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Rebalance suggestion: Magic resistance book


vavavi
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This thing.720463388_octo(2).thumb.jpg.cebc040621b9b1b8d7cc0f8fe56894cb.jpg

With the upcoming skill balances, theres been alot of discussion about skills, but not so much about passive skill books. And there is one thats in desperate need of some reworking.

 

This monster of a book dropped from raid boss giant octopus in t5, is easily the most broken, overpowered and busted item the game currently has. And heres why.

 

Lets start by comparing it to its counter part "magic extension", dropped by the other raid boss in t5, orcinus. One of them extends positive effects, while one of them cuts down the duration of negative effects. In paper, it makes sense, but in reality these 2 things are nowhere near equal. While the book from orcinus is insanely strong, and makes a huge difference (as it should), it can be countered with the right play. Octo one really cant be.

 

How this book works right now, is that it cuts down ANY negative effects duration applied to your character with the amount equal to your magic defence %. So this is usually about 50%. It already sounds strong, while assuming it would be just stuns, but thats not what the reality is.  When I said any negative effect, it means all of them. Relics, saps, roars, silences, slows, stuns, roots, bleeds. Anything you can think of, it effectively cuts in half. It works on so many things, that theres 0 counter play to it (Except having the book also). I understand that it's rare, and should be strong, much like its counter part is, but strong shouldn't mean straight up making you almost immune to any negative effect. 

 

I have a few suggestions how this could be balanced, while still keeping it equal to magic extension one.

 

1. The % could be cut in half. So for example, if you have 50% magic defence, it would lower the duration of negative effects by 25%. This would still be strong, and make a huge difference, but would atleast allow for bit more counterplay.

 

2. Make it chance based. So 50% magic defence, would mean you have a 50% chance for it to activate, and cut the duration in half.

 

3. Its effectiveness could be limited somehow. For example, let it work only on stuns and root type of skills, while relics saps etc stay unaffected. Something along these lines.

 

4. Give it a cooldown. For example, every 3rd negative effect would be effected, or that it couldnt be triggered more than once every 5 secs. This one is a bit risky in my opinion, because if the timer is too long, it would be way too hard of a nerf.

 

Haven't seen this book being discussed in english forums atleast, so figured might aswell bring it up.

 

Edited by vavavi
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100% agree

 

49 minutes ago, vavavi said:

4. Give it a cooldown. For example, every 3rd negative effect would be effected, or that it couldnt be triggered more than once every 5 secs. This one is a bit risky in my opinion, because if the timer is too long, it would be way too hard of a nerf.

I think this makes the most sense especialy the first option, I would be down with even every 2nd debuff. This way you can still be smart about your debuffs order knowing which debuff will be shortened.

 

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1 hour ago, vavavi said:

 

 

I have a few suggestions how this could be balanced, while still keeping it equal to magic extension one.

 

1. The % could be cut in half. So for example, if you have 50% magic defence, it would lower the duration of negative effects by 25%. This would still be strong, and make a huge difference, but would atleast allow for bit more counterplay.

 

2. Make it chance based. So 50% magic defence, would mean you have a 50% chance for it to activate, and cut the duration in half.

 

3. Its effectiveness could be limited somehow. For example, let it work only on stuns and root type of skills, while relics saps etc stay unaffected. Something along these lines.

 

4. Give it a cooldown. For example, every 3rd negative effect would be effected, or that it couldnt be triggered more than once every 5 secs. This one is a bit risky in my opinion, because if the timer is too long, it would be way too hard of a nerf.

 

 

 

 

This is also the most expensive item in the game, on my server the last one went for 22 Million gold (which for our economy , is absurd, as most books go for 5million tops) , and its drop rate is ridiculously low , usually drops twice a year , so it should as strong as it is, as it isn't something everyone should have.

 

 

1) I think its viable , but not by that much, maybe 70% ?

 

2) If it had a chance to activate, then it would have to completely cancel the skill and not only decrease its duration.

 

3) I think making it only work on anything that "affects movement" would be better , as thats what most people use it for.

 

4) It would literally make that book counterable by anyone that knows how to properly combo their skills, so if that's done , you might aswell not have it anymore.

 

 

 

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26 minutes ago, Arthas said:

 

This is also the most expensive item in the game, on my server the last one went for 22 Million gold (which for our economy , is absurd, as most books go for 5million tops) , and its drop rate is ridiculously low , usually drops twice a year , so it should as strong as it is, as it isn't something everyone should have.

 

 

1) I think its viable , but not by that much, maybe 70% ?

 

2) If it had a chance to activate, then it would have to completely cancel the skill and not only decrease its duration.

 

3) I think making it only work on anything that "affects movement" would be better , as thats what most people use it for.

 

4) It would literally make that book counterable by anyone that knows how to properly combo their skills, so if that's done , you might aswell not have it anymore.

 

 

 

Being expensive isnt a justification for something that has 0 counter play. Thats the definition of overpowered. Orcinus book is its counter part, also expensive, but is nowhere near as impactful. Having a single item that makes any form of counter play impossible is just poor design.

 

And about your 4th point, you literally say yourself it has NO COUNTER. Having some way to counter it is just logical. Only reason it is that absurdly expensive, is that its so obviously game breaking.

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1 hour ago, vavavi said:

Haven't seen this book being discussed in english forums atleast, so figured might aswell bring it up.

Maybe thats because not that many exist in the first place in emerald or sapphire which are "english" servers

And those who have the book are already basically unbeatable in pvp

 

I agree with these parts too because if this was the case then it could be countered by using debuffs in tactical order

1 hour ago, vavavi said:

Give it a cooldown. For example, every 3rd negative effect would be effected, or that it couldnt be triggered more than once every 5 secs

 

48 minutes ago, Gladiator said:

I think this makes the most sense especialy the first option, I would be down with even every 2nd debuff. This way you can still be smart about your debuffs order knowing which debuff will be shortened.

 

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6 minutes ago, vavavi said:

Being expensive isnt a justification for something that has 0 counter play. Thats the definition of overpowered. Orcinus book is its counter part, also expensive, but is nowhere near as impactful. Having a single item that makes any form of counter play impossible is just poor design

 

Well , it can be dealt with.

And the price itself is a reflection of how strong it is.

 

But it also should not be nerfed by that much as option 4 suggests, i doubt is something that would ever be implemented , so i'd rather try to focus on what i think its possible.

Options 1 to 3 would be viable depending on numbers ofc.

 

Maybe my vision is different because on my server we have a few of them on each faction , so our pvp is kind of "balanced".

Last arena tournament we fought 3x3 against a team with 2 of those, and our had 1 , and it was doable.

But ofc , thats full greatness +10 people fighting , so that certainly isnt the usual environment.

Edited by Arthas
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12 minutes ago, Arthas said:

 

Well , it can be dealt with.

And the price itself is a reflection of how strong it is.

 

But it also should not be nerfed by that much as option 4 suggests, i doubt is something that would ever be implemented , so i'd rather try to focus on what i think its possible.

Options 1 to 3 would be viable depending on numbers ofc.

 

Maybe my vision is different because on my server we have a few of them on each faction , so our pvp is kind of "balanced".

Last arena tournament we fought 3x3 against a team with 2 of those, and our had 1 , and it was doable.

But ofc , thats full greatness +10 people fighting , so that certainly isnt the usual environment.

You can't fight the book without having it. And when your one suggestion is to make it a 50% chance to ignore stuns, to NERF it. Let me say that again, a suggestion of a NERFED version of the book, is flat out 50% resist. Equal to 12,5 normal resist books. Doesn't that itself speak volumes about how absurd the book is.

 

And once again, only reason it is that expensive is cause its broken. Same way when ppl made loads of bds cause counter, or ppl paid 15m+ for distort. The unbalance makes the price

Edited by vavavi
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8 minutes ago, vavavi said:

You can't fight the book without having it. And when your one suggestion is to make it a 50% chance to ignore stuns, to NERF it. Let me say that again, a suggestion of a NERFED version of the book, is flat out 50% resist. Equal to 12,5 normal resist books. Doesn't that itself speak volumes about how absurd the book is.

 

And once again, only reason it is that expensive is cause its broken. Same way when ppl made loads of bds cause counter, or ppl paid 15m+ for distort. The unbalance makes the price

 

I think a 50% chance to activate , and then magic def% decrease of duration is a pretty big nerf.

If it were 50% chance to activate and would literally ignore the debuff.

Then it wouldn't be a nerf, it would actually be a buff

Edited by Arthas
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4 minutes ago, Arthas said:

 

I think a 50% chance to activate , and then magic def% decrease of duration is a pretty big nerf.

If it were 50% chance to activate and would literally ignore the debuff.

Then it wouldn't be a nerf

It would still mean that on average every debuff is cut by 25%. Which is still insanely strong, and in eu atleast, that book would still fetch anything from 30-50m if sold. 

Edited by Arthas
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15 minutes ago, vavavi said:

It would still mean that on average every debuff is cut by 25%. Which is still insanely strong, and in eu atleast, that book would still fetch anything from 30-50m if sold. 

 

I think that if it cut the effect but 30% , it would ne a pretty good nerf.

Usually people have 45%-55% Magic Def.

So it would decrease by 31.5-38.5% debuff's duration.

 

I mean , it doesn't change a lot on the game overall , but the competition for those bosses is big, and the whole fight happens because of how good the skill is.

On my server factions fight for them most of the time. It is something that moves the game and the economy.

Nerfing can have a pretty negative impact on the game , bigger then 3 players that get 50% duration in debufs.

 

Distorion had become pretty common , this is unlikely to ever be common.

Thats why i think the kind of nerf as suggested in option 4 will never happen

Edited by Arthas
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13 minutes ago, Arthas said:

 

I think that if it cut the effect but 30% , it would ne a pretty good nerf.

Usually people have 45%-55% Magic Def.

So it would decrease by 31.5-38.5% debuff's duration.

 

I mean , it doesn't change a lot on the game overall , but the competition for those bosses is big, and the whole fight happens because of how good the skill is.

On my server factions fight for them most of the time. It is something that moves the game and the economy.

Nerfing can have a pretty negative impact on the game , bigger then 3 players that get 50% duration in debufs.

 

Distorion had become pretty common , this is unlikely to ever be common.

Thats why i think the kind of nerf as suggested in option 4 will never happen

I don't understand how rarity is the biggest point. Elm books, engi books are rare, the drop rates cant be that far apart. Same with orcinus.

 

You say that its rare, people paid alot for it, etc. What if we flip that. You put 2 ppl, both fully awarded, fully amped, fully booked. Both people have spent thousands of $ on their chars. Then one of them drops this book. It goes from a 5050 matchup, to literally like 90-10. Completely disregarding the other players spent money and time, with one singular item. You could cut the book in half, and it would still make it like 75-25 matchup. It's absurd compared to anything in this game

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10 minutes ago, vavavi said:

I don't understand how rarity is the biggest point. Elm books, engi books are rare, the drop rates cant be that far apart. Same with orcinus.

 

You say that its rare, people paid alot for it, etc. What if we flip that. You put 2 ppl, both fully awarded, fully amped, fully booked. Both people have spent thousands of $ on their chars. Then one of them drops this book. It goes from a 5050 matchup, to literally like 90-10. Completely disregarding the other players spent money and time, with one singular item. You could cut the book in half, and it would still make it like 75-25 matchup. It's absurd compared to anything in this game

 

It really does affect a lot how a character works , for example BD vs BD , the one that has it will win 90% of the times if he has the same items/build.

But people usually are not going against same class/build/strategy on arena , and that also is a pretty big component, thats why i said that it can be dealt with.

Every class has classes that it can beat, and classes that it can't unless every star aligns (considering equipment is on the same level)

 

A Barbarian will still suffer against a DRUID/PRIEST even if he has that book , because he will lack the damage necessary to outdmg their heal.

A BD will still suffer against a Barbarian even if he has that book , because BRBs are pretty good against melee physical classes.

 

The skill does give a pretty big advantage, but it doest not make you unbeatable.

I think it does deserve a nerf , but not what was suggested in option 4.

Thats all

 

Edited by Arthas
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21 minutes ago, Arthas said:

 

It really does affect a lot how a character works , for example BD vs BD , the one that has it will win 90% of the times if he has the same items/build.

But people usually are not going against same class/build/strategy on arena , and that also is a pretty big component, thats why i said that it can be dealt with.

Every class has classes that it can beat, and classes that it can't unless every star aligns (considering equipment is on the same level)

 

A Barbarian will still suffer against a DRUID/PRIEST even if he has that book , because he will lack the damage necessary to outdmg their heal.

A BD will still suffer against a Barbarian even if he has that book , because BRBs are pretty good against melee physical classes.

 

The skill does give a pretty big advantage, but it doest not make you unbeatable.

I think it does deserve a nerf , but not what was suggested in option 4.

Thats all

 

Im sorry, but no bladedancer with this book would struggle against a barb. And only way a barb would struggle against a druid is he was using some low dmg build.

 

Ofc if you put it on a trash arena class it wont do much. Using it on a barb or warden is just stupid, that doesn't mean anything. Ofc a warden wont kill a healer.

 

We have 2 of them at elf. One on a ranger and one on a bd. They dominate, everyone. No matter what class, they will always win 85-90% of the fights. Because of 1 item. Only ones they go 5050 against are each other, or the other people with the book.

 

Besides 1v1s are irrelevant. Arenas the real problem. If you put a team, with 1 or 2 of those books, in any mode. 2v2, 3v3, seals, 5v5, crucible, they will win the other team almost always, even if otherwise equally geared. Especially whrn buffs are involved. Having a shaman/druid or pala in ur team, with castles resist scroll, buffs the % to like 65-70%. Thats 10 second stuns, being 3 seconds long. 5 sec relics being 1,5 seconds. Its just nuts.

 

And yea, idk if 4 is the best option. But it needs a major nerf.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, vavavi said:

Im sorry, but no bladedancer with this book would struggle against a barb. And only way a barb would struggle against a druid is he was using some low dmg build.

 

Ofc if you put it on a trash arena class it wont do much. Using it on a barb or warden is just stupid, that doesn't mean anything. Ofc a warden wont kill a healer.

 

We have 2 of them at elf. One on a ranger and one on a bd. They dominate, everyone. No matter what class, they will always win 85-90% of the fights. Because of 1 item. Only ones they go 5050 against are each other, or the other people with the book.

 

Besides 1v1s are irrelevant. Arenas the real problem. If you put a team, with 1 or 2 of those books, in any mode. 2v2, 3v3, seals, 5v5, crucible, they will win the other team almost always, even if otherwise equally geared. Especially whrn buffs are involved. Having a shaman/druid or pala in ur team, with castles resist scroll, buffs the % to like 65-70%. Thats 10 second stuns, being 3 seconds long. 5 sec relics being 1,5 seconds. Its just nuts.

 

And yea, idk if 4 is the best option. But it needs a major nerf.

 

 

 

I've seen multiple times it happen , because as you've said, arenas are team compositions not 1v1s , and even with that book it takes a lot for a BD to take a BRB down

 

Nop , Barbarians do struggle against Druids/Shamans , ofc , a full +10 greatness healer, and specially against Paladins , they can easily deal with BRBs.

Even BRBs built as DMG dealers, with 70% speed and 50% penetration, are still going to struggle. They might not die, but they wont kill either if the healer players safely.

 

I do agree that 1v1 is irrelevant , but we have 6 of them total on our server.

2 Hunters , 1 BRB , 1 BD , 1 Seeker and 1 Paladin , so i've seen it work in various ways , and team compositions.

 

And defense % does not scale that well. 

ffff.png.ccabe377a0378e6ed589a6d049625070.png

 

 

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If i had to pick one debuff it would be the cooldown debuff since that was what they did to distortion book so it would kind of make sense. Around 3-4 second cooldown should be good enough. But in combination with that i'd like the character that has the book to display an animation above their head when the books effect is activated, for example the books icon. With this other players in the area know that the books owner is now susceptible to their cc in arena for example.

 

It would also help in 1v1 of course by letting you use a less useful debuff to get rid of the effect before applying a stun or something so it would introduce some counterplay.

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2 hours ago, Arthas said:

And defense % does not scale that well. 

ffff.png.ccabe377a0378e6ed589a6d049625070.png

You can't show 60% duration reduction on all debuffs at all times with no fail and no exceptions, and in the same breath say:

2 hours ago, Arthas said:

The skill does give a pretty big advantage, but it doest not make you unbeatable.

And yes I'm sure it doesn't make you absolutely unbeatable, but you don't have to become unbeatable to be overpowered and in need of a nerf. For example the old Counterattack was mentioned here before, it did not make Bladedancers unbeatable, yet many thought it was unbalanced, and we can all list our examples here.

 

In your own words you said PvP on your server is ''balanced'' because the book exists on both sides, so what if it wasn't? You can't tell me your definition of balance is when you can only fight it with itself. So let's give all classes the same exact skills right?

 

The definition of overpowered is literally being just too powerful for the game, like you could reduce the books effectiveness by 50% and it will still probably be the best book in the game by far, that's how good it is. like instead of 60% it would be 30%, that's still HUGE.

 

 

3 hours ago, Arthas said:

I mean , it doesn't change a lot on the game overall , but the competition for those bosses is big, and the whole fight happens because of how good the skill is.

4 hours ago, Arthas said:

This is also the most expensive item in the game, on my server the last one went for 22 Million gold (which for our economy , is absurd, as most books go for 5million tops) , and its drop rate is ridiculously low , usually drops twice a year , so it should as strong as it is, as it isn't something everyone should have.

This point was already brought up too, but lemme add:

The fight on the book is big because it's too powerful, it doesn't not explain why it should be that powerful in the first place. You can't say people fight a lot over it and pay a lot for it, THEREFORE it should be powerful.

Saying ''The book is expensive, that's why it should be powerful'' is like saying ''Diamonds are expensive, that's why they should be rare''.

It's illogical and it's the other way around.

 

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21 minutes ago, Gladiator said:

You can't show 60% duration reduction on all debuffs at all times with no fail and no exceptions, and in the same breath say:

And yes I'm sure it doesn't make you absolutely unbeatable, but you don't have to become unbeatable to be overpowered and in need of a nerf. For example the old Counterattack was mentioned here before, it did not make Bladedancers unbeatable, yet many thought it was unbalanced, and we can all list our examples here.

 

In your own words you said PvP on your server is ''balanced'' because the book exists on both sides, so what if it wasn't? You can't tell me your definition of balance is when you can only fight it with itself. So let's give all classes the same exact skills right?

 

The definition of overpowered is literally being just too powerful for the game, like you could reduce the books effectiveness by 50% and it will still probably be the best book in the game by far, that's how good it is. like instead of 60% it would be 30%, that's still HUGE.

 

 

This point was already brought up too, but lemme add:

The fight on the book is big because it's too powerful, it doesn't not explain why it should be that powerful in the first place. You can't say people fight a lot over it and pay a lot for it, THEREFORE it should be powerful.

Saying ''The book is expensive, that's why it should be powerful'' is like saying ''Diamonds are expensive, that's why they should be rare''.

It's illogical and it's the other way around.

 

 

I never said it wasn't strong , what i've said is , nerfing as in option 1 , by decreasing is potency , is something that i would agree , depending on the %.

Option 4 is just killing its usefulness, it would be incredibly easy to deal with it , you'd just need a bit of pvp experience and would certainly be able to predict and see a pattern.

 

So i don't think that is something that would be done. Simple

 

And i did not say that it could only be dealt with only by having it.

What i did say was :

3 hours ago, Arthas said:

 

It really does affect a lot how a character works , for example BD vs BD , the one that has it will win 90% of the times if he has the same items/build.

But people usually are not going against same class/build/strategy on arena , and that also is a pretty big component, thats why i said that it can be dealt with.

Every class has classes that it can beat, and classes that it can't unless every star aligns (considering equipment is on the same level)

 

A Barbarian will still suffer against a DRUID/PRIEST even if he has that book , because he will lack the damage necessary to outdmg their heal.

A BD will still suffer against a Barbarian even if he has that book , because BRBs are pretty good against melee physical classes.

 

Edited by Arthas
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33 minutes ago, Gladiator said:

 

This point was already brought up too, but lemme add:

The fight on the book is big because it's too powerful, it doesn't not explain why it should be that powerful in the first place. You can't say people fight a lot over it and pay a lot for it, THEREFORE it should be powerful.

Saying ''The book is expensive, that's why it should be powerful'' is like saying ''Diamonds are expensive, that's why they should be rare''.

It's illogical and it's the other way around.

 

 

What i said is not that it should be OP because it is a lot of competition , what i meant was :

Option 4 will turn it into 5% as usefull as it is now , and in so doing would certainly change how the entire competition for those bosses work.

 

Is it really worth it ?

To change how 3-5 players interact with the game? I'm not sure

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54 minutes ago, Arthas said:

 

What i said is not that it should be OP because it is a lot of competition , what i meant was :

Option 4 will turn it into 5% as usefull as it is now , and in so doing would certainly change how the entire competition for those bosses work.

 

Is it really worth it ?

To change how 3-5 players interact with the game? I'm not sure

Idk about competition changing, people still fight for engi books even though they are relatively useless.

 

It's much better to be changed now, when servers have between 3-8 books, than when theres 15-20 or more of them. It's just a gigantic F#@$ you to everyone. People learn to play their class, spend thousands of dollars and countless hours getting books awards and everything, then theres just this 1 item that says "nope, none of that is relevant anymore".

 

Literally, even if it was cut down to being 10% from all control effects, it would still be a good book. Most books are nowhere near that versatile or strong even then. Theres what. 3% pene, or 4% accu, or 7% speed etc.

 

Idk what would be the best way to change it, but saying it having counterplay would ruin the book is a weird thing to say in a game where most arena fights etc are based on exactly that, knowing your opponent and outplaying them in one way or another 

 

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On 10/16/2021 at 5:08 PM, vavavi said:

This thing.720463388_octo (2) .thumb.jpg.cebc040621b9b1b8d7cc0f8fe56894cb.jpg

With the future balance of skills, there has been a lot of discussion about skills, but not so much about passive skill books. And there is one that desperately needs rework.

 

This monstrous book dropped from the giant raid boss octopus on t5, is easily the most broken, overpowered and broken item the game currently has. And here's why.

 

Let's start by comparing it to its "magic extension" counterpart dropped by the other raid boss on t5, orcinus. One of them extends the positive effects, while the other reduces the duration of the negative effects. On paper, it makes sense, but in reality, 2 things are far from being the same. While the orcinus book is incredibly strong and makes a big difference (as it should), it can be countered with the right play. Octo one really can't be.

 

How this book works now is that it reduces the duration of ANY negative effects processed to your character by the amount equal to your % magic defense. So this is usually around 50%. It sounds strong already, although I suppose it would be just stunning, but that's not what the reality is. When I said any negative effects, I'm talking about all of them. Relics, juices, roars, silences, slowness, dizziness, roots, bleeding. Anything you're going to think about, he raises it cuts in half. It works on so many things, there's no counter game for it (except having the book too).I understand it's rare and should be strong just like its counterpart, but strong shouldn't send directly making you almost immune to any negative effects. 

 

I have some suggestions for how this could be balanced, keeping it equal to magic extension one.

 

1. The% can be halved. For example, if you have 50% magic defense, this would reduce the duration of negative effects by 25%. That would still be strong and make a big difference, but at least it would allow for a little more counterattack.

 

2. Make it based on chance. So 50% magic defense would mean you have a 50% chance to activate and halve the duration.

 

3. Its effectiveness may be limited in some way. For example, let it only work on stuns and root-type abilities, while saps relics etc. are not affected. Something along those lines.

 

4. Allow time to wait. For example, every third negative effect would be affected or could not be activated more than once every 5 seconds. This one is a bit risky in my opinion, because if the timer runs too long, it would be too hard for a nerf.

 

I haven't seen this book being discussed on the English forums, at least, so I thought I might as well mention it.

 

 

Remember that this book is a clear advantage for classes that don't have many control skills. Warlock is useless against players who have this book, I think it's immoral to have a book in the game. Honestly, I don't see the point of having such a book. If we follow a timeline, raid bosses have always given books that improve like skills specifically for PVE, I don't understand why I ran away from that and brought this Book to a raid boss. I even understand bringing attribute books based on events that exist, like: Hallowen is focused on vampirism and all gear, weapons, books, etc. are based on that. Besides being events that happen once a year. 

Another thing I don't understand is where the advantage lies for classes who are severely handicapped by this book. Lately it only comes attributes that are advantages for the DPS classes, where Wizard, Mage, Druid, Priest, etc, can use these attributes of Attack Strength, Piecing Attack, etc. 

 

Edited by Higgings
Translated so that to be posted on International Section
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In my opinion this book should be nerfed yes. 50% reduction of any debuff is a huge advantage against those who don't have the same book, and since the book is extremely rare, few people on the server have one. This book makes a 1vs1 almost impossible, and leads to situations where 1 character can tank another 3 attacking him in the arena, simply because someone has the money to buy a book and gains an absurd advantage against most players on the server.

Edited by Fabr
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On 10/17/2021 at 2:08 AM, vavavi said:

Idk about competition changing, people still fight for engi books even though they are relatively useless.

 

It's much better to be changed now, when servers have between 3-8 books, than when theres 15-20 or more of them. It's just a gigantic F#@$ you to everyone. People learn to play their class, spend thousands of dollars and countless hours getting books awards and everything, then theres just this 1 item that says "nope, none of that is relevant anymore".

 

Literally, even if it was cut down to being 10% from all control effects, it would still be a good book. Most books are nowhere near that versatile or strong even then. Theres what. 3% pene, or 4% accu, or 7% speed etc.

 

Idk what would be the best way to change it, but saying it having counterplay would ruin the book is a weird thing to say in a game where most arena fights etc are based on exactly that, knowing your opponent and outplaying them in one way or another 

 

 

Dont forget 3% crit and not dying to crits :rofl:

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On 10/17/2021 at 3:36 AM, Fabr said:

In my opinion this book should be nerfed yes. 50% reduction of any debuff is a huge advantage against those who don't have the same book, and since the book is extremely rare, few people on the server have one. This book makes a 1vs1 almost impossible, and leads to situations where 1 character can tank another 3 attacking him in the arena, simply because someone has the money to buy a book and gains an absurd advantage against most players on the server.

 

You won't see that book nerfed just because you can't do 1vs1. Keep that in mind.

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1 hour ago, Higgings said:

 

You won't see that book nerfed just because you can't do 1vs1. Keep that in mind.

1vs1 situations sometimes happen in the 2v2 arena, when only 1 person from each team is left fighting each other.

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15 minutes ago, Fabr said:

1vs1 situations sometimes happen in the 2v2 arena, when only 1 person from each team is left fighting each other.

 

It's not the majority of scenarios though.

 

And I'm pretty sure you didn't mean arena situations :smoke:

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4 hours ago, Higgings said:

 

It's not the majority of scenarios though.

 

And I'm pretty sure you didn't mean arena situations :smoke:

Only in the arena. For example, in the scenario I described, you would most likely lose to the other who has the book, you can't fight someone who only receives half of their stuns and debuffs. And even if your partner was alive and you and him attacking with control skills the rival that has the book, he would be stopped for a few seconds and then he would return to normal. It's like 2 people stunning is just one, because all the control is halved. In other words, you are at a tremendous disadvantage.

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2 hours ago, Fabr said:

Only in the arena. For example, in the scenario I described, you would most likely lose to the other who has the book, you can't fight someone who only receives half of their stuns and debuffs. And even if your partner was alive and you and him attacking with control skills the rival that has the book, he would be stopped for a few seconds and then he would return to normal. It's like 2 people stunning is just one, because all the control is halved. In other words, you are at a tremendous disadvantage.

 

That's correct, but don't forget that this book is dropped once every 6 months maybe. And it's a priceless book, so you can't really ask for a "nerf" or something. That's how I see it tbh. 

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1 hour ago, Higgings said:

 

That's correct, but don't forget that this book is dropped once every 6 months maybe. And it's a priceless book, so you can't really ask for a "nerf" or something. That's how I see it tbh. 

Again, you can't use its price as an excuse for it being overpowered or why it should stay overpowered... The question here is ''Is it OP or not'' the price doesn't and shouldn't even matter in the discussion.

 

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2 hours ago, Higgings said:

That's correct, but don't forget that this book is dropped once every 6 months maybe. And it's a priceless book, so you can't really ask for a "nerf" or something. That's how I see it tbh. 

So what if it does drop once in 6 month . We should let only 2-3 ppl to have fun and do what they want just bcs they can spend money on game

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1 hour ago, Gladiator said:

Again, you can't use its price as an excuse for it being overpowered or why it should stay overpowered... The question here is ''Is it OP or not'' the price doesn't and shouldn't even matter in the discussion.

 

Welp, good thing you brought this up. This is definitely going to change because that's what devs want. Therefore, they can balance the game. So what if they spent +20mill of golds or I should say, $1000s on a book in a game. That's their mistake, and they should've known the nerf is going to happen eventually. Most of these players in defence is because they have the book or their friend. Welcome to the gaming life. Community vs your personal feelings.

 

 

 

Edited by Speedom
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11 hours ago, Gladiator said:

Again, you can't use its price as an excuse for it being overpowered or why it should stay overpowered... The question here is ''Is it OP or not'' the price doesn't and shouldn't even matter in the discussion.

 

 

More than a reason, it's a consequence. It wouldn't be overpriced if it wasn't broken. And you wouldn't really have a problem with that either unless there are like 5-6 people with such books, which it will eventually be in... uhm... 2 years? 3?

 

 

Maybe just put a maximum limit (like 30%), so that even if you have got in percentage 50+% def, you would still reduce stuns by 30% of their actual duration. 

 

9 hours ago, Speedom said:

Most of these players in defence is because they have the book or their friend.

 

Devs know pretty well how to destroy the strenght of a book. Distortion of Life was a clear example. From godlike to nooblike in a blink of an eye. But that's a mere example anyway. I won't deny to have taken such change personally... :kill-me-crazy-rabbit-emoticon:

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11 hours ago, Higgings said:

 

More than a reason, it's a consequence. It wouldn't be overpriced if it wasn't broken. And you wouldn't really have a problem with that either unless there are like 5-6 people with such books, which it will eventually be in... uhm... 2 years? 3?

 

 

Maybe just put a maximum limit (like 30%), so that even if you have got in percentage 50+% def, you would still reduce stuns by 30% of their actual duration. 

 

 

Devs know pretty well how to destroy the strenght of a book. Distortion of Life was a clear example. From godlike to nooblike in a blink of an eye. But that's a mere example anyway. I won't deny to have taken such change personally... :kill-me-crazy-rabbit-emoticon:

They can change it to 30% flat without interaction with magic deff cuz to be real almost everyone have around 50%.

As for my opinion i support higgys opnion the book have like 1% drop rate its most rare book in the game it drops 1 time a year sometimes it dont drop at all, its to be expected to be verry good, and last as jcbreff said the players who are likely to own it are already almost unbeatable and sure they still can lose vs team of well organized players with the same amps and gear in arena even with the book, unless more than 2-3 players have it but that won't happen soon.

Also i like how nobody say anything about merman tanky armors wich are also broken alot in arena and are more accessible than this book.

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3 hours ago, coldravens said:

Also i like how nobody say anything about merman tanky armors wich are also broken alot in arena and are more accessible than this book.

At least this a buff that can be removed by certain skills/relics, also mana draining would turn it off. So at least there are ways to counter it.

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15 hours ago, Higgings said:

 

Devs know pretty well how to destroy the strenght of a book. Distortion of Life was a clear example. From godlike to nooblike in a blink of an eye. But that's a mere example anyway. I won't deny to have taken such change personally... :kill-me-crazy-rabbit-emoticon:

Distort of life is still a strong book though. Worth easily 10m in my eyes atleast. Only thing that was removed was immortality whenever you were stunned. It's still a great utility that gives the user anything from 1-5k extra hp per fight(depending on luck and class). Hardly bad for one skill slot, especially when the comparison point is books like 4% accu, 3% pene or 6% ls.

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8 hours ago, vavavi said:

Distort of life is still a strong book though. Worth easily 10m in my eyes atleast. Only thing that was removed was immortality whenever you were stunned. It's still a great utility that gives the user anything from 1-5k extra hp per fight(depending on luck and class). Hardly bad for one skill slot, especially when the comparison point is books like 4% accu, 3% pene or 6% ls.

 

Strong book... I would say decent. But I wouldn't pay 10m for that now. It can save you for 1 hit. Terrible situation if you rely on that in many vs many scenarios. It was DK's only mean to give a reason for Saturation to even exist, but now it became a joke in this sense (and this is why I took the nerf kinda personally).

 

I agree though that people abused it on towns and it needed a nerf. Just saying that, maybe, 1 sec is enough instead of 2...

 

Anyway, that's off topic. Apologies. 

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Any class that isnt a tank or a high amped mage with passive tank from barrier, gets at best like 1 heal from distortion now if its 1vX and you need a lot of money to charm lifesteal and get the rest of the ls books that are actually somewhat useful. It's nowhere near worth 10m and honestly i wouldnt buy it even for 6m now maybe 4-5 at best. If they made it work for roots and silences then we might be talking about it being decent in its current state.

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9 hours ago, Raislin said:

Any class that isnt a tank or a high amped mage with passive tank from barrier, gets at best like 1 heal from distortion now if its 1vX and you need a lot of money to charm lifesteal and get the rest of the ls books that are actually somewhat useful. It's nowhere near worth 10m and honestly i wouldnt buy it even for 6m now maybe 4-5 at best. If they made it work for roots and silences then we might be talking about it being decent in its current state.

Even 1 heal on a non tank class translates to like 1500-1800 extra hp though if vs a damager. If against a caster its likely itll trigger twice for 400-600 ea. Thats still equal to having 4hp books, from one heal. It's easily the strongest book compared to any other book, aside from orcinus and octo. But yea, off topic once more.

 

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On 10/16/2021 at 6:36 PM, Itzblaack said:

Remember that this book is a clear advantage for classes that don't have many control skills. Warlock is useless against players who have this book

Honestly, your comment is as irrelevant as this post 😄

The debuff is still halved, but it still exists there, you just need to recalculate your skill time. A necromancer for example can still continue in the full control combo even if the opponent has this book, and then there's Warlock which has two skills that this book doesn't work on (weak zone and dark circle)

This book is as strong as one by Black elm, which will give everything an advantage about PvE, as well as the "Fury of the Deep" which will give 100% advantage in Gvg "mermem trials"

You just need to know how to play agains. If the book is in a dmg, you just need to focus on kill him. If is in a healer, you only need the skill what remove buffs (like chief and mage). If is in tank, you just need to heal the target the tank is hitting

It's all about strategy and combination of class and skills

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21 minutes ago, King Death said:

This book is as strong as one by Black elm, which will give everything an advantage about PvE, as well as the "Fury of the Deep" which will give 100% advantage in Gvg "

This. This is the funniest sh*t ive read in ages. Comparing 10% crit dmg to cutting every possible debuff in half.

 

The whole problem with the book is that there is no counterplay. It works on everything.

Edited by vavavi
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On 10/22/2021 at 4:32 AM, vavavi said:

Even 1 heal on a non tank class translates to like 1500-1800 extra hp though if vs a damager. If against a caster its likely itll trigger twice for 400-600 ea. Thats still equal to having 4hp books, from one heal. It's easily the strongest book compared to any other book, aside from orcinus and octo. But yea, off topic once more.

 

 

Anything which makes you heal yourself by 1.8k with one hit will most likely hit you by 1.2k per hit. It's not that much, if you think that such class might potentially be a dps, thus dealing that much per second. 

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