Someone needs to fix Arena Modes

[Gladiator 1145]

I've been playing the game for a couple of years short of a decade now, and I've just came back from a break. After almost a year away from the game, I decided come back for a few days mainly for a little bit of Arena, because that's what I enjoyed the most about this game. But few days in and I remember exactly why I left: Stupid Arena system design.

 

Who's the genius at AIGRIND that thought to himself it would be a good idea to make 5v5 4v4 and 3v3 modes and not let people que in with a full party of their own teammates? I really would like to have an insight on this dev's genius, maybe there is a bigger plan that my simple brain does not fathom, so please enlighten me.

Most of the fights end up in uneven 5v2 or 4v2 fights, because you can't have more than parties of 2 and people of the opposing sides would let their friends and allies demand to get into the enemies team and then they outnumber them and easily win with no chance. If devs don't realize that this happens, they either are disconnected from the reality of their game or they're just fine with it and believe in this dumb design. And yes it's dumb, because it's not about who plays better, but about who can sabotage the enemies team with afk characters the best. FFS, The old 3v3 seal was the most fun mode and had the most intense fights that I've ever had, and you replaced it with a 4v2 mode. Congrats guys you're doing great. What's next? Only solo demands in 2v2? What's stopping you from ruining that too?

 

I just wanna know what were they thinking? Who greenlit this? And please don't even try to tell me it's an attempt to balance team matchmaking, it doesn't work and it never did. I'm sorry but it's failed attempt that hasn't worked for years, and as far as balancing goes, it's the farthest you will ever be.

 

And I know some people will say just deal with it and do the same thing, yeah we do. But what's the point in winning uneven fights? You can't tell me that's what PvP is about in AIGRIND's vision. If so, then I don't know what to tell you.

 

[Nolan 1345]

Hi there, 

 

Years ago the game only had three arena modes, 2v2, 3v3 and 5v5. The truth is that nobody really played 5v5 that much and was only spamming it with win/lose groups to quickly get the arena gears.

 

In case you missed the news, we have some new modes now and they change every Arena Season; 2v2, 3v3 (normal), 3v3 (crucible), 3v3 (temple of seals), 4v4 (temple of seals), 4v4 (crucible) and 5x5.

 

With the new system, arenas like this were brought back to life, making people actually demand and fight for arena points and imperials. (Also giving weaker players a chance, since they will hardly fight a full greatness team many times in a row).

 

Not having control over the teammates you will fight with is harder indeed – but you must have in mind that this is equal for everyone, nobody has the control. Nonetheless, you can ask your friends to demand at the same time as you, and if you're lucky enough, you'll be in the same team.

 

Although, I understand that this system can open a window for people willing to play dirty with Afk characters – because they are not breaking any rules (yet).

 

If you have any suggestions on how we can improve the actual arena system, you are more than welcome to make it in the suggestions section. 

[Gladiator 1145]

I'm all for innovations in arena and new modes. But here it comes down to big alliances controlling who wins and who loses due to the fact that they'd have more players demanding. And I personally don't wanna spend 1-2 hours to get 25 daily wins, just because the opponents have more players demanding and I'm more likely to have their afk characters on my team than my own guild. The game already requires a lot of time to do the daily duties.

 

And I do get the idea behind the new systems, but it's not really serving its purpose.

 

For example:
Timmy is an upcoming player who doesn't not belong to any alliance and want to get his hands on some PvP gear. (this is the demographic you're trying to help right?)

Unfortunately, 2 guilds/alliances are fighting for the top spots in the season, which is usually the case all the time in all modes. So Timmy will always be put in with a bunch of greatness players, and most of the time, he will be weakening his own team to lose, there is just not enough Timmy's that can balance out the greatness players on both sides. Now this would have been fine and good if there was another Timmy on the other team, but the fact is, these Timmy's would rather make some sort of a deal with one of the fighting guilds to get their wins, it's not like the Timmy's are fighting each other and greatness players are fighting each other, which would also be a good outcome.

 

The end result is a loophole for the fighting guilds to have their dummy characters sabotage the opponents team, and in my opinion, an abusable system isn't a good system. Especially that it's mostly abused, it's not like it's a rare occurrence, it happens more often than helping out weaker players.

 

Solution(?): 

I don't know how hard that would be to implement, but I don't see other options other than some way to separate greatness and weak players.

And maybe the simplest way to fix it would be to allow only fully made parties to match against other fully made parties. And if there are Timmy's out there that wanna fight they'd demand without a full party so they'd meet only the same type of people, basically a separate que.

For example in 4v4, only a pre-made party of 4 people will meet a pre-made party of 4. These will probably be the top guilds fighting for the top spots (or the daily wins), and they would have an even fight that can't be sabotaged. And people that don't belong to the top guilds and/or don't have fleshed out arena gear would demand solo or with 1 or 2 other friends, but not a full party for that mode. These would fight for their daily wins if they wanna do that.

That way top guilds would meet each other and Timmy's would fight each other. 

 

And it might lead to lesser fights in general due to separating the matchmaking, but at least even fights, quality over quantity, which is something the analytics can't tell. And to increase the amount of solo-demanding Timmy's, you just keep arena fresh for them with incentives, such as the daily wins.

And your analytics might tell you that these modes are brought back to life, yes maybe you did that, because you basically monetized it better and gave more incentive for those who aren't interested in the top ranks. Which is great, but I don't think it's because of these weaker players getting a chance in the fights.

 

Now what I suggested might not a be bulletproof system, and people are going to find ways to abuse every system, and I'm not asking for a perfect system in one blow, but more improvements over time, this is a system that's been going on for like what? 2 years now? And it's being abused more than used so maybe it's time to change it.

 

P.S. I know the title was a bit exaggerated, I thought it'd generate attention and it kinda worked :) No one should be fired or anything.

[KingEricc 10]

On 9/20/2021 at 10:05 AM, Gladiator said:

I'm all for innovations in arena and new modes. But here it comes down to big alliances controlling who wins and who loses due to the fact that they'd have more players demanding. And I personally don't wanna spend 1-2 hours to get 25 daily wins, just because the opponents have more players demanding and I'm more likely to have their afk characters on my team than my own guild. The game already requires a lot of time to do the daily duties.

 

And I do get the idea behind the new systems, but it's not really serving its purpose.

 

For example:
Timmy is an upcoming player who doesn't not belong to any alliance and want to get his hands on some PvP gear. (this is the demographic you're trying to help right?)

Unfortunately, 2 guilds/alliances are fighting for the top spots in the season, which is usually the case all the time in all modes. So Timmy will always be put in with a bunch of greatness players, and most of the time, he will be weakening his own team to lose, there is just not enough Timmy's that can balance out the greatness players on both sides. Now this would have been fine and good if there was another Timmy on the other team, but the fact is, these Timmy's would rather make some sort of a deal with one of the fighting guilds to get their wins, it's not like the Timmy's are fighting each other and greatness players are fighting each other, which would also be a good outcome.

 

The end result is a loophole for the fighting guilds to have their dummy characters sabotage the opponents team, and in my opinion, an abusable system isn't a good system. Especially that it's mostly abused, it's not like it's a rare occurrence, it happens more often than helping out weaker players.

 

Solution(?): 

I don't know how hard that would be to implement, but I don't see other options other than some way to separate greatness and weak players.

And maybe the simplest way to fix it would be to allow only fully made parties to match against other fully made parties. And if there are Timmy's out there that wanna fight they'd demand without a full party so they'd meet only the same type of people, basically a separate que.

For example in 4v4, only a pre-made party of 4 people will meet a pre-made party of 4. These will probably be the top guilds fighting for the top spots (or the daily wins), and they would have an even fight that can't be sabotaged. And people that don't belong to the top guilds and/or don't have fleshed out arena gear would demand solo or with 1 or 2 other friends, but not a full party for that mode. These would fight for their daily wins if they wanna do that.

That way top guilds would meet each other and Timmy's would fight each other. 

 

And it might lead to lesser fights in general due to separating the matchmaking, but at least even fights, quality over quantity, which is something the analytics can't tell. And to increase the amount of solo-demanding Timmy's, you just keep arena fresh for them with incentives, such as the daily wins.

And your analytics might tell you that these modes are brought back to life, yes maybe you did that, because you basically monetized it better and gave more incentive for those who aren't interested in the top ranks. Which is great, but I don't think it's because of these weaker players getting a chance in the fights.

 

Now what I suggested might not a be bulletproof system, and people are going to find ways to abuse every system, and I'm not asking for a perfect system in one blow, but more improvements over time, this is a system that's been going on for like what? 2 years now? And it's being abused more than used so maybe it's time to change it.

 

P.S. I know the title was a bit exaggerated, I thought it'd generate attention and it kinda worked :) No one should be fired or anything.

Honestly not a bad idea..

[Jcbref 610]

On 9/20/2021 at 5:05 PM, Gladiator said:

people are going to find ways to abuse every system

in this example someone with greatness could solo dmd and get those weaker players

[Gladiator 1145]

3 hours ago, Jcbreff said:

in this example someone with greatness could solo dmd and get those weaker players

Yeah but that already happens

[Suzanne 1]

Read all this thread🧵...

I feel like Mr. Gladiator is reading my frustration every time I tried to play arena (what is funny). People kills me like I just where nude, then, teammates gently told me: "don't demand u noob!"

Arena is a prohibited zone to new players, there's no newbie level.

This is a key:

 

Edited March 17, 2022 by Suzanne
duplicated attachment

[Speedom 281]

On 3/17/2022 at 11:37 PM, Suzanne said:

Read all this thread🧵...

I feel like Mr. Gladiator is reading my frustration every time I tried to play arena (what is funny). People kills me like I just where nude, then, teammates gently told me: "don't demand u noob!"

Arena is a prohibited zone to new players, there's no newbie level.

This is a key:

 

On top of that, going against greatness with guild buffs, rare books, mermen gear, arena books, castle buffs, and castle pots & scrolls. In addition, even when they achieved greatness, they still spam to take the top ranks for arena minions, arena skills, and costumes. 

 

RIP 

[El Pengu 24]

On 9/20/2021 at 11:05 AM, Gladiator said:

I don't know how hard that would be to implement, but I don't see other options other than some way to separate greatness and weak players.

And maybe the simplest way to fix it would be to allow only fully made parties to match against other fully made

the simplies would be just add a point system to gears and such for example a pve blue gear of lvl 25 gets 200 gear points wile a lvl 30 greatness gets 1k or so

 

[Suzanne 1]

On 4/2/2022 at 7:12 PM, El Pengu said:

the simplies would be just add a point system to gears and such for example a pve blue gear of lvl 25 gets 200 gear points wile a lvl 30 greatness gets 1k or so

 

🤔 Maybe a rank based on player stats, while in arena blocks gear so no one can change its equipment 👩‍🔧

[Hossein 64]

On 9/20/2021 at 5:09 AM, Gladiator said:

I've been playing the game for a couple of years short of a decade now, and I've just came back from a break. After almost a year away from the game, I decided come back for a few days mainly for a little bit of Arena, because that's what I enjoyed the most about this game. But few days in and I remember exactly why I left: Stupid Arena system design.

 

Who's the genius at AIGRIND that thought to himself it would be a good idea to make 5v5 4v4 and 3v3 modes and not let people que in with a full party of their own teammates? I really would like to have an insight on this dev's genius, maybe there is a bigger plan that my simple brain does not fathom, so please enlighten me.

Most of the fights end up in uneven 5v2 or 4v2 fights, because you can't have more than parties of 2 and people of the opposing sides would let their friends and allies demand to get into the enemies team and then they outnumber them and easily win with no chance. If devs don't realize that this happens, they either are disconnected from the reality of their game or they're just fine with it and believe in this dumb design. And yes it's dumb, because it's not about who plays better, but about who can sabotage the enemies team with afk characters the best. FFS, The old 3v3 seal was the most fun mode and had the most intense fights that I've ever had, and you replaced it with a 4v2 mode. Congrats guys you're doing great. What's next? Only solo demands in 2v2? What's stopping you from ruining that too?

 

I just wanna know what were they thinking? Who greenlit this? And please don't even try to tell me it's an attempt to balance team matchmaking, it doesn't work and it never did. I'm sorry but it's failed attempt that hasn't worked for years, and as far as balancing goes, it's the farthest you will ever be.

 

And I know some people will say just deal with it and do the same thing, yeah we do. But what's the point in winning uneven fights? You can't tell me that's what PvP is about in AIGRIND's vision. If so, then I don't know what to tell you.

 

so ur saying getting in a full pt with +10 greatness vs random players who cant get in party would be fair? im playing on Eu-emerald server and its elves using afk chars most of times.

 

they should just do something about afk players elfs got better skills but still using afks full time but tbh game has been changed alot and always needed improves

[Keltas 12]

On 9/20/2021 at 10:51 AM, Nolan said:

Hi there, 

 

Years ago the game only had three arena modes, 2v2, 3v3 and 5v5. The truth is that nobody really played 5v5 that much and was only spamming it with win/lose groups to quickly get the arena gears.

 

In case you missed the news, we have some new modes now and they change every Arena Season; 2v2, 3v3 (normal), 3v3 (crucible), 3v3 (temple of seals), 4v4 (temple of seals), 4v4 (crucible) and 5x5.

 

With the new system, arenas like this were brought back to life, making people actually demand and fight for arena points and imperials. (Also giving weaker players a chance, since they will hardly fight a full greatness team many times in a row).

 

Not having control over the teammates you will fight with is harder indeed – but you must have in mind that this is equal for everyone, nobody has the control. Nonetheless, you can ask your friends to demand at the same time as you, and if you're lucky enough, you'll be in the same team.

 

Although, I understand that this system can open a window for people willing to play dirty with Afk characters – because they are not breaking any rules (yet).

 

If you have any suggestions on how we can improve the actual arena system, you are more than welcome to make it in the suggestions section. 

how can you even say that you removed full premade bcoz win lose spam??? when everybody doing it now so normal ppl cant even get pvp gear.... we are waiting for 2v2 arena over 10 min even tho there is 12 request applied and after it throw us in we get shredded by instakill and then wait another 10 mins... make better MM aigrind dnt dnt ruin and maybe realy stop win/lose spams no just excuses in 2014 when i was playing every day everybody was doing 5v5 and now all arenas are dead spammed by bots and tryhard blockers