury help classes with high aoe alot in mass fights. Eagle being a buff that lasts for 8 seconds and you can perma it if youre not permastunned (meaning that even if you get stunned sometimes, you still have eagle around you 24/7 doing aoe dmg and healing you with lifesteal etc.). I dont think i need to continue listing all the things that affect way more than a simple book. Chief is generally just strong in any mass fight, not just because 1-2 of them/server got orci book.

 

As for arena, sure orci chiefs are a hard match but certainly beatable with the correct team.

 

My final words are that you should learn the class u want to complain about first, before saying things that are either irrelevant to it, incorrect information or just nonsense. A video of a barb hitting a chief, applying bleeds and oher debuffs, just for him to then remove them all when using resist, getting all those extra seconds to it, not even removing event/bp effects from the buff bar so no one can even see what debuffs he has when he uses resist which is critical information because it affects the duration of the skill, makes me think that the video was intentionally made to look as bad as possible for the chief cause who would fight in arena without knowing what buffs and debuffs the enemy even has?

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