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Swooping army op


Fabr
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1 hour ago, Drakoknight said:

And yet the DK dmg reduction skills are quite weak

Yes, and yet the rugged hide is better than a blood protection.:fuck_that:

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16 hours ago, Fabr said:

Yes, and yet the rugged hide is better than a blood protection.:fuck_that:

literally every elf character has shield skill, while rugged hide reduces dmg, you guys have the potential to completely stay immortal for a period of time, go explore different build of your characters, I am chieftain myself with some of those books, yet i die.

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6 hours ago, Ahmed Didar said:

literally every elf character has shield skill,

Literally ranger does not have.

 

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2 minutes ago, Drakoknight said:

Ahem Evasion does it for them

Only a few dodge rangers. Most of them are Nuke build, but I don't blame.

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These shields are broken in less than 2 seconds, I think only the paladin's can take all this damage.

2 hours ago, Drakoknight said:

Druids got them covered

and who will protect the druid?

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19 minutes ago, Fabr said:

These shields are broken in less than 2 seconds, I think only the paladin's can take all this damage.

and who will protect the druid?

They literally protect themselves with roots, elemental, high dmg and control skills in general

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2 hours ago, Fabr said:

These shields are broken in less than 2 seconds, I think only the paladin's can take all this damage.

and who will protect the druid?

clearly you haven't seen a druid in action

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5 hours ago, Drakoknight said:

They literally protect themselves with roots, elemental, high dmg and control skills in general

It has anti stun going over the controls.

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Posted (edited)
On 8/8/2021 at 2:04 PM, Ahmed Didar said:

and? it's just few periods of a time. practice your timing

With this 4/4 anti stun it lasts a long time and it's a pain to deal with.

 

But I'm having a lot of trouble dealing with these chieftains when I go, for example, doing the daily quests on t4 of map 4 with a group, in the wastelands.

 

It deals a lot of damage very easily, swooping army does a lot of damage even on pvp gear with +7,+8 amplification. And it hits 3-4 members of my group. Coming face to face with an enemy group with 2 chieftains is a horror.

@Speedom told me a good tip, when he used the swooping army a seeker managed to pull him and silenced him, easy target :). But it doesn't always work, sometimes he just uses the anti stun and runs to attack.

A friend told me that it's better that everyone in the group attack the chieftain so he'll die as soon as possible. This actually works but we ended up taking a lot of damage anyway in the end.

The other day a physical chieftain killed a ranger from my group with literally 2 skills. Very frustrating.

Another thing is this skill that decreases damage and leaves you stuck, thrashing. I noticed that there are more chieftains leveling this skill now, I hadn't seen how much it reduces your damage. Very inconvenient when hitting dmg classes.

Edited by Fabr
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5 hours ago, Fabr said:

With this 4/4 anti stun it lasts a long time and it's a pain to deal with.

 

But I'm having a lot of trouble dealing with these chieftains when I go, for example, doing the daily quests on t4 of map 4 with a group, in the wastelands.

 

It deals a lot of damage very easily, swooping army does a lot of damage even on pvp gear with +7,+8 amplification. And it hits 3-4 members of my group. Coming face to face with an enemy group with 2 chieftains is a horror.

@Speedom told me a good tip, when he used the swooping army a seeker managed to pull him and silenced him, easy target :). But it doesn't always work, sometimes he just uses the anti stun and runs to attack.

A friend told me that it's better that everyone in the group attack the chieftain so he'll die as soon as possible. This actually works but we ended up taking a lot of damage anyway in the end.

The other day a physical chieftain killed a ranger from my group with literally 2 skills. Very frustrating.

Another thing is this skill that decreases damage and leaves you stuck, thrashing. I noticed that there are more chieftains leveling this skill now, I hadn't seen how much it reduces your damage. Very inconvenient when hitting dmg classes.

Ah yes there's is 2 skills that can make physical chief do nuke dmg. Seems like you're figuring out a way to counter chief. Keep up with the good work. Chief are pretty much a battle mage in this game. As we can understand that Swooping Army is not chiefs biggest threat against Seekers and Rangers. It's threat to classes with dodge build more than anything. 

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8 hours ago, Fabr said:

With this 4/4 anti stun it lasts a long time and it's a pain to deal with.

 

But I'm having a lot of trouble dealing with these chieftains when I go, for example, doing the daily quests on t4 of map 4 with a group, in the wastelands.

 

It deals a lot of damage very easily, swooping army does a lot of damage even on pvp gear with +7,+8 amplification. And it hits 3-4 members of my group. Coming face to face with an enemy group with 2 chieftains is a horror.

@Speedom told me a good tip, when he used the swooping army a seeker managed to pull him and silenced him, easy target :). But it doesn't always work, sometimes he just uses the anti stun and runs to attack.

A friend told me that it's better that everyone in the group attack the chieftain so he'll die as soon as possible. This actually works but we ended up taking a lot of damage anyway in the end.

The other day a physical chieftain killed a ranger from my group with literally 2 skills. Very frustrating.

Another thing is this skill that decreases damage and leaves you stuck, thrashing. I noticed that there are more chieftains leveling this skill now, I hadn't seen how much it reduces your damage. Very inconvenient when hitting dmg classes.

If you are dealing with pvp based character while you are pve you are supposed to take a beating anywhere.

Just now, Ahmed Didar said:

 

 

8 hours ago, Fabr said:

Another thing is this skill that decreases damage and leaves you stuck, thrashing. I noticed that there are more chieftains leveling this skill now, I hadn't seen how much it reduces your damage. Very inconvenient when hitting dmg classes.

Invest in resistance stats maybe?

8 hours ago, Fabr said:

With this 4/4 anti stun it lasts a long time and it's a pain to deal with.

 

But I'm having a lot of trouble dealing with these chieftains when I go, for example, doing the daily quests on t4 of map 4 with a group, in the wastelands.

 

It deals a lot of damage very easily, swooping army does a lot of damage even on pvp gear with +7,+8 amplification. And it hits 3-4 members of my group. Coming face to face with an enemy group with 2 chieftains is a horror.

@Speedom told me a good tip, when he used the swooping army a seeker managed to pull him and silenced him, easy target :). But it doesn't always work, sometimes he just uses the anti stun and runs to attack.

A friend told me that it's better that everyone in the group attack the chieftain so he'll die as soon as possible. This actually works but we ended up taking a lot of damage anyway in the end.

The other day a physical chieftain killed a ranger from my group with literally 2 skills. Very frustrating.

Another thing is this skill that decreases damage and leaves you stuck, thrashing. I noticed that there are more chieftains leveling this skill now, I hadn't seen how much it reduces your damage. Very inconvenient when hitting dmg classes.

 

2 minutes ago, Ahmed Didar said:

It deals a lot of damage very easily, swooping army does a lot of damage even on pvp gear with +7,+8 amplification. And it hits 3-4 members of my group.

There is only one way it can deal huge damage and that's by getting high % of critical stat otherwise it's shit

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6 hours ago, Ahmed Didar said:

If you are dealing with pvp based character while you are pve you are supposed to take a beating anywhere.

But we were with +7 - +8 pvp equipment.

6 hours ago, Ahmed Didar said:

Invest in resistance stats maybe?

Resisting it won't always work, it's just luck. Also invest in resisting = losing resiliency.

6 hours ago, Ahmed Didar said:

There is only one way it can deal huge damage and that's by getting high % of critical stat otherwise it's shit

A dmg aoe skill that does 275% magic damage with a large area is shit?:surprised1:

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23 hours ago, Fabr said:

A dmg aoe skill that does 275% magic damage with a large area is shit?:surprised1:

One thing I learned in warspear is that the math is not 100% accurate. There's always a formula. And obviously if you stayed in that aoe to take "275", time to come up with a new strategy. 

 

23 hours ago, Fabr said:

Resisting it won't always work, it's just luck. Also invest in resisting = losing resiliency.

You know pots and scrolls exist. But everyone trashed them as always. 

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2 hours ago, Speedom said:

You know pots and scrolls exist. But everyone trashed them as always. 

I save various pots and scrolls but hardly use them due to a lack of knowing when a battle is about to start. When I do use them they make a noticable change. The strongest paladin in US Sapphire Zeus and the strongest Blade Dancer SugarDaddy both use scrolls, pots, food, etc

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On 8/11/2021 at 10:26 AM, Speedom said:

One thing I learned in warspear is that the math is not 100% accurate. There's always a formula. And obviously if you stayed in that aoe to take "275", time to come up with a new strategy. 

I don't think there's anything wrong with the math in the game. And it's also difficult for me to leave the aoe area because he always ends up entering it on purpose and I'm a melee class, to not enter the area I have to simply not attack the chief.

On 8/11/2021 at 10:26 AM, Speedom said:

You know pots and scrolls exist. But everyone trashed them as always. 

The scrolls and pots I get are really bad and I throw them away, but I also never minded buying the good ones.:nah-crazy-rabbit-emoticon:

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7 hours ago, Fabr said:

I don't think there's anything wrong with the math in the game. And it's also difficult for me to leave the aoe area because he always ends up entering it on purpose and I'm a melee class, to not enter the area I have to simply not attack the chief.

The scrolls and pots I get are really bad and I throw them away, but I also never minded buying the good ones.:nah-crazy-rabbit-emoticon:

I feel ya pain because how 1 class can have an advantage over another which makes it difficult to counter. That's why players money dump for non-class expert skill books for higher stats in their arsenal. PvP in this game is actually hard when you're not in a high lvl guild vs a high lvl guild with their stat getting amped up. So if that's the case, you where probably in a disadvantage situation.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Speedom said:

I feel ya pain because how 1 class can have an advantage over another which makes it difficult to counter. That's why players money dump for non-class expert skill books for higher stats in their arsenal. PvP in this game is actually hard when you're not in a high lvl guild vs a high lvl guild with their stat getting amped up. So if that's the case, you where probably in a disadvantage situation.

Yes it's really bad to fight them with a melee class, the  Aoe damage skills hit us hard and we don't even have the option to run away from them. I'm in a lvl 8 guild and I've died to a chief without any guild.

Edited by Fabr
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Idk about this particular skill, but chieftains as a whole, do have some issues in my opinion.

 

Every class in this game has their weak and strong points. A bd is good at close range, but lacks the ability to close the gap. Warlocks have insanely strong cc for group fights, but they lack damage. Priests/necros are incredible support in dgs, but lack a bit in PvP. Rangers and hunters are cabable of dealing high dmg from afar, but are weaker once the gap has been closed. And the list just goes on and on

 

Then theres chiefs

 

They have a huge impact in group fights, with both their damage and thrashing skills cc. They're cabable of insanely high burst damage in both PvE and PvP. Their survivability is through the roof with rugged hide, heals and support of the pack. They're fast, and are cabable of closing the gap to an enemy easily with their increased movement speed and resists. And to top it all of, they can apply rugged hide to anyone in their party, making them practically immortal for a while, giving them a supportive role also.

 

I can't say if i'd necessarily call the class overpowered, but it really does lack a weakness. 

 

Not to mention, that in the right hands, you can abuse them to such incredibly high levels in arena. Luckily haven't ran into anyone pushing their limits that far yet, but the potential definitely is there.

Edited by vavavi
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5 hours ago, vavavi said:

but it really does lack a weakness. 

They have zero stun or silence skills. 

In fact it's the only class in game with absolutely no stuns or silence skills. 

 

Edited by TheCaster
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5 hours ago, vavavi said:

Luckily haven't ran into anyone pushing their limits that far yet

Ditto in the Sapphire server. We haven't seen anyone using pvp chieftains to their best potential yet. They're popular for GvGs and wars due to their AOE though. 

5 hours ago, vavavi said:

A bd is good at close range, but lacks the ability to close the gap.

As a ranged class user, I have to disagree here. The maximum distance most ranged classes keep is 5 yards at least to auto attack save the rare few who use range extender relic on their main skill. 

 

As long as a class is within that 7 yards, a rush + ham catches the opponent (even if 5 yards of rush doesn't stun, 2 yards of ham does the job) and its kinda game over for most players. 

 

The only option is to run really really far till the BD uses rush lol. :looser-crazy-rabbit-emoticon:

Edited by TheCaster
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1 hour ago, TheCaster said:

They have zero stun or silence skills. 

In fact it's the only class in game with absolutely no stuns or silence skills. 

 

They do have a root skill though. And when you're cabable of almost insta nuking every healer short of a fully awarded druid, the need for an "actual" stun is up for debate. When its classes that can actually hurt you (bds, rangers, rogues) you're only supposed to be dealing damage while almost immortal or immune to cc anyway, negating the need for stuns even more.

 

1 hour ago, TheCaster said:

The only option is to run really really far till the BD uses rush lol. 

Not to be rude, but if you're a ranger, druid, shaman or a hunter getting caught by bds, thats on you. 

 

1 hour ago, TheCaster said:

The rare few who use range extender relic on their main skill. 

 

A relic that increases your effective range by 40% shouldn't be rare amongst people who do arena. Thats huge utility that will come handy in almost every fight.

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Yea Chief does have a great utility to close in the gap. Hard to say how they're op in smaller fight since their utilities are for bigger fights (wars and gvg). In smaller fight when they become the main target, they seem to get washed easily. And that's probably because of their build more focus is bigger battle. Chief in 2v2 arena without win/lose will have to change their build and strategy to actually win. Their build are versatile just like any other classes, but certain build doesn't fit every scenario. As for Swooping Army, it's only good for Pve, Wars, GvG, and DGs. In a small battle against powerful build classes, that's when the struggle becomes real. 

Edited by Speedom
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45 minutes ago, vavavi said:

Not to be rude, but if you're a ranger, druid, shaman or a hunter getting caught by bds, thats on you. 

Warlock, but that's besides the point lol.

I'm not saying it's impossible to avoid BD rush and ham, but in most scenarios with the Resist and rush resist, BD does have a means and an advantage in closing the distance contrary to what you've mentioned. 

 

Maybe it's my perspective. I judge a BD based on its rush positioning and timing. 

 

BD resist has an ugly head though. I don't think many people have noticed this.

Let's say a BD uses resist scrolls and pots while it also has spirit of resistance skill on. 

All the control skills hit the gear resistance % while keeping the skill counts intact which enables the BD to charge in confidently knowing that control skills won't work on it.

 

In my humble opinion, that's the definition of too much resist. :imdead:

 

45 minutes ago, vavavi said:

A relic that increases your effective range by 40% shouldn't be rare amongst people who do arena. Thats huge utility that will come handy in almost every fight.

Agreed, it's very useful in arena. 

Edited by TheCaster
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1 hour ago, TheCaster said:

BD does have a means and an advantage in closing the distance contrary to what you've mentioned.

 

BD resist has an ugly head though. 

A good player can avoid bds fairly easily. I've played one for years now, and would like to think that I understand how to use the class to a decent degree. And still, the actually good rangers etc use me as a ping pong ball, without me having any counter to it. 

 

And about resist skill, i agree about that 100%. The only reason bds are *in my opinion* balanced, is that they just lack the ability to close the gap. Giving them 3 resists every 20 seconds is honestly just pointless, and a bit overkill. Would like to see the skill reworked a bit atleast. Maybe a longer cd, or instead of guaranteed resists make it a resist stat buff, something anyway.

 

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2 hours ago, vavavi said:

They do have a root skill though. And when you're cabable of almost insta nuking every healer short of a fully awarded druid, the need for an "actual" stun is up for debate. When its classes that can actually hurt you (bds, rangers, rogues) you're only supposed to be dealing damage while almost immortal or immune to cc anyway, negating the need for stuns even more.

 

Not to be rude, but if you're a ranger, druid, shaman or a hunter getting caught by bds, thats on you. 

 

A relic that increases your effective range by 40% shouldn't be rare amongst people who do arena. Thats huge utility that will come handy in almost every fight.

I as a DeathKnight uses a relic that increase Threads skill by 2 do I can pull support/ranged classes to me 

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5 hours ago, Speedom said:

Yea Chief does have a great utility to close in the gap. Hard to say how they're op in smaller fight since their utilities are for bigger fights (wars and gvg). In smaller fight when they become the main target, they seem to get washed easily. And that's probably because of their build more focus is bigger battle. Chief in 2v2 arena without win/lose will have to change their build and strategy to actually win. Their build are versatile just like any other classes, but certain build doesn't fit every scenario. As for Swooping Army, it's only good for Pve, Wars, GvG, and DGs. In a small battle against powerful build classes, that's when the struggle becomes real. 

When he changes the build it looks good. I see some chiefs in the 2v2 arena rank with the right build they can compete too.

4 hours ago, vavavi said:

And about resist skill, i agree about that 100%. The only reason bds are *in my opinion* balanced, is that they just lack the ability to close the gap. Giving them 3 resists every 20 seconds is honestly just pointless, and a bit overkill. Would like to see the skill reworked a bit atleast. Maybe a longer cd, or instead of guaranteed resists make it a resist stat buff, something anyway.

The problem with this skill is that it lasts a long time, and 3 stacks is a lot for 1 person to remove them all. But his cd is already quite loud, 35 sec. And those stacks are the weakness: they are quickly removed when it comes to war and gvg.

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On 8/14/2021 at 2:15 AM, Fabr said:

The problem with this skill is that it lasts a long time, and 3 stacks is a lot for 1 person to remove them all. But his cd is already quite loud, 35 sec. And those stacks are the weakness: they are quickly removed when it comes to war and gvg.

Only thing that is op for BD is their passive. Because of that, with their resist skill, makes them seems unbeatable due to their dmg output. Other than that, their resist skills is not hard to counter at all. 

 

On 8/14/2021 at 2:15 AM, Fabr said:

When he changes the build it looks good. I see some chiefs in the 2v2 arena rank with the right build they can compete too.

Oh yea definitely. Their single target build is interesting. The concept of it is similar in a way to BD. Instead of resist rush and stun. It's a resist sprint and slow debuff.

Edited by Speedom
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