Charmer unbalanced

[Lwn 31]

2 minutes ago, Rhaast said:

charmer is really strong, but seriously, there are other classes that are just as strong.

I hope that next att they do a decent balance and don't kill the class with nerfs

Still a blade dancer can hit 60%  Resilience charmer to 1.2-1.3k damage which doesn't make any sense and  can kill other classes easily.

[Fabr 116]

1 hour ago, Lwn said:

Still a blade dancer can hit 60%  Resilience charmer to 1.2-1.3k damage which doesn't make any sense and  can kill other classes easily.

And the charmer's dog does 1k damage, not counting criticals with this relic.

Edited August 16, 2021 by Fabr

[Drakoslayd 652]

11 minutes ago, Fabr said:

And the charmer's dog does 1k damage, not counting criticals with this relic.

Just limit the damage to say, 600 per dog 

[Fabr 116]

18 minutes ago, Drakoknight said:

Just limit the damage to say, 600 per dog 

Doing this will also nerf the low lvl charmers, which would not be good. Dog damage alone isn't an issue, but when you put in damage boost, damage reduction, life boost, and criticals with resilience, it's unbalanced. They could nerf the summoner's skill to decrease the increased damage a little, this would already help to decrease the power of this relic a little too.

[Drakoslayd 652]

1 minute ago, Fabr said:

Doing this will also nerf the low lvl charmers, which would not be good. Dog damage alone isn't an issue, but when you put in damage boost, damage reduction, life boost, and criticals with resilience, it's unbalanced. They could nerf the summoner's skill to decrease the increased damage a little, this would already help to decrease the power of this relic a little too.

This is better. Say if the main character has 60 dmg increase then have say 20 or 15% damage increase for the dog 

Edited August 16, 2021 by Drakoknight
Sent to early

[Speedom 281]

I'll say the summoner skill is fine where it's at. The PvP system is just broken due to the resiliency and ferocity. The Call skill doesn't do 100% of the melee dmg. (Opinion)I think every summoner should have a skill.

 

For hybrid Charmers, the Raven deals more dmg than the dogs. PvP hybrid Charmers, the Raven is more of a threat than the dogs. Why? Because with a critical build hybrid Charmer, the bird output magic dmg slightly more and the critical heals. This boost Charmer's survivability.

 

The downfall to that Raven is how squishy it is. It'll die in 1-2 hits easily. Honestly, I prefer the bird to have range due to it being squishy. However, the way how players are in this game, it'll make staff Charmer "broken". Honestly, staff Charmers are underrated.

[Salazam 535]

1 hour ago, Drakoknight said:

This is better. Say if the main character has 60 dmg increase then have say 20 or 15% damage increase for the dog 

so you mean a charmer with 1k physical damage would only hit the dog 150? is a joke right?

[Speedom 281]

Just now, Rhaast said:

so you mean a charmer with 1k physical damage would only hit the dog 150? is a joke right?

Lol that's not even a good Dad joke.

[Lwn 31]

50 minutes ago, Speedom said:

Lol that's not even a good Dad joke.

Still the charmer dogs die by 1-2 hits from a bd

 

I don't understand how u guys say charmer is op in arena mode. Only pve cd users can spawn 5 dogs where as druids can do the same.

 

In arena mode a PvP charmer can only summon 2 dogs and elf can counter it by rushing and easy win.

[Speedom 281]

7 minutes ago, Lwn said:

Still the charmer dogs die by 1-2 hits from a bd

 

I don't understand how u guys say charmer is op in arena mode. Only pve cd users can spawn 5 dogs where as druids can do the same.

 

In arena mode a PvP charmer can only summon 2 dogs and elf can counter it by rushing and easy win.

Every class is op if you make them OP. Which required a lot of money and grinding. Like you said 2 dogs in a realistic arena match. Still, Charmers can be counter.

[Ashdeath 15]

I think instead of complain about how op certain classes are people should try find ways to counter them. Like for charmers, if a mage can't beat them solo it's np. Mage is generally a weak class 1v1. I have not seen it win vs many classes if 1v1. However mage could beat charmer easy if they had a wd to aggro all the minions or if a druid spammed stuns on the charmer. The charmer wouldn't be able to summon minions and would die easy. As for bd you need to either kite them or keep them stunned. All classes can be beaten if you try rather than complain about how op they are. As for map 2 wars, each side has their own classes that best for guarding flag. Charmer minions can easily be pushed away by mages with chain skill or templar or pala or aggroed by wardens. It's just a matter of if you try or not.

[Fabr 116]

9 hours ago, Ashdeath said:

I think instead of complain about how op certain classes are people should try find ways to counter them. Like for charmers, if a mage can't beat them solo it's np. Mage is generally a weak class 1v1. I have not seen it win vs many classes if 1v1. However mage could beat charmer easy if they had a wd to aggro all the minions or if a druid spammed stuns on the charmer. The charmer wouldn't be able to summon minions and would die easy. As for bd you need to either kite them or keep them stunned. All classes can be beaten if you try rather than complain about how op they are. As for map 2 wars, each side has their own classes that best for guarding flag. Charmer minions can easily be pushed away by mages with chain skill or templar or pala or aggroed by wardens. It's just a matter of if you try or not.

But what about the arena? Guards don't go there. The best option would be a pala, but it doesn't have the same as a wd, once the shield breaks it won't last long (not to mention that a chief can remove the shield). Stuning the dog helps, but it doesn't solve everything, it will only prevent you from taking more damage from him for a few seconds, but he will still be there. This could help if it was in the 2v2, 3x3 or 5x5 arena that after everyone died the battle was over, but in the Crucibles arena, it didn't. Also, charmers don't die easily. They have heavy equipment and can use shields, and can buff your def hp and block, can use set 32. Some  charmers also use the bird to heal, even though they have little magic damage, and they still have decent healing.

Edited August 16, 2021 by Fabr

[Fabr 116]

By the way, speaking of arena crucibles, charmer are awful in them. Because if your party doesn't survive the first few seconds of the battle (where everyone is alive), it's quite a game over, because the charmer will summon another dog, and then another. The option is to kill the dogs, but they are resistant to take a few hits, and if it takes too long to kill the charmer himself, he will end up summoning another dog. And he will summon another dog immediately after reviving. Like I said, awful.

[Fabr 116]

13 hours ago, Speedom said:

I'll say the summoner skill is fine where it's at. The PvP system is just broken due to the resiliency and ferocity. The Call skill doesn't do 100% of the melee dmg. (Opinion)I think every summoner should have a skill.

 

For hybrid Charmers, the Raven deals more dmg than the dogs. PvP hybrid Charmers, the Raven is more of a threat than the dogs. Why? Because with a critical build hybrid Charmer, the bird output magic dmg slightly more and the critical heals. This boost Charmer's survivability.

 

The downfall to that Raven is how squishy it is. It'll die in 1-2 hits easily. Honestly, I prefer the bird to have range due to it being squishy. However, the way how players are in this game, it'll make staff Charmer "broken". Honestly, staff Charmers are underrated.

In my opinion staff charmer is weaker than mace charmer, because if the bird dies it loses almost all its healing potential. If I had a charmer I would do a hybrid build, so I could use the dogs and the bird together, having a balance of damage and heal, and I could still support the group by putting the bird to heal someone too.

Edited August 16, 2021 by Fabr

[Salazam 535]

3 hours ago, Fabr said:

Na minha opinião, o encantador de cajado é mais fraco do que o encantador de maça, porque se o pássaro morrer, ele perde quase todo o seu potencial de cura. Se eu tivesse um encantador, faria uma construção híbrida, para que pudesse usar os cães e o pássaro juntos, tendo um equilíbrio entre danos e cura, e ainda poderia apoiar o grupo colocando o pássaro para curar alguém também.

perfect balance

 

I think dogs need a little attention.
before the rework that happened in the spring the skill cooldown was 30s, and the duration of the dogs was 30s.
after the corrections, the skill had a 22s cooldown, but the dogs had a duration of 26s, 4s longer than the skill's cooldown.

if I were to nerf the charmer, it would reduce the duration of the dogs to 22s, and decrease the power of the Demon Pact by 10% at all levels.

[Speedom 281]

17 minutes ago, Rhaast said:

perfect balance

 

I think dogs need a little attention.
before the rework that happened in the spring the skill cooldown was 30s, and the duration of the dogs was 30s.
after the corrections, the skill had a 22s cooldown, but the dogs had a duration of 26s, 4s longer than the skill's cooldown.

if I were to nerf the charmer, it would reduce the duration of the dogs to 22s, and decrease the power of the Demon Pact by 10% at all levels.

Someone came here to flex. That's a lot of stacking. Defense still low with a shield

[Salazam 535]

35 minutes ago, Speedom said:

Someone came here to flex. That's a lot of stacking. Defense still low with a shield

I have little amp in defensive items.

[Fabr 116]

1 hour ago, Rhaast said:

perfect balance

 

I think dogs need a little attention.
before the rework that happened in the spring the skill cooldown was 30s, and the duration of the dogs was 30s.
after the corrections, the skill had a 22s cooldown, but the dogs had a duration of 26s, 4s longer than the skill's cooldown.

if I were to nerf the charmer, it would reduce the duration of the dogs to 22s, and decrease the power of the Demon Pact by 10% at all levels.

Yeah, for me this charmer would be perfect.

About the dogs...yes that change would be nice too, but nothing would change about the relic letting them give them multiple critics in a row.

 

[Deimus 28]

On 8/16/2021 at 11:17 PM, Fabr said:

Yeah, for me this charmer would be perfect.

About the dogs...yes that change would be nice too, but nothing would change about the relic letting them give them multiple critics in a row.

 

The charmer becoming like was before no thanks!! It was hard to dg in the first map, even the 1 dg was awful to do!! If you can't play against than isn't the class problem but a player problem!! Not everyone have money to get a relic!! Like i said before to nerf this class then nerf Templars and Wardens also!! And if you nerf do mind nerf Druids :P

[Deimus 28]

You got what you wanted @Fabr they are going to nerf charmer because you can't win 🤬

[Fabr 116]

4 hours ago, Deimus said:

You got what you wanted @Fabr they are going to nerf charmer because you can't win 🤬

It's not a question of "can't win", charmer is not invincible, but it's also very difficult to deal with him and his pets.

Because a single pet does more damage than damage classes and aoe damage classes, because of a stupid relic. If you took 2k crits seeing your party also take the same damage because of the dog's aoe damage effect, caused by a single relic, you'd understand what I'm talking about.

Before someone says "kill the dogs", as if it were as easy as attacking the city mannequin, I want to say that for you to kill this pet, you need to spend your skills, or even break your own combo, just to kill a pet.

Classes like even a mage would need some hits and skills to kill them, and besides if you're VS a good group, you won't even be able to effectively kill the charmer without leaving a pet or two alive.

I wanted to see if you would dare to go attack the pet with a shaman healing the charmer and the rest of his party, letting the charmer survive long enough to summon another pet.

But as I said charmer is not invincible, many people have complained about him on the forum, and with good reason. It's not because they can't win, but because it's out of balance.

[Danindo 10]

i think by limiting charmer to summon only 1 dog+bird is enough fair.

im not talk about 1 charmer but many.

[Salazam 535]

2 minutes ago, Danindo said:

i think by limiting charmer to summon only 1 dog+bird is enough fair.

im not talk about 1 charmer but many.

do you think it's fair for a player to need 3 skills, being 2 specialists to summon only 1 dog? lman

[Danindo 10]

1 minute ago, Rhaast said:

do you think it's fair for a player to need 3 skills, being 2 specialists to summon only 1 dog? lman

imagine 10 charmer vs 10 non summoning class

[Deimus 28]

Can you do 1 dg on map 1 with 1 dog, elf?

 

[Salazam 535]

59 minutes ago, Danindo said:

imagine 10 charmer vs 10 non summoning class

charmer is a class of evocations, it has all its kit geared towards that, the other classes without evocations don't depend on animals to do damage. it's very easy to imagine

Charmer's problem is not the amount of animals, but the damage the wolves are dealing in pvp. and part of that is due to a bug, which was already mentioned by one of the devs. @snorlax

[Drakoslayd 652]

2 hours ago, Danindo said:

i think by limiting charmer to summon only 1 dog+bird is enough fair.

im not talk about 1 charmer but many.

Far too limiting. I would say 3 or 4 max 

[Speedom 281]

59 minutes ago, Drakoknight said:

Far too limiting. I would say 3 or 4 max 

I agree. 3 definitely reasonable. 4+ is overkill

[Salazam 535]

after the last balance update the charmer saw its power increase considerably with damage builds, especially when associated with fury and Christmas reliques.

 

In this post I'll give you some suggestions of things that could change, in a way that weakens the charm without making the class unplayable.

 

CALL

 

in this skill there are several change options.

 

1 - reduce cooldown from 22s to 20s, reduce duration of wolves from 26s to 20s

reduce wolves damage by 30% +/-, and add critical damage to wolves

remove the two christmas reliques from the skill

 

2 - add a limit of pets summoned by this skill.

example maximum 2 or 3 wolves per charmer.

reduce wolves' damage and add critical damage to them

increase the wolves' life limit

reduce skill cooldown to 15~16s (remember we now have a limit on how many wolves we can summon)

remove the Christmas relics from the skill

 

DEMONIAC PACT 

 

this ability may see some nerf in your strength, but I would like to make a change to the pets' defensive effect.

I made a post with a suggestion https://forum.warspear-online.com/index.php?/topic/257785-charmer-in-gvgs/

 

the damage reduction bonus from this skill could be exchanged for something that helps the charmer when pets are killed.  a good option would be area damage.

 

maybe the list of nerfs is ready, but it's never too late to give suggestions :)

[Salazam 535]

26 minutes ago, Avamanyar said:

What he is trying to say is that there's already another charmer complaint topic. Here's the link for that.

I'm not complaining, but trying to stop the devs from destroying the class

Edited August 23, 2021 by Rhaast

[Ogull 421]

9 hours ago, Rhaast said:

I'm not complaining, but trying to stop the devs from destroying the class

that i can relate to...

[Higgings 1830]

@Rhaast I have merged your topic with this one, since this one is still active. Please, let's refrain from creating several topics with the same content in them, as it would result on flood, which goes against our rules. 

 

P.S. 

12 hours ago, Rhaast said:

1 - reduce cooldown from 22s to 20s, reduce duration of wolves from 26s to 20s

reduce wolves damage by 30% +/-, and add critical damage to wolves

remove the two christmas reliques from the skill

 

This is not balancing the charmer, but destroying it. Relics can't be removed from a skill, or it will result that old players will have a relic which new players can put any longer. 

 

I think we will see a nerf on Dogs, but in terms of their defense; I would just remove Resilience from them. This way dogs become more squishy (2-3 hits and they are dead) but they can still deal a lot of damage. 

[Deimus 28]

6 hours ago, Higgings said:

@Rhaast I have merged your topic with this one, since this one is still active. Please, let's refrain from creating several topics with the same content in them, as it would result on flood, which goes against our rules. 

 

P.S. 

 

This is not balancing the charmer, but destroying it. Relics can't be removed from a skill, or it will result that old players will have a relic which new players can put any longer. 

 

I think we will see a nerf on Dogs, but in terms of their defense; I would just remove Resilience from them. This way dogs become more squishy (2-3 hits and they are dead) but they can still deal a lot of damage. 

At least someone that is not trying to kill charmer class!!

[Salazam 535]

6 hours ago, Higgings said:

I have merged your topic with this one, since this one is still active. Please, let's refrain from creating several topics with the same content in them, as it would result on flood, which goes against our rules

my topic didn't have much to do with the one you "merged", unfortunately I just lost time.

 

6 hours ago, Higgings said:

Relics can't be removed from a skill, or it will result that old players will have a relic which new players can put any longer

the interaction of these relays with some factors end up creating very bad situations, in addition to being a factor that can prevent the addition of critical damage to pets

 

6 hours ago, Higgings said:

I would just remove Resilience from them. This way dogs become more squishy (2-3 hits and they are dead) but they can still deal a lot of damage

pets are already weak enough having Resilience, 3k HP against damage classes in area is already low enough. the problem is a single pet hitting 2k! in a pvp set player. this is the biggest problem of all.

[Higgings 1830]

18 hours ago, Rhaast said:

my topic didn't have much to do with the one you "merged", unfortunately I just lost time.

 

 

Your topic gave particular suggestions about Charmer's skill "call" . Such skill is described to be particularly strong by the majority of players and most of them suggested, in a way or another, how to "nerf" this skill; no different have you done in your topic, thus there is no reason not to merge your topic and this post. I remind you that flood goes against our community rules.

 

18 hours ago, Rhaast said:

the interaction of these relays with some factors end up creating very bad situations, in addition to being a factor that can prevent the addition of critical damage to pets

 

You would sort the problem for new players and not for old ones, who have already got this relic inserted. 

 

18 hours ago, Rhaast said:

pets are already weak enough having Resilience, 3k HP against damage classes in area is already low enough. the problem is a single pet hitting 2k! in a pvp set player. this is the biggest problem of all.

 

No, they aren't, or people would not mind them at all. Actually, some of them would use dogs to earn hps from via Life Steal. 

[Salazam 535]

15 hours ago, Higgings said:

No, they aren't

yes they are, and you probably don't play with the class.
try to go in an arena against 2 mages and you won't have any dogs to help you.

 

 

[Higgings 1830]

13 hours ago, Rhaast said:

yes they are, and you probably don't play with the class.
try to go in an arena against 2 mages and you won't have any dogs to help you.

 

 

 

The fact that you play the class makes you more experienced, but that doesn't mean my knowledge about charmer is certainly low.

 

If your Pets are squishy you might either be running with 30% resilience or with the skill not maxed. 2 charmers vs 2 mages would be a such interesting fight, not gonna lie. But I would definitely bet on Charmers. If you focus dogs instead of the owner at the current state of things, you would die in no time.

[Salazam 535]

28 minutes ago, Higgings said:

If you focus dogs instead of the owner at the current state of things, you would die in no time.

we get into the question, the dog's problem is damage, not defense.

and a part of that is related to a bug, which has already been mentioned by the devs.

[Antifa 1321]

4 минуты назад, Rhaast сказал:

we get into the question, the dog's problem is damage, not defense.

and a part of that is related to a bug, which has already been mentioned by the devs.

the number of dogs will remain, so players will still die quickly

[Salazam 535]

1 hour ago, Топхил said:

the number of dogs will remain, so players will still die quickly

4 dogs hitting 400-500 is different from 4 dogs hitting 1k.

a charming +10 full Ferocity focused on DD, is a damage dealer, it still needs damage.