Improvement suggestion for the death knight

[AntraxXL 19]

-> dk's abilities themselves are good, but need an update.
That said, I suggest the following improvements:

-> Blood protection:
  - Increase buff time by 2s;
  - add a new effect:
    within the time the skill is active, each block will give 1 stack of
    protection, each stack will give an extra 2s on the duration of the skill's effect, maximum
    accumulations is 3.
  - Decrease the effect from 50% to 40%

 

Blood protection example (4/4): You used the skill, it will stay active for
10 seconds, within that time each time you block will give 1 pile of protection.
When the skill runs out, the stacks will be consumed and will extend the duration of the
skill depending on how many stacks you have.
  NOTE: Maximum stacks is 3 and only blocks for the first 10s will count stacks.

Dk doesn't have any abilities that benefit from BLOCKING, so I decided to raise the
duration of blood protection and put on a new effect that needs the BLOCK.

 

-> Shadow shield (wings):
  - Damage reduction calculation:

                                (MD/3) + PD
                                --------------
                                      37
 
                                 MD = Magic Defense
                                 PD = Physical Defense

    NOTE: Skills that increase defense (both types) of both guild and classes, not
    will be counted, neither consumables nor t5 talents. Only the defense of the equipment (which increases with the magnification
    location) runes and equipment bonuses (15% shield and Set coliseum for example) will be
    counted.

 

Example 1:

 

 

 

7215/3 + 13380    2405 + 13380    15785
   -------------- =  ------------      =  ----- = 426,62
          37                      37                   37

 

That was the most defense I got (No guild buff, as it won't be counted)
a total of 426 damage reduction. There are very few who reach this level, apart from this
assembly is pretty bad.

 

Example 2:

 

4763/3 + 8675    1587,66 + 8675    10262,67    
   ------------- =  --------------     =  -------- = 277
        37                       37                      37

 

These devices are full +7, to have a more real scenario, there was a total reduction of 277,
  which I think is good for +7.
For those who think nothing has changed, I made a test with my Character, the reduction increased by
102.

 

-> Secret reserves:
 - The skill will now heal a part of your maximum health over time:
   1/4 - Effect lasts 9s, heals every 3s and heals a total of 30% of maximum health.
   2/4 - Effect lasts 9s, heals every 3s and heals a total of 40% of maximum health.
   3/4 - Effect lasts 6s, heals every 2s and heals for a total of 60% of maximum health.
   4/4 - Effect lasts 4.5s, heals every 1.5s and heals a total of 80% of maximum health.
     NOTE: The skill activates when your health drops to 40%
                 The skill has a cooldown time of 1:40m

 Example (Reserves 4/4): Your character has 8000 hp. Your life went down to 3200 (40%)
 the effect activates already healing once, heals 1.5s after activated, 3s after activated and 4.5s
after activated. Ie healed 4 times. As the total healing is 80%(6400), each hit heals 20%
of maximum life, ie 1600 hp.
  Now reserves will depend on dk's hp, will heal faster and will heal more hp as well.

 Those were the changes I thought, of course it doesn't have to be 100% of what I put in here,
but i believe they are good changes.

 

Sorry for any errors, I used the translator.

[Ogull 421]

On 12/2/2021 at 6:06 PM, AntraxXL said:

-> Blood protection:
  - Increase buff time by 2s;
  - add a new effect:
    within the time the skill is active, each block will give 1 stack of
    protection, each stack will give an extra 2s on the duration of the skill's effect, maximum
    accumulations is 3.
  - Decrease the effect from 50% to 40%

 

Blood protection example (4/4): You used the skill, it will stay active for
10 seconds, within that time each time you block will give 1 pile of protection.
When the skill runs out, the stacks will be consumed and will extend the duration of the
skill depending on how many stacks you have.
  NOTE: Maximum stacks is 3 and only blocks for the first 10s will count stacks.

Dk doesn't have any abilities that benefit from BLOCKING, so I decided to raise the
duration of blood protection and put on a new effect that needs the BLOCK.

this is a really amazing suggestion! really well thought out! my problem with this skill besides the low duration is the fact that when activated i will block/parry most attacking during its time making the skill quite inefficient. a really nice way to buff the skill as well as incorporate a defensive stat into it and make it more "required" for dk. if someone manage to get 3 stack which is quite easy then you will get 16 seconds duration on the skill! with its cooldown being 22sec you could make it permaused with enough cooldown reduction

 

everything suggested here is really nice and a fresh take on the dk problem. really well done! 

Edited December 4, 2021 by Ogull

[AntraxXL 19]

40 minutes ago, Ogull said:

esta é uma sugestão realmente incrível! muito bem pensado! meu problema com esta habilidade além da baixa duração é o fato de que quando ativada eu irei bloquear / desviar a maioria dos ataques durante o seu tempo, tornando a habilidade bastante ineficiente. uma maneira realmente legal de melhorar a habilidade, bem como incorporar uma estatística defensiva a ela e torná-la mais "necessária" para o dk. se alguém conseguir 3 pilhas, o que é muito fácil, você terá 16 segundos de duração na habilidade! com seu tempo de resfriamento de 22 segundos, você poderia torná-lo permanente com redução de resfriamento suficiente

 

tudo sugerido aqui é muito bom e uma nova abordagem sobre o problema dk. muito bem feito! 

Thanks, the numbers might be a bit exaggerated, but I think this rework would be interesting for our Death Knight

43 minutes ago, Ogull said:

this is a really amazing suggestion! really well thought out! my problem with this skill besides the low duration is the fact that when activated i will block/parry most attacking during its time making the skill quite inefficient. a really nice way to buff the skill as well as incorporate a defensive stat into it and make it more "required" for dk. if someone manage to get 3 stack which is quite easy then you will get 16 seconds duration on the skill! with its cooldown being 22sec you could make it permaused with enough cooldown reduction

 

everything suggested here is really nice and a fresh take on the dk problem. really well done! 

What do you think of the reserve and shadow shield suggestions? maybe I exaggerated the numbers?

[Legix 85]

I support the suggestions, dk needs damage reduction, however, I disagree with your rework on blood protection, dk different from brb or wd does not use blocking, it doesn't make much sense for it to benefit from this parameter 

 

I would recommend that blood protection reduce damage based on the amount of hp left.

[Santa Claus 173]

Blood  protection would be better if it would make shield  up to % of dk hp

[Ogull 421]

23 hours ago, Legix said:

I support the suggestions, dk needs damage reduction, however, I disagree with your rework on blood protection, dk different from brb or wd does not use blocking, it doesn't make much sense for it to benefit from this parameter 

 

I would recommend that blood protection reduce damage based on the amount of hp left.

are you serious??? dk is a tank as much as any other tank as well as a class that wield a shield, ofc he uses block.

by your logic before stone skin was buffed it didnt make sense for a barbarian to build block cuz he didnt have a skill that benefit from it

 

paladin already has a skill that reduce damage based on amount of hp left "Inner Force" and its the worst skill the class have.

[Legix 85]

1 hour ago, Ogull said:

are you serious??? dk is a tank as much as any other tank as well as a class that wield a shield, ofc he uses block.

by your logic before stone skin was buffed it didnt make sense for a barbarian to build block cuz he didnt have a skill that benefit from it

 

paladin already has a skill that reduce damage based on amount of hp left "Inner Force" and its the worst skill the class have.

All tanks don't necessarily need to block, it would be annoying if all tanks used the same type of equipment, dk is currently more like an off-tank, and I believe this should be your role, as well as the paladin.

 

Obviously, I'm more than aware that there are dks that use block, but there are also those that don't, the dk can be mounted in different ways, so this change would not be beneficial for the class as a whole.

 

As I said, the shield based on the amount of life lost or some other suggestion that doesn't make the skill depend on some specific parameter would be more viable.

[AntraxXL 19]

6 hours ago, Legix said:

Todos os tanks não precisam necessariamente bloquear, seria irritante se todos os tanks usassem o mesmo tipo de equipamento, dk atualmente é mais como um off-tank, e acredito que esse deve ser o seu papel, assim como o paladino.

 

Obviamente, estou mais do que ciente de que existem dks que usam block, mas também existem aqueles que não usam, o dk pode ser montado de maneiras diferentes, então essa mudança não seria benéfica para a classe como um todo.

 

Como eu disse, o escudo baseado na quantidade de vidas perdidas ou alguma outra sugestão que não faça a habilidade depender de algum parâmetro específico seria mais viável.

But death knight players are complaining about the dk's tanking ability. The dk is still a tank. The paladin is a tank/support, while the dk is a tank or damager. His damager build (magic mainly) is already strong with the change from the steel hurricane and the new talent. And let's face it, dk doesn't play a damager role as well as the paladin does support, especially with better class options like chieftain and physical charmer. I still think his main role is tank. The paladin doesn't have abilities that use blocking doesn't say anything, as he has health-based healing and life-based shield. That is, he would just copy what the paladin already has in dk, other than that the chief already has damage reduction based on lost life. So I still think this change would be very good for most dks. The latest updates have focused on the damager part of dk, it's time to stick with the tank part.

[Legix 85]

3 hours ago, AntraxXL said:

But death knight players are complaining about the dk's tanking ability. The dk is still a tank. The paladin is a tank/support, while the dk is a tank or damager. His damager build (magic mainly) is already strong with the change from the steel hurricane and the new talent. And let's face it, dk doesn't play a damager role as well as the paladin does support, especially with better class options like chieftain and physical charmer. I still think his main role is tank. The paladin doesn't have abilities that use blocking doesn't say anything, as he has health-based healing and life-based shield. That is, he would just copy what the paladin already has in dk, other than that the chief already has damage reduction based on lost life. So I still think this change would be very good for most dks. The latest updates have focused on the damager part of dk, it's time to stick with the tank part.

Yes, the dk really needs a viable defensive skill, however nothing in it should be based on the "block" parameter, limiting the skill to a parameter that most dks don't use is a really bad idea.

 

As I said, the skill can be based on the amount of hp, on stealing life, on parameters that every dk uses, or based in nothing is a option too...

 

[AntraxXL 19]

9 hours ago, Legix said:

Sim, o dk realmente precisa de uma habilidade defensiva viável, porém nada nele deve ser baseado no parâmetro "bloquear", limitar a habilidade a um parâmetro que a maioria dos dks não usa é uma idéia realmente ruim.

 

Como eu disse, a habilidade pode ser baseada na quantidade de hp, em roubar vida, em parâmetros que todo dk usa, ou baseada em nada também é uma opção ...

 

Look, I don't know which server you're from, but on mine, most of the dks I've seen are block tanks. Vampirism is not a parameter for a tank in my opinion, especially when it comes to tanks, who take control all the time. Life-based reduction the chief, paladin and barbarian already have. Using the steal life parameter for reduction is basically forcing all dks to put on vampirism, which isn't cheap and easy to get. And the skill would still be useful for the other dks (which according to you are the majority) 10s at 40% reduction doesn't seem bad to me. Tank build that is lagging behind, I like dk as a tank and I don't have gold to build a damager build and I don't even want to.

[Ogull 421]

10 hours ago, Legix said:

Yes, the dk really needs a viable defensive skill, however nothing in it should be based on the "block" parameter, limiting the skill to a parameter that most dks don't use is a really bad idea.

 

As I said, the skill can be based on the amount of hp, on stealing life, on parameters that every dk uses, or based in nothing is a option too...

 

i really don't know from which point you are talking... beside maybe magic damage based dks(who use 2handed weapons). virtually all dks use block. as long as its a class that wield a shield. its without a doubt a class that will use block, its the main parameter for tank/defensive class both PvP and PvE

 

the suggestion didn't limit the skill to block parameter but allowed the skill to be further improved by it.

Edited December 6, 2021 by Ogull

[Legix 85]

2 hours ago, AntraxXL said:

Look, I don't know which server you're from, but on mine, most of the dks I've seen are block tanks. Vampirism is not a parameter for a tank in my opinion, especially when it comes to tanks, who take control all the time. Life-based reduction the chief, paladin and barbarian already have. Using the steal life parameter for reduction is basically forcing all dks to put on vampirism, which isn't cheap and easy to get. And the skill would still be useful for the other dks (which according to you are the majority) 10s at 40% reduction doesn't seem bad to me. Tank build that is lagging behind, I like dk as a tank and I don't have gold to build a damager build and I don't even want to.

I'm from tourmaline, and in it I see more dks with magic rings and even some with physical ones, rarely one with block, but like I said, it wouldn't be viable for the skill to benefit from blocking, as it wouldn't really be a buff for most dks.

 

As for vampirism, apparently this is the main attribute of dk, it perfectly matches his style of "death knight" and he even has a skill that increases this parameter, but you're right in the fact that it's a very expensive parameter , and as you already know, dk today totally depends on vampirism to heal itself, after all, secret reserves only save you once in battle.

 

But again: The block is not a parameter that every dk uses, unlike a brb or a wd where all players use block, the dk is more variable depending on the person's playing style.

2 hours ago, Ogull said:

i really don't know from which point you are talking... beside maybe magic damage based dks(who use 2handed weapons). virtually all dks use block. as long as its a class that wield a shield. its without a doubt a class that will use block, its the main parameter for tank/defensive class both PvP and PvE

 

the suggestion didn't limit the skill to block parameter but allowed the skill to be further improved by it.

I hope you understand what I mean, not every dk uses blocking, whether it's a 2-handed or a one-handed weapon, dk has good potential with his magic damage, and it's with this damage that he can stay alive without support of a healer, there's no need for every tank to block, it's even quite boring, the dk style is more "destructive", it's a death knight, it's a completely different class than wd and brb, obviously I'm not implying that the dk should have more damage, but have a dynamic skill with damage reduction or even damage ignore just like your basic skill.

 

I think it would be nice if blood protection or saturation became a permanent buff skill with an aura at the dk's feet, just like the other classes have theirs.

[AntraxXL 19]

20 hours ago, Legix said:

Eu sou de turmalina, e nele vejo mais dks com anéis mágicos e até mesmo alguns com anéis físicos, raramente um com bloqueio, mas como eu disse, não seria viável para a habilidade se beneficiar do bloqueio, como não seria realmente não é um lustre para a maioria dos dks.

 

Quanto ao vampirismo, aparentemente este é o principal atributo do dk, ele combina perfeitamente com seu estilo de "cavaleiro da morte" e ele ainda tem uma habilidade que aumenta esse parâmetro, mas você está certo no fato de que é um parâmetro muito caro, e como você já sabe, dk hoje depende totalmente do vampirismo para se curar, afinal, as reservas secretas só salvam você uma vez na batalha.

 

Mas, novamente: o bloco não é um parâmetro que todo dk usa, ao contrário de um brb ou um wd onde todos os jogadores usam o bloco, o dk é mais variável dependendo do estilo de jogo da pessoa.

Espero que você entenda o que quero dizer, nem todo dk usa bloqueio, seja uma arma de 2 ou uma mão, dk tem um bom potencial com seu dano mágico, e é com esse dano que ele pode permanecer vivo sem o suporte de um curandeiro, não há necessidade de bloquear todos os tanques, é até muito chato, o estilo dk é mais "destrutivo", é um cavaleiro da morte, é uma classe completamente diferente de wd e brb, obviamente não estou sugerindo que o dk deveria tem mais dano, mas tem uma habilidade dinâmica com redução de dano ou até mesmo ignora o dano como sua habilidade básica.

 

Eu acho que seria bom se a proteção de sangue ou saturação se tornasse uma habilidade de buff permanente com uma aura nos pés do dk, assim como as outras classes têm os seus.

If they left these skills with constant consumption I wouldn't complain, but I think it's unlikely. They won't "give" 25% vampirism in a constant consumption skill, the skill not being strong is better because players will have to invest with vampirism runes and gear (company's point of view in my view). Blood protection with constant consumption I also think it will roll, first that wd already has a skill like that and it still loses damage, I doubt they will change the skill to constant consumption without any penalty. Again I say, as the friend above said, the ability to use block doesn't make her limited by him, it makes her improve by him and would really help dks with tank builds that don't use vampirism like me.

[Legix 85]

17 minutes ago, AntraxXL said:

If they left these skills with constant consumption I wouldn't complain, but I think it's unlikely. They won't "give" 25% vampirism in a constant consumption skill, the skill not being strong is better because players will have to invest with vampirism runes and gear (company's point of view in my view). Blood protection with constant consumption I also think it will roll, first that wd already has a skill like that and it still loses damage, I doubt they will change the skill to constant consumption without any penalty. Again I say, as the friend above said, the ability to use block doesn't make her limited by him, it makes her improve by him and would really help dks with tank builds that don't use vampirism like me.

Clearly if they were turned into permanent skills, they would have to be nerfed, the saturation for example would have to drop to 15%, something like that.

 

Just as this change in blood protection would be useful for you, it wouldn't be the same for other dks, as I said above, unlike brb and wd where all your users use block, it's not the same with dk, none dk skill takes advantage of some specific parameter, and it's great as there are other types of dk.

 

Again: Any skill buff that doesn't involve a specific parameter is much more viable for everyone.

[AntraxXL 19]

2 hours ago, Legix said:

É claro que se fossem transformados em habilidades permanentes, eles teriam que ser nerfados, a saturação por exemplo teria que cair para 15%, algo assim.

 

Assim como essa mudança na proteção de sangue seria útil para você, não seria a mesma para outros dks, como eu disse acima, ao contrário de brb e wd onde todos os seus usuários usam block, não é o mesmo com dk, nenhuma habilidade dk tira proveito de algum parâmetro específico, e é ótimo porque existem outros tipos de dk.

 

Novamente: qualquer buff de habilidade que não envolva um parâmetro específico é muito mais viável para todos.

Using that same logic, changing the saturation couldn't either, since there are many dks that don't use vampirism like me. Paladin is not a parameter to move dk, paladin has 2 good healing skills and the strongest shield in the game, dk has what? damage? Chief, Charmer and Hunter do much more damage. For vampirism to work, it has to have damage, my build for example is completely focused on defensive skills. As much as vampirism is a defensive parameter, it relies on offensive statuses to function. In short, hardly a change will be useful for everyone, at least when it comes to dk, and the build that needs the most buff is the tank build.

[Legix 85]

1 hour ago, AntraxXL said:

Using that same logic, changing the saturation couldn't either, since there are many dks that don't use vampirism like me. Paladin is not a parameter to move dk, paladin has 2 good healing skills and the strongest shield in the game, dk has what? damage? Chief, Charmer and Hunter do much more damage. For vampirism to work, it has to have damage, my build for example is completely focused on defensive skills. As much as vampirism is a defensive parameter, it relies on offensive statuses to function. In short, hardly a change will be useful for everyone, at least when it comes to dk, and the build that needs the most buff is the tank build.

you don't need vampirism to use saturation, it would be useful anyway, and there's no denying that it's a skill that combines with dk, it just needs a rework because the 10% recoil hurts, some magic dks even not use the skill.

 

The dk needs defense in general, it's not just in his build as a full tank, he's a tank with 0% damage reduction, a chief can tank more than him solo.

[AntraxXL 19]

48 minutes ago, Legix said:

você não precisa de vampirismo para usar saturação, seria útil de qualquer maneira, e não há como negar que é uma habilidade que combina com dk, só precisa de um retrabalho porque o recuo de 10% dói, alguns dks mágicos até não usam a habilidade.

 

O dk precisa de defesa em geral, não é apenas em sua construção como um tanque cheio, ele é um tanque com 0% de redução de dano, um chefe pode tankar mais do que sozinho.

But you would have to spend 3 points on saturation and more points on damage skill, as I said before, vampirism alone doesn't work well, it has to deal damage in order to heal well. If you level up the saturation, you would have to level up some skill and damage as well and that doesn't solve the dk damage reduction problem. I say again, blood protection being improved by the blocking parameter doesn't make it bad for other buildings, if using the suggestion I made, 40% damage reduction for 10s is too little for you?

51 minutes ago, Legix said:

você não precisa de vampirismo para usar saturação, seria útil de qualquer maneira, e não há como negar que é uma habilidade que combina com dk, só precisa de um retrabalho porque o recuo de 10% dói, alguns dks mágicos até não usam a habilidade.

 

O dk precisa de defesa em geral, não é apenas em sua construção como um tanque cheio, ele é um tanque com 0% de redução de dano, um chefe pode tankar mais do que sozinho.

And nothing more normal for a tank facing build to hold more damage than a damage facing build.

What is your suggestion to change blood protection then? since you are against it using the Blocking parameter.

[Legix 85]

1 hour ago, AntraxXL said:

But you would have to spend 3 points on saturation and more points on damage skill, as I said before, vampirism alone doesn't work well, it has to deal damage in order to heal well. If you level up the saturation, you would have to level up some skill and damage as well and that doesn't solve the dk damage reduction problem. I say again, blood protection being improved by the blocking parameter doesn't make it bad for other buildings, if using the suggestion I made, 40% damage reduction for 10s is too little for you?

And nothing more normal for a tank facing build to hold more damage than a damage facing build.

What is your suggestion to change blood protection then? since you are against it using the Blocking parameter.

Unlike other tanks, dk doesn't have viable ways to heal itself, turning saturation into a consumption skill would be a good start, remembering that secret reserves should also be reworked, which was a reason for complaints in the past, now turned into garbage due to your amazing 2m cd.

 

You will indeed have points to invest in attack, 4/4 saturation (heal), 4/4 blood protection (buff) and 4/4 attack skill (damage). A magic dk for example usually invests in 4/4 saturation (heal), 4/4 aura (buff) and 4/4 curse (damage). By using blocking gear, you will take much less damage than magic dk, requiring less healing.

 

I've seen suggestions like: reduce damage during battle, for example, every second that passes in battle, blood protection will reduce damage up to a certain limit.

[AntraxXL 19]

1 hour ago, Legix said:

Ao contrário de outros tanques, o dk não possui formas viáveis de se curar, transformar a saturação em uma habilidade de consumo seria um bom começo, lembrando que as reservas secretas também deveriam ser retrabalhadas, o que era motivo de reclamações no passado, agora virou lixo devido ao seu incrível cd de 2m.

 

Você realmente terá pontos para investir em ataque, 4/4 de saturação (cura), 4/4 de proteção contra sangue (buff) e 4/4 de habilidade de ataque (dano). Um dk mágico, por exemplo, normalmente investe em 4/4 de saturação (cura), 4/4 de aura (buff) e 4/4 de maldição (dano). Usando equipamento de bloqueio, você sofrerá muito menos dano do que dano mágico, exigindo menos cura.

 

Já vi sugestões como: reduza o dano durante a batalha, por exemplo, a cada segundo que passa na batalha, a proteção contra sangue vai reduzir o dano até um certo limite.

But dk tank needs to level aggression in area, otherwise the good will turn on damagers. This suggestion is interesting, I just don't think it would be very helpful in extreme situations.

[Legix 85]

15 minutes ago, AntraxXL said:

But dk tank needs to level aggression in area, otherwise the good will turn on damagers. This suggestion is interesting, I just don't think it would be very helpful in extreme situations.

In my dk I use the 1/4 death call and the 3/4 basic aggro skill, and I never had problems because most lures are connected, if I use aggro on a single monster in the lure, this aggro affects all the others, but really if you are in pt for example with a strong chief, he will undoubtedly generate more aggro than you, however as the monsters in groups in the dgs are connected to each other, I never had problems with this.

The guy who gave this suggestion said it would be cool if dk got stronger in the heat of battle