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Rebalance suggestion: Magic resistance book


vavavi
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1 hour ago, vavavi said:

This. This is the funniest sh*t ive read in ages. Comparing 10% crit dmg to cutting every possible debuff in half.

If you don't know, let me introduce u to what strength this book becomes

4K Hit, 28k critical

 

 

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5 minutes ago, King Death said:

If you don't know, let me introduce u to what strength this book becomes

4K Hit, 28k critical

 

 

Bro he knows. He's in the same guild as my seeker and i do over 30k crits with autos in sea.

 

Point is nobody cares about pve in this topic. Crit doesn't even do anything in pvp in the first place and only meme builds will get crit in pvp therefore the book is completely irrelevant where as octo book would even work for pve but nobody buys it for pve so thats irrelevant as well.

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22 minutes ago, Raislin said:

Point is nobody cares about pve in this topic.

This book was just cited as an example, as just as he believes this book is extremely strong for PvP, I don't think it's what he proposes, I believe it's acceptable as much as it is for a seeker to do 30k+ per hit in sea

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1 hour ago, Higgings said:

 

Anything which makes you heal yourself by 1.8k with one hit will most likely hit you by 1.2k per hit. It's not that much, if you think that such class might potentially be a dps, thus dealing that much per second. 

Yes it only "heals" 600 in that case. But it also negates you losing the 1200 you normally would have. It isnt nearly as bad as ppl make it seem

57 minutes ago, King Death said:

This book was just cited as an example, as just as he believes this book is extremely strong for PvP, I don't think it's what he proposes, I believe it's acceptable as much as it is for a seeker to do 30k+ per hit in sea

It is extremely strong for literally anything. Not only pvp. Any dg with any form of debuffs are affected also. 

1 hour ago, King Death said:

If you don't know, let me introduce u to what strength this book becomes

4K Hit, 28k critical

 

 

And idk how this is relevant in any way. It isn't the book alone making those crits. While with octo, it literally is only 1 item. In your case its a whole item set, combined with multiple skills and amps. 

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1 hour ago, vavavi said:

Yes it only "heals" 600 in that case. But it also negates you losing the 1200 you normally would have. It isnt nearly as bad as ppl make it seem

 

If said sentence of mine is correct, it would be necessary waiting for 2 seconds in order to deal 2.4k dmg, minus the -1.8k dmg, which means a total damage of 600. That's once every 2 seconds if you base your char on Life Steal (bad decision nowadays replacing ls for HP rune, unless you are a high dmg dealer - Seeker and BD). Plus, you won't reach an ammount equals to let's say 50% Life Steal on PvP (let's consider 30% at the very best if we consider LS book). That book is decent in 1vs1 (which is nonexistent when it comes to taking something into account balancement-wise in this game) but a complete mess in many vs many. It can potentially trigger also during DoT damage, completely nullifying you chance to survive for... uhm... let's say 1 second more you would normally survive without it. I wouldn't buy it for more than 1.5m now, tbh.

 

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12 minutes ago, Higgings said:

 

If said sentence of mine is correct, it would be necessary waiting for 2 seconds in order to deal 2.4k dmg, minus the -1.8k dmg, which means a total damage of 600. That's once every 2 seconds if you base your char on Life Steal (bad decision nowadays replacing ls for HP rune, unless you are a high dmg dealer - Seeker and BD). Plus, you won't reach an ammount equals to let's say 50% Life Steal on PvP (let's consider 30% at the very best if we consider LS book). That book is decent in 1vs1 (which is nonexistent when it comes to taking something into account balancement-wise in this game) but a complete mess in many vs many. It can potentially trigger also during DoT damage, completely nullifying you chance to survive for... uhm... let's say 1 second more you would normally survive without it. I wouldn't buy it for more than 1.5m now, tbh.

 

Thats still, 1,8k damage avoided, by a book. Meanwhile a hp book adds 400ish hp and some hp regen. Taking 600dmg instead of 2400 is huge.

Edited by vavavi
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I love how people here are complaining about their books not being OP enough while I'm sitting here with 0 books like ''wow yall got those books and want them better?''

Saying Distortion book is not good enough is just laughable to me, I would bet if it were released this way everyone would be going gaga over it. You just got used to it being as OP as it was. You basically get a chance to not lose any HP (even gain some) during a stun, god forbid it has a little bit of a cooldown! Also I love how the argument is basically: It's not worth 10m anymore. Well thank god for that, because anything above 5m just straight up means it's very VERY strong.

And if you're just upset that you paid 10m for it and now it's not worth that, well idk what to tell you, it ain't getting buffed so get over it, at least you got to enjoy being broken for a couple of months.

 

That's not even the worst part, Idk how Distortion got wrapped up in this topic, if you're afraid they'd give Octo book the same treatment, well they better f*cking do! Cus that sh*t is still very good, and more importantly somewhat balanced all things considered.

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13 hours ago, Gladiator said:

Saying Distortion book is not good enough is just laughable to me, I would bet if it were released this way everyone would be going gaga over it. You just got used to it being as OP as it was. You basically get a chance to not lose any HP (even gain some) during a stun, god forbid it has a little bit of a cooldown!

 

In a side where the best opponent you have got in terms of damage is a class who's not even capable of stunning (yet enough to make the majority of elves cry for a nerf) and another which might survive only thanks to its dodge, I find it understandable enough that it ain't a big deal for you; it's not your side who has to fight against several classes capable to deal 1k+ dmg on a full PvP character anyway. 

 

13 hours ago, Gladiator said:

Also I love how the argument is basically: It's not worth 10m anymore. Well thank god for that, because anything above 5m just straight up means it's very VERY strong.

 

If that's what you have understood from said arguments then I fear you might have not read them properly. The fact that it doesn't cost 10m anymore is a consequence of how strongly nerfed the book was. I took it personally because - you know - DKs haven't got a shield... and a skill which heals me by 6k with one click:vp-hehe: and it was our only mean to use Saturation and to justify the ridiculous -10% HP cost said skill has got. I am just complaining about the 2 seconds CD being an infinity even in the most simple scenarios such as Arena. If before it could litterally make you immortal, now it can just delay your death. And it shouldn't be like that for a rare book. The same way for Octo of course, that's why I suggested a limit of 30% Reduction. 

 

13 hours ago, Gladiator said:

And if you're just upset that you paid 10m for it and now it's not worth that, well idk what to tell you, it ain't getting buffed so get over it, at least you got to enjoy being broken for a couple of months.

 

Oh I personally have got used to it, this is why I'm encouraging people I know not to spend a single penny for that. 

 

13 hours ago, Gladiator said:

That's not even the worst part, Idk how Distortion got wrapped up in this topic

 

The creator of the topic brought it here the first time just to make a little comparison, but none of us thought the conversation would've gone that far tbh. At least I didn't. At this point I would suggest to change the Title of the topic entirely and to add also Distortion of Life, but that's up to @vavavi to decide. 

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14 hours ago, Gladiator said:

That's not even the worst part, Idk how Distortion got wrapped up in this topic

It's a bit of a tangent, but distort is a really good comparison point for octo book. It's the only non class skill book thats been nerfed, afaik anyway. 

 

Distort only affected true stuns, a small subset of skills, which is like 15(?) skills i think. And it didn't make them useless, just meant you can't really kill your targer during those, they would still be unable to fight though. And it still got a HEAVY nerf. It wasn't just the cooldown between heals, but also castle healing buff/pot stopped working with it.

 

Magic resistance works on like 70 ish different effects, which is ridiculous. I'm really failing to see how anyone could defend it. And nobody really has, don't think i've seen more than 1 person ever say it's a balanced item. The only defense people have for it, is that it is rare, and expensive. Its basically a priceless item, the only one in eu that was sold apparently had offers as high as 100mil. That alone should speak volumes on how busted it is.

 

The price is direct consequence of it being a game breaking item. Using that, or its rarity (which really should not be relevant in a discussion about an items balance in the first place. Especially when they will only get more and more common as time goes by), as an argument to defend the books power seems a bit flawed.

Edited by vavavi
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4 hours ago, Higgings said:

I took it personally because - you know - DKs haven't got a shield... and a skill which heals me by 6k with one click:vp-hehe: and it was our only mean to use Saturation and to justify the ridiculous -10% HP cost said skill has got.

It sounds like your problem aren't really the books at hand but your class being underpowered, and to that I can agree, go ask for a buff.

But that's irrelevant to the discussion here, and you're using the DK's weakness as a reasoning to why 2 seconds is too long or why the book isn't good enough anymore. Maybe a Paladin would say holy sh*t this books makes me even more immortal. See where the argument quickly falls off? We have to talk about books regardless of who is using them, because it's gonna be relative.

 

 

4 hours ago, Higgings said:

I am just complaining about the 2 seconds CD being an infinity even in the most simple scenarios such as Arena. 

2 seconds is nowhere near too much, most end-game arena fights between balanced team compositions, e.g. a healer and a damage dealer, can easily go for 1 min+, no need to count how many times Distortion could proc in that fight.

 

4 hours ago, Higgings said:

If before it could litterally make you immortal, now it can just delay your death. And it shouldn't be like that for a rare book. The same way for Octo of course, that's why I suggested a limit of 30% Reduction. 

I don't get it, delaying death isn't good enough anymore? Can't you say about all defensive skills that they 'just delay death'. It's not simply delaying death, it's giving an opportunity to come back. So it could turn a death into a win in a some of cases, people just overlook it.

What should a rare (defensive) book do besides delaying death if not making someone immortal? Because I think we both know the latter is dumb, no book should do that regardless of rarity. So if just delaying death isn't enough, what would you want it do?

 

It is supposed to improve survivability when you're most vulnerable, nothing more. So yeah just delaying the inevitable death, if you wanna see it that way, it's still good, and like @vavavi is saying, it's still one of, if not the best book besides Octo and Orci, at least in the defensive department. So if you're telling your friends not to get it, that's up to you I guess.

 

4 hours ago, vavavi said:

And it still got a HEAVY nerf. It wasn't just the cooldown between heals, but also castle healing buff/pot stopped working with it.

Yeah I know it's a heavy nerf, but was it warranted? I believe so. And Octo deserves a heavy nerf, but just like Distortion it will still be good. I mean if we're gonna all agree to a 30% cap, that's almost a 50% nerf, it's a heavy nerf. And guess what, it's still very powerful and would still be the best book, and maybe the single best item in the whole game, it just would not be out of the world OP.

It's a testament to how crazy it is right now.

 

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34 minutes ago, Gladiator said:

But that's irrelevant to the discussion here, and you're using the DK's weakness as a reasoning to why 2 seconds is too long or why the book isn't good enough anymore.

 

The only reason of why it's irrelevant here it's because it's off topic. If a battle lasts more than 1 minute (let's say 5x5 or 2x2 - Crucible or Seal will last more due to obvious reasons) you're either fighting a combo Druid+Paladin or you're watching an endless fight Healers vs Healers. Every second in a dynamic scenario lasts an eternity: pay more attention to that and you'll see why I keep saying this. 

 

34 minutes ago, Gladiator said:

Maybe a Paladin would say holy sh*t this books makes me even more immortal

 

After several topics where you want to buff already broken skills, this is the first sentence of yours I see where you admit the truth. 

It's a mere comment, but I can't deny that you're right in this case - about the class - but not about the CD time. 

 

34 minutes ago, Gladiator said:

I don't get it, delaying death isn't good enough anymore? Can't you say about all defensive skills that they 'just delay death'. It's not simply delaying death, it's giving an opportunity

 

Triggering once every second or triggering against every single root/control skill is "giving an opportunity to win". Delaying death is not an opportunity to win, but just an avoidance of the inevitable. 

 

34 minutes ago, Gladiator said:

It is supposed to improve survivability when you're most vulnerable, nothing more. So yeah just delaying the inevitable death, if you wanna see it that way, it's still good

 

This is where you fell. Delaying death and giving a chance to win are two separated and different things. Healing by 6k when I am in troubles gives me a new chance to win. Parrying 2k dmg just to receive 4k dmg in the next 2 seconds is delaying your death. The difference is that the 2nd scenario gives you no chances at all. Just an illusion. 

 

36 minutes ago, Gladiator said:

What should a rare (defensive) book do besides delaying death if not making someone immortal?

 

Dude there is not only Black and White. There is not only Immortality and Complete Weakness. I repeat that said book triggers even with DoT damage. If that's what you call "second chance"... 

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1 hour ago, Higgings said:

The only reason of why it's irrelevant here it's because it's off topic. If a battle lasts more than 1 minute (let's say 5x5 or 2x2 - Crucible or Seal will last more due to obvious reasons) you're either fighting a combo Druid+Paladin or you're watching an endless fight Healers vs Healers. Every second in a dynamic scenario lasts an eternity: pay more attention to that and you'll see why I keep saying this. 

I don't see why you keep saying this. Paladin + BD vs Shaman + Chieftain for example is a fight that could typically last more than a minute. That's a lot of time for Distortion to provide value. And that's in 2v2, which is the shortest mode in arena, if we're talking about Seals or Crucible, then Distortion is even more valuable.

I don't care how much 1 or 2 seconds feels to you, as long as the fight lasts long enough, the book will provide good value. If you're saying that 1 second is an eternity, then 1 minute is 60 eternities, and like I said, there are many scenarios where fights go long enough for that.

 

1 hour ago, Higgings said:

After several topics where you want to buff already broken skills, this is the first sentence of yours I see where you admit the truth. 

It's a mere comment, but I can't deny that you're right in this case - about the class - but not about the CD time. 

I don't know what you're talking about, where did I want to buff broken skills? And I didn't admit to anything. What I was trying to do here is not in what you quoted, but the context around it that you didn't quote. I was trying to show you that if you apply your logic to a different class, the book suddenly becomes very effective making an already good class even better. So the problem isn't the book, but maybe your class. I was pushing your arguments logic to the extreme. 

 

Let me give you another example: The only Octo book in US server is owned by a DK, and together with like 10+ other books, he is pretty nuts. It's making even DK look like one of the best classes in arena, and that alone should say a lot.

But what I wanna say is, thank god a DK has it and not literally any other class, because if it was one of the S tiers like Shaman, Charmer, Paladin, Druid, BD etc.. we might have had a single unbeatable party in the server. But that is not the case when a DK has it, in fact, in a lot of cases it's actually only delaying his death, is it a problem with the book? No it's classes' imbalance, totally different topic.

 

So like I said it's irrelevant to talk about books with consideration to who is using it. It's a classless book, we should be able to determine if it's good or not without thinking about the classes using it, sure some classes can benefit from different books more than other classes, but that's not a characteristic of the book. My point was if you're using DK and you can't feel the power of Distortion, it might just be the fault of class imbalance, because I can assure you other classes feel differently.

 

 

1 hour ago, Higgings said:

This is where you fell. Delaying death and giving a chance to win are two separated and different things. Healing by 6k when I am in troubles gives me a new chance to win. Parrying 2k dmg just to receive 4k dmg in the next 2 seconds is delaying your death. The difference is that the 2nd scenario gives you no chances at all. Just an illusion. 

I honestly don't understand what you're trying to say here.

If you're receiving 4k damage every 2 seconds, you are going to die eventually, should any book or skill for that matter be able to prevent that? I'm missing your point.

 

Edited by Gladiator
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1 hour ago, Gladiator said:

I don't see why you keep saying this. Paladin + BD vs Shaman + Chieftain for example is a fight that could typically last more than a minute. That's a lot of time for Distortion to provide value. And that's in 2v2, which is the shortest mode in arena, if we're talking about Seals or Crucible, then Distortion is even more valuable

 

As I said, in scenarios where you'll fight in Seals and Crucible (long lasting arenas) or against healers, you'll see the (nonexistent otherwise) strenght of the book. In a more dynamic scenario, this book is pretty useless. 

 

2 hours ago, Gladiator said:

I don't know what you're talking about, where did I want to buff broken skills?

 

Dude... don't get me started here too please. It was a mere comment of mine, irrelevant to the topic. My bad for having made it.

 

2 hours ago, Gladiator said:

I was trying to show you that if you apply your logic to a different class, the book suddenly becomes very effective making an already good class even better. So the problem isn't the book, but maybe your class. I was pushing your arguments logic to the extreme

 

I indeed said that you were right on this sense and I didn't indeed consider this aspect.

 

2 hours ago, Gladiator said:

I honestly don't understand what you're trying to say here.

If you're receiving 4k damage every 2 seconds, you are going to die eventually, should any book or skill for that matter be able to prevent that? I'm missing your point

 

If you consider it a good book which makes you survive, yes. Otherwise, let's just consider it a """barely decent""" book for who plans to build his char upon Life Steal. 

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There's a reason this book is rare and drop from Raid boss only.

 

 

Distortion was dropped from Events, Multiple dg events. It was obvious that this book would get nerfed.

 

You want a Raid Boss Book to be nerfed cause its too "OP". In my opinion, this book shouldn't be nerfed cause it drops from a Raid Boss and it can't be dropped anywhere else. 

 

People suggested to make it a % chance.. how would that even work? Imagine, you have to fight every single guild to win the Boss, you have to at least get 30 members every day to activate the Boss, all this effort for a % chance book? In EU-EMERALD only 3 books been dropped so far. In US-SAPHIRE only 1 book been dropped so far.  There's a reason this book is dropped like once a year. If there would be like 20 books each server, I would understand this, but yet. I'm sure there's less than 25 books in all servers together. It has been out like, I don't know.. 3 years? I don't understand the complaints here, if any of you got this book.. you would be quiet. 

 

So think about this again.. is it worth complaining all day about a book which like less than 25 people own?

 

I don't think it does, cause after all, you put a lot of effort to get this book as a guild. You pay a lot of gold to get this book cause its like 0,00082838% drop chance every kill.

 

 

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Ok let's get this out of the way: Don't nerf it because it's rare even if it's OP or don't nerf it because it's not OP?

 

1. If you're saying don't nerf it because it's rare, then you admit it's OP -> nerf it. Stop bringing up this stupid point of its rarity, it doesn't mean sh*t. If it's OP, it's OP, I don't care even if only 1 had it in the entire game. For all I care nerf it sooner better than when 100 people have it, it will cause less people raging because they paid 50m for a book that got nerfed later and then think it's not worth what they paid for.

 

The more people have it, the more people will complain about it, the fact that you don't see many topics it about is because not many people have it. It's a matter of time before you see more topics about, and the more people complain about it, the more likely and the sooner devs will nerf it. So I think it WILL get nerfed eventually, it will happen, the question is when. I would say now better than later.

 

 

2. If you're saying don't nerf it because it's not OP, then you're delusional.

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10 hours ago, Babocool said:

There's a reason this book is rare and drop from Raid boss only.

 

 

Distortion was dropped from Events, Multiple dg events. It was obvious that this book would get nerfed.

 

You want a Raid Boss Book to be nerfed cause its too "OP". In my opinion, this book shouldn't be nerfed cause it drops from a Raid Boss and it can't be dropped anywhere else.

 

Items rarity or source isn't a justification to be game breaking. Even you, as someone who has one, have aknowledged multiple times how busted it is. Also, orcinus is a newer boss, arguably harder to kill, but the book from there, arguable octo books counterpart, is nowhere near as powerful. Octo is so incredibly out of proportion to anything else the game has ever had. It could be straight cut in half, and would still be the best item in the game.

 

10 hours ago, Babocool said:

In EU-EMERALD only 3 books been dropped so far. In US-SAPHIRE only 1 book been dropped so far.  There's a reason this book is dropped like once a year. If there would be like 20 books each server, I would understand this, but yet.

 

Saying there aren't many is also completely irrelevant. There are servers with 6-7-8 of these, and those numbers will only keep going up. Octopus as a boss isn't going anywhere, more and more books will just come. It would actually make more sense to aknowledge how broken it is now, rather than when there are 20+ppl with it everywhere.

 

10 hours ago, Babocool said:

So think about this again.. is it worth complaining all day about a book which like less than 25 people own?

 

I don't think it does, cause after all, you put a lot of effort to get this book as a guild. You pay a lot of gold to get this book cause its like 0,00082838% drop chance every kill.

 

 

If the number 1/180 is close to correct, there should be an average of 6 books per server. Assuming the boss has been killed daily for 3 years. Go 3 years forward that should be an average of 12. 

 

Having 8-10-12 or more of these books per server can literally be damaging to the games longevity itself (if nothing is changed). New people will come to the game, spend loads of time and money improving their chars. Then one day they get the idea they want to fight for arena ranks for example. Oops, you can't, because you havent been in a guild thats farmed a boss for 3 years. You don't have this singular item that can't be countered, and stand no chance.

 

Having an item be so broken, that it's a requirement to have one also if you even want to have a chance to win, is just stupid. It may be rare now, but down the line it can literally discourage new players from trying their best in the game. It does that even now, in EU nobody fights for ranks, they know they can't beat the few ppl with that book. And thats only from 3 books. How damaging will it be to servers to have 10 of them, or 15? 

 

Also once again, the rarity and price of this book don't matter. It's so badly out of proportion, that nobody even tries to defend its power. They only say its rare.

10 hours ago, Babocool said:

People suggested to make it a % chance.. how would that even work? Imagine, you have to fight every single guild to win the Boss, you have to at least get 30 members every day to activate the Boss, all this effort for a % chance book?

 

 

Chance was just one idea. Another could be limiting on what it works on. For example, make it so it ONLY works on stun and root SKILLS. Leave silences, saps, bleeds and relics alone. Atleast that way, you can lower the persons dps to counter his immunity to stuns.

10 hours ago, Babocool said:

I don't understand the complaints here, if any of you got this book.. you would be quiet.

 

 

Yea, ofc would be quiet. I'd run around tormenting the whole game, knowing nobody can counter me except 2 guildmates. Thats the whole problem. Also this goes the other way around too, if you didn't have one, or access to get one, you would probably agree too.

 

The only ones i've really seen defend this book are people who have it, and want to keep abusing it. I'd do the exact same thing. Knowing nobody has any chance to ever counter me without having this one rare item would be great, but also really really broken.

Edited by vavavi
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let's say, nerfs will come maybe year after when more people complain about this (and more people paid millions for this) , same as we saw with distortion. People said "distortion gave balance to any class" while it made anyone immortal (with combination of other life steal books, yes) , we see this again, people spends millions, and when time comes up, it may get nerfed. It's pricy because it is op, as we knew people buying distortion first for 2-3m then for 15m later, just because it made people unkillable. Not only magic resistance book is overpowered, it's also orcinus book, for some of classes. Let's say, a chief could run with pretty max cd on pvp, having nonstop 40% rugged hide skill on, maybe bds power of blades skill might be op with that too? Charmer would be able to have block skill active even with low cd, or a priest/sham doubled heal, or stronger shield? For having a little chance win against magic resistance book is simply use "buffing build" , but it's not fun because you have to change it all over again versus other players. 

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