Jump to content

Thoughts on new balance changes?


Gladiator

Recommended Posts

Spoiler
On 12/13/2021 at 11:28 AM, Holmes said:

icon_class_08.png Paladin

 

icon_skill_shackles_of_judgement.png Fetters of Justice

  • The skill no longer reduces enemy damage.  

icon_skill_aura_of_light.png Light Aura

  • Changed skill type from active to active permanent skill: energy regeneration reduction of 7 \ 7 \ 8 \ 10 \ 12 units. 
  • Cooldown time is reduced: from 30 sec, to 20 sec.
  • Changed the visual effect of the skill. 
  • Added to the list of available relics for the skill: “Great Relic of Energy Stability”, “Small Relic of Energy Stability”.
    Removed from the list of available relics for the skill: “Great Relic of Energy Efficiency”, “Small Relic of Energy Efficiency”, “Great Relic of Continuous Effect”, “Small Relic of Continuous Effect” - after the release of the update, if these relics were installed in the skill, they will be automatically replaced by the Relic of Energy Stability.
  • Now the relic effect "Icy Relic of Intractability" will be activated while the "Rage" effect is on the character and will be deactivated if the effect from the "Rage" effect is over.

icon_skill_divine_light.png Heavenly Light

  • The amount of healing from magic power is reduced: from 100 \ 110 \ 120 \ 130 \ 140 %, to 85 \ 95 \ 105 \ 115 \ 125 %.

icon_skill_illumination.png Illumination

  • Skill damage from magic power is reduced: from 110 \ 120 \ 130 \ 140 %, to 70 \ 80 \ 90 \ 100 %.

icon_skill_repulsive_kick.png Repellent Strike

  • Stun duration is increased: from 1.5 \ 2 \ 2.5 \ 3 sec, to 2.5 \ 3 \ 3.5 \ 4 sec.

icon_skill_harads_call.png Harad's Call

  • Skill damage from magic power is reduced: from 110 \ 120 \ 135 \ 150 %, to 100 \ 110 \ 125 \ 140 %.

icon_skill_banner_of_the _harad.png Harad's Banner

  • Banner now deals a fixed amount of damage at 25 \ 30 \ 35 \ 40 % from magic power every 2 seconds, and deals 50% more damage to targets that are under the effect of Sun Seal skill.

icon_skill_solar_stamp.png Sun Seal

  • The skill effect no longer goes into defensive parameters, except “Resistance”.

icon_skill_pala_pray.png Paladin's Prayer

  • Cooldown time is reduced: from 45 sec, to 40 sec.
  • Skill duration is increased: from 16 sec, to 20 sec. 
  • The amount of restored health is reduced: from 100%, to 40 \ 50 \ 60 \ 70 %.
  • Reduced speed of bonus reduction to maximum health: from 25% every 4 seconds, to 10% every 2 seconds. 
  • Energy consumption is reduced: from 22 \ 26 \ 30 \ 34 units, to 20 \ 24 \ 28 \ 30 units.

icon_exp_sk_v9_17.png Inner Forces

  • Skill now reduces the damage received from players by 2% and from monsters by 3% for every 12 \ 10 \ 8 \ 6 % of missing health. 

icon_skill_sacramental_shield.png Sacred Shield

  • Cooldown time is reduced: from 40 seconds, to 35 seconds.
  • Shield strength is reduced: from 50 \ 65 \ 80 \ 100 % from the target's health, to 30 \ 45 \ 55 \ 70 % from the target's health. 
  • Skill can now be applied to yourself on any level of skill development

icon_skill_light_protection.png Light Defense

  • Displayed effect icon changed.

Developer commentary: The Paladin demonstrates high efficiency in most game situations, due to that the demand for other classes of a similar game direction decreases. The Harad's Banner is now a full-fledged area damage skill, but it will be much weaker in point battles. And the increase of magical power in two-handed maces and spears should fully compensate for the reduced indicators in skills. 

 

So my thoughts:

 

icon_skill_shackles_of_judgement.png Fetters of Justice

Whatever, I think it's fine. That being said I feel like that nerf is was thought for PvP so I would have preferred if the damage reduction only applied in PvE and not PvP, since the silence effect is mostly useless in PvE, 10-20% damage reduction for a couple of seconds however can come in handy in PvE, especially against ranged units.

 

 

icon_skill_aura_of_light.png Light Aura

I already expressed my thoughts here: 

 

Spoiler
18 hours ago, Gladiator said:

I guarantee you it's not gonna be worth for just ''not having to worry about clicking on it to activate it every time''. If you really wanna keep using it, then that aura slot better become a mana pot slot because you will be running out very often especially if using mermen set. Also if you use deceptive control relic, you will still need to manually in-/activate it to gain that value.

And for what? +100-200 extra heal? No thanks, I'd rather have mana to use actually useful skills.

19 hours ago, Gladiator said:

If you have Aura at 3/5, 30 sec CD, it lasts 50 seconds and costs 22 mana per usage. And you would have basically a permanent buff.

After this change it would be -8 mana regen per 5 seconds, that means now aura costs 80 mana to use for 50 seconds!!! It gets even worse when you upgrade it. What the hell did aura do to deserve such an absurd nerf?! And please, correct me if I'm wrong in assessing the situation.

 

You would expect a considerable buff to the efficacy of the skill with such an increase of mana cost, but now why would I ever activate it let alone upgrade it...

 

 

To summarize: Around 400% increase in mana cost for the same strength, totally unnecessary nerf, it was already bad enough. Never use it unless you have infinite mana.

 

 

icon_skill_divine_light.png Heavenly Light

icon_skill_illumination.png Illumination

icon_skill_harads_call.png Harad's Call

icon_skill_repulsive_kick.png Repellent Strike

icon_skill_solar_stamp.png Sun Seal

I'm ok with all these changes, it seems though that we will see more physical damage 1h mace builds. Especially that Sun Seal is now more reliable for strike combo heal, and Strike stuns longer. I think 1h physical maces might become dominant in arena.

 

I do wish Sun Seal was a bit better of a skill on its own, we use just to increase banner damage or as combo with shield strike. Never for its actual effect. What's the point of leveling it up?

 

 

icon_skill_banner_of_the _harad.png Harad's Banner

Very interesting change, I see it as a buff for sure, the only time where it would be considered a nerf is if you catch only 1-2 people in the banner. When hitting 3+ targets it is actually a big buff. 

Considering we can use shield on ourselves now, it makes total sense that 1v1 damage would be nerfed, even if Illumination and Call damage is reduced, it makes sense with the increase in magic in hammers + banner aoe damage increase, otherwise Paladin's AoE damage will get kinda crazy. so I'll take that.

 

 

icon_skill_sacramental_shield.png Sacred Shield

icon_skill_pala_pray.png Paladin's Prayer

In my opinion, they are still the best skills for Paladin, unfortunately, this change will not change that. Shield is still not as OP as it used to be that's for sure. But with the lack of other defensive options, Paladins will still continue to run 4/4 shields.

 

What I like about prayer change though, is that it's not as effective as a heal skill anymore, it will be used more as it was intended to be - to initially increase the max hp. This also balances the support abilities of physical damage builds, which imo is a good direction.

 

 

icon_exp_sk_v9_17.png Inner Forces

icon_skill_light_protection.png Light Defense

This was their opportunity to provide some variety to Paladin builds, but they failed. Those 2 skills still suck.

I was excited for the balance changes, just to change my skill build and try something new. They gave us this big expectation for this update that it will change a lot. For palas nothing will change...

1-handed palas will still level up shield, prayer and strike

2-handed palas will still level up shield, prayer and banner

Thanks for the new skill icon though, huge change! :)

 

This topic is thought for discussing the upcoming changes in a less clouded topic, what are your thoughts on it? What do you think the future of Paladin holds?

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

well... reduced magic damage to the paladin's healing and tank, literally made the aura worse, I'm not sure but probably the developer plans that the paladin doesn't have mana to use abilities. I already expected some changes in my class but I didn't imagine something so drastic.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yea I like how they somewhat brought back the old banner style and same for the shield. Since I mainly look atthe pve perspective, this class can bring back open arms to new paladins. However, a lot of mana will be needed for of the player want sustainable support role. I can like the new implementation of the mana. I can see a new game changer. I'm ready to test it to see if my pala need a new makeover or not. 

Edited by Speedom
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I had high expectations with "inner force" 

But, as usual, I always end up disappointed. 

The current idea is good, but its dmg reduction is  hmmm.... 

I could say that a cardboard box protects better. 

As for "light defense, I expected some other defensive effect added... it only increases the defense a little And thats all... No reason to spend points on this. 

with "light aura" hmm

I think so that they have added this reg energy function, At least they would have added something else, because let's go... It cannot be that they have touched it and that in the end it has the same effect.   

With "sun seal" I didn't feel any relevant changes. 

So.... No need to use book of oblivion in this update... Again...

The same build I've had for years apparently will still working

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My main problem with Inner Force is that it is not Paladin-like, if they added a supportive aspect to the skill in addition to what it is right now, it would be great. Because it doesn't make the Paladin that much tankier, and I don't think Paladin should be all that tanky, but at least make it do some support.

 

Light Defense is just straight up weak. 40% extra defense might seem like a lot but in reality it's like 5-8% damage reduction depending on your current defense, so let's just call it what it is. It is a 8% damage reduction buff, in what world is that good enough compared to other skills?

The fact that it can be a permanent buff is what makes it look good, but I would much rather have a stronger effect for less time than this weak effect that lasts forever. It's just impossible to gain any significant value from a weak skill even if it lasted for a long time, because not a lot of fights last that long.

I think it just needs a redesign.

Right now it adds 40% defense (around 8% damage reduction) for 90 seconds with 60 seconds CD.

If you would reduce the duration by 6 times but make it 6 times stronger, you would have around 45-50% damage reduction for 15 seconds, it would be the same in total effectiveness, but you would still have a much better skill even though there would be 45 ''idle'' seconds.

 

I'm not saying that that's exactly how the skill should be, I'm just showing that the skill is really not that bad in total strength, it just needs a redesign, so that it gives a stronger effect for a lesser duration, because as it is, it is pretty much impossible to feel any significant value, because nowhere in the game the whole party of 5 people takes constant damage for over 90 seconds. And that's only where this skill would be useful.

Edited by Gladiator
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I really like the banner change but I don't know what to feel about them cutting down Illumination damage. But I suppose Sun seal will help with that. Unfortunately it would seem like Lv4 Sacred shield and Banner + Sun seal/Illumination or Prayer will still be the meta.

 

I also don't see physical build being more useful than it was due to how Repellent Strike works. Don't know whose idea it was to add push on that skill but fine i guess.

 

As for the rest of the skills, i don't really know. To me it seems clear that devs are just unable to balance defensive skills properly, they are either too strong or too weak never in between except maybe BDs Enlightenment but there you run into the problem that you are better off spending your gold and skill points elsewhere than making a snowflake build.  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Raislin said:

I really like the banner change but I don't know what to feel about them cutting down Illumination damage. But I suppose Sun seal will help with that. Unfortunately it would seem like Lv4 Sacred shield and Banner + Sun seal/Illumination or Prayer will still be the meta.

 

I also don't see physical build being more useful than it was due to how Repellent Strike works. Don't know whose idea it was to add push on that skill but fine i guess.

 

As for the rest of the skills, i don't really know. To me it seems clear that devs are just unable to balance defensive skills properly, they are either too strong or too weak never in between except maybe BDs Enlightenment but there you run into the problem that you are better off spending your gold and skill points elsewhere than making a snowflake build.  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Yeaaahh... Illumination nerf kinda stinks. It will deal at level 4 around as much damage as it currently does at level 1. But let's face it, it might still be the best damage dealer for palas in dungeons due to low cd (3 illus for 1 banner) and since it is damage that cannot miss, also you have to take into consideration that banner will deal like extra 50%+ the current damage when hitting maximum targets*. So the aoe damage of palas is in total increased, but you need to fully utilize banner so it is not as burst-y.

 

Well, my thoughts about physical damage builds is that they might become better in fights against 1-2, maybe max 3, targets, especially in 1v1s where banner is considerably nerfed*. The stun duration is more significant, and with Sun Seal not failing as much, it will be much reliable to heal back the 20% HP. The push comes in handy in more situations than it hurts, pushing away damagers from you or allies, and in seal arena it is obviously very useful.

 

Personally I might stick to 1 handed and 2 handed magic builds for the time being, but it will interesting to see if physical builds rise up. But like I said, useless skills are still useless which is a shame.

 

 

*

Spoiler

image.thumb.png.b4707765397c69bc1d3a19f287b1c1dd.png

This is in a reflection of the damage comparison of the old and new banner at each level in an ideal, simplified world. Defense/penetration/ferocity/resilience/critical hits will change those numbers. Also each hit can be dodged/parried/blocked, as well as skills that reduce incoming damage need to be considered.  The numbers for the new banner are still not confirmed in-game.

 

 

Edited by Gladiator
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 часов назад, Gladiator сказал:

Yeaaahh... Illumination nerf kinda stinks. It will deal at level 4 around as much damage as it currently does at level 1. But let's face it, it might still be the best damage dealer for palas in dungeons due to low cd (3 illus for 1 banner) and since it is damage that cannot miss, also you have to take into consideration that banner will deal like extra 50%+ the current damage when hitting maximum targets*. So the aoe damage of palas is in total increased, but you need to fully utilize banner so it is not as burst-y.

 

Well, my thoughts about physical damage builds is that they might become better in fights against 1-2, maybe max 3, targets, especially in 1v1s where banner is considerably nerfed*. The stun duration is more significant, and with Sun Seal not failing as much, it will be much reliable to heal back the 20% HP. The push comes in handy in more situations than it hurts, pushing away damagers from you or allies, and in seal arena it is obviously very useful.

 

Personally I might stick to 1 handed and 2 handed magic builds for the time being, but it will interesting to see if physical builds rise up. But like I said, useless skills are still useless which is a shame.

 

 

*

  Скрыть контент

image.thumb.png.b4707765397c69bc1d3a19f287b1c1dd.png

This is in a reflection of the damage comparison of the old and new banner at each level in an ideal, simplified world. Defense/penetration/ferocity/resilience/critical hits will change those numbers. Also each hit can be dodged/parried/blocked, as well as skills that reduce incoming damage need to be considered.  The numbers for the new banner are still not confirmed in-game.

 

 

Yep buddy tech3 now is the best dung for pal or astral lab, with cd 35 sec we have 70% damage lose, well done aigrind, (mmm fisting, I love that, do that again, don’t stop , do you like what you see). but on any another dang pal being shit. Lmao, we all need paladins lab dealers or technopolis?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Good points

 

-banner now deal the same dmg on all mobs

- light aura have good looking animation

-can self cast his shield

- inner forces now work a bit faster

 

Bad points

 

-Banner is ridiculously weak 

- light aura now mess up the energy reg For nothing but just the same effect (no buff, no effect added) 

-Again the shield works alone, without support from other skills

-inner forces still reduce only 2 - 3% You will never notice any reduction in the damage you receive 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Gladiator when you tested the new banner dmg, was it

- with the same amount of magic dmg (900)

or

- with the same equipment (so more than 900 magic dmg if using 2h weapon, which I believe you are using to reach that amount)

 

and thanks for testing

Link to comment
Share on other sites

40 minutes ago, Pecleb said:

@Gladiator when you tested the new banner dmg, was it

- with the same amount of magic dmg (900)

or

- with the same equipment (so more than 900 magic dmg if using 2h weapon, which I believe you are using to reach that amount)

 

and thanks for testing

The 900 is just an arbitrary number that represents the average magic of 2handed palas. I tested with multiple values of magic, it was always coming down to around 50% of the magic.

Don't forget that Banner buffs its own damage as well at 4/4 by 25% as long as the debuff is not resisted, so 40% + (25%*40%), thus the 50%.

Edited by Gladiator
Link to comment
Share on other sites

image.thumb.png.2bd5b0dd9ff2ff90faa4f62722e21895.png

 

Updated the table of the new banner to show its potential in PvE.

However, keep in mind for example that you need 10 monsters constantly during the entire 12 seconds of banner activity to gain the 27k damage. 

That is different to the old banner where it didn't matter how many mobs are affected, it will steal yield about the same amount of damage in total.

You just have to keep that in mind and change your playstyle with it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

В 22.12.2021 в 17:56, Gladiator сказал:

image.thumb.png.2bd5b0dd9ff2ff90faa4f62722e21895.png

 

Updated the table of the new banner to show its potential in PvE.

However, keep in mind for example that you need 10 monsters constantly during the entire 12 seconds of banner activity to gain the 27k damage. 

That is different to the old banner where it didn't matter how many mobs are affected, it will steal yield about the same amount of damage in total.

You just have to keep that in mind and change your playstyle with it.

Bro can I ask you? Where you now find content with group of mobs 6+ To realize that?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, Hakon said:

Bro can I ask you? Where you now find content with group of mobs 6+ To realize that?

Anywhere in t3-t5 really, lots of mobs everywhere. Dungeons included.

Edited by Raislin
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 часов назад, Raislin сказал:

Anywhere in t3-t5 really, lots of mobs everywhere. Dungeons included.

Yep buddy only there it’s good but all other dung is bad , because rb have no mobs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

They should remove the stun from "harads call" and add it to the "sun seal" Then remove the healing effect because it is useless, and that works with physical damage. 

Dmg and stun time increased per level

(2.5 stun base + 0.5 per level) 

So it will make sense to use points is this skill, and legion gonna stop complain because "insane" aoe stun. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...