Jump to content

Charmer unbalanced


Recommended Posts

1 minute ago, Speedom said:

Mage skill (Magic Ban) is much more stronger. What it does is not only remove the buffs, but it also shortens the duration of any new buffs that are applied. (i.e. just like the world event boss)

Basically better than chief buff removing skill

Link to comment
Share on other sites

49 minutes ago, Speedom said:

Good thing that's not possible

If you mean in arena 

Well its possible becose it take time before the start and the fight will not happen instant after it started  it will take enough time for charmer to have MAX dogs summoned

Same what rangers used to do before trap explosin skill nerf

they had enough time to put many traps in one spot before the fight begun

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Jaidin said:

If you mean in arena 

Well its possible becose it take time before the start and the fight will not happen instant after it started  it will take enough time for charmer to have MAX dogs summoned

Same what rangers used to do before trap explosin skill nerf

they had enough time to put many traps in one spot before the fight begun

I literally explain it how charmer call skill works according to the skill cooldown. You really think charmer can summon "5-7" dogs less than 30sec?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Speedom said:

I literally explain it how charmer call skill works according to the skill cooldown. You really think charmer can summon "5-7" dogs less than 30sec?

So u mean the fight in arena happen after 30 sec from the start? 

First thing you said rogue can out dmg charmer in a matter of 10 sec

I reply thats maybe true if there was no dogs in the field before we start the 10 sec test  

But if we start the 10 sec dmg test and there was MAX number of dogs summoned before the start of the dmg test i said charmer + the dogs will do more dmg than rogue

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Jaidin said:

So u mean the fight in arena happen after 30 sec from the start? 

First thing you said rogue can out dmg charmer in a matter of 10 sec

I reply thats maybe true if there was no dogs in the field before we start the 10 sec test  

But if we start the 10 sec dmg test and there was MAX number of dogs summoned before the start of the dmg test i said charmer + the dogs will do more dmg than rogue

 

Oh yea most definitely they will. Realistically, only in wars and maybe dgs. I've seen rogues out dmg charmers

Edited by Speedom
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Buuuu said:

I wud say mages can remove the skill ( demonic pact )of charmer which makes dogs n birds last longer

Sadly magic ban do remove a random buff 1stack of  buff at lvl 1 and 3 stack of buffs at lvl 4

Charmer have passive after each skill used he get 1 stack of buff when 4 or 5 stacks( im not sure how many) the next auto attack will do stun + increase dmg 

So the magic ban may remove that buff instead of the skill that buff dogs + there is many buffs charmer can optain like heal or if he use mermen gear ( as some charmers use in my server 2 pec of mm tank gear and the rest arena) he get 10 stack that each stack reduce some % of dmg 

 

Magic ban is so slow skill i would say it can be use in some 1v1 cases but for sure not vs charmer 

 

9 minutes ago, Speedom said:

Oh yea most definitely they will

No way 

Charmer will have MAX summoned dogs at arena 

Charmer always can make enough time to summon MAX dogs 

Becose of the stuns he has 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Jaidin said:

Sadly magic ban do remove a random buff 1stack of  buff at lvl 1 and 3 stack of buffs at lvl 4

Charmer have passive after each skill used he get 1 stack of buff when 4 or 5 stacks( im not sure how many) the next auto attack will do stun + increase dmg 

So the magic ban may remove that buff instead of the skill that buff dogs + there is many buffs charmer can optain like heal or if he use mermen gear ( as some charmers use in my server 2 pec of mm tank gear and the rest arena) he get 10 stack that each stack reduce some % of dmg 

Same problem with chief if pala using merman gear can't remove shield. U can test n see . Both sides have same issue in removing the buffs of enemy. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Buuuu said:

Same problem with chief if pala using merman gear can't remove shield. U can test n see . Both sides have same issue in removing the buffs of enemy. 

Yes i agree with you. 

Remove buff skills are useless realy

Becose they are so slow and may remove another buff not the buff you want to remove 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Speedom said:

Good thing that's not possible. They can only summon 1 before it start. Then the 2nd one before the battle. Keep in mind that 1st one with be still at the start. Their dmg output is mostly from there dogs (physical build). Hybrid build is so underrated with charmers. The Raven does more dmg with auto attack vs dogs physical. Plus, the bird keep the charmer alive. The downside is that the bird is squishy even with Pact skill.

Removing that will make charmer useless in arena. That's why the latest rework added that for all summoner skills. Like I said before…

Gotta look at the big picture.

Charmer was already fine without using them in arena. They could make so that the dog has 50% of resilience of the char though

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 minutes ago, Jaidin said:

Sadly magic ban do remove a random buff 1stack of  buff at lvl 1 and 3 stack of buffs at lvl 4

Charmer have passive after each skill used he get 1 stack of buff when 4 or 5 stacks( im not sure how many) the next auto attack will do stun + increase dmg 

So the magic ban may remove that buff instead of the skill that buff dogs + there is many buffs charmer can optain like heal or if he use mermen gear ( as some charmers use in my server 2 pec of mm tank gear and the rest arena) he get 10 stack that each stack reduce some % of dmg 

 

Magic ban is so slow skill i would say it can be use in some 1v1 cases but for sure not vs charmer 

 

No way 

Charmer will have MAX summoned dogs at arena 

Charmer always can make enough time to summon MAX dogs 

Becose of the stuns he has 

So for full stun charmer:

Basic skill they can max dogs and basic stun(3sec). Can be block, dodge and RESIST

 

Expert aoe stun at 1/4 45% chance to 4/4 65% chance(3sec at max). Can be block, dodge, and RESIST

 

Another expert is the passive that stacks up to 5 that is based on physical dmg. Then stacks takes awhile to reach. Can stun up to 5 sec. Can be block, dodge, and RESIST.

 

The other is not a stun, it's a petrified skill that puts in a state to unable to be attack and vice versa. Can be RESIST

 

Summary, if you let charmers stun you and you're using a mage, that is a problem for you not using your skill well or low in resist stats. Everyone in arena always go for the stuns to give them the hands with a finishing blow(pause). Due to the facts, charmers will use their basic stun first since it's guaranteed a success. If you avoid that, you can give him the good ole mage love taps. Besides, there's plenty of players that know their class ins and outs. Wouldn't hurt you to ask them how to pvp against a charmer.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, GalaxyRekt said:

Charmer was already fine without using them in arena. They could make so that the dog has 50% of resilience of the char though

And I don't blame them either. They'll eventually get tired of losing and make some changes to compete. It's all about the battle of skills and stats. This ain't the old Warspear when it's all about about defense, stuns and high power. 

Edited by Speedom
Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, Speedom said:

Summary, if you let charmers stun you and you're using a mage, that is a problem for you not using your skill well or low in resist stats

Is charmer dogs (5 dogs) hit 1k each on my mage 

Is my problem too becose i dont use my skill well? 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, Jaidin said:

Is charmer dogs (5 dogs) hit 1k each on my mage 

Is my problem too becose i dont use my skill well? 

 

With low defense you have, yes it is. Resilience is a stat booster for pvp survivability. However, defense still factor in your role. That's why mage max Armor and Barrier.

Btw charmer summoning 5 dogs is not normal. It requires a sacrificial build

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, Speedom said:

With low defense you have, yes it is. Resilience is a stat booster for pvp survivability. However, defense still factor in your role. That's why mage max Armor and Barrier.

Btw charmer summoning 5 dogs is not normal. It requires a sacrificial build

Well thats the end of discusstion.

its seems the problem is my low def

well yea my gear +8 and if amped them to +10 it  will give me like 600 more def

And that 600 more def will give me like 3.4_4% dmg reduction so instead of charmer dog hit me 1k when skill active it will start hit me 900+

And that 100 dmg different is what making the misslead to me of charmer being overpowerd

 And about the mage who have +10 staff that hit charmer dog less than 400 dmg who posted in this topic it maybe his problem too

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Jaidin said:

Well thats the end of discusstion.

its seems the problem is my low def

well yea my gear +8 and if amped them to +10 it  will give me like 600 more def

And that 600 more def will give me like 3.4_4% dmg reduction so instead of charmer dog hit me 1k when skill active it will start hit me 900+

And that 100 dmg different is what making the misslead to me of charmer being overpowerd

 And about the mage who have +10 staff that hit charmer dog less than 400 dmg who posted in this topic it maybe his problem too

Yea honestly idk how you hit it so low. Makes me wonder if the dog with 50% resilience + 28% dmg reduction from Demonic Pact is tankier tha the charmer. How much dmg you deal to the charmer?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The only thing they can do is ban minions and summons to make everyone shut up about "charmer op" when in reality summoner charmer build is squishy

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wanna nerf charmer when they just fix their skill to make them playeable?

Why dont we see a post of u guys asking for bd getting nerf,we have been asking that since 3 years agl yet is no happening

Same case with pala shield wich absorbs a ridiculous amount of dmg and also druid heals wich can syay on 24/7 makeing them very hard to kill

So yes,if we u asking a nerf make it fair for both sides and not just ask what u need to have de advantage

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, Jaidin said:

I agree with you if the charmer dont have dogs in the field before the start of the 10 sec count

But if the dogs were summoned and reached MAX number before the count start i would say the charmer + the 5 or 7 dogs will make more dmg than a rogue. 

and thats what happen in arena and gvg and wars 

Thank you for the reply

 

We are also assuming that a rogue shall wait and allow said charmer to summon several dogs... it kinda makes no sense in such "competition", and that's still a further variable we shall take into account. There is no logical reason for a charmer to say "I'm a stronger damager" if the same charmer probably requested the rogue to "please wait until my area is full of dogs". 

 

It's a biased result. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Higgings said:

We are also assuming that a rogue shall wait and allow said charmer to summon several dogs.

 maybe the rogue and charmer is dead and waiting for the resspown time

While the charmer dogs still on the field doing dmg 

 

And thats will happen alot in crucible and gvg and War 

 

I didnt make any assumption in this topic all what i mentioned in this topic cames from ingame calculation like the ingame info that show the result after the arena finsh and dgs

 

 

2 hours ago, Speedom said:

The problem is that majority of these complaints are players with little to none knowledge on the class just because they seen a video.

This topic is about charmer 

And i made it becose i care about this game 

I didnt make the topic for insult

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 hours ago, TheCaster said:

In summary, Charmer are strong, yes; but the counterpart classes such as templar, druid, BD, are equally strong if not more. So if you're going to take something from their kit for arena, then you have to look into what you'll also be taking away from the sentinel counterparts.

Listen,

 

the dogs do massive damage for a 55% increase in their damage? Yes.

 

do they cause aoe damage  equally immense? Yes.

 

are they resistent? Yes.

 

Can they be 2 or 3? Yes.

 

Do they attack fast, relentlessly and non-stop? Yes.

 

Can they critical hit multiple times on someone with 60% resilience? Yes.

 

Do they need a book, pot or scroll to do all this? No.

 

now answer me,

Are these classes equally strong at this? and even more than that? Is there any comparison between them and this?:yawn1:

Screenshot_2021-07-27-11-33-12-1.png.a2c6344e89592852b43afbc9b4f066d7.pngScreenshot_2021-07-26-15-26-29-1.png.80a98754adc95cf9e8395e6db91d3866.pngIMG_20210727_114134.jpg.898d7d99d6606668a1679f35a39ddf01.jpg

Edited by Fabr
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Drakoknight said:

to make everyone shut up

Dont throw these wrods in this topic 

Becose if somone throw a word back

This topic will become a toxic topic

12 minutes ago, Fabr said:

Listen,

 

the dogs do massive damage for a 55% increase in their damage? Yes.

 

do they cause aoe damage  equally immense? Yes.

 

are they resistent? Yes.

 

Can they be 2 or 3? Yes.

 

Do they attack fast, relentlessly and non-stop? Yes.

 

Can they critical hit multiple times on someone with 60% resilience? Yes.

 

Do they need a book, pot or scroll to do all this? No.

 

now answer me,

Are these classes equally strong at this? and even more than that? Is there any comparison between them and this?:yawn1:

Screenshot_2021-07-27-11-33-12-1.png.a2c6344e89592852b43afbc9b4f066d7.pngScreenshot_2021-07-26-15-26-29-1.png.80a98754adc95cf9e8395e6db91d3866.pngIMG_20210727_114134.jpg.898d7d99d6606668a1679f35a39ddf01.jpg

Thank you so much for the effort you do 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, Jaidin said:

Putubali is bd with hight def and hight resil every one can inspect him 

But he still take a huge dmg from charmer dogs and crit dmg 

 

Screenshot_20210727_182940_com.android.chrome.jpg

Resilience increases damage taken by mobs so of course dmg will be high compared to that taken from players

Link to comment
Share on other sites

56 minutes ago, Fabr said:

Are these classes equally strong at this? and even more than that? Is there any comparison between them and this?:yawn1:

 

Comparison between classes is a lost cause. They are different each other and that's the way it should be. 

8 minutes ago, Drakoknight said:

Resilience increases damage taken by mobs so of course dmg will be high compared to that taken from players

 

They are not considered as mobs. Rather as players, since Ferocity works on them. If Fero works, then Resi does as well. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, Drakoknight said:

Resilience increases damage taken by mobs so of course dmg will be high compared to that taken from players

I think not. If so, it would be even more broken and there would have been complaints about it in the past when the class was released. This damage was done and calculated with def and resiliency. And just for reference,

Screenshot_2021-07-27-13-07-26-1.png.893d62796279fb057be34e5c0b69e503.png

 

6 minutes ago, Higgings said:

Comparison between classes is a lost cause. They are different each other and that's the way it should be. 

 

I agree.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, Higgings said:

Comparison between classes is a lost cause. They are different each other and that's the way it should be. 

Yes. Let one class be way stronger than all others and you will see what will happen to the game lmao. You know you can compare their "strenght", right? They can be 100% different but if one gives no chance to others then there's clearly something wrong

Edited by GalaxyRekt
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, triggeredAF said:

Yes. Let one class be way stronger than all others and you will see what will happen to the game lmao. You know you can compare their "strenght", right? They can be 100% different but if one gives no chance to others then there's clearly something wrong

 

Comparing their strenght alone is no different than saying "Sham stronger than BD" or in this case "Charmer stronger than Mage", Forgetting that the game allows (or actually, invites) to bring someone else on your side to fight the said threat. 

 

Wrong method all in all. A class' strength should be compared taking the environment into account and not other classes: how good that class is on GvG, Arena, PvE content etc... eventually comparing how similar classes do in that same environment. This way you can see whether a class is strong or not.

 

A class which requires one single build to run any content in the game needs to be nerfed. One class which can't run a specified content even when the owner has studied skills accordingly to the environment needs a buff.

 

With that I'm simply saying that you need many factors and scenarios to tag a class as "overpowered", and limiting the judgement basing it on "its strenght against other classes" is a wrong method to valuation. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

52 minutes ago, Higgings said:

 

Comparing their strenght alone is no different than saying "Sham stronger than BD" or in this case "Charmer stronger than Mage", Forgetting that the game allows (or actually, invites) to bring someone else on your side to fight the said threat. 

 

Wrong method all in all. A class' strength should be compared taking the environment into account and not other classes: how good that class is on GvG, Arena, PvE content etc... eventually comparing how similar classes do in that same environment. This way you can see whether a class is strong or not.

 

A class which requires one single build to run any content in the game needs to be nerfed. One class which can't run a specified content even when the owner has studied skills accordingly to the environment needs a buff.

 

With that I'm simply saying that you need many factors and scenarios to tag a class as "overpowered", and limiting the judgement basing it on "its strenght against other classes" is a wrong method to valuation. 

In the end you are just comparing classes. Sure you add some context but you are still comparing classes 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 minutes ago, triggeredAF said:

In the end you are just comparing classes. Sure you add some context but you are still comparing classes 

 

Quite too generic honestly. Comparing a class in your sense means testing it on one aspect only. I am just seeing different perspectives before judging one.

 

Plus, I could simply say that a class is objectively weak in a certain scenario and strong in another without mentioning any other specific class. Not for this I'm saying that the Class X is stronger than the Class Y, thus comparing classes. 

As I said in my previous statements, I am making an analysis of the class' attitude on different generic scenarios and eventually compare it with other similar classes. 

 

2 hours ago, Higgings said:

A class' strength should be compared taking the environment into account and not other classes: how good that class is on GvG, Arena, PvE content etc... eventually comparing how similar classes do in that same environment. This way you can see whether a class is strong or not.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Higgings said:

I could simply say that a class is objectively weak in a certain scenario and strong in another without mentioning any other specific class.

In a MMORPG? You're going to analyze classes individually in a game where class dynamics is the most important aspect? Interesting

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, triggeredAF said:

In a MMORPG? You're going to analyze classes individually in a game where class dynamics is the most important aspect? Interesting

 

You said it right - dynamics. That doesn't necessarily mean 1vs1 or arena. The game offers several other aspects. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That Charmer is op and strong because he made it op and strong. I've said this in other topics about how players make the classes strong because of the how certain stats can make a few skills very strong. Obviously, you can't beat that charmer who have better stats and setup better than you. Sheesh just look at him vs your mage. You can't win! Just except it! And that BD. Is the weakest bd I ever seen. If you go on US Sapphire, that bd won't be able to beat a pvp Necro.

Edited by Speedom
Typos
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Speedom said:

That Charmer is op and strong because he made it op and strong. I've said this in other topics about how players make the classes strong because of the how certain stats can make a few skills very strong. Obviously, you can't beat that charmer who have better stats and setup better than you. Sheesh just look at him vs your mage. You can't win! Just except it! And that BD. Is the weakest bd I ever seen. If you go on US Sapphire, that bd won't be able to beat a pvp Necro.

 Amp doesn't mean anything, At least in this case. What would change if this charmer had the same amp as the mage and bd? nothing, because this is all related to abilities and relics, and they are different for each class. And "he vs his mage" doesn't exist either, because it's a 1v1 and they're always unbalanced every time. The charmer would probably win too.:yawn1:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, Fabr said:

 Amp doesn't mean anything, At least in this case. What would change if this charmer had the same amp as the mage and bd? nothing, because this is all related to abilities and relics, and they are different for each class. And "he vs his mage" doesn't exist either, because it's a 1v1 and they're always unbalanced every time. The charmer would probably win too.:yawn1:

 

I mean , AMP always means a lot , in every scenario.

But not only amp. Build , relics , books , strategy , gameplay , practice and a lot of other variables.

 

I do agree that charmers are indeed really strong at arena content because of how versatile they are , they can have a really high dmg output and keep themselves and allies protected at the same time.

But its not like they are unstoppable , considering that arenas are not about 1v1 .

 

 

:interesting:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

27 minutes ago, Arthas said:

I do agree that charmers are indeed really strong at arena content because of how versatile they are , they can have a really high dmg output and keep themselves and allies protected at the same time.

But its not like they are unstoppable , considering that arenas are not about 1v1 .

The problem is that in the arena you have to pay attention, in addition to the other players, in this dog, if you leave it aside it will quickly wipe out your or your ally's hp, and if you focus on it you'll lose a precious moment that can cost a lot because it will free the charmer to use its controls or other skills, whereas the dog doesn't die so easily anymore.

Edited by Fabr
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Fabr said:

The problem is that in the arena you have to pay attention, in addition to the other players, in this dog, if you leave it aside it will quickly wipe out your or your ally's hp, and if you focus on it you'll lose a precious moment that can cost a lot because it will free the charmer to use its controls or other skills, whereas the dog doesn't die so easily anymore.

Players just need to have better communication with their arena partner. With so much win lose arena these days, players don't even know how to pvp anymore. They do win lose to get the gear they want and money dump into it and destroy players and spam trap players who spamming to get their needs. There's rarely charmers like this one honestly. Especially for pvp. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, Speedom said:

Players just need to have better communication with their arena partner. With so much win lose arena these days, players don't even know how to pvp anymore. They do win lose to get the gear they want and money dump into it and destroy players and spam trap players who spamming to get their needs. There's rarely charmers like this one honestly. Especially for pvp. 

Most of the "proper" arena matches I see is generally between elf and mc. If it's between the same alliance it's win lose

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 hours ago, Speedom said:

Obviously, you can't beat that charmer who have better stats and setup better than you. Sheesh just look at him vs your mage.

Who can beat him that charmer have over 70% win rate

He will wipe you in 5 sec no matter what you do you have no chance against him look at him and look at your char i already seen that you accepted your faith to be losser to charmers no one have a chance. 

I was quited the game and first when i noticed after few dmd in arena how charmer is broken

i just made one and already lvl 29

well all want to play the meta 

( zoo meta ) 

Edited by Jaidin
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Jaidin said:

Who can beat him that charmer have over 70% win rate

He will wipe you in 5 sec no matter what you do you have no chance against him look at him and look at your char i already seen that you accepted your faith to be losser to charmers no one have a chance. 

I was quited the game and first when i noticed after few dmd in arena how charmer is broken

i just made one and already lvl 29

well all want to play the meta 

( zoo meta ) 

Yea sure, in the server you play on I guess. Join US Sapphire. You'll see how players handle pvp Charmers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...