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Charmers Overpowered Relic "Icy Relic of Cruelty"


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2 hours ago, Ivoo said:

Just change relic description and people have nothing to argue about its working like it should. 

This is just ignoring the whole point either on purpose or by just not understanding. The problem isn't the description, it's how strong the relic is when paired with call. For every other skill that it can be used on, it isn't a problem, whether or not it works exactly as the description says.

 

For example, hamstring, you get 3 crits on a low damage bleed skill, that will have a cooldown after. Ok, thats not bad but not broken.

 

Druids bees same deal, you get crits on a low dmg DoT skill, once again, decent, not broken.

 

Barbarian, same deal, DoT skill. And same goes for hunter and warlock.

 

For mages and shamans it is a 1 time aoe nuke. 

 

This list goes on for every class, until we arrive at charmer. Instead of it being applied to a one time use skill, it gets applied to a summoned minion, which lingers around, dealing consistent high damage even without crits, and to top it off you can keep 3 of them up permanently. Also this skill happens to be charmers main source of damage, which is now, you guessed it, doubled.

 

And this pairing is the problem. Call is a completely different type of skill from every other skill that this relic can be used on. Creating a unique situation where the skill/relic pairing is simply broken and unbalanced. 

 

Hopefully this clears up any confusions, and allows you to take part in the conversation with a proper understanding of the problem at hand!

Edited by vavavi
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9 hours ago, Babocool said:

Well most likely the problem is that charmers skill ”call” is different in mechanic than any other skill that uses this relic. Call can be used whenever to spawn dogs and the exact moment rage is activated they start critting with 100% chance where other classes need to use skill with this relic when rage is already in effect to get the relic working which is how its supposed to work. Charmers are fine as they are just the relic needs adjustment nobody in their right mind would think that giving any class a relic to practically double their damage output is reasonable.

You can't kill poison, you can't kill ham, but you can kill dogs, this boss just decided not to bite them, simple as that. There's no complain about this on any other raids/pvp scenario now, it's been fixed already few months ago if I may remind you. Maybe it's just you, lack of buffers or something, even charmers got outdmged by other classes several times, just the fact people complain more than try see actual effort for try other ways, as I noticed there's other servers who already winning charmers ^^

18 minutes ago, vavavi said:

This is just ignoring the whole point either on purpose or by just not understanding. The problem isn't the description, it's how strong the relic is when paired with call

 

Hopefully this clears up any confusions, and allows you to take part in the conversation with a proper understanding of the problem at hand!

You're clearly pointing the author of this topic, he's the one who discussed about this wrong description:cat1: back to point, you can't "kill" any other skill but the dog,(you can fail skill and benefit with relic yes) up to you if you want/can kill it or not, maybe bosses need skills for kill those minions but they're not that smart yet:Penguin8:

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58 minutes ago, Azerbaizan said:

You're clearly pointing the author of this topic, he's the one who discussed about this wrong description:cat1: back to point, you can't "kill" any other skill but the dog,(you can fail skill and benefit with relic yes) up to you if you want/can kill it or not, maybe bosses need skills for kill those minions but they're not that smart yet:Penguin8:

You also cant spawn 3 hamstrings for example, and they wont do 2k+ non crit dmg, also you cant have 3 of them just lingering around. You're just making a comparison between 2 completely different things to dodge the actual point. 

 

You're even quoting a post where the point was explained, in detail, and yet you just ignore it. Or you can't understand it, in which case theres not much that can be done about it.

Edited by vavavi
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51 minutes ago, vavavi said:

You also cant spawn 3 hamstrings for example, and they wont do 2k+ non crit dmg, also you cant have 3 of them just lingering around. You're just making a comparison between 2 completely different things to dodge the actual point. 

 

You're even quoting a post where the point was explained, in detail, and yet you just ignore it. Or you can't understand it, in which case theres not much that can be done about 

As i said u guys are unlucky that theese bosses this year dont have aoe dmg, maybe next years will be and fact what other guy just said Dogs can be killed but poison bleeding etc cant chief can too perma crit with aoe since high cd easily max rage etc. 

this relic works well as should do and only issue is wrong description. 

charmers deserve this relic because they cant have other parameters like Critical Damage, Most of buffs dont work at their dogs how is this balanced? why good parameters doesnt work for them? 

 

so firstly dont say they unbalanced for being good charmer you need good gears and alot money, same goes to every character. Why else rage armor 1m each, Relic itself 500k,Rings 1m, cloak amu 2m, Books about 10-15m 

 

Ye if all players would have working parameters i could agree with you if charmers able to get 30% critical damage from mermens, elm book etc it would be balanced then noone would care about this relic. 

Edited by Ivoo
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22 minutes ago, Ivoo said:

As i said u guys are unlucky that theese bosses this year dont have aoe dmg, maybe next years will be and fact what other guy just said Dogs can be killed but poison bleeding etc cant chief can too perma crit with aoe since high cd easily max rage etc. 

this relic works well as should do and only issue is wrong description. 

charmers deserve this relic because they cant have other parameters like Critical Damage, Most of buffs dont work at their dogs how is this balanced? why good parameters doesnt work for them? 

 

so firstly dont say they unbalanced for being good charmer you need good gears and alot money, same goes to every character. Why else rage armor 1m each, Relic itself 500k,Rings 1m, cloak amu 2m, Books about 10-15m 

 

Ye if all players would have working parameters i could agree with you if charmers able to get 30% critical damage from mermens, elm book etc it would be balanced then noone would care about this relic. 


Why do you insist the description being wrong when its more likely that the skill interaction on a single class is way more likely to be incorrect instead? Makes no sense since rest of the skills work like they are supposed to.

 

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8 hours ago, Ivoo said:

As i said u guys are unlucky that theese bosses this year dont have aoe dmg, maybe next years will be and fact what other guy just said Dogs can be killed but poison bleeding etc cant chief can too perma crit with aoe since high cd easily max rage etc. 

this relic works well as should do and only issue is wrong description. 

charmers deserve this relic because they cant have other parameters like Critical Damage, Most of buffs dont work at their dogs how is this balanced? why good parameters doesnt work for them? 

 

so firstly dont say they unbalanced for being good charmer you need good gears and alot money, same goes to every character. Why else rage armor 1m each, Relic itself 500k,Rings 1m, cloak amu 2m, Books about 10-15m 

 

Ye if all players would have working parameters i could agree with you if charmers able to get 30% critical damage from mermens, elm book etc it would be balanced then noone would care about this relic. 

Firstly, this still isn't an issue with just current raid bosses. The conditions these bosses provide simply brought an existing balance issue to light.

 

Secondly giving a singular bleed skill crits is alot different than 3 dogs doing 4-5k crits each constantly.

 

Thirdly, using gear price as a reason is just dumb. Do you think every other class just spawns in the game with good gears? For no cost? 

 

Fourthly, i think you forget that charmers actually do get all those stats. Just dogs don't, much like any other minion.

 

Lastly, you're still ignoring the fact that a single relic is doing more than any book, gear or relic does in the game. By a huge margin. And why that is objectively speaking a balance issue.

 

Now i don't know if you just lack the capability to comprehend what i'm trying to say, or if your view is just clouded so badly by an existing bias that you refuse to see the problem with a single relic doing this much. Either way, tried to explain this same thing 3 times to you now, and each time you answer like you hadn't read a word.

Edited by vavavi
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it's just you then, and you're still wrong about what's the problem, I will be happy to explain it after event but not now ^^

3 hours ago, vavavi said:

You also cant spawn 3 hamstrings for example, and they wont do 2k+ non crit dmg, also you cant have 3 of them just lingering around. You're just making a comparison between 2 completely different things to dodge the actual point. 

 

You're even quoting a post where the point was explained, in detail, and yet you just ignore it. Or you can't understand it, in which case theres not much that can be done about it.

So you say you can't make more hamstrings than dogs at x time? Dude, you'd make more hamstrings, and end up killing dogs with single hamstring, if it was pve competition. You are just assuming that every boss should work same way, which would be boring in the end, also, you're saying this been problem for long time, yet I see all the complaints coming just now, shows perfectly the point why you all are here.

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44 minutes ago, Azerbaizan said:

it's just you then, and you're still wrong about what's the problem, I will be happy to explain it after event but not now ^^

So you say you can't make more hamstrings than dogs at x time? Dude, you'd make more hamstrings, and end up killing dogs with single hamstring, if it was pve competition. You are just assuming that every boss should work same way, which would be boring in the end, also, you're saying this been problem for long time, yet I see all the complaints coming just now, shows perfectly the point why you all are here.

 

He hasn't said a word about bosses. He never said bosses have to work the same way. 

 

Charmer's supposed to be a jack of all trades (and a master of none). Currently, a single relic (with the help of a boss' mechanic) lets it surpass in terms of damage every other class; classes designed to deal damage in a short ammount of time, eventually helped with stats and mermen gears. Be that as it may, independently if such build charmers are using is cheap or expensive, it's incorrect and unbalanced seeing 5 charmers being capable to win a damage dealer class (I repeat: designed to deal damage) thanks to a single relic. If it had been a simple incorrect description, it would have been corrected by now. 

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well, i would say could do that, but then we could make some upgrades like:

 

1- Dog hits can activate rage to charmer, since its very hard to activate it even having 30% or more rage.

2- cloth set will affect on dogs damage!

 

thats a lil suggestion that every other classes has this advantage, but charmers doesnt!

 

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even with these abilities, the charmer will not be able to deal more damage than a hunter or seeker, NEVER

 

 

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2 hours ago, Lipe RB said:

well, i would say could do that, but then we could make some upgrades like:

 

1- Dog hits can activate rage to charmer, since its very hard to activate it even having 30% or more rage.

2- cloth set will affect on dogs damage!

 

thats a lil suggestion that every other classes has this advantage, but charmers doesnt!

 

How on earth is rage hard to activate. Theres relics to guarantee it, theres a group rage book, theres a charmer hitting things with a mace and skills, each of which can keep rage active?

 

No other class has that advantage. No minions get crit dmg from their user, or activate the users rage.

1 hour ago, Maid said:

even with these abilities, the charmer will not be able to deal more damage than a hunter or seeker, NEVER

 

 

Even without 100% crits charmers have extremely high dps. I would argue they do around same dps as bds and rogues even without the relic. The fact that you want a healing tank class to also beat pure damage classes is a bit off. 

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13 hours ago, vavavi said:

This is just ignoring the whole point either on purpose or by just not understanding. The problem isn't the description, it's how strong the relic is when paired with call. For every other skill that it can be used on, it isn't a problem, whether or not it works exactly as the description says.

Quote

 

For example, hamstring, you get 3 crits on a low damage bleed skill, that will have a cooldown after. Ok, thats not bad but not broken.

 

Druids bees same deal, you get crits on a low dmg DoT skill, once again, decent, not broken.

 

Barbarian, same deal, DoT skill. And same goes for hunter and warlock.

 

For mages and shamans it is a 1 time aoe nuke. 

 

This list goes on for every class, until we arrive at charmer. Instead of it being applied to a one time use skill, it gets applied to a summoned minion, which lingers around, dealing consistent high damage even without crits, and to top it off you can keep 3 of them up permanently. Also this skill happens to be charmers main source of damage, which is now, you guessed it, doubled.

 

And this pairing is the problem. Call is a completely different type of skill from every other skill that this relic can be used on. Creating a unique situation where the skill/relic pairing is simply broken and unbalanced. 

 

Hopefully this clears up any confusions, and allows you to take part in the conversation with a proper understanding of the problem at hand!

Good explanation, you show all the mechanics and the differences of each one, but they do see it only that they do what they do not understand on purpose, because it suits them that a class that is very empowered like the charmer is a destroyer both in pvp and pve

 

11 hours ago, Ivoo said:

this relic works well as should do and only issue is wrong description.

on other characters it works as it should on the charmer it doesn't

11 hours ago, Ivoo said:

As i said u guys are unlucky that theese bosses this year dont have aoe dmg, maybe next years will be and fact what other guy just said Dogs can be killed but poison bleeding etc cant chief can too perma crit with aoe since high cd easily max rage etc. 

charmers deserve this relic because they cant have other parameters like Critical Damage, Most of buffs dont work at their dogs how is this balanced? why good parameters doesnt work for them?

better read the skills and parameters again before you are focused on armor, I think we should all be reading this

Video_1648604073.gif.66275f53eddafb4db59f4e66e60d8dfa.gif

  • Energy Regeneration: 84 In combat 42, with Shamans 4/4 Energy Field arounds this isnt a problem, and charmer doesnt need spend skills like stuns is only bird dogs sellect target.
  • Physical Damage Calculator FAKE: 1099
  • Physical Damage game REAL: 1232 +10 Amplification + Accesories No% Without Buffs
Quote

Nott.JPG.584f699a41a328999959a745ad808d0b.JPG

Now look this exageration

Quote

Myster.JPG.e9de14037a9283fa47b2b8104ace6862.JPG

 

11 hours ago, Ivoo said:

Charmers deserve this relic because they cant have other parameters like Critical Damage FAKE, Most of buffs dont work at their dogs how is this balanced? why good parameters doesnt work for them?

  • Critical Hit: 23.6% + 20% (Ally Staff Charmer for those Shield Charmer) = 43.6% vv Read vv
  • Critical Hit: 23.6% + 25% (Charmer Staff) = 48.6%

 

Quote

 

1923078849_2.2EOtherworldlyBlessing.jpg.8726fbecbba13e9e3de16cda579d110c.jpg  Otherworldly Blessing 4/4

Increases the maximum health of the target, maximum amount of energy, as well as the Block parameter if equipped with a shield, and the Critical Damage and Critical Healing parameter if equipped with a staff for some time. When used on an ally, the character and the ally receive a portion of the effect.

Quote

Energy expense: 22 units

Cooldown: 35 seconds

MP increased (%): 10% / 15% / 20% / 25%

If a staff is equipped

Parameter critical hit (%): 13% / 16% / 20% / 25%

Buff critical damage (%): 13% / 16% / 20% / 25%

Ally effect gived (%): 50% / 60% / 70% / 80%

Time effect (seconds): 15 / 20 / 25 / 30

What is 80% of 25%?

A percent is a ratio of a number expressed out of 100.

Explanation:

80% of 25% can be written as 80% × 25

80% × 25 = 80/100 × 25 = 20

Thus, 80% of 25 is 20%.

 

 

  • Accuracy: 25.7% + 35% = 60.7% Max Accu is 50%
Quote

 

37118584_2.5EEyeofDarkness.jpg.70dafca4e9b440047636358cea4c8df6.jpg  Eye of the Darkness 4/4

Increases physical and magical defense and accuracy of the character or an ally, and lets them see enemies when they are invisible and are located within a few yards for some time.

Quote

Energy expense: 22 units

Cooldown: 20 seconds

Increment of defense (%): 20% / 25% / 30% / 35%

Time effect (seconds): 14 / 16 / 18 / 20

 

  • Penetration: 30.1% + 20% = 50.1% Max is 50%
Quote

1861074099_1.1BDarkPrism.jpg.7b04b51805c370e05493cde10ce7def1.jpg  Dark Prism in case of fail

Quote

1388623423_MagicRelicofCruelty.JPG.0e7ac35615907a219e0d93c104ab8b57.JPG

  • CD 36.7%
  • CD 36.7% + 30% (Shaman Energy Field 4/4) = 66.7%

 

Quote

 

1099745845_1.4BCall.jpg.5b72df864ef25c8c634f96194a08ae42.jpg  Call

Summons a monster to a specified region for some time. The monster deals physical damage to an opponent.

Energy expense: 18 units

Cooldown: 22 seconds

Maximum number of summons: 3

Time of summon (seconds): 12 / 15 / 18 / 22 / 26

CD 36.7%

22 Seconds / 1.367 = 16.09 Seconds : 2 Dogs

CD 36.7% + 30% (Shaman Energy Field 4/4) = 66.7%

22 Seconds / 1.667 = 13.19 Seconds : 2 Dogs

 

1473647378_2.7EDemonicPact.jpg.c34489693356aa4661612042ed6aadfa.jpg  Demonic Pact

Increases the life time of monsters summoned by the Call and Help of Chaos skills, and reduces the damage they receive for the duration of the skill. The effect power increases as the skill develops. Skill with constant energy consumption.

Energy expense: 20 units

Energy regen reduction (units): 5 / 7 / 9 / 10

Increment lifetime of summons "Call" and "Help of Chaos" (%): 40% / 50% / 60% / 70%

 

1099745845_1.4BCall.jpg.5b72df864ef25c8c634f96194a08ae42.jpg  Call Time of summon (seconds): 12 / 15 / 18 / 22 / 26

26 x 1.70 = 42.2 Seconds
with spawn time CD 16.09 seconds you can spawn 16.09 Seconds x 2 Dogs = 32.18 Seconds 2 Full dogs

42.2 Seconds / 16.09 Seconds = 2.62 Dogs

with spawn time CD 13.19 Seconds you can spawn 13.19 Seconds x 3 Dogs = 39.57 Seconds 3 Full dogs

42.2 Seconds / 13.19 Seconds = 3.19 Dogs

 

  • Rage: 37% only need pots for increase this
Quote

1861074099_1.1BDarkPrism.jpg.7b04b51805c370e05493cde10ce7def1.jpg  Dark Prism 100% Rage chance in case of fail

Quote

2080408527_RageRelic.JPG.a6058f1e07d72c9dd49f0749f65a319d.JPG

Another dmg method

Video_1648603878.gif.c21e7286ea6f91bb1d863f7922db2bf2.gif

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The people that defending the relic on charmers, are ignoring all facts others stating and focusing that "other classes have more damage than charmer" or whatever low excuse, no matter how many times @vavaviand others are repeating.. they purposely avoid it in sake of maintaining the only thing they can win in game :d 

 

their comments look exactly as their chat in world chat, ignoring whatever people say and insisting to what they want others to be convinced. so fun to watch wkwkwk 

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3 hours ago, Ahmed Didar said:

This is just our time, stop crying

Stop misuse the word cry, pls

Because isnt

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Jaja the topic is made about a relic, and the guys from Mc wanna turn it into raid crap, this is not the game world chat, useless off topics:piggy:

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On 3/30/2022 at 2:33 PM, vavavi said:

healing tank class to also beat pure damage classes is a bit off. 

your talking like someone use charmers as tank, and it have a broken heal like barbs/pala/wardens/dk xD

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On 3/31/2022 at 11:20 PM, Kyrai said:

Stop misuse the word cry, pls

Because isnt

The relic says what it does and it is doing

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19 hours ago, Lipe RB said:

your talking like someone use charmers as tank, and it have a broken heal like barbs/pala/wardens/dk xD

I mean one might call a heavy armor and shield using character with an agro skill a tank, but maybe im mistaken.

1 hour ago, Ahmed Didar said:

The relic says what it does and it is doing

Mans still ignoring everything thats been said. Or is actually incapable of understanding.

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1 hour ago, Ahmed Didar said:

The relic says what it does and it is doing

relic.png.7d884aaae4619a4ae92472bbc27695a9.png

yes bro, open eyes

Spoiler

if I would think like you, I would also think that I would get leadership back after being banned :).

 

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10 hours ago, Babocool said:

relic.png.7d884aaae4619a4ae92472bbc27695a9.png

yes bro, open eyes

  Reveal hidden contents

if I would think like you, I would also think that I would get leadership back after being banned :).

 

my eyes were already opened with 25% rage

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As someone who's pro "For the legion" and plays sentinels, I believe the relic shouldn't make the charmer be something it's not, like a damage dealer, if it's ment to be a "tank healing support hybrid" or whatever, it's supposed to be like how the devs designed it for full stop. I know everyone wants balance but finding a bug or a loophole and taking advantage of that isn't setting a balance, even tho only ppl who spends money on the game can do that currently. So I'm down with the idea about the devs fixing this problem and my legion brothers who wants a balanced game should too.

Edited by Malik Campbell
,
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4 hours ago, Malik Campbell said:

As someone who's pro "For the legion" and plays sentinels, I believe the relic shouldn't make the charmer be something it's not, like a damage dealer, if it's ment to be a "tank healing support hybrid" or whatever, it's supposed to be like how the devs designed it for full stop. I know everyone wants balance but finding a bug or a loophole and taking advantage of that isn't setting a balance, even tho only ppl who spends money on the game can do that currently. So I'm down with the idea about the devs fixing this problem and my legion brothers who wants a balanced game should too.

balance? yeah i don't wanna talk about elf side being op af for several years due their crazy dmg

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4 hours ago, Ahmed Didar said:

balance? yeah i don't wanna talk about elf side being op af for several years due their crazy dmg

In that case, try to make your voices louder than before to get the attention of the devs, because If this was happening for several years and no changes were made? It's either the legion isn't amplifying their voices or the sentinels have convincing arguments against your claims. So push harder for neutrality by laying out every problems in the suggestion forum

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relic.png.dd679758c9ea5b65fac8bd77d139798e.pngIs this relic working right or not, it has been 1 week since this topic been created, yet no answer from any dev or admin. @Nolan

 

to repeat what I mean,

 

as the Relic says, charmer dogs are allowed to do a "crit" while they are  spawned on the "Fury" effect,

yet in my video, 3 dogs been spawned before any Rage was activated and all 3 of them were allowed to crit the whole time. ( not spawned during Fury effect)

One answer would be great for this matter.

 

my Video:

2141896791_ezgif.com-gif-maker(11).gif.40804383de9c681d7bb592b3a660472b.gif

 

Spoiler

People saying we crying about it is a bit too much. they would look for the exact same answer as we do, if they had the same problem.

 

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I get what you're saying, according to the description. This is probably a translation issue. But as you said, this relic is supposed to work when it's used with rage. It's like using a heal skill from staff to 1hand mace. That heal buff is pertaining to the staff even when it's not equipped. As this call skill(dog) is used without the rage buff and shouldn't get the benefits from the relic. 

This fix won't affect charmers at all tbh.

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Where is balance? 

 

Both of them have same stats but why bd should have 30% attack strenght as tank+ this skill should be changed to block or parry stats or increase dk damage. 

 

And then you are mad about charmers one relic? 

Screenshot_2022-04-07-08-24-19-018_com.aigrind.warspear.jpg

Screenshot_2022-04-07-08-24-09-112_com.aigrind.warspear.jpg

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39 minutes ago, Ivoo said:

Where is balance? 

 

Both of them have same stats but why bd should have 30% attack strenght as tank+ this skill should be changed to block or parry stats or increase dk damage. 

 

And then you are mad about charmers one relic? 

Screenshot_2022-04-07-08-24-19-018_com.aigrind.warspear.jpg

Screenshot_2022-04-07-08-24-09-112_com.aigrind.warspear.jpg

I believe it's because of their "race ability bonus stats thingy" like the elves gets 4% increase dmg and Forsaken gets 3 extra energy regen points.

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3 hours ago, Ivoo said:

Where is balance? 

 

Both of them have same stats but why bd should have 30% attack strenght as tank+ this skill should be changed to block or parry stats or increase dk damage. 

 

And then you are mad about charmers one relic? 

Screenshot_2022-04-07-08-24-19-018_com.aigrind.warspear.jpg

Screenshot_2022-04-07-08-24-09-112_com.aigrind.warspear.jpg

 

Why does Rogue have almost free 100% dodge against majority of the classes, better stuns than seeker, better dots than seeker and more damage than seeker in pvp?

This adds nothing to the discussion, this is about relic being broken on charmer not about whatever else issues you bring up.

 

(Also Deathknight has a skill that increases damage and defence so I don't know why you are complaining. Just because you don't level it up doesn't mean its not good. Deathknight mains currently playing in legion just have no imagination for builds.)

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33 minutes ago, Raislin said:

 

(Also Deathknight has a skill that increases damage and defence so I don't know why you are complaining. Just because you don't level it up doesn't mean its not good. Deathknight mains currently playing in legion just have no imagination for builds.)

So with 1 skill dk can become better than bd in terms of attack.  Wow that 15% dmg is so good that it makes my char do 2037 dmg with single hit while with critical  i can one hit bosses at myth nadir. With steel hurricane and aura combo i can clean all my opponents in gvg with 1 skill use . Idk how no1 even tried using aura and spear combo. Once when u land ur hit after those 2 years of waiting u can clearly see that dk is on same terms as bd.

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37 minutes ago, Raislin said:

this is about relic being broken on charmer

actually, im here from a few days asking myself on wich term people are saying it is broken,

it dosent respond to the description in some way? it is too strong? because from the whole thing it is that people are saying both or one of them

i can see why it can seem/be too strong in terms of dps for the class it is but i see it its a class wich is a filler to a party, in pvp battles it can s- *aoe the life outta em*.

i would suggest to request to have the dogs itself either:

-have 100% crit on it only when summoned while rage is active 

-inerth the rage stat from the summoner, and have the relic active only when rage is active (at this point we better just make it inerth evrything thinking about it lol)

-make solidity apply to the crit damage recived from the summons, but also keeping the damage reduction from resilience from the summons too, (in short make their hits count as both PLAYER damage in terms it is reduced by resilience, and as MONSTER damage in terms that solidity decreases the critical damage takes from it)and if they're not already, let the summons do not count as players while in aoes 

 

solidity automaticaly grows with the physical deffence.

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1 hour ago, lore said:

actually, im here from a few days asking myself on wich term people are saying it is broken,

it dosent respond to the description in some way? it is too strong? because from the whole thing it is that people are saying both or one of them

i can see why it can seem/be too strong in terms of dps for the class it is but i see it its a class wich is a filler to a party, in pvp battles it can s- *aoe the life outta em*.

i would suggest to request to have the dogs itself either:

-have 100% crit on it only when summoned while rage is active 

-inerth the rage stat from the summoner, and have the relic active only when rage is active (at this point we better just make it inerth evrything thinking about it lol)

-make solidity apply to the crit damage recived from the summons, but also keeping the damage reduction from resilience from the summons too, (in short make their hits count as both PLAYER damage in terms it is reduced by resilience, and as MONSTER damage in terms that solidity decreases the critical damage takes from it)and if they're not already, let the summons do not count as players while in aoes 

 

solidity automaticaly grows with the physical deffence.

 

Its broken on charmer because you can have 3 dogs permanently up and anytime you have rage (which is almost always and you don't even need that much rage % to make it happen) you automatically double their damage for the cost of a single relic. Meanwhile using the relic on any other class you might get to use the skill once or twice depending on the skills cooldown and if you use it right after rage triggers. Even if you can hold rage permanently it barely affects your overall dps.

 

Lets just say you are a mage that can use it on 2 skills and they hit 1000 non critical damage and when you critical its around 2200 if you add in critical damage from guild. They will have around 6-7 seconds of cooldown (if you have a decent amount of cdr) so lets make it easier and put it at 6 so we will have a round number. So in a minute you would technically be able to use the skills 10 times making your damage increase from 20.000 to 44.000 in a span of a minute if using skills optimally.

 

Now to breakdown charmer it gets complicated because I don't know the attack speed of the dogs but lets say its 3 seconds since that's a good compromise. They get to hit a target 20 times a minute for around 1500 damage per hit (check the first page of the thread for a video where they hit over 1.8k each to know I'm being generous here) As far as I know they aren't affected by critical damage bonuses so critical will do 3000 damage. And because they are "permanent" 20 attacks a minute aren't an issue.
30.000 damage non critical damage and 60.000 with critical. Now you need to remember charmers can have 3 of these things out at the same time which would make your total damage from 90.000 to 180.000. 

Edited by Raislin
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18 minutes ago, Raislin said:

 

Its broken on charmer because you can have 3 dogs permanently up and anytime you have rage (which is almost always and you don't even need that much rage % to make it happen) you automatically double their damage for the cost of a single relic. Meanwhile using the relic on any other class you might get to use the skill once or twice depending on the skills cooldown and if you use it right after rage triggers. Even if you can hold rage permanently it barely affects your overall dps.

 

Lets just say you are a mage that can use it on 2 skills and they hit 1000 non critical damage and when you critical its around 2200 if you add in critical damage from guild. They will have around 6-7 seconds of cooldown (if you have a decent amount of cdr) so lets make it easier and put it at 6 so we will have a round number. So in a minute you would technically be able to use the skills 10 times making your damage increase from 20.000 to 44.000 in a span of a minute if using skills optimally.

 

Now to breakdown charmer it gets complicated because I don't know the attack speed of the dogs but lets say its 3 seconds since that's a good compromise. They get to hit a target 20 times a minute for around 1500 damage per hit (check the first page of the thread for a video where they hit over 1.8k each to know I'm being generous here) As far as I know they aren't affected by critical damage bonuses so critical will do 3000 damage. And because they are "permanent" 20 attacks a minute aren't an issue.
30.000 damage non critical damage and 60.000 with critical. Now you need to remember charmers can have 3 of these things out at the same time which would make your total damage from 90.000 to 180.000. Lets not also forget about the bird which would of course do less damage since it deals magical instead of physical damage but it isn't negligible if you build the character correctly.

Yea, even with the changes, the skill will still be op with the relic. And it's not the only class either. Rage build mage, this relic is op on it too. Obviously not as op with 3 dogs. Every class is op or broken if you build them like that. It's called, endgame build. 

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On 3/30/2022 at 6:55 PM, Kyrai said:

Good explanation, you show all the mechanics and the differences of each one, but they do see it only that they do what they do not understand on purpose, because it suits them that a class that is very empowered like the charmer is a destroyer both in pvp and pve

 

on other characters it works as it should on the charmer it doesn't

better read the skills and parameters again before you are focused on armor, I think we should all be reading this

Video_1648604073.gif.66275f53eddafb4db59f4e66e60d8dfa.gif

  • Energy Regeneration: 84 In combat 42, with Shamans 4/4 Energy Field arounds this isnt a problem, and charmer doesnt need spend skills like stuns is only bird dogs sellect target.
  • Physical Damage Calculator FAKE: 1099
  • Physical Damage game REAL: 1232 +10 Amplification + Accesories No% Without Buffs

Now look this exageration

 

  • Critical Hit: 23.6% + 20% (Ally Staff Charmer for those Shield Charmer) = 43.6% vv Read vv
  • Critical Hit: 23.6% + 25% (Charmer Staff) = 48.6%

 

 

  • Accuracy: 25.7% + 35% = 60.7% Max Accu is 50%
  • Penetration: 30.1% + 20% = 50.1% Max is 50%
  • CD 36.7%
  • CD 36.7% + 30% (Shaman Energy Field 4/4) = 66.7%

 

  • Rage: 37% only need pots for increase this

Another dmg method

Video_1648603878.gif.c21e7286ea6f91bb1d863f7922db2bf2.gif

Well, I think that kind of surprise coming from you is funny. There are several broken attributes that are quite exaggerated and there is no post about it. The absurd amount of resist that has been placed on equipment, accessors, relics, guild ability, runes, books, etc. Not satisfied, even added scroll and book that decrease the debuff in the use (this includes stuns that are already impaired with the absurd amount of resist in all those examples above).

In addition, we also have piercing and attack strength that are attributes specifically for DPS classes, where does this benefit in locks, mages, tanks in general? At no time was any attribute considered that comes in these events, which is specific to these classes mentioned.

Edited by Itzblaack
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Just now, Itzblaack said:

Well, I think that kind of surprise coming from you is funny. There are several broken attributes that are quite exaggerated and there is no post about it. The absurd amount of resist that has been placed on equipment, accessors, relics, guild ability, runes, books, etc. Not satisfied, even added scroll and book that decrease the debuff in the use (this includes stuns that are already impaired with the absurd amount of resist in all those examples above).

In addition, we also have piercing and attack strength that are attributes specifically for DPS classes, where does this benefit in locks, mages, tanks in general? At no time was any attribute considered that comes in these events, which is specific to these classes mentioned.

Go to the calculator and tell me what bonus you would give to a full damage charmer for bosses that put control over you, I would not put Hp on it honestly
later tell me how it went with the skills
Anyway the developers should already be thinking about what to do with the charmer for future updates, because already this spring it was unheard of, it's not even worth being damaged and receiving a lot of debuffs and stuns, losing auto attacks and CD skills for exceeding the damage of the player Charmer and her dogs
Dogs have their own individual damage and don't stack it on the charmer character until they die.
and the problem more than everything was the mechanics
Of course it is also very easy to put a charmer of 1820 damage
with dogs that should range from 2100 auto damage
+10% permanent damage Rage
+55% Summoner Skill
Adding everything up to 3465 base dog attack damage every 2 seconds
crits are +7600 x3 times each individual dog, and dogs are unaffected by anything while players get their debuffs and get kicked out,
There are many factors that harm the player more than the summons, don't you think?
anyway, the damage charmer they invented has no gameplay, it's just doing the same thing, putting dogs, letting them attack
Call Weakness Summoner Bird doesn't actually spend much mana either.

I invite you make a DPS and tell me how is without animation interferences too
I have skills in rogue who makes me stop DPS like flurry
BD sound of blades

Ranger Blessing

etc..

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2 hours ago, Kyrai said:

Vá para a calculadora e me diga qual bônus você daria para um encantador de dano total para chefes que colocassem o controle sobre você, eu não colocaria Hp nele honestamente
depois me diga como foi com as habilidades
De qualquer forma os desenvolvedores já devem estar pensando o que fazer com o encantador para futuras atualizações, pois já nesta primavera era inédito, não vale nem a pena ser danificado e receber muitos debuffs e stuns, perder ataques automáticos e habilidades de CD por exceder o dano do jogador Charmer e ela cães
Os cães têm seu próprio dano individual e não o acumulam no personagem encantador até que morram.
e o problema mais do que tudo foi a mecânica
Claro que também é muito fácil colocar um encantador de 1820 de dano
com cães que devem variar de 2100 de dano automático
+10% de dano permanente Fúria
+55% de habilidade de invocador
Adicionando tudo até 3465 de dano de ataque de cão base a cada 2 segundos
, os críticos são +7600 x3 vezes cada cão individual, e os cães não são afetados por nada enquanto os jogadores receber seus debuffs e ser expulso,
Existem muitos fatores que prejudicam o jogador mais do que a convocação, você não acha?
de qualquer forma, o encantador de dano que eles inventaram não tem jogabilidade, está apenas fazendo a mesma coisa, colocando cachorros, deixando eles atacarem
Call Weakness Summoner Bird na verdade também não gasta muita mana.

Convido você a fazer um DPS e me diga como é sem interferências de animação também
tenho habilidades em ladino quem me faz parar o DPS como rajada
de som BD de lâminas

Bênção dos Rangers

etc.

Okay, cool. And what's the problem with that? Dogs are a specific skill and have had alteration that was previously 5 or more dogs.  Moreover, this does not make charmer a better damager than the others, the raid boss spring is something specific to the event in which it has the purpose of creating a dispute for itself. Now let's analyze all the mechanities provided by the game and see if there is even this discrepancy? Okay, let's do it. 

 

Dungeons: Often are mobs with a mean of 4-10k hp that are easily killed with a party and there is not even time to summon the 3 dogs and often does not even activate the rage, even by the dynamism of the mechanics.

 

Arena: For you to have an effectiveness in dogs it is necessary that there is a lot of rage, and for you to have this attribute is necessary to lose a lot of resilience, making the charmer become more vulnerable, right? It's very similar to the resist attribute as well. Outside that nowadays there are many combination stakes that can beat it.

 

GVG: This is not even relevant to consider, since the dogs are accessible to any damage in the area. Plus need a while to summon the 3 dogs and activate the rage attribute.

 

Raid boss: Except for the spring bosses (which all mcs guilds have possibility to use the class too) I see no problems. Engineer and Black Elm are bosses with mechanical PVP too, and have a random revive time within that 22-24h deadline. The elves themselves have never tried all the same class combinations we try with the mcs classes, so there's nothing to whine about changes.

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This class need to be deleted from warspear wkwk 🤣🤣 . Or adjust/reduced its power and attack speed. Let say 1 call spawn is normal power, 2nd spawn reduced % power/att. Speed for each summon.

Or best solution, dont touch this class.Keep and let it Ryfg

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12 hours ago, Speedom said:

:sad: 

These rants are directly towards high amped pvp Charmers with books and guild buffs. I swear I feel sorry for f2p charmers.

Ikr I'm in disbelief.

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  • 1 month later...
Posted (edited)

Sorry for my bad english but i have one teory,

i think have a bug at that relic, this not for talk about the dog dmg, dog hit 88% of physical dmg charmer, idk how the relic works, with 55% dmg of the summoner skill its not too much, but when you use summoner skill with dogs using that relic, the dmg aoe of that skills crit, but that skill dont have crit hit, only have dmg = dog hit, but when dog hit 2k with that relic, the summoner dont hit 2k, hit 4k, that is the point for me, i saw one video, and in this video one charmer test in lab monster and dog hit 2k crit, but aoe skill hit 4k!, i lose that video but if you have friend with that relic, tell he if can test pls.

Edited by turk gostoso
correcting
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