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Swooping army op


Fabr
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First I want to talk about chieftain. All of his damage dealing abilities are % of the character's damage. The problem is that these percentages are unnecessarily high, even more so for an aoe class. And yet a hybrid chieftain (physical mace + magic mace) gets more magic damage than someone who uses a staff, with 2 magic maces and accessories that increase the percentage of magic damage they get extremely high magic damage, perfect to abuse the high values of his skills.

 

That's where the snooping army comes in.

• He can easily hit 3 members of a party or even more thanks to the large damage area.

• Disproportionately high damage. That's 5 hits for 55% of the character's magic damage, adding all 5 hits gives a total of 275% maximum damage. There are 5 seconds of effect, every second is 1 hit, 1 second is very fast.

• It can't even be dodged.

It's one hit, then another, then when you realize your party has lost a lot of hp because of 1 skill.

Edited by Fabr
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  • Fabr changed the title to Swooping army op
7 hours ago, Drakoknight said:

It's no more op than bd. 

A chieftain can kill a BD easily.

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16 hours ago, Fabr said:

Disproportionately high damage. That's 5 hits for 55% of the character's magic damage, adding all 5 hits gives a total of 275% maximum damage.

 

It's a wrong statement. You can always try to run away from that skill. 

 

Chieftain is a damage class. It has been designed to help the Legion side to challenge the Sentinel side in terms of movements and damage. Nerfing its damage output without giving another mean capable to replace the nerfed skill is like removing one of the healing abilities of a Healer because "it heals too much" and replacing it with no skills. Yes, we have seen classes who have received such nerfs, but they then received a mean to either compensate or simply they received a buff on other skills of theirs. (See wardens)

 

5 minutes ago, Fabr said:

A chieftain can kill a BD easily.

 

1vs1 doesn't show the strenght of a class for two reasons:

1. Game (whether you like it or not) is not designed for 1vs1, and a class strong in 1vs1 might suck in many vs many , the exact same scenario which sees DKs as protagonists.

2. According to this logic, every class capable to kill BD 1vs1 needs urgently a nerf: it's clearly not the way it works, don't you think? 

 

One nerf I would make is on Thrashing skill, as 50% dmg reduction AoE + Roots sounds quite broken for a primary skill buffable with relics. 

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Higgings said:

It's a wrong statement. You can always try to run away from that skill. 

 

Running doesn't work very well. Depending on where you are even trying to run it will still take a lot of damage because the hits are fast and stop you. But some classes like mage can jump out of the area. Also running is bad, a group of enemies attacking your group and what to do? run and let them down?

 

4 hours ago, Higgings said:

Chieftain is a damage class. It has been designed to help the Legion side to challenge the Sentinel side in terms of movements and damage. Nerfing its damage output without giving another mean capable to replace the nerfed skill is like removing one of the healing abilities of a Healer because "it heals too much" and replacing it with no skills. Yes, we have seen classes who have received such nerfs, but they then received a mean to either compensate or simply they received a buff on other skills of theirs. (See wardens)

 

But if a class does its function far beyond what would be "balanced", that means it needs a nerf. But it's also good that they are given a means to compensate for the nerfed skill, like what happened with the druid's secret bond, the earth's supreme supernatural force that healed someone with 1 hp to maximum now heals little but increases penetration .

4 hours ago, Higgings said:

1vs1 doesn't show the strenght of a class for two reasons:

1. Game (whether you like it or not) is not designed for 1vs1, and a class strong in 1vs1 might suck in many vs many 

2. According to this logic, every class capable to kill BD 1vs1 needs urgently a nerf: it's clearly not the way it works, don't you think?

1v1 looks more like "my class easily kills that one, but gets screwed with that other one", for example, bd easily kills a lock, and brb easily kills a bd because he has a lot of parry hp block, and this stone skin keeps reducing all damage hour and then it heals a lot of hp, but that doesn't mean brb is op, as it isn't. however this does not apply to Chieftain, because he is good in many vs many scenario and in gxg, because his skills are op.

 

 

Edited by Fabr
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1 hour ago, Fabr said:

Running doesn't work very well. Depending on where you are even trying to run it will still take a lot of damage because the hits are fast and stop you. But some classes like mage can jump out of the area. Also running is bad, a group of enemies attacking your group and what to do? run and let them down?

 

But if a class does its function far beyond what would be "balanced", that means it needs a nerf. But it's also good that they are given a means to compensate for the nerfed skill, like what happened with the druid's secret bond, the earth's supreme supernatural force that healed someone with 1 hp to maximum now heals little but increases penetration .

1v1 looks more like "my class easily kills that one, but gets screwed with that other one", for example, bd easily kills a lock, and brb easily kills a bd because he has a lot of parry hp block, and this stone skin keeps reducing all damage hour and then it heals a lot of hp, but that doesn't mean brb is op, as it isn't. however this does not apply to Chieftain, because he is good in many vs many scenario and in gxg, because his skills are op.

 

 

The chieftain was designed for aoe attacks. The chief sucks at 1v1 and was designed for many vs many as the legion lacks such classes. The only other class that seems to work for many vs many is dk but then again dk sucks because of the many nerfs it got because "it's too overpowered"

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Posted (edited)
27 minutes ago, Drakoknight said:

The chieftain was designed for aoe attacks. The chief sucks at 1v1 and was designed for many vs many as the legion lacks such classes.

Still this is not an excuse for the class to have overpowered skills, just because the faction doesn't have those class types. And he's an aoe dmg, but he has much better single target damage skills than the other classes focused on dealing damage to single targets. it's not that bad in 1v1 either, it can kill some classes using anti stun and attacking.

 

27 minutes ago, Drakoknight said:

only other class that seems to work for many vs many is dk but then again dk sucks because of the many nerfs it got because "it's too overpowered"

But shaman, necro, lock, hunter are also good. A magic dk can use the curse on someone, but I think that's it.

Edited by Fabr
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It's not as op if you have high resilience. But I do feel ya when your staff doesn't have much vs duel maces. 

 

Honestly, I feel like Chieftains and Templars cancel each other out for war. Legions are stacking with Chieftains. If Sentinels stack more Templar, there will be a topic just like yours.

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40 minutes ago, Fabr said:

Still this is not an excuse for the class to have overpowered skills, just because the faction doesn't have those class types. And he's an aoe dmg, but he has much better single target damage skills than the other classes focused on dealing damage to single targets. it's not that bad in 1v1 either, it can kill some classes using anti stun and attacking.

 

But shaman, necro, lock, hunter are also good. A magic dk can use the curse on someone, but I think that's it.

Magic dk is a joke but they did make it where Steel Hurricane can deal magic dmg if it prevails over physical dmg

 

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4 hours ago, Fabr said:

Also running is bad, a group of enemies attacking your group and what to do? run and let them down?

 

There's nothing wrong in running away from a futile fact. If yours is a matter of pride then it's a different story and definitely not a reason to nerf a skill.

 

4 hours ago, Fabr said:

1v1 looks more like "my class easily kills that one, but gets screwed with that other one", for example, bd easily kills a lock, and brb easily kills a bd because he has a lot of parry hp block, and this stone skin keeps reducing all damage hour and then it heals a lot of hp, but that doesn't mean brb is op, as it isn't. however this does not apply to Chieftain

 

Any comparison in 1vs1 scenario is a wrong method to judge whether a class is strong or not. The same doesn't apply to Chiefs cause all of them are different classes from each other. 

 

3 hours ago, Drakoknight said:

The only other class that seems to work for many vs many is dk

 

Although I wish this was true... no, big giant no. You would have to build a class based on a statistic which helps you on dealing damage, neglecting completely the already few skills it has got to defend himself. 

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14 minutes ago, Higgings said:

Although I wish this was true... no, big giant no. You would have to build a class based on a statistic which helps you on dealing damage, neglecting completely the already few skills it has got to defend himself. 

Many of the chosen classes has the best shield skills in the game. Blood Protection for dk is rather weak due to long cool down, short duration, and needs to be maxed out for anything considerable. Bone Shield is pretty good but doesn't last long. Why can't the Legion have something good without people crying "it's too good". Warden is a excellent tank, Paladin has great shield and great heal, Templar has great stuns, Seeker has great dmg. Barb has decent def and dmg, rogue has stealth, Necro has good healing. Tell me. Who is overpowered? 

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Higgings said:

There's nothing wrong in running away from a futile fact. If yours is a matter of pride then it's a different story and definitely not a reason to nerf a skill.

I think the gloogle translator translated it wrong. I meant that if I run I will stop helping my group kill the enemies and it could cost them their lives because I won't help kill the enemies before they kill my group.

6 hours ago, Higgings said:

Any comparison in 1vs1 scenario is a wrong method to judge whether a class is strong or not. The same doesn't apply to Chiefs cause all of them are different classes from each other. 

Yes that's right. I don't know why I brought this subject here.

5 hours ago, Drakoknight said:

Many of the chosen classes has the best shield skills in the game. Blood Protection for dk is rather weak due to long cool down, short duration, and needs to be maxed out for anything considerable. Bone Shield is pretty good but doesn't last long. Why can't the Legion have something good without people crying "it's too good". Warden is a excellent tank, Paladin has great shield and great heal, Templar has great stuns, Seeker has great dmg. Barb has decent def and dmg, rogue has stealth, Necro has good healing. Tell me. Who is overpowered? 

And lock has one of the best debuffs in the game, rogue has very high dodge, shaman has the best area healing in game  and the weakness totem is very good too, chieftain has the best aoe damage skill in game , and charmer is the king of pets. The sentinel side isn't the only one with good things.

Edited by Fabr
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Overall, the skill is fine where it's at. 55% is not high when you're going against 50% resilience with dmg reduction players(both side in war or arena). The skill is more of an anti dodge class(rogue, ranger, hunter, bd) and high dodge boss more than anything. 

 

Here's a tip, Chieftains always cast that skill 2nd after wolf to close in the gap. If you're using a class with some kiting abilities, just yeet his/her butt and you'll see them zig zag. Or root them.

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12 hours ago, Speedom said:

No geral, a habilidade é boa onde está. 55% não é alto quando você está enfrentando 50% de resiliência com jogadores de redução de dmg (ambos os lados na guerra ou na arena). A habilidade é mais uma classe anti-dodge (rogue, ranger, hunter, bd) e high dodge boss mais do que qualquer coisa.

As if it's easy to have 50% resilience.

 

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1 hour ago, Speedom said:

Actually, it's not as hard you think. Yes it's a grind fest for them gears and books. But it'll pay off at the end. 

still it doesn't make that much difference if the chieftain is with pvp maces. 

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4 hours ago, Fabr said:

still it doesn't make that much difference if the chieftain is with pvp maces. 

Best way to take on the chieftain is literally is to use strategy. Especially by using ranged weapons or skills that are ranged. Example- Knights Curse. It's best to keep distance and stuns 

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35 minutes ago, Drakoknight said:

Best way to take on the chieftain is literally is to use strategy. Especially by using ranged weapons or skills that are ranged. Example- Knights Curse. It's best to keep distance and stuns 

With melee classes you can't keep your distance. Either you attack or you run, but you can't run either. The wolf's ability will reduce your movement. Even if you have distance it runs to you very fast.

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4 minutes ago, Fabr said:

With melee classes you can't keep your distance. Either you attack or you run, but you can't run either. The wolf's ability will reduce your movement. Even if you have distance it runs to you very fast.

Get some resist stata. Switch it up a bit

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12 hours ago, Speedom said:

Well man, idk what to tell ya. I gave you enough tips. All on you now. Get good

Yes you gave me some tips. But I didn't ask how to kill a chieftain. That's not the problem. The problem is that sooner or later he will use the swooping army and do massive damage to me and my group.

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10 hours ago, Fabr said:

Yes you gave me some tips. But I didn't ask how to kill a chieftain. That's not the problem. The problem is that sooner or later he will use the swooping army and do massive damage to me and my group.

The tips I provided was survivability and strategies…

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On 7/20/2021 at 3:49 PM, Fabr said:

Yes you gave me some tips. But I didn't ask how to kill a chieftain. That's not the problem. The problem is that sooner or later he will use the swooping army and do massive damage to me and my group.

How does somebody dare to deal massive damage to this guy and his group? Devs? Can we make sure this guy and his group do not take any damage? 

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52 minutes ago, Mercurry said:

How does somebody dare to deal massive damage to this guy and his group? Devs? Can we make sure this guy and his group do not take any damage? 

Mage, paladins and bd can help you

Edited by Speedom
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59 minutes ago, Fabr said:

Mage and bd can help with what?

Ya know I just noticed that you're making topic on every class you're struggling against. I'll see ya on the Warlock's Class Discussions.

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27 minutes ago, Speedom said:

Sabe, acabei de notar que você está criando um tópico em todas as aulas contra as quais está lutando. Vejo você nas Discussões de Classe do Bruxo.

What? this topic is the first one I made on this forum.:jackie_chan_wat:

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