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Charmer unbalanced


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11 hours ago, lallouss said:

charmer dog filling up mc town making elf unable to enter it

Hi there, I'd like to weigh in here.

 

In US-Sapphire, results of Map 2 War, year to date: 56 Sentinel : 3 Legions; (approximately) with Sentinel winning at a near 95% rate yet such complains come up that Legions' classes are "imbalanced and too strong" any time Legions win Map 2 war once. 
If Legions' skills are "imbalanced and too strong", the Map 2 war results may perhaps differ. There are Sentinel skills that we feel are overpowered as well.

 

I would also like to say that you have a sort of personal bias in making this post. Your paladin was used to coming in by monster mode with 100% resist while 60 to 100 legion members could not thwart a life scroll spammer slowly shaving away at the flag. To put it plain and simple, ever since the discovery of the physical cool-down based charmers, you have not been able to carry this technique to win the war and rightfully so. I recommend you to look at it from other perspectives also.

Legion won the last territory war in sapphire because we used a new strategy; not cause of charmers.
Does it have its shortcomings? Definitely.
Are we going to tell you what they are? Nope.

 

Cause it's enemy's job to find counters for it as well as new game-play scenarios for it. What I'm saying is, this post is unjustified because you lost one war. Try new things. I'm sure there's more than enough skill synergies among sentinels to counter. Hell, even we already know how to counter our own strategy.
:snack-crazy-rabbit-emoticon:

Edited by TheCaster
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3 hours ago, TheCaster said:

In US-Sapphire, results of Map 2 War, year to date: 56 Sentinel : 3 Legions; (approximately) with Sentinel winning at a near 95% rate yet such complains come up that Legions' classes are "imbalanced and too strong" any time Legions win Map 2 war once. 
If Legions' skills are "imbalanced and too strong", the Map 2 war results may perhaps differ. There are Sentinel skills that we feel are overpowered as well.

 

This is because MCs have overall gained an incredible strenght many vs many wise (hence pvp scenario). As a result, MCs have got now several classes who can be competitive even without PvP set, and that's wrong. Definitely not an excuse to let MCs win this way.

 

However... this doesn't mean that elves should remain untouched. If MCs have got a noticeable strenght in many vs many, a battle with Elves in arena remains a troll (like seriously... 3 templars in seals or even 2x2. Or 3 druids on Crucible; classes you can't litterally kill due to a ridiculous surviving mechanism a simple skill provides). In this sense, charmer is exactly what they need in order to face these problems, as sending a pet to its fate is definitely more safe than sending the creator of such pet to his fate, don't you think? 

 

3 hours ago, TheCaster said:

Cause it's enemy's job to find counters for it as well as new game-play scenarios for it.

 

This is also very true and I agree fully with this statement. 

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10 hours ago, Fabr said:

Well, I did a test, and I realized that ferocity has no effect on these charmer's pets.

But even so, his resilience still has an effect on me and reduces my damage, and the pact's effect reduces the damage even more, which makes it very difficult to try to kill these pets.

A no, there's nothing wrong, forget what I said.:tired2:

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23 minutes ago, GalaxyRekt said:

Just remove resilience from charmer's pets and everything will be fine again. It makes no f sense for a +10 mage to hit less than 400 on a pet

Nice idea

And its dmg is so hight too cant be ignored and they so many 

Thank you for your reply 

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6 hours ago, TheCaster said:

Hi there, I'd like to weigh in here.

 

In US-Sapphire, results of Map 2 War, year to date: 56 Sentinel : 3 Legions; (approximately) with Sentinel winning at a near 95% rate yet such complains come up that Legions' classes are "imbalanced and too strong" any time Legions win Map 2 war once. 
If Legions' skills are "imbalanced and too strong", the Map 2 war results may perhaps differ. There are Sentinel skills that we feel are overpowered as well.

 

I would also like to say that you have a sort of personal bias in making this post. Your paladin was used to coming in by monster mode with 100% resist while 60 to 100 legion members could not thwart a life scroll spammer slowly shaving away at the flag. To put it plain and simple, ever since the discovery of the physical cool-down based charmers, you have not been able to carry this technique to win the war and rightfully so. I recommend you to look at it from other perspectives also.

Legion won the last territory war in sapphire because we used a new strategy; not cause of charmers.
Does it have its shortcomings? Definitely.
Are we going to tell you what they are? Nope.

 

Cause it's enemy's job to find counters for it as well as new game-play scenarios for it. What I'm saying is, this post is unjustified because you lost one war. Try new things. I'm sure there's more than enough skill synergies among sentinels to counter. Hell, even we already know how to counter our own strategy.
:snack-crazy-rabbit-emoticon:

 

2 hours ago, Higgings said:

 

This is because MCs have overall gained an incredible strenght many vs many wise (hence pvp scenario). As a result, MCs have got now several classes who can be competitive even without PvP set, and that's wrong. Definitely not an excuse to let MCs win this way.

 

However... this doesn't mean that elves should remain untouched. If MCs have got a noticeable strenght in many vs many, a battle with Elves in arena remains a troll (like seriously... 3 templars in seals or even 2x2. Or 3 druids on Crucible; classes you can't litterally kill due to a ridiculous surviving mechanism a simple skill provides). In this sense, charmer is exactly what they need in order to face these problems, as sending a pet to its fate is definitely more safe than sending the creator of such pet to his fate, don't you think? 

 

 

This is also very true and I agree fully with this statement. 

The reason we won that war was because of the new facing the old. And what Higgins said is very much true about Druids and Templars. 

 

1 hour ago, GalaxyRekt said:

Just remove resilience from charmer's pets and everything will be fine again. It makes no f sense for a +10 mage to hit less than 400 on a pet

I do agree. But what about Druids water elemental or Templars summon? 

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1 hour ago, Drakoknight said:

 

The reason we won that war was because of the new facing the old. And what Higgins said is very much true about Druids and Templars. 

 

I do agree. But what about Druids water elemental or Templars summon? 

I think they are fine though.

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2 hours ago, Drakoknight said:

 

I do agree. But what about Druids water elemental or Templars summon? 

templar summon can only be casted if there is an enemie and doesnt last more than 1

druid can be casted but also cant have more than 1 mostly they both disappear fast

 

8 hours ago, TheCaster said:

Hi there, I'd like to weigh in here.

 

In US-Sapphire, results of Map 2 War, year to date: 56 Sentinel : 3 Legions; (approximately) with Sentinel winning at a near 95% rate yet such complains come up that Legions' classes are "imbalanced and too strong" any time Legions win Map 2 war once. 
If Legions' skills are "imbalanced and too strong", the Map 2 war results may perhaps differ. There are Sentinel skills that we feel are overpowered as well.

 

won by multiple unity and bless skills and waves after waves

legion stays in base spamming defensively

 

8 hours ago, TheCaster said:

 

 

I would also like to say that you have a sort of personal bias in making this post. Your paladin was used to coming in by monster mode with 100% resist while 60 to 100 legion members could not thwart a life scroll spammer slowly shaving away at the flag. To put it plain and simple, ever since the discovery of the physical cool-down based charmers, you have not been able to carry this technique to win the war and rightfully so. I recommend you to look at it from other perspectives also.

 

bro barbarian has same skill 100% resist + he can use skills on flag same concept, any barbarian can do this and even survive longer due to his passive ability at low hp if he puts skills 4/4 on both of them he wont die easily on flag + 32 heavy gear exists on both sides how u say thats personal bias? both factions has same gears same skill gear

 

8 hours ago, TheCaster said:



Legion won the last territory war in sapphire because we used a new strategy; not cause of charmers.

yea i know u won cause of the 15 lvl6-10 warlocks spamming flag with stuns im not complaining about that

 

im complaining about charmer dog in arena and war cant easily be killed due to its resilience acting like a pve mob with pvp stats

 

his resilience reduces dmg of players

his pve mode reduces fero dmg thats why low dmg on it + ability to have more than 6 of it each charmer im not being baised im being realistic

 

 

few pics to proove my points

63AA5DE0-05FA-4ECB-B876-75C58688CDE3.thumb.jpeg.9c41fcad68fce5e0fcd8d362892fabe3.jpeg754BE025-E358-4CBC-B604-A710752E0035.thumb.jpeg.51aac8272da9c22f97f5010b1449015f.jpeg

Edited by lallouss
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2 hours ago, Drakoknight said:

The reason we won that war was because of the new facing the old.

that's true. But in another sense.

In recent updates, mcs gained some useful in these scenarios with many players, they started to fight and win battles, and now they can compete. Now there are more mcs going into battles and they've already shown what they can do, and they have their own strategies.

They have aoe healing, aoe damage, aoe control, aoe damage reduction, aoe debuffs, lots of pets.

Now the elves are with the same abilities, same mechanics as always. Nothing has changed, no new strategy that has been used in years past. They have not gained any new skills that are good for these battles. The same.

Bd can use rush to stun aoe, ranger can use vengeful shoot to bleed or traps, druid can use root punitives to trap them or tornado. Priest can use redemption for ao healing and punishment for silencing. And mage and paladin are Aoe damage and stuns.

 Got it?  Elves are just damage, stuns and shields. The only "strategy" I've seen elves use are kamikaze mages and paladins jumping in the crowd to use their stun and damage skills, protected with sacred shield, the mcs already know how to fight that.

The only thing new from the elves now is the templar, and only him, to have some strategy to counter , and yet he still has his problems and few people play with him.

Edited by Fabr
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4 hours ago, Jaidin said:

Nice idea

And its dmg is so hight too cant be ignored and they so many 

Thank you for your reply 

 

Agree for the resilience part but disagree on the damage part. 

1 hour ago, GalaxyRekt said:

I think they are fine though.

 

They are stronger than doggos in terms of usefulness ( ranged attack, possibility to use with a single build...) just a higher CD. 

 

1 hour ago, lallouss said:

his resilience reduces dmg of players

his pve mode reduces fero

 

Fero is calculated when dealing dmg to a dog. 

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1 hour ago, Higgings said:

 

Agree for the resilience part but disagree on the damage part. 

 

When we start the game and comes to the part where we select class

It shows that charmer have 3 bars on dmg 

while rouge have 4.5 bars on dmg so that mean rogue must be do higher dmg than charmer. 

But what happen now in warspear charmer do more dmg than rogues in arena and in dgs 

So there is somthing wrong 

Screenshot_20210725_214957_com.aigrind.warspear.jpg

Screenshot_20210725_214940_com.aigrind.warspear.jpg

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3 hours ago, Higgings said:

They are stronger than doggos in terms of usefulness ( ranged attack, possibility to use with a single build...) just a higher CD. 

 

Yes but you don't see many people complain about them. I guess most druids/templars have their summons 1/4.

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1 hour ago, GalaxyRekt said:

Yes but you don't see many people complain about them. I guess most druids/templars have their summons 1/4.

True

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1 hour ago, GalaxyRekt said:

Yes but you don't see many people complain about them. I guess most druids/templars have their summons 1/4.

The templar's pet is ignored by almost everyone, because they prefer (or need) to study another skill better for their build, and besides, the pet deals magic damage, and magic templars are almost non-existent.

The druid's pet is mostly used, but it's the player's personal choice, some don't even use it. It's just to do more damage anyway.

Edited by Fabr
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2 hours ago, Fabr said:

The templar's pet is ignored by almost everyone, because they prefer (or need) to study another skill better for their build, and besides, the pet deals magic damage, and magic templars are almost non-existent.

The druid's pet is mostly used, but it's the player's personal choice, some don't even use it. It's just to do more damage anyway.

I have seen quite a few Templars using their summons. It does hit pretty hard 

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1 hour ago, Drakoknight said:

I have seen quite a few Templars using their summons. It does hit pretty hard 

Yes he can hit hard when you have high magic damage

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On 7/25/2021 at 10:35 AM, Fabr said:

Well, I did a test, and I realized that ferocity has no effect on these charmer's pets.

But even so, his resilience still has an effect on me and reduces my damage, and the pact's effect reduces the damage even more, which makes it very difficult to try to kill these pets.

Yea that'll be op with fero. I understand the pact skill due to the dog and bird dying to fast in both pvp and pve. Like what's the point of being a summoner class with your summons can't last in the battle field. If they take resil way, even though they just added it, that means all summoner skill will be useless in battle. That's including Druid, Necro, and Templar.

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14 hours ago, Jaidin said:

When we start the game and comes to the part where we select class

It shows that charmer have 3 bars on dmg 

while rouge have 4.5 bars on dmg so that mean rogue must be do higher dmg than charmer. 

But what happen now in warspear charmer do more dmg than rogues in arena and in dgs 

So there is somthing wrong 

Screenshot_20210725_214957_com.aigrind.warspear.jpg

Screenshot_20210725_214940_com.aigrind.warspear.jpg

 

Don't take that bar too seriously. There are too many variabilities which can influence the meaning of that bar, starting from the type of class, ending to the wealth of the user. Charmer's damage construction requires time (dogs still have to be casted and must survive) whereas rogue's is instant. In this sense, in an ammount of time equals to (example) 10 seconds, a rogue will definitely do more damage than a chamer. 

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13 hours ago, Fabr said:

The templar's pet is ignored by almost everyone, because they prefer (or need) to study another skill better for their build, and besides, the pet deals magic damage, and magic templars are almost non-existent.

The druid's pet is mostly used, but it's the player's personal choice, some don't even use it. It's just to do more damage anyway

Charmer dog build = need physical for gud damage . Make physical = bird heal low n base heal low . Evry class has to sacrifice something not only just templer or druids. No class in game heals like a druid . All charmer have to make pact skill 4/4 for make dogs last longer . Play a charmer and see not just state facts by seeing people or watching videos from youtube about why many dogs n vice versa

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20 hours ago, Jaidin said:

When we start the game and comes to the part where we select class

It shows that charmer have 3 bars on dmg 

while rouge have 4.5 bars on dmg so that mean rogue must be do higher dmg than charmer. 

But what happen now in warspear charmer do more dmg than rogues in arena and in dgs 

So there is somthing wrong 

Screenshot_20210725_214957_com.aigrind.warspear.jpg

Screenshot_20210725_214940_com.aigrind.warspear.jpg

IMG_20210726_171511.thumb.jpg.e4404f626f06bdeeebb56c1f8e3c4eae.jpg

Who hits more harder in arena u know it better. 

While who shud if we follow the bars according to u. 

IMG_20210726_171424.jpg

IMG_20210726_171414.jpg

Edited by Buuuu
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8 hours ago, Speedom said:

Yea that'll be op with fero. I understand the pact skill due to the dog and bird dying to fast in both pvp and pve. Like what's the point of being a summoner class with your summons can't last in the battle field. If they take resil way, even though they just added it, that means all summoner skill will be useless in battle. That's including Druid, Necro, and Templar.

Yes without the resilience they would die very quickly. But I also don't see a solution for a dog that hits you 1k+ easily and is very resistant.

3 hours ago, Buuuu said:

Charmer dog build = need physical for gud damage . Make physical = bird heal low n base heal low . Evry class has to sacrifice something not only just templer or druids. No class in game heals like a druid . All charmer have to make pact skill 4/4 for make dogs last longer . Play a charmer and see not just state facts by seeing people or watching videos from youtube about why many dogs n vice versa

Charmers can make a build entirely focused on your pet, they sacrifice more stuff, but they also gain more stuff, like letting your pets live longer, more resistant and much stronger.

3 hours ago, Buuuu said:

IMG_20210726_171511.thumb.jpg.e4404f626f06bdeeebb56c1f8e3c4eae.jpg

Who hits more harder in arena u know it better. 

While who shud if we follow the bars according to u. 

IMG_20210726_171424.jpg

IMG_20210726_171414.jpg

In the arena? Rogue. Why? His damage abilities are strong, he has stealth, and his stun abilities are damage abilities. Rogue can attack and stun at the same time, he does more damage in a short time than bd, with his super slow axes. But if you ask who does more damage in pve, it's definitely bd, because he'll have speed. And those bars mean nothing, they've been years out of date.

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56 minutes ago, Fabr said:

In the arena? Rogue. Why? His damage abilities are strong, he has stealth, and his stun abilities are damage abilities. Rogue can attack and stun at the same time, he does more damage in a short time than bd, with his super slow axes. But if you ask who does more damage in pve, it's definitely bd, because he'll have speed. And those bars mean nothing, they've been years out of date.

Rogue dnt have 40% auto attack bd hits 60% resi players for 1.4k 1.5k . No rogue auto hits players for that damage. Check bar who shud have more damage

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16 hours ago, Drakoknight said:

I have seen quite a few Templars using their summons. It does hit pretty hard 

templar pet at lvl1 it lasts 10sec with 24sec cooldown at lvl4 im not sure but it cant be cycled to have more than 2 or so, unlike charmer who can cycle 6 dogs without the need of a target to hit making an auto click charmer not hard these days

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On 7/25/2021 at 12:55 AM, Fabr said:

1 - Dude, we're in 2021, 40% attack strength isn't a big deal anymore. dmg classes do more damage than 40% auto attack with skills alone, check out the elusive jump. It does more damage than an auto attack. And then there's the templar with an ability that does 250% physical damage, and chieftain also has one that does 250% physical damage and one that does 275% magic damage in aoe.

2 - Wow, ranger is the new warlock of the elves and I didn't even realize, I must be going crazy... I don't think you should be.

3 - The druid's cure is no longer "massive", it's all right. he only has a lot of healing skills.

4 - How can it be cycled with 45 sec recharge?

5 - No, flow is maximum 9 players if you have the relic, and warlock can also stun 9 players with dark circle with the same relic. Stop crying.

And legion has more area damage reduction than elves, like the barbarian's 2 roars, the shaman's weakness totem which reduces penetration by 25%, the chieftain's trashing which reduces damage by 50%, legion has more debuffs than elves also, warlock weakness zone that reduces magic defense by 80%, and charmer weakness that reduces physical and magic defense by 50%, and legion has more pets than elves.

Rogues elusive jump skill have 14seconds cd and idk how dumb u compare it with bd auto damage skill which is endless. Bds do more damage with alot of control skills. Rogues doesnt do an impact on bds with that skill.

 

Charmer is a betrayed class in every category even in arena after stun skill nerf. Now people feel happy to lvl up and play charmers for pve purpose

 

Charmers sacrifice every skill points , relics with cd build to create more minions and a PvP charmer cant spam more than 2 dogs

 

If there will be nerf still for charmers then give them paladins sacred shield , which should support the players and must absorb same amount of damage like paladins shield skill.

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Honestly many sentinel shield skills should be nerfed. Especially Seekers and Paladins. The BD auto attack dmg skill should be nerfed, from say 40% to 20% 

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2 hours ago, Buuuu said:

Rogue dnt have 40% auto attack bd hits 60% resi players for 1.4k 1.5k . No rogue auto hits players for that damage. Check bar who shud have more damage

But rogue has stealth that increases damage by 50%, and flurry of steel does 145% physical damage, which would hit 1k400, or more if stealthy. The bd's auto attack is also strong, but axes are slow and he needs to keep using stun skills, it's not like the rogue that has been pressing various damage skills and stunning you, so rogue does more damage.

 

1 hour ago, Lwn said:

Rogues elusive jump skill have 14seconds cd and idk how dumb u compare it with bd auto damage skill which is endless. Bds do more damage with alot of control skills. Rogues doesnt do an impact on bds with that skill.

Bd only has 2 control skills and they don't make him invincible, on the contrary. Hamstring only prevents you from walking and using skills, this can be horrible if you're fighting someone who has a lot of speed. Rush also doesn't prevent him from taking damage, only negative effects.

1 hour ago, Lwn said:

Charmer is a betrayed class in every category even in arena after stun skill nerf. Now people feel happy to lvl up and play charmers for pve purpose

No, it's not. Charmer is good in both pve and pvp and arena, they can be called farm as heal and even as dmg, pvp charmers are everywhere, just look around.

1 hour ago, Lwn said:

Charmers sacrifice every skill points , relics with cd build to create more minions

Neither. Physical charmers only need to spend the points on the dog, the pact, and the summoner's ability. The other points they can spend on some stun or on the basic skill weakness, or even on the blessing. The relics I think so.

1 hour ago, Lwn said:

PvP charmer cant spam more than 2 dogs

This is even true if he has 0% of the cd. But with 25% you can already leave 3 dogs.

1 hour ago, Lwn said:

If there will be nerf still for charmers then give them paladins sacred shield , which should support the players and must absorb same amount of damage like paladins shield skill.

:pokerface_2:same amount of damage?

Edited by Fabr
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59 minutes ago, Drakoknight said:

Honestly many sentinel shield skills should be nerfed. Especially Seekers and Paladins. The BD auto attack dmg skill should be nerfed, from say 40% to 20% 

agreed for sure but this topic about charmers, another topic would be needed explaining why some sentinel skills need to be nerfed here we talking about how 1 charmer can summon multiple dogs stacking and unable to die easily and hits harder than a player does

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7 hours ago, Buuuu said:

IMG_20210726_171511.thumb.jpg.e4404f626f06bdeeebb56c1f8e3c4eae.jpg

Who hits more harder in arena u know it better. 

While who shud if we follow the bars according to u. 

IMG_20210726_171424.jpg

IMG_20210726_171414.jpg

I will never say bd do more dmg than rogue or ranger  ( you can say it if you want) 

About the hit yes bd normal attack make highest score 

About charmer i will say he do more dmg than bd and more dmg than ranger and more dmg than rogue in dg and arena 

Thank you for your reply 

Edited by Jaidin
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23 hours ago, GalaxyRekt said:

They are stronger than doggos in terms of usefulness ( ranged attack, possibility to use with a single build...) just a higher CD. 

I know that charmer dogs can do area dmg

+ they can apply the effect of ( terrible relic of life weakness) if used on the skill call (i dont know if the dog have 20 % chance to apply the relic effect with each attack. or each dog have 1 chance to apply the effect. or the worst part if the dogs have 20% chance to apply the relic effect even when they doing area dmg)

+ some times they can crit on full resil players and them crit not reduced by resil if charmer dog hit 1k his crit will be 2.2k on 44.9% resil player but if player that hit 1k dose a crit on 44.9% resil player the dmg will be close to 1.1k_1.2k( i dont know how that happen)

+ charmer can summon more dogs way more 

+ dogs do higher score of dmg and they hit faster 

Please if anyone can explain to us

Thank you for your reply

Edited by Jaidin
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On 7/25/2021 at 8:20 PM, lallouss said:

im complaining about charmer dog in arena and war cant easily be killed due to its resilience acting like a pve mob with pvp stats

 

But I don't see the reason how charmer played a role in losing the last war. 
So let's break this down. According to you, charmer summons are the issue in 2 scenarios: 

 

1. War.

1. As far as war is concerned, other than thwarting ls spammers and classes who try to attack the flag solo, I don't see the issue. Every attack you guys have done in the past have been accompanied by a globe, bless or guild unity. Charmers can't stop a bless wave neither can they stop 60 members from guild unity. Since globe is on, the physical damage of charmers are reversed to magical damage to my knowledge. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Now if you plan to charge into a heavily defended legion town head on, with or without the charmers; unless there's an overwhelming number difference the attack wave would get wiped unless some other factors come into play. You can't say " We charged into 100 legions and were not able to win because of charmer summons." If I remember correctly, the sentinel guild members in sapphire got exactly in position to use guild unity on flag despite the many charmers supposedly blocking the way. So logically, I'm trying to understand where charmers made such a difference that cause a loss in war?
 

On 7/25/2021 at 8:20 PM, lallouss said:

yea i know u won cause of the 15 lvl6-10 warlocks spamming flag with stuns im not complaining about that

and as you've already pointed out, the win was due to a simple increase in the number of warlocks. Nothing else.

and why do you need to attack charmer summons when you're attacking a town, the focus should be on the flag. So whether mages deal low damage on charmers or not, is not a concern as far as this scenario is concerned. A suggested counter to this is to use templar orb to push, pala fetters, BD with max rush to stun all the dogs and just focus on the flag.


2. Arena
The charmer summons are strong to an extent in arena, definitely. At the risk of going off topic, to consider this scenario we have to look at who is on the opposite side as Higgings have pointed out.
 

On 7/25/2021 at 3:30 PM, Higgings said:

a battle with Elves in arena remains a troll (like seriously... 3 templars in seals or even 2x2. Or 3 druids on Crucible; classes you can't litterally kill due to a ridiculous surviving mechanism a simple skill provides). In this sense, charmer is exactly what they need in order to face these problems

 

I myself play a caster and I have twist and turn at every second to avoid getting caught by a BD in arena, cause I know once I'm hamstringed or just a single resist, I'm as good as dead. A class with such defensive abilities, resist options, extremely high attack and strong control skills including AOE stun. A druid who heals massive amount, has next to infinite stun cycles and superb survivability. Templars who have a built in advantage in any seals or 2s arena mode.
How do you fight against these classes?

Let me just show an example:

 

For context, the shaman and the hunter are one of the best in the server with extremely high damage and +10 arena weapons

and the druid has orkinus based buffs. 
Now tell me, how are legion supposed to cope up with stuff like this if not for having advantages like charmer summons? Especially in modes where surviving determines the winners like crucibles? I don't want to divert off topic here, so I'll stop at just this one example.

@Speedom has already pointed out several ways in which charmer can be dealt with in arena in the comments above. A pvp charmer can summon 2 summons, 3 tops if cd accessories are used which would just be asking for trouble cause of low resilience. I've seen well placed BD rush stun the whole lot of them including the summoner. If you're a charmer that's put his or her points into extending summons, then you sacrifice your mdmg, heals and survivability. 

In summary, Charmer are strong, yes; but the counterpart classes such as templar, druid, BD, are equally strong if not more. So if you're going to take something from their kit for arena, then you have to look into what you'll also be taking away from the sentinel counterparts.

Good day.

Edited by TheCaster
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4 hours ago, lallouss said:

templar pet at lvl1 it lasts 10sec with 24sec cooldown at lvl4 im not sure but it cant be cycled to have more than 2 or so, unlike charmer who can cycle 6 dogs without the need of a target to hit making an auto click charmer not hard these days

Cycling 6 requires massive amount of cooldowns. You need 70% just to keep 4. Also, that's sacrificing mana regeneration. The gear requires full cd set.

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42 minutes ago, Speedom said:

Cycling 6 requires massive amount of cooldowns. You need 70% just to keep 4. Also, that's sacrificing mana regeneration. The gear requires full cd set.

duly noted

 

43 minutes ago, TheCaster said:

 

But I don't see the reason how charmer played a role in losing the last war. 

 who talking about last war? i never said charmer are in any reason elfs losing war, i said its hard to enter mc town when u have a massive pack of zoo animals inside of it that cannot be killed easily, i know you guys hate me in game and spam wchat saying i cry on forum each time i lose but thats not the case here, i just saw a topic about charmer dogs and im commenting my opinion unrelated to what happen in sapphire server

 

47 minutes ago, TheCaster said:

and as you've already pointed out, the win was due to a simple increase in the number of warlocks. Nothing else.

exactly, this topic about charmers summons im not complaining about anything else

 

other things u said about druid bd and templar i respectively read all of it but i want keep discussion about charmers here need remove resilience of all pets of all classes maybe its ridiculous cant kill these summons easily in war or gvg or arena 

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On 7/20/2021 at 7:42 AM, Higgings said:

 

Have you tried bringing players with you or your attempt is killing a charmer alone?

 

Anyway, I would agree with you in terms of big scenarios such as GvG and War of Territories, where dogs represent a big problem for sentinels to come across. 

 

I mean , i really consider Charmers OP for arena , considering DOGS not only are amazing at killing , but they can work like a wall that protect Charmer's teammates.

 

But on GvG scenarios they aren't really good , atleast not on my server's comps. Because on 100x100 dogs will do nothing but serve as healing bots to enemies with vampirism. Most guilds don't even accept charmers anymore.

 

 

 

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18 hours ago, Fabr said:

But rogue has stealth that increases damage by 50%, and flurry of steel does 145% physical damage, which would hit 1k400, or more if stealthy. The bd's auto attack is also strong, but axes are slow and he needs to keep using stun skills, it's not like the rogue that has been pressing various damage skills and stunning you, so rogue does more damage.

 

Bd only has 2 control skills and they don't make him invincible

Stealth skill is an one time use and in PvP can't use even 1 time vs bd unless bd gouged. But it's impossible to do.

 

All bds maxed resist and Rogues stun skill became useless or they use just to remove bds Resist buff. Even after resist buff over , they have another resist by "Rush" skill then they can cycle the resist buff skill again

 

Also +10 bds hit 60% resil rogues 1.2k-1.3k and rogues just die by 4x auto hits.

 

18 hours ago, Fabr said:

Physical charmers only need to spend the points on the dog, the pact, and the summoner's ability. The other points they can spend on some stun or on the basic skill weakness, or even on the blessing. The relics I think so.

This is even true if he has 0% of the cd. But with 25% you can already leave 3 dogs.

 

Charmers can't save anyone instantly and heal skills are useless 

 

Shamans "Ancestors hand" still a trash skill which absorb 1k dmg when u lvl up 4/4

 

Templars , paladins and druids have better skill to save people than charmers and I wish charmers get something related to those skills.

18 hours ago, Fabr said:

 

:pokerface_2:same amount of damage?

I mean they should get same shield skill like paladins , read clearly 

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12 minutes ago, Lwn said:

Templars , paladins and druids have better skill to save people than charmers and I wish charmers get something related to those skills.

I mean they should get same shield skill like paladins , read clearly 

paladin or templar shield (in arena) can be removed by new chieftain skill at lvl1, mc has counter skills for sentinel shields but yet again we talking about charmer dog summons and not other classes there is no counter much to them if sentinel has same summon capabilities with such powerful stats, forsaken cant enter town also

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14 hours ago, lallouss said:

i said its hard to enter mc town when u have a massive pack of zoo animals inside of it that cannot be killed easily,

Thats true 

And not only it hard to kill them they do a massive dmg and massive area dmg

 

Not only in town in gvg too they block the camps after few charmers start spaming dogs it become imposible to leave the camps  becose insta die + other class skills that give dogs huge support like warlock who cc the players and let the dogs kill them  and shamans who heal them with them totems

Thank you for your reply

 

On 7/26/2021 at 11:16 AM, Higgings said:

in an ammount of time equals to (example) 10 seconds, a rogue will definitely do more damage than a chamer. 

I agree with you if the charmer dont have dogs in the field before the start of the 10 sec count

But if the dogs were summoned and reached MAX number before the count start i would say the charmer + the 5 or 7 dogs will make more dmg than a rogue. 

and thats what happen in arena and gvg and wars 

Thank you for the reply

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7 hours ago, lallouss said:

i said its hard to enter mc town when u have a massive pack of zoo animals inside of it that cannot be killed easily

Ah alright. I was just pointing out above that despite the charmer summons, sentinels were able to get into legion town to attack the flag. 

 

7 hours ago, lallouss said:

i know you guys hate me in game and spam wchat saying i cry on forum each time i lose but thats not the case

I have nothing personal against you lol. I don't know about others, but just because we're on opposite sides in game doesn't mean we have to carry that over anywhere else. 

 

Tbh if we didn't have all these competitive wars, GvGs and arena fights, it would be hella boring. I'd have quit by now if there wasn't some interesting arena fights and GvGs to look forward to.  :concentration:

 

So if anything, I'm thankful for the competition. Keeps things interesting. 

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40 minutes ago, Jaidin said:

I agree with you if the charmer dont have dogs in the field before the start of the 10 sec count

But if the dogs were summoned and reached MAX number before the count start i would say the charmer + the 5 or 7 dogs will make more dmg than a rogue. 

and thats what happen in arena and gvg and wars 

Thank you for the reply

Good thing that's not possible. They can only summon 1 before it start. Then the 2nd one before the battle. Keep in mind that 1st one with be still at the start. Their dmg output is mostly from there dogs (physical build). Hybrid build is so underrated with charmers. The Raven does more dmg with auto attack vs dogs physical. Plus, the bird keep the charmer alive. The downside is that the bird is squishy even with Pact skill.

On 7/25/2021 at 9:26 PM, GalaxyRekt said:

Just remove resilience from charmer's pets and everything will be fine again. It makes no f sense for a +10 mage to hit less than 400 on a pet

Removing that will make charmer useless in arena. That's why the latest rework added that for all summoner skills. Like I said before…

Gotta look at the big picture.

Edited by Speedom
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2 hours ago, lallouss said:

paladin or templar shield (in arena) can be removed by new chieftain skill at lvl1, mc has counter skills for sentinel shields but yet again we talking about charmer dog summons and not other classes there is no counter much to them if sentinel has same summon capabilities with such powerful stats, forsaken cant enter town also

If chieftain can remove pala shield and templer shield as u say then I wud say mages can remove the skill ( demonic pact )of charmer which makes dogs n birds last longer . I will show u a video below . Ask ur mages remove the pact skill from the charmer so dogs dnt last longer .there are counters but u just dnt want speak bout them coz u can't do damage on flag using monster mode . Evrytime u revive now dogs kill u ( i.e. the ls spamming for solo kill flag in monster mode not working ) only reason u speak about charmer  dogs is coz that . Also in arena u say 4 5 dogs tell me the name of 50% resi charmer who can summon 4 5 dogs . 

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41 minutes ago, Buuuu said:

If chieftain can remove pala shield and templer shield as u say then I wud say mages can remove the skill ( demonic pact )of charmer which makes dogs n birds last longer . I will show u a video below . Ask ur mages remove the pact skill from the charmer so dogs dnt last longer .there are counters but u just dnt want speak bout them coz u can't do damage on flag using monster mode . Evrytime u revive now dogs kill u ( i.e. the ls spamming for solo kill flag in monster mode not working ) only reason u speak about charmer  dogs is coz that . Also in arena u say 4 5 dogs tell me the name of 50% resi charmer who can summon 4 5 dogs . 

Mage skill (Magic Ban) is much more stronger. What it does is not only remove the buffs, but it also shortens the duration of any new buffs that are applied. (i.e. just like the world event boss)

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