Arthas 388 Posted October 20, 2021 Share Posted October 20, 2021 (edited) THE ART OF WAR I've always had the curiosity to talk to players of all classes and ask them how they felt what was their classe's state , if it needed buffs , nerfs or anything really. And obviously i know that their opinions would certainly have a lot of bias , considering that they would certainly want their class to be as strong as possible , so in this research i tried talking to as many players as possible of each class (total of around 130 players from both factions) and ask them the following questions : How would you rank your class at PVP ? Ranging from F, E ,D, C, B , A ,S F being the Weaker and S the stronger Why? What do you think should be done to improve it? How would you rank your class at PVE ? Ranging from F, E ,D, C, B , A ,S F being the Weaker and S the stronger Why? What do you think should be done to improve it? PS.: All the data in the following TIERLISTS is based on other players experiences and opinions. Some of those rank higher then others because are more versatile and not only "one trick pony". PS2.: Best to Worst on TIERLISTS goes from LEFT to RIGHT. So if in RANK A theres 3 classes "BD" "ROGUE" "DRUID" it means that BD is the best RANK A , followed by rogue and then druid. PS3.: Expert skills such as “Magic Resistance” and “Magic Extension” were not taken into consideration because those would obviously increase any classes power by quite a lot and are not part of any class skillset. PS4.: The game is not balanced around players with +10 Greatness Set with 10+ passive expert skills, its balanced around the usual +6-7 player 1) ARENA Spoiler Ps.: 1v1s are not taken into consideration , only arena. And arena is all about skills synergy and teamwork. RANK S "The carriers" : Charmer : Absolutely the king above all others at this moment , dog's damage scales ridiculously well , making them not only strong dmg wise , but also serve as a wall that protects the charmer and his teammates. Paladin : Paladins have the strongest support kit of all , incredibly high support power , shield + healing, and great AoE control. Those two are the only classes that can literally carry the entire team on their back RANK A : Blade Dancer : A complete skill set , resistance , A LOT OF DAMAGE , good defense , movement , they have it all. Rogue : They lack any AOE damage and control (0/10 actually terrible) , but excel in low numbers PvP , with kick in the back being one of the most broken skills in the game atm. Would be S tier if not for his lack of AOE utility. Shaman and Druid : Complete healers, a lot of self sustain and support , just great teamates to have around to help you in battle at all times. RANK B : Warlock : The best control class in the game, and if not for their ridiculously low defensive power , they would certainly be S tier. But with this low defensive power, if the enemy reachs you, you are dead , and theres no such a thing as "full stun" nowadays, there will always be a small window of time that the enemy will get rid of your shackles and kick you in the face. Chieftain : High Burst damage , good support , zero control , and good mobility , decent defensive power (Good while on Rugged Hide and bad when its off) Not ranked higher because it depends on other people's stuns to kill Barbarian : A rock. It won't die, but won't kill you either. Arena are team compositions , so its all about helping each other. Barbarians have low control power , and subpar damage, so they can't really help the team with anything other then just staying alive. But oh boy, are they hard to kill Templar : subpar damage, low defensive power, A LOT OF ANNOYING STUNS. It will make your time in the arena harder, thats for sure. Hunter : Good control power , really good damage, low defensive power. Mage : High control , good defensive power , lacks single target damage (which is pretty important for a dps at the arena) Ranger : Decent control , A LOT OF DAMAGE , subpar defensive power RANK C : Priest : High support , low control , lacks a skill to help him deal with enemies that resist him. Necro : Medium support , decent control (will be resisted often and killed) RANK D : Seeker : A lot of damage , subpar control , low defensive power. RANK E : Death Knight : A tank that cannot withstand damage , it shouldn't be possible right? It is ,and dks can prove it to you. Almost no mobility , subpar defensive power and decent damage. RANK F: Warden : Good defensive power ,terrible anything else. 2) GVG Spoiler PS.: I tried taking every possible useful information and using here. I've taken into consideration Full on Fights of 100x100 but also situational utility , like taking down Pilons and bosses inside GvGs. RANK S "The carriers" : Shaman : Totems are incredibly strong for that specific content of the game. Work incredibly well with the meta Paladin : Paladins have the strongest support kit of all , incredibly high support power. Sacred Shield + Fetters of Justice + Healing is an amazing combo Those two are the only classes that have that much of a "carry potential" RANK A : Templar : Could be considered a "one trick pony" but their trick (Reverse Flow) is a hell of a trick. It defines the meta and completely forces the opponent to play a whole different formation Chieftain : High AoE damage , good defensive power and has a "mixed build" that works pretty well when dealing with Guild's Magic Globe Warlock : The best control class in the game, and if not for their ridiculously low defensive power , they would certainly be S tier. But with this low defensive power, when 100x100 happens theres a HUGE chance you'll be the first to go down. Mage : High AOE control , good defensive power , high AOE damage RANK B : Seeker : SITUATIONAL. But is incredibly useful when the time comes. The best offensive class to deal with pilons at Mermen's Trial. Can score really fast on Invasion of Chaos and can take down bosses in seconds. Ranger : High AoE damage , subpar defensive power Hunter : High AoE damage , subpar defensive power , decent traps Necro : One trick pony ( Fateful Connection), but it is really useful. Priest : AoE decent healing skill , and AoE subpar damage ability Rogue : SITUATIONAL. But is incredibly useful when the time comes. The best legion offensive class to deal with pilons at Mermen's Trial. RANK C : Barbarian : Roar is a pretty good skill. But the class has no AoE damage , no AoE control , so its pretty much that. Charmer : Useful to defend pilons on Mermen's Trial and to score on Invasion of Chaos because of its broken dogs. On 100x100 is pretty useless, as his pets will be insta deleted. Blade Dancer : Has decent single target damage , so it can be a weaker version of a GvG seeker , but way tankier. RANK D : Druid : Has decent support skills and a Tornado that can be useful on high scale PvP RANK E : Death Knight : If focused on Magical Power , will be able to deal decent AoE damage RANK F: Warden : Bad. 3) PVE Spoiler PS.: No support or Tank class is really high ranked simply because both are getting obsolete by the day. As characters get stronger their need of support decreases. (Vampirism needs nerfing) RANK S "Godlike" : Seeker : I mean , i guess that was a given , nothing compares to seekers in PVE , their damage scales offcharts. RANK A : Hunter : Hunter has A LOT OF SINGLE TARGET DAMAGE , good AoE damage , good control and pretty bad defensive power. RANK B : Ranger : High damage , decent defensive power , good control power. Chieftain : Jack of ALMOST all trades. They can run faster, deal a lot of AoE damage , tank a considerable amount of damage , BUT , their single targer dps is terrible. Rogue : High single target damage , and useful in a lot of situations because of Invisibility. Mage : High AoE damage , high AoE control , good defensive power Blade Dancer : One of the best single target dmg , no AoE damage , no AoE control. RANK C : Priest : Good Offensive support skill , good support overall , can revive. Necro : Good support overall , can revive Warlock : Really strong AoE control , subpar damage for a dps and 0 defensive power. Paladin : The best tank because it can tank and support (tho not incredibly well at the same time obv) Tanks are not that important anymore , most content can be done without them , especially event dungeons. Barbarian : As a tank , it does what it is supposed to , it can take A LOT OF DAMAGE. Tanks are not that important anymore , most content can be done without them , especially event dungeons. Charmer : Dogs have pretty good Damage and CC at the same time RANK D : Death Knight : A subpar tank , but can atleast be versatile and deal some damage. Tanks are not that important anymore , most content can be done without them , especially event dungeons. Templar : Low damage , low defensive power , decent support , and A LOT OF CONTROL. Warden : A class that can only take damage , in a time that tanks are not needed. Tanks are not that important anymore , most content can be done without them , especially event dungeons. RANK E : Shaman : Has high support , but that is something that noone seeks anymore , what is useful is offensive support + revive. Subpar offensive support. RANK F: Druid : as high support , but that is something that noone seeks anymore , what is useful is offensive support + revive , and Druids have neither. 4)SUGGESTIONS Spoiler PvP NOWADAYS Spoiler DAMAGE Spoiler DEFENSE Spoiler SUPPORT Spoiler CONTROL Spoiler SUGGESTIONS Spoiler DAMAGE Spoiler DEFENSE Spoiler SUPPORT Spoiler CONTROL Spoiler PVE NOWADAYS Spoiler DAMAGE Spoiler DEFENSE Spoiler SUPPORT Spoiler CONTROL Spoiler SUGGESTIONS Spoiler DAMAGE Spoiler DEFENSE Spoiler SUPPORT Spoiler CONTROL Spoiler Ps1.: Content here shouldn't just be taken to face value , this is the opinion of 120+ players with a touch of my own , and not in any way "absolute". Ps2.: I've had help of a lot of people from both factions and would like to thank them all : In special members of my guild CRIMSON (Warlord , Iamcrazy , Miraii , Zettsul and many others) and my friend's guild BANANEIROS (Beshanana , Lilypriest , araujonana and many others). I've had a lot of fun making this and hope you guys enjoy it as i did. I'm eager to hear all opinions , but please lets be civilized , lets show our opinions with due respect. DAY 1 CHANGES : Chieftain Arena Rating : Reconsidered after a lot of feedback from playerbase. Ty @TheWho for videofootage and data More to come... Lets all hope that the next Class Balance update at the end of the year brings the game that we love so dearly to a better state. Edited October 22, 2021 by Arthas King Death, Higgings, Lustz and 6 others 4 2 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zheif 4 Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 I neither agree nor disagree, quite the contrary, I think it is acceptable. Speedom and Arthas 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alone Zzzz 20 Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 Admirable your creation in your posts, both in beauty and information and nothing better than asking each player who knows their own class. have my support!! ^^ Filipe Ramon 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasuke Coldkill 1 Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 Buff dmg pve of Rogue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Death 59 Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 I really liked your post. Congratulations, very well explained adding content to the community. I agree with 90% off the content, however, I didn't see any relevant archers to give an opinion, and I believe thiss caused you to misunderstand thesee. I've played ranger for a long time, as well as Hunter, and I consider to have some experience Hunter is the only class with damage reduction to the target (sapping shot) and damage reduction received, in addition to the dodge increase (the blessing of the mointains) Besides that we can assume that control is a defense mode, because all we cant attack while we're being controlled, and this class has great controls. If u say "don't have enough skill points" Anyway the skill is there, you only need to distribute points, or even use 1/4. This makes the class versatile in PvP. Its only problem is the AoE damage, as it has skills that if you block or dodge, it will not give sequence of attacks. As for the ranger, I made a post in Portuguese talking all about it, but in resume AoE damage is bleed, which makes only auxiliary damage in GvG, and defense as dodge, in practice only works against healers because they don't have good accuracy parameters. Take care Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucstriker 61 Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 On 10/19/2021 at 11:57 PM, Arthas said: THE ART OF WAR I've always had the curiosity to talk to players of all classes and ask them how they felt what was their classe's state , if it needed buffs , nerfs or anything really. And obviously i know that their opinions would certainly have a lot of bias , considering that they would certainly want their class to be as strong as possible , so in this research i tried talking to as many players as possible of each class (total of around 130 players from both factions) and ask them the following questions : How would you rank your class at PVP ? Ranging from F, E ,D, C, B , A ,S F being the Weaker and S the stronger Why? What do you think should be done to improve it? How would you rank your class at PVE ? Ranging from F, E ,D, C, B , A ,S F being the Weaker and S the stronger Why? What do you think should be done to improve it? PS.: All the data in the following TIERLISTS is based on other players experiences and opinions. Some of those rank higher then others because are more versatile and not only "one trick pony". PS2.: Best to Worst on TIERLISTS goes from LEFT to RIGHT. So if in RANK A theres 3 classes "BD" "ROGUE" "DRUID" it means that BD is the best RANK A , followed by rogue and then druid. PS3.: Expert skills such as “Magic Resistance” and “Magic Extension” were not taken into consideration because those would obviously increase any classes power by quite a lot and are not part of any class skillset. PS4.: The game is not balanced around players with +10 Greatness Set with 10+ passive expert skills, its balanced around the usual +6-7 player 1) ARENA Reveal hidden contents Ps.: 1v1s are not taken into consideration , only arena. And arena is all about skills synergy and teamwork. RANK S "The carriers" : Charmer : Absolutely the king above all others at this moment , dog's damage scales ridiculously well , making them not only strong dmg wise , but also serve as a wall that protects the charmer and his teammates. Paladin : Paladins have the strongest support kit of all , incredibly high support power , shield + healing, and great AoE control. Those two are the only classes that can literally carry the entire team on their back RANK A : Blade Dancer : A complete skill set , resistance , A LOT OF DAMAGE , good defense , movement , they have it all. Rogue : They lack any AOE damage and control (0/10 actually terrible) , but excel in low numbers PvP , with kick in the back being one of the most broken skills in the game atm. Would be S tier if not for his lack of AOE utility. Shaman and Druid : Complete healers, a lot of self sustain and support , just great teamates to have around to help you in battle at all times. RANK B : Warlock : The best control class in the game, and if not for their ridiculously low defensive power , they would certainly be S tier. But with this low defensive power, if the enemy reachs you, you are dead , and theres no such a thing as "full stun" nowadays, there will always be a small window of time that the enemy will get rid of your shackles and kick you in the face. Barbarian : A rock. It won't die, but won't kill you either. Arena are team compositions , so its all about helping each other. Barbarians have low control power , and subpar damage, so they can't really help the team with anything other then just staying alive. But oh boy, are they hard to kill Templar : subpar damage, low defensive power, A LOT OF ANNOYING STUNS. It will make your time in the arena harder, thats for sure. Hunter : Good control power , really good damage, low defensive power. Mage : High control , good defensive power , lacks single target damage (which is pretty important for a dps at the arena) Ranger : Decent control , A LOT OF DAMAGE , decent defensive power (evades quite a lot) RANK C : Priest : High support , low control , lacks a skill to help him deal with enemies that resist him. Necro : Medium support , decent control (will be resisted often and killed) RANK D : Death Knight : A tank that cannot withstand damage , it shouldn't be possible right? It is ,and dks can prove it to you. Almost no mobility , subpar defensive power and decent damage. Seeker : A lot of damage , subpar control , low defensive power. RANK E : Chieftain : Subpar damage (if full physical does have a burst combo , but not enough to 1shot any strong player) , good support power , and 0 ,yes you heard it right people, 0 CONTROL. Its bad . RANK F: Warden : Good defensive power ,terrible anything else. 2) GVG Reveal hidden contents PS.: I tried taking every possible useful information and using here. I've taken into consideration Full on Fights of 100x100 but also situational utility , like taking down Pilons and bosses inside GvGs. RANK S "The carriers" : Shaman : Totems are incredibly strong for that specific content of the game. Work incredibly well with the meta Paladin : Paladins have the strongest support kit of all , incredibly high support power. Sacred Shield + Fetters of Justice + Healing is an amazing combo Those two are the only classes that have that much of a "carry potential" RANK A : Templar : Could be considered a "one trick pony" but their trick (Reverse Flow) is a hell of a trick. It defines the meta and completely forces the opponent to play a whole different formation Chieftain : High AoE damage , good defensive power and has a "mixed build" that works pretty well when dealing with Guild's Magic Globe Warlock : The best control class in the game, and if not for their ridiculously low defensive power , they would certainly be S tier. But with this low defensive power, when 100x100 happens theres a HUGE chance you'll be the first to go down. Mage : High AOE control , good defensive power , high AOE damage RANK B : Seeker : SITUATIONAL. But is incredibly useful when the time comes. The best offensive class to deal with pilons at Mermen's Trial. Can score really fast on Invasion of Chaos and can take down bosses in seconds. Ranger : High AoE damage , decent defensive power Hunter : High AoE damage , subpar defensive power , decent traps Necro : One trick pony ( Fateful Connection), but it is really useful. Priest : AoE decent healing skill , and AoE subpar damage ability Rogue : SITUATIONAL. But is incredibly useful when the time comes. The best legion offensive class to deal with pilons at Mermen's Trial. RANK C : Barbarian : Roar is a pretty good skill. But the class has no AoE damage , no AoE control , so its pretty much that. Charmer : Useful to defend pilons on Mermen's Trial and to score on Invasion of Chaos because of its broken dogs. On 100x100 is pretty useless, as his pets will be insta deleted. Blade Dancer : Has decent single target damage , so it can be a weaker version of a GvG seeker , but way tankier. RANK D : Druid : Has decent support skills and a Tornado that can be useful on high scale PvP RANK E : Death Knight : If focused on Magical Power , will be able to deal decent AoE damage RANK F: Warden : Bad. 3) PVE Reveal hidden contents PS.: No support or Tank class is really high ranked simply because both are getting obsolete by the day. As characters get stronger their need of support decreases. (Vampirism needs nerfing) RANK S "Godlike" : Seeker : I mean , i guess that was a given , nothing compares to seekers in PVE , their damage scales offcharts. RANK A : Hunter : Hunter has A LOT OF SINGLE TARGET DAMAGE , good AoE damage , good control and pretty bad defensive power. RANK B : Ranger : High damage , decent defensive power (can evade a lot), good control power. Chieftain : Jack of ALMOST all trades. They can run faster, deal a lot of AoE damage , tank a considerable amount of damage , BUT , their single targer dps is terrible. Rogue : High single target damage , and useful in a lot of situations because of Invisibility. Mage : High AoE damage , high AoE control , good defensive power Blade Dancer : One of the best single target dmg , no AoE damage , no AoE control. RANK C : Priest : Good Offensive support skill , good support overall , can revive. Necro : Good support overall , can revive Warlock : Really strong AoE control , subpar damage for a dps and 0 defensive power. Paladin : The best tank because it can tank and support (tho not incredibly well at the same time obv) Tanks are not that important anymore , most content can be done without them , especially event dungeons. Barbarian : As a tank , it does what it is supposed to , it can take A LOT OF DAMAGE. Tanks are not that important anymore , most content can be done without them , especially event dungeons. Charmer : Dogs have pretty good Damage and CC at the same time RANK D : Death Knight : A subpar tank , but can atleast be versatile and deal some damage. Tanks are not that important anymore , most content can be done without them , especially event dungeons. Templar : Low damage , low defensive power , decent support , and A LOT OF CONTROL. Warden : A class that can only take damage , in a time that tanks are not needed. Tanks are not that important anymore , most content can be done without them , especially event dungeons. RANK E : Shaman : Has high support , but that is something that noone seeks anymore , what is useful is offensive support + revive. Subpar offensive support. RANK F: Druid : as high support , but that is something that noone seeks anymore , what is useful is offensive support + revive , and Druids have neither. 4)SUGGESTIONS Reveal hidden contents PvP NOWADAYS Reveal hidden contents DAMAGE Reveal hidden contents DEFENSE Reveal hidden contents SUPPORT Reveal hidden contents CONTROL Reveal hidden contents SUGGESTIONS Reveal hidden contents DAMAGE Reveal hidden contents DEFENSE Reveal hidden contents SUPPORT Reveal hidden contents CONTROL Reveal hidden contents PVE NOWADAYS Reveal hidden contents DAMAGE Reveal hidden contents DEFENSE Reveal hidden contents SUPPORT Reveal hidden contents CONTROL Reveal hidden contents SUGGESTIONS Reveal hidden contents DAMAGE Reveal hidden contents DEFENSE Reveal hidden contents SUPPORT Reveal hidden contents CONTROL Reveal hidden contents Ps1.: Content here shouldn't just be taken to face value , this is the opinion of 120+ players with a touch of my own , and not in any way "absolute". Ps2.: I've had help of a lot of people from both factions and would like to thank them all : In special members of my guild CRIMSON (Warlord , Iamcrazy , Miraii , Zettsul and many others) and my friend's guild BANANEIROS (Beshanana , Lilypriest , araujonana and many others). I've had a lot of fun making this and hope you guys enjoy it as i did. I'm eager to hear all opinions , but please lets be civilized , lets show our opinions with due respect. Lets all hope that the next Class Balance update at the end of the year brings the game that we love so dearly to a better state. Hello! I'm Paladin and I don't see it all. (Obviously I'm full +10 Greatness Set and full of rare books) But I don't see all that power for the charm and paladin to be classified as "rank S". To become a dangerous player in warspear, you have to invest a lot, and I don't see that in players (+6+7) I thought what is being posted here is wrong. Example: Paladin +7 with 6k life, the ability "sacred shield" would not save you in large amounts of damage in area, just because it does not have high defenses, since the game mode is in the "hype" of damage in area . Also for the charm, that its effectiveness is in 1x1 because they have advantages in creating several dogs. This goes for all classes, no amplification and its high defenses, the class has no resistance in combat. Private opinion: Warspear needs a lot of balance, but I see that the game mode is in big competitions (GvGs, Wars), but on the whole, I think if it's to take into account everything they say about the characters, they should rework all the characters and start from scratch, thus looking for a way to balance something they ask for. (I see that in the near future this will be necessary). I don't see a +7 paladin/charm being a threat to anyone, however the Warlock/Mage are much more aggressive because they have a lot of area control in GvG which is the focus of the current game, and the chief for being very strong and resistant in big competition matches. Fynn, Salazam, Geralti and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthas 388 Posted October 22, 2021 Author Share Posted October 22, 2021 (edited) 11 minutes ago, King Death said: I really liked your post. Congratulations, very well explained adding content to the community. I agree with 90% off the content, however, I didn't see any relevant archers to give an opinion, and I believe thiss caused you to misunderstand thesee. I've played ranger for a long time, as well as Hunter, and I consider to have some experience Hunter is the only class with damage reduction to the target (sapping shot) and damage reduction received, in addition to the dodge increase (the blessing of the mointains) Besides that we can assume that control is a defense mode, because all we cant attack while we're being controlled, and this class has great controls. If u say "don't have enough skill points" Anyway the skill is there, you only need to distribute points, or even use 1/4. This makes the class versatile in PvP. Its only problem is the AoE damage, as it has skills that if you block or dodge, it will not give sequence of attacks. As for the ranger, I made a post in Portuguese talking all about it, but in resume AoE damage is bleed, which makes only auxiliary damage in GvG, and defense as dodge, in practice only works against healers because they don't have good accuracy parameters. Take care I focused on the “optimal” builds , which force Hunter to focus on stuns. And i separated stuns from defense and support because if they were together it would be incredibly hard to explain their interactions. But i do agree that stuns do help in defensive power. As for Rangers AoE damage , i consider it to be good because in general cloth classes are the ones that can be incredibly annoying in 100x100 , ex.: Warlocks,Shamans,Mages,Priests , and those will be hit pretty hard by rangers. 5 minutes ago, Buckrudy said: Hello! I'm Paladin and I don't see it all. (Obviously I'm full +10 Greatness Set and full of rare books) But I don't see all that power for the charm and paladin to be classified as "rank S". To become a dangerous player in warspear, you have to invest a lot, and I don't see that in players (+6+7) I thought what is being posted here is wrong. Example: Paladin +7 with 6k life, the ability "sacred shield" would not save you in large amounts of damage in area, just because it does not have high defenses, since the game mode is in the "hype" of damage in area . Also for the charm, that its effectiveness is in 1x1 because they have advantages in creating several dogs. This goes for all classes, no amplification and its high defenses, the class has no resistance in combat. Private opinion: Warspear needs a lot of balance, but I see that the game mode is in big competitions (GvGs, Wars), but on the whole, I think if it's to take into account everything they say about the characters, they should rework all the characters and start from scratch, thus looking for a way to balance something they ask for. (I see that in the near future this will be necessary). I don't see a +7 paladin/charm being a threat to anyone, however the Warlock/Mage are much more aggressive because they have a lot of area control in GvG which is the focus of the current game, and the chief for being very strong and resistant in big competition matches. Paladins are S tier for their complete kit. They can tank a lot even at far from optimal amp , they have incredible support with its shield + healing. And when on 100v100 their stuns can literally hold everyone hostage . Watch most GvG videos and you’ll see what paladin’s combo : Sacred Shield + Fetters of Justice can do to a guild. As for charmers , Dog’s damage doesn’t seem to be scaling correctly , the class can pretty much deal the same damage of multiple players from other classes at the same time if stacked multiple dogs. Edited October 22, 2021 by Arthas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucstriker 61 Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 18 minutes ago, Arthas said: I focused on the “optimal” builds , which force Hunter to focus on stuns. And i separated stuns from defense and support because if they were together it would be incredibly hard to explain their interactions. But i do agree that stuns do help in defensive power. As for Rangers AoE damage , i consider it to be good because in general cloth classes are the ones that can be incredibly annoying in 100x100 , ex.: Warlocks,Shamans,Mages,Priests , and those will be hit pretty hard by rangers. Paladins are S tier for their complete kit. They can tank a lot even at far from optimal amp , they have incredible support with its shield + healing. And when on 100v100 their stuns can literally hold everyone hostage . Watch most GvG videos and you’ll see what paladin’s combo : Sacred Shield + Fetters of Justice can do to a guild. As for charmers , Dog’s damage doesn’t seem to be scaling correctly , the class can pretty much deal the same damage of multiple players from other classes at the same time if stacked multiple dogs. So far I haven't seen any video of several +7 paladins winning anything. If comparing by our server, and a specific guild, we have great well equipped and amplified paladins. In a general character, it has to be well equipped to be relevant. Heavy set 32 is at its peak and everyone who uses it has their resistances increased. The paladin's healing is not high compared to healers. After all, the paladin is a tank/support and is not even close to a shaman who heals practically everyone in his area. To do all this damage you are mentioned, you have to have at least 40x paladins added to the mages using ennoblement. That's why it has been so relevant in GvG/War Salazam and Fynn 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthas 388 Posted October 22, 2021 Author Share Posted October 22, 2021 Just now, Buckrudy said: So far I haven't seen any video of several +7 paladins winning anything. If comparing by our server, and a specific guild, we have great well equipped and amplified paladins. In a general character, it has to be well equipped to be relevant. Heavy set 32 is at its peak and everyone who uses it has their resistances increased. The paladin's healing is not high compared to healers. After all, the paladin is a tank/support and is not even close to a shaman who heals practically everyone in his area. To do all this damage you are mentioned, you have to have at least 40x paladins added to the mages using ennoblement. That's why it has been so relevant in GvG/War But every class if compared to specific guilds works the same way. If we want to compare classes 100x100 , we have to imagine all 200 being +6-7 and in that situation a +7 paladin would be able to do the same thing a +10 does against +10 players. You have to scale all classes down , not only the one you are mentioning Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salazam 476 Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 I didn't understand why you put the barbarian to have so much damage and so much defense. I also disagree with most class ranks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthas 388 Posted October 22, 2021 Author Share Posted October 22, 2021 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Rhaast said: I didn't understand why you put the barbarian to have so much damage and so much defense. I also disagree with most class ranks. As said above , tierlists were made taking into consideration players of those specific classes perspective. Barbarian for example , was a 5 damage , 10 defense , and the goal is for no class to be a 10 at anything. So the suggestion is for them to lose 3/10 defensive power and ger 2/10 offensive power. And the damage would be increased by a focus on 2h weapon, which was the complaint common by all barbarians i’ve talked. The class to be as in most rpgs , a mix between damage and defense , and not only 100% defense. And remember , this is not about +10 players, its about +6-7, because it has been stated before that the game is balanced around those players. In PvP suggestion for example : Blade Dancers have 8/10 damage and 6/10 defensive , and Barbarians have 7/10 damage and 7/10 defensive. its all about perspective Edited October 22, 2021 by Arthas Drakoslayd 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilypriest 15 Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 In my view this ranking of classes in the various requirements makes us can see more clearly the issue of specialization of each class in some specific function, both in pvp and pve or gvg. However I believe that only the ranking of the classes without evaluating the interaction of the skills between each other considering the synergy between the classes is not enough to be able to analyze the game as a whole. Much of what I have observed is that the need for change and balance comes from efficiency or deficiency in the synergy of the skills of the classes in the various branches of the game, pve pvp and gvg. I hope that if there will be a large balancing of classes, it should be taken into account mainly the effect caused by the combo of skills interacting together with guild skills and also with equipment such as items with stun. We saw that when the mage class stopped interacting with the stun staff in their area skills, it caused a major change in the goal of the game, simply by the absence of an element that increased the efficiency of their abilities. I believe that this assessment should be made by developers including the equipment and new items and talents that have been introduced into the game. Another point I would like to be carefully evaluated is the volumetric and population question. This issue is more clearly seen for example in a war where the volume of population caused by numerous mobs and totem invoked provides in a certain way also a form of crowd control and this type of control should also be considered when ranking classes according to specialties. Finally, I believe that for this balancing to be done more absolutely, the issue of versatility between all classes should also be considered through the three major areas of the game (pvp gvg and pve). We see that some classes ended up becoming too much specialized in one of the three major areas (warden, druid, shaman for example) and this is one of the reasons why the class ended up leaving the meta game. All classes should be viable in a decent way in any of the three major areas of the game, without necessarily being at the same time. Builds must be assembled in ways that can allow a player to use the well-performing class in the branch he chooses to play. Arthas and Salazam 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucstriker 61 Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 10 minutes ago, Arthas said: But every class if compared to specific guilds works the same way. If we want to compare classes 100x100 , we have to imagine all 200 being +6-7 and in that situation a +7 paladin would be able to do the same thing a +10 does against +10 players. You have to scale all classes down , not only the one you are mentioning Well, arena competition is quite a different thing, I don't see +7 paladins in arena ranks. Even because it needs to have a good amplification because it's something very competitive. At 100x100 it's quite different as it needs more combat power and paladin doesn't have much damage for being tank/support. But it all depends on what is being used (strength potions, cards, elixir). If you compare in general, playing as a paladin is quite complex, because the enemy is not exactly like the others. Big competitions tend to have the best players and being less amplified won't help. AoE control doesn't pick up at all for having limit and for (resist buffs used). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthas 388 Posted October 22, 2021 Author Share Posted October 22, 2021 3 minutes ago, Lilypriest said: In my view this ranking of classes in the various requirements makes us can see more clearly the issue of specialization of each class in some specific function, both in pvp and pve or gvg. However I believe that only the ranking of the classes without evaluating the interaction of the skills between each other considering the synergy between the classes is not enough to be able to analyze the game as a whole. Much of what I have observed is that the need for change and balance comes from efficiency or deficiency in the synergy of the skills of the classes in the various branches of the game, pve pvp and gvg. I hope that if there will be a large balancing of classes, it should be taken into account mainly the effect caused by the combo of skills interacting together with guild skills and also with equipment such as items with stun. We saw that when the mage class stopped interacting with the stun staff in their area skills, it caused a major change in the goal of the game, simply by the absence of an element that increased the efficiency of their abilities. I believe that this assessment should be made by developers including the equipment and new items and talents that have been introduced into the game. Another point I would like to be carefully evaluated is the volumetric and population question. This issue is more clearly seen for example in a war where the volume of population caused by numerous mobs and totem invoked provides in a certain way also a form of crowd control and this type of control should also be considered when ranking classes according to specialties. Finally, I believe that for this balancing to be done more absolutely, the issue of versatility between all classes should also be considered through the three major areas of the game (pvp gvg and pve). We see that some classes ended up becoming too much specialized in one of the three major areas (warden, druid, shaman for example) and this is one of the reasons why the class ended up leaving the meta game. All classes should be viable in a decent way in any of the three major areas of the game, without necessarily being at the same time. Builds must be assembled in ways that can allow a player to use the well-performing class in the branch he chooses to play. But tierlists are taking into consideration build synergy. But the main focus is “what X class brings to the table” Thats why for example Warlocks , even being the lowest defense class in the game is still in a High tier , because his skills and interactions with other classes. In arena for example : Paladins are S because of how much of a synergy their skills have with pretty much anything. I do agree that every class should be somewhat viable to every content , but i do think that every class should be unique and need to have a specialization. ”the thing they are better at” Just now, Buckrudy said: Well, arena competition is quite a different thing, I don't see +7 paladins in arena ranks. Even because it needs to have a good amplification because it's something very competitive. At 100x100 it's quite different as it needs more combat power and paladin doesn't have much damage for being tank/support. But it all depends on what is being used (strength potions, cards, elixir). If you compare in general, playing as a paladin is quite complex, because the enemy is not exactly like the others. Big competitions tend to have the best players and being less amplified won't help. AoE control doesn't pick up at all for having limit and for (resist buffs used). Because you are not scaling down every class as said before. A +7 Paladin can’t do much against a +10 Barbarian. But it most certainly can against a +7 Barbarian. Thats the same at GvGs , you have to imagine that every character is at the same equipment level to compare classes and not specific characters SCALE EVERY CLASS DOWN and you’ll get it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladiator 1142 Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 Oh there is so much that I disagree with Chieftains are E tier?! They're easily A-S Maybe can you send the tier list link if you got one so I can build my version? Speedom 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthas 388 Posted October 22, 2021 Author Share Posted October 22, 2021 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Gladiator said: Oh there is so much that I disagree with Chieftains are E tier?! They're easily A-S Maybe can you send the tier list link if you got one so I can build my version? On Arena? 0 control. Control is the single most important thing in PvP, because you have to think of its kit on its own. Do they have a combo ? No , 0 control Do they have enough damage to kill without a combo (players in the same gear level obv)? No Do they have good healing? No What skill do they have that is really good for arenas? Rugged Hide If i were only taking 5x5 into consideration , then they would be higher tier because of AoE damage, but in Arena overall , they are bad A +6-7 chieftain has no damage , no control and no support. All it has is Rugged Hide , when it ends , he is done for Edited October 22, 2021 by Arthas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucstriker 61 Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Arthas said: But tierlists are taking into consideration build synergy. But the main focus is “what X class brings to the table” Thats why for example Warlocks , even being the lowest defense class in the game is still in a High tier , because his skills and interactions with other classes. In arena for example : Paladins are S because of how much of a synergy their skills have with pretty much anything. I do agree that every class should be somewhat viable to every content , but i do think that every class should be unique and need to have a specialization. ”the thing they are better at” Because you are not scaling down every class as said before. A +7 Paladin can’t do much against a +10 Barbarian. But it most certainly can against a +7 Barbarian. Thats the same at GvGs , you have to imagine that every character is at the same equipment level to compare classes and not specific characters SCALE EVERY CLASS DOWN and you’ll get it There's nothing to climb below, the game is for teams. a +7 or +10 paladin is ineffective alone. You want to compare 1x1 and you can't explain it. Sacred shield is only used on the ally and the paladin alone will have no one to turn to for this. In GvG it will be different, as teams will be able to remove or ignore hundreds of positive and negative abilities. I think you could gather the 130 players who were part of your research and record a video with them, to make this topic clearer, as it has been quite confusing to classify the characters without a real assessment of what each one mentioned. I think it would be fairer. We would surely see the "great power of control and healing" of the paladin. Edited October 22, 2021 by Buckrudy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthas 388 Posted October 22, 2021 Author Share Posted October 22, 2021 1 minute ago, Buckrudy said: There's nothing to climb below, the game is for teams. a +7 or +10 paladin is ineffective alone. You want to compare 1x1 and you can't explain it. Sacred shield is only used on the ally and the paladin alone will have no one to turn to for this. In GvG it will be different, as teams will be able to remove or ignore hundreds of positive and negative abilities. I think you could gather the 130 players who were part of your research and record a video with them, to make this topic clearer, as it has been quite confusing to classify the characters without a real assessment of what each one mentioned. I think it would be fairer. We would surely see the "great power of control and healing" of the paladin. On the contrary. As stated on the post ,1v1 is irrelevant content, i meant paladin vs barbarian inside a team composition. Paladin is the best PvP support in the game. If +7 , with a full +7 team , against +7 players it is going to be top tier. obviously against a +10 team it won’t. Ignoring abilities isn’t and won’t ever be as simple as that , if you participate on GvGs and pay close attention , you’ll see that inside 100v100 fights pretty much everyone will be locked down because of stuns on both sides. Filipe Ramon 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chieftain 7 Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 I agree with the analysis of the current situation of the classes, except the issue of balancing be done based on +6/+7. Quite the contrary, I think it should be done considering the apex of the class and not leveling by low, because that's how Gods, Vikings, Tomaleites and Geralts come out of life, who, between us, are the ones that cause controversy about the classes in the arena (mainly) and in PvE. There are hardly any controversies based on class X or Y with +6/+7 amplification as there WAS with charmer in arena and mage in GVG, war and so on. As for the suggestions, I completely disagree with equalizing the damage, defense and even the control potential of certain classes, if it was a game with several focuses (or skill trees for each class like ESO or GW2, GV, WoW) I would agree but once in WS the function of each class or its potential is much more limited, what should be modified, in my opinion, are things like, for example, the damage scaling that in fact in the sentinels is superior and give more importance to the classes support as guarantor of this scaling. It is very superficial to say that a BD has more damage than a rogue in PvP and that this potential should be equaled when the gameplay of the classes is totally different. In the same way that it is superficial to say that the paladin's shield is "broken", according to the community, while a chieftain with 2 skill points in Spiritual Cleansing can take the shield and Aura of the paladin 5 meters away. And even the physical charmer, to become a problem in the arena has to use a very specific build and for sure +7 is not that monster they paint, if I ask, everyone will have the same nicknames in mind and everyone +10, full greatness, with more exclusive skill books than I've read in my life and with builds that make them useless (more) in other game content. Anyway, in short, the game analysis was accurate, but the suggestions of matching damage/defense potential of some classes I guarantee would only make everything more unbalanced, as they don't have the same skills and don't play the same role. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladiator 1142 Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Arthas said: On Arena? 0 control. Control is the single most important thing in PvP, because you have to think of its kit on its own. Do they have a combo ? No , 0 control Do they have enough damage to kill without a combo (players in the same gear level obv)? No Do they have good healing? No What skill do they have that is really good for arenas? Rugged Hide If i were only taking 5x5 into consideration , then they would be higher tier because of AoE damage, but in Arena overall , they are bad A +6-7 chieftain has no damage , no control and no support. All it has is Rugged Hide , when it ends , he is done for What do you mean bro, they have insane burst damage, more than any other class, on top of that they have the perfect counter to the S tier you mentioned, Paladin, they can remove shields, and then nuke the target with literally 2 skills that deal over 4-5k damage combined. The movement speed buff is very handy in catching ranged targets. And yes they do have a good crowd control in form of an AoE trap. They do have some skills that makes them sturdy for a certain time and the movement speed also can be used to run away. It seems that you haven't seen any good chieftains. They're the Legion meta with Shamans atm and Rogues and Charmers to an extent. Arena for me would be something like this: (Not in order) S - Paladin, Druid, Shaman, Charmer A - Chieftain, Ranger, Rogue, Bladedancer B - Templar, Warlock, Necromancer, Barbarian, Hunter, Mage C - Priest, Deathknight, Seeker D - Warden Edited October 22, 2021 by Gladiator Speedom 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthas 388 Posted October 22, 2021 Author Share Posted October 22, 2021 4 minutes ago, Gladiator said: What do you mean bro, they have insane burst damage, more than any other class, on top of that they have the perfect counter to the S tier you mentioned, Paladin, they can remove shields, and then nuke the target with literally 2 skills that deal over 4-5k damage combined. The movement speed buff is very handy in catching ranged targets. And yes they do have a good crowd control in form of an AoE trap. They do have some skills that makes them sturdy for a certain time and the movement speed also can be used to run away. It seems that you haven't seen any good chieftains. They're the Legion meta with Shamans atm and Rogues and Charmers to an extent. Arena for me would be something like this: (Not in order) S - Paladin, Druid, Shaman, Charmer A - Chieftain, Ranger, Rogue, Bladedancer B - Templar, Warlock, Necromancer, Barbarian, Hunter, Mage C - Priest, Deathknight, Seeker D - Warden If chieftain is that high in your server then certainly our Chieftains are not playing their class correctly in arena. But i do not agree that Druids and Shamans are in the same level as Charmer and Paladin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladiator 1142 Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 3 minutes ago, Arthas said: If chieftain is that high in your server then certainly our Chieftains are not playing their class correctly in arena. If you think they're E or anything less than A, then I would definitely say so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucstriker 61 Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 9 minutes ago, Chieftain said: I agree with the analysis of the current situation of the classes, except the issue of balancing be done based on +6/+7. Quite the contrary, I think it should be done considering the apex of the class and not leveling by low, because that's how Gods, Vikings, Tomaleites and Geralts come out of life, who, between us, are the ones that cause controversy about the classes in the arena (mainly) and in PvE. There are hardly any controversies based on class X or Y with +6/+7 amplification as there WAS with charmer in arena and mage in GVG, war and so on. As for the suggestions, I completely disagree with equalizing the damage, defense and even the control potential of certain classes, if it was a game with several focuses (or skill trees for each class like ESO or GW2, GV, WoW) I would agree but once in WS the function of each class or its potential is much more limited, what should be modified, in my opinion, are things like, for example, the damage scaling that in fact in the sentinels is superior and give more importance to the classes support as guarantor of this scaling. It is very superficial to say that a BD has more damage than a rogue in PvP and that this potential should be equaled when the gameplay of the classes is totally different. In the same way that it is superficial to say that the paladin's shield is "broken", according to the community, while a chieftain with 2 skill points in Spiritual Cleansing can take the shield and Aura of the paladin 5 meters away. And even the physical charmer, to become a problem in the arena has to use a very specific build and for sure +7 is not that monster they paint, if I ask, everyone will have the same nicknames in mind and everyone +10, full greatness, with more exclusive skill books than I've read in my life and with builds that make them useless (more) in other game content. Anyway, in short, the game analysis was accurate, but the suggestions of matching damage/defense potential of some classes I guarantee would only make everything more unbalanced, as they don't have the same skills and don't play the same role. You named 3 players who are at the top of the class as they have the full set of greatness and several rare books. I think the focus is on classes and not on someone specific. A class that doesn't need much investment is the chieftain, for being new it still needs some adjustments. Chieftain is damage, support and tank class? Anyway, there is still a lot to be done to "balance" warspear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Higgings 1821 Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 On 10/20/2021 at 4:57 AM, Arthas said: Death Knight : A tank that cannot withstand damage , it shouldn't be possible right? It is ,and dks can prove it to you. Almost no mobility , subpar defensive power and decent damage. Look mum, he talks about me! Diego Ferreira, Arthas and TheCaster 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salazam 476 Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 28 minutes ago, Arthas said: If chieftain is that high in your server then certainly our Chieftains are not playing their class correctly in arena. But i do not agree that Druids and Shamans are in the same level as Charmer and Paladin. with the mandatory builds that the guilds on the BR server put in the chieftains really won't do damage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedom 281 Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 This whole upcoming balance in December is making y'all go crazy! As much we're been lied to. International don't get looked at as much when it comes to new skill,.suggestions blah blah blah. Y'all trippin. Expectations: "I can finally enjoy the game." Reality: You'll rant and "quit" and come back to the next event. See y'all in test server. Avamanyar, TheCaster, Salazam and 1 other 1 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danfake 192 Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 (edited) I didn't like it, but I understand that the survey was based on questions from well-to-do players who in that form already have stable chars. Many classes are already well balanced for the function they were created. Basically they were based on what a player wants for their chars without sizing the function it fulfills. Many basic skill of varias class are obsolete for the current game, requiring adjustments or improvements. Base the capacity of each class on what it should have, but each class is linear in its function. Certainly in PvP is where there is more imbalance, But increase stats control, damage, defense to class that were created for a certain function. I totally agree that VAMPIRISM has to nerf to balance the party when it comes to Dungeon, PvP, GvG, etc. 18 minutes ago, Rhaast said: with the mandatory builds that the guilds on the BR server put in the chieftains really won't do damage. Exactly, on the one hand the mandatory BUILD helps the guild a lot, but it is for the same reason that it loses functions. Remember the Chieftain Baas the full DMG Physical towards quite a bit of damage in x1 boss. Edited October 22, 2021 by Danfake Salazam 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chieftain 7 Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 (edited) 48 minutes ago, Buckrudy said: You named 3 players who are at the top of the class as they have the full set of greatness and several rare books. I think the focus is on classes and not on someone specific. A class that doesn't need much investment is the chieftain, for being new it still needs some adjustments. Chieftain is damage, support and tank class? Anyway, there is still a lot to be done to "balance" warspear. I think you didn't understand, Arthas said that the game balance is around +6/+7 players. In this example I'm just saying that I think balance should take into account the greatest potential of each class because usually all the controversy arises when a +6/+7 player faces a top tier player as they are. And specific ones(specially when they are the better) are the perfect chance not just to us but also to the dev team see how their creations are doing. 52 minutes ago, Arthas said: If chieftain is that high in your server then certainly our Chieftains are not playing their class correctly in arena. But i do not agree that Druids and Shamans are in the same level as Charmer and Paladin. I have a +10 Blade Dancer, lvl 30 Greatness whit DEF bonus and Heavy lvl 32 Mermen set, And Isdead, the Physical dmg chieftain of our server(BR-TOURMALINE) deals 5k Dmg with 2 skills on me. He was in your guild if I'm not mistaken. Maybe that happened because guilds encouraged the chiefs to focus on magic damage as a requirement to join them. Edited October 22, 2021 by Chieftain Adding stuff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duton 5 Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Chieftain said: I have a +10 Blade Dancer, lvl 30 Greatness whit DEF bonus and Heavy lvl 32 Mermen set, And Isdead, the Physical dmg chieftain of our server(BR-TOURMALINE) deals 5k Dmg with 2 skills on me. He was in your guild if I'm not mistaken. Maybe that happened because guilds encouraged the chiefs to focus on magic damage as a requirement to join them. you again comparing 10+ players full of books! As it says above, the admin does not balance the classes by players + 10! Physical chief does damage from a skill and nothing else, if he doesn't kill in that skill it's easily controlled and won't do anything + Edited October 22, 2021 by Arthas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chieftain 7 Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 27 minutes ago, Duton said: you again comparing 10+ players full of books! As it says above, the admin does not balance the classes by players + 10! Physical chief does damage from a skill and nothing else, if he doesn't kill in that skill it's easily controlled and won't do anythingI'm I'm comparing a +10 chieftain with a +10 Blade Dancer, you may do the same comparison proportionally with +6/+7 ones it is obvious, and there are 3 skills that deal physical damage in Chieftain. Maybe not in 1x1 or jumping between adversary like a kamikaze but it surely plays its role, maybe other control skills besides thrashing fit into chieftain I'm not denying that. But most guys just make a standard build with standard equipments for standard guild GvG requirements, do not try anything different for their character and then come say nonsense here, as always. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthas 388 Posted October 22, 2021 Author Share Posted October 22, 2021 3 minutes ago, Chieftain said: I'm comparing a +10 chieftain with a +10 Blade Dancer, you may do the same comparison proportionally with +6/+7 ones it is obvious, and there are 3 skills that deal physical damage in Chieftain. Maybe not in 1x1 or jumping between adversary like a kamikaze but it surely plays its role, maybe other control skills besides thrashing fit into chieftain I'm not denying that. But most guys just make a standard build with standard equipments for standard guild GvG requirements, do not try anything different for their character and then come say nonsense here, as always. But that is the reason Chieftains are not high ranked in my opinion. No stun. It either 1 shots you , or doesn’t kill you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucstriker 61 Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 5 minutes ago, Arthas said: But that is the reason Chieftains are not high ranked in my opinion. No stun. It either 1 shots you , or doesn’t kill you. But that doesn't make any sense. Neither class should kill another easily. Chieftain is a class with a combo of the best classes (Mage Ennoblement, Priest's Redemption, Barbarian's Stone Skin, and a higher healing than the Priest, gross damage almost equal to that of the Blade Dancer). With little investment, without much effort, chieftain is already a class far superior to others! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drakoslayd 645 Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 9 minutes ago, Buckrudy said: But that doesn't make any sense. Neither class should kill another easily. Chieftain is a class with a combo of the best classes (Mage Ennoblement, Priest's Redemption, Barbarian's Stone Skin, and a higher healing than the Priest, gross damage almost equal to that of the Blade Dancer). With little investment, without much effort, chieftain is already a class far superior to others! The last part I 100% agree with. In my opinion every class should take hits with each other. Of course tanks should take more, others less so. Dmg classes should take more damage than support and dmg casters. It's all about their class and setup. An Abrams tank will take more than a Volkswagen beetle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthas 388 Posted October 22, 2021 Author Share Posted October 22, 2021 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Buckrudy said: But that doesn't make any sense. Neither class should kill another easily. Chieftain is a class with a combo of the best classes (Mage Ennoblement, Priest's Redemption, Barbarian's Stone Skin, and a higher healing than the Priest, gross damage almost equal to that of the Blade Dancer). With little investment, without much effort, chieftain is already a class far superior to others! It isn’t reliable , it would be MUCH better if the class lost partially their burst damage and got a stun in return i assure you. Damage alone does nothing without control And it isn’t superior to others with little investment , it just has Rugged Hide , which makes them able to take hits. That does not make them a good arena class. Whats the point of taking a few hits and staying alive if you dont have a combo to kill the enemy? You’ll be stunned until Hide is over and then exploded Edited October 22, 2021 by Arthas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabr 116 Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 I also don't agree with chief rank E in pvp. He is good in both 2v2 and 4x4 and 5x5 arena, he can change his build for that. He can easily get to the enemy and hit him with all the damage the chief has, and he's very explosive. Saying that if he doesn't kill in a combo he dies is also wrong, because this refers to 1v1. If you take into account that the arena is 2v2, the chief and his partner in the arena can focus on 1 target and kill him easily. Not to mention it removes problematic effects like the paladin's shield. If you look at the arena ranks, they will be there in a high position for an E rank, you will see that there will be physical chiefs in the 2v2 arena and magic and hybrids in the others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthas 388 Posted October 22, 2021 Author Share Posted October 22, 2021 1 minute ago, Fabr said: I also don't agree with chief rank E in pvp. He is good in both 2v2 and 4x4 and 5x5 arena, he can change his build for that. He can easily get to the enemy and hit him with all the damage the chief has, and he's very explosive. Saying that if he doesn't kill in a combo he dies is also wrong, because this refers to 1v1. If you take into account that the arena is 2v2, the chief and his partner in the arena can focus on 1 target and kill him easily. Not to mention it removes problematic effects like the paladin's shield. If you look at the arena ranks, they will be there in a high position for an E rank, you will see that there will be physical chiefs in the 2v2 arena and magic and hybrids in the others. Removing the Shield does get him to a higher position , but nowhere near a high rank Stun is king in the arena. Without any stun you have to completely rely on others Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucstriker 61 Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 6 minutes ago, Arthas said: It isn’t reliable , it would be MUCH better if the class lost partially their burst damage and got a stun in return i assure you. Damage alone does nothing without control And it isn’t superior to others with little investment , it just has Rugged Hide , which makes them able to take hits. That does not make them a good arena class. Whats the point of taking a few hits and staying alive if you dont have a combo to kill the enemy? You’ll be stunned until Hide is over and then exploded You are looking at the individual side of chieftain. As the game is team-based, the chief needs someone to stun and he and other chieftains will do the combo perfectly. Overall, the legion has the best control skills, thus being relentless when controlling in area. Chieftain is raw area damage, thus being even superior to mage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthas 388 Posted October 22, 2021 Author Share Posted October 22, 2021 23 minutes ago, Buckrudy said: You are looking at the individual side of chieftain. As the game is team-based, the chief needs someone to stun and he and other chieftains will do the combo perfectly. Overall, the legion has the best control skills, thus being relentless when controlling in area. Chieftain is raw area damage, thus being even superior to mage. Chieftain’s area dmg is indeed good for GvG , and that is why its A tier. But arena it is indeed maybe a C , because of its ability to take Pala’s shield off. Arenas are team based indeed , and 1v1 is not relevant , BUT , what makes a great arena class is what they bring to the table. And control is the most important aspect of it. That is why imo chieftain cannot be in the same Tier as a Hunter,Ranger or BladeDancer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabr 116 Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 46 minutes ago, Arthas said: Removing the Shield does get him to a higher position , but nowhere near a high rank Stun is king in the arena. Without any stun you have to completely rely on others Removing the shield can help you win as it will kill your opponent much faster and take the 2vs1 situation. He doesn't have stun, but he does have damage. It's true that you wouldn't kill some classes without a stun, but others would do perfectly fine, for example you can easily kill classes that have no healing, as they can't recover from all damage taken and also can't do anything against anti -stun of the chief. And you also need to trust others, it's an arena. Stun isn't everything, in fact the chief's rank doesn't match the reality in the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Null 1222 Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 5 часов назад, Arthas сказал: Do they have good healing? No Man, I can heal up to 5500 hp per 1 use. What are you talking about? I can take more damage than a barbarian. You can check my streams at https://youtu.be/IoCSYxCd0eg (not an ad though) 5 часов назад, Arthas сказал: Do they have enough damage to kill without a combo (players in the same gear level obv)? No Why not? 5 часов назад, Arthas сказал: A +6-7 chieftain has no damage , no control and no support. A +10 does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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