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Healing Totem: opinions and suggestions.


Vinagre
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6 hours ago, King Death said:

você estaria causando outro problema em vez de resolver o anterior. Imagine várias curas para ambos os lados com vários jogadores com 50% de resiliência em média, com pote HP. As lutas seriam muito mais longas do que hoje, e os GvGs onde se ganham pontos pelas mortes não seriam tão decisivos, já que haveria poucas mortes

Longer battles? Perfect, they would give more excitement to the WS content, not to mention that the battles would be more and more disputed and each second would be decisive.

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8 hours ago, Vinagre said:

yea and would also bring more variety on the battles, but in my opinion for this to work, an extensive review on how the healing totem is working atm.

When it comes to limiting the totem it is a bit complicated, I will use a banal example, just to exemplify my idea, supposing that a Guild has 100 Shamans, There would be 600 healing targets, if we limit it to 1 totem per player it would be the same as just 100 targets, where would the other 500 healing totem effects go? Of course, this is a very banal example, but considering the War it is not so difficult that this situation will happen one day, if it were really to limit in my view the ideal would be 6 totem per player, but I believe that it would not satisfy you in what you brought here.

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24 minutes ago, Diego Ferreira said:

Longer battles? Perfect,

maybe, for longer battles many area debuffs/buffs would also need a big adjustment.

11 minutes ago, Diego Ferreira said:

ideal would be 6 totem per player

6k(passive) healing each 3 seconds? still sounds op, but better then the 20k healing that a guild with 20 xamas is capable of doing atm.

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7 minutes ago, Vinagre said:

talvez, para batalhas mais longas, muitos debuffs / buffs de área também precisem de um grande ajuste.

6k (passivo) de cura a cada 3 segundos? ainda parece op, mas melhor do que a cura de 20k que uma guilda com 20 xamas é capaz de fazer atm.

Taking into account an increase in sentinel healing and a small limitation of 6 players, I believe that it would not be necessary to change the Legion's debuff, because this debuff is what keeps the legion standing in battle, as they do not have defensive skills as strong as the sentinels, the wizard's barrier is a good example of this, great for group battles, and has no break, just for time, of course a paid can die in this interval, but absorption of the sentinels is very OP, I believe it is precisely to hold the debuffs from the legion.

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2 minutes ago, Diego Ferreira said:

small limitation of 6 players,

do you realize that overall players have 5-8k hp? and if you change that for a max of 6 totems per player, nothing will change? what is the diference of healing 20k or 6k each 3 seconds?

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1 hour ago, Diego Ferreira said:

Longer battles? Perfect, they would give more excitement to the WS content, not to mention that the battles would be more and more disputed and each second would be decisive.

Try to think about the impossibility of being able to kill a guild while it attacks a pylon or the last flag. With a lot of healing + skill guild + pot the attacking guild will hardly die easily and will probably be able to take down pylons/ flag without much difficulty. Do you want to cause another imbalance or resolve this?

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11 minutes ago, King Death said:

Tente pensar na impossibilidade de ser capaz de matar uma guilda enquanto ela ataca um pilar ou a última bandeira. Com muita cura + guilda de habilidades + pote, a guilda atacante dificilmente morrerá facilmente e provavelmente será capaz de derrubar postes / bandeiras sem muita dificuldade. Você quer causar outro desequilíbrio ou resolver isso?

A Guild would not be able to attack and defend at the same time, or it will focus on destroying the enemy or the enemy will destroy it, and to maintain a healing, damage classes would be reduced, so the overall guild damage would also be reduced.

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4 minutes ago, Diego Ferreira said:

so the overall guild damage would also be reduced

well but still don't solve the problem he said. They will survive more and will just tank and take the objectives. 

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Diego Ferreira said:

A Guild would not be able to attack and defend at the same time, or it will focus on destroying the enemy or the enemy will destroy it, and to maintain a healing, damage classes would be reduced, so the overall guild damage would also be reduced.

Negative, you are completely mistaken. There is not only KINGDOM / ANCESTRAIS in the game. How many times have I seen guilds win GvG mermem or even map war 2 Just focusing on a fixed target. In addition to which damage reduction classes would be virtually immortal 

In these scenarios the shaman would be even more in demand, as he would just throw a totem and heal everyone while everyone hit the pylon or flag target

Edited by King Death
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2 minutes ago, Vinagre said:

bem, mas ainda não resolve o problema, disse ele. Eles vão sobreviver mais e apenas tanque e tomarão os objetivos. 

When you focus on an objective, some things are left aside, among them the damage to your enemies, so if the enemy does not take damage for what would he use healing? soon he would also focus on damage and debuff to kill the enemy as quickly as possible, so it would be an exchange of targets

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2 minutes ago, King Death said:

Negativo, você está completamente enganado. Não existe apenas REINO / ANCESTRAL no jogo. Quantas vezes eu já vi guildas ganharem GvG mermem ou até guerra de mapas 2 Apenas focando em um alvo fixo. Além disso, as classes de redução de danos seriam virtualmente imortais

I did not understand, at what time I mentioned specific guilds, I speak in general for all, and if you are going to take these guilds as you say, at most they might have the ability to attack and defend, after all they are the biggest of your server, but the consideration here are Guild battles in general.

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13 minutes ago, Diego Ferreira said:

I did not understand, at what time I mentioned specific guilds, I speak in general for all, and if you are going to take these guilds as you say, at most they might have the ability to attack and defend, after all they are the biggest of your server, but the consideration here are Guild battles in general.

You didn’t mention it, but even this comment makes me think that it’s only aimed at that specific fight. 

But do you realize the problem it would cause in other scenarios? It's like you give too much firepower without consequence

In the scenarios I talked about, there would simply be no combat, everyone would just take down a pylon or flag without a fight

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3 minutes ago, King Death said:

Você não mencionou, mas até esse comentário me faz pensar que é só para aquela luta específica. 

Mas você percebe o problema que isso causaria em outros cenários? É como se você desse muito poder de fogo sem consequências

Nos cenários que mencionei, simplesmente não haveria combate, todos apenas derrubariam um poste ou bandeira sem lutar

I understand, but I didn't even think about the battle of the topic itself, I thought about Wars, but let's think that there would also be evils for that, because if you exchange damage players to include players with high healing to survive more, you are sacrificing the damage to hit the goal, be it Pilone or Flag, I will not even consider the Throne because in my view major adjustments must be made to it.

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12 minutes ago, Diego Ferreira said:

not even consider the Throne

Yes, I also forgot about this scenario

13 minutes ago, Diego Ferreira said:

but let's think that there would also be evils for that, because if you exchange damage players to include players with high healing to survive more, you are sacrificing the damage to hit the goal, be it Pilone or Flag

Yes maybe. But what if they don't? And if 10 priests are enough for 15 seekers to take down the pylons? Most likely we would have another post like this talking about high sentinel healing, and so once again we would disturb the peace of the developers

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26 minutes ago, King Death said:

Sim, também me esqueci deste cenário

Sim talvez. Mas e se não o fizerem? E se 10 sacerdotes forem suficientes para 15 buscadores derrubarem os postes? Provavelmente teríamos outro post como este falando sobre cura de alta sentinela e, mais uma vez, perturbaríamos a paz dos desenvolvedores

In this case, if only the 10 priests were needed for this purpose, why was this topic started? There would be no need for changes in the Shaman.

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Just now, Diego Ferreira said:

There would be no need for changes in the Shaman.

dude we have the discussion, you do understand how OP stacks of totem are working, the devs will read and decide what to do...
You know also that the debuffs combo is way better at legion then in sentinels, that is why you want to keep the healing capabilitys of xamas healing totem, that way legion would win anyways... just stop it. please?

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11 minutes ago, Dono da verdade said:

estão saindo do assunto. não comente nada a ver com o tópico

The same issue persists, balancing classes.

At no time did we go out of focus, we are here discussing various scenarios.

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2 minutes ago, Diego Ferreira said:

At no time did we go out of focus, we are here discussing various scenarios.

make a new topic explaining your exemples and how they would interact! i would be happy to review it

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Just now, Vinagre said:

faça um novo tópico explicando seus exemplos e como eles interagiriam! eu ficaria feliz em revisá-lo

Well, my goal here is to show the scenarios that changing the topic would affect, opening a new topic would end up duplicating a discussion that is having a good development here.

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Posted (edited)

 

2 minutes ago, Diego Ferreira said:

Well, my goal here is to show the scenarios that changing the topic would affect, opening a new topic would end up duplicating a discussion that is having a good development here.

Well ok, but seems like even if ppl agree that it's necessary a change, you want to find a way, any to keep it how it's right now..

and that's not really productive, but please feel free to go on, after all we all need to express

Edited by Vinagre
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10 minutes ago, Vinagre said:

 

Bem, ok, mas parece que mesmo se as pessoas concordarem que é necessária uma mudança, você quer encontrar uma maneira de mantê-la como está agora ..

I considered the changes, however, @Rei Morte deviated showing that there would be no need for the change, but I believe that in the scenario shown by himself, modifications would not be necessary, how about we explore others?

 

@Vinagrewhat do you think of totems without the effect of healing buffs?

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Let us also return to the issue of the globe that was also left out, I believe that there is a reason for it to be as it is, precisely to bring a twist to the use of skill. The blessing, for example, can leave you irreversible when you leave it, the sponsorship can be broken with high amounts of damage, invisibility that can be removed when using skills, as well as hybrid classes are not affected at least, being the Templario, Paladin, Dk, Cacique and Ecantador, what other solutions could be made without the need for an 80% reduction? Why do I believe that the effect of it reversing damage is deliberate, that other changes could be made in relation to these hybrid classes?

What if instead of just reversing the damage the globe also reduced the effect of skills by a certain%?

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11 hours ago, King Death said:

you would be causing another problem instead of solving the previous one. Imagine multiple cures for both sides with multiple players with 50% resilience on average, with HP pot. The fights would go on much longer than it is today, and GvGs where points are earned for deaths would not be so decisive, since there would be few deaths

 

4 hours ago, Diego Ferreira said:

Longer battles? Perfect, they would give more excitement to the WS content, not to mention that the battles would be more and more disputed and each second would be decisive.

 

3 hours ago, King Death said:

Try to think about the impossibility of being able to kill a guild while it attacks a pylon or the last flag. With a lot of healing + skill guild + pot the attacking guild will hardly die easily and will probably be able to take down pylons/ flag without much difficulty. Do you want to cause another imbalance or resolve this?

 

1 hour ago, Diego Ferreira said:

I considered the changes, however, @Rei Morte deviated showing that there would be no need for the change, but I believe that in the scenario shown by himself, modifications would not be necessary,

Or u dont read what u write, or u have a very shot memory, or maybe you really lacked interpretation... because I explained that not modifying the healing totem mechanics, but changing the healing in the sentinels area would cause another problem in instead, resolve.

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1 hour ago, Diego Ferreira said:

What if instead of just reversing the damage the globe also reduced the effect of skills by a certain%?

U should read everything before starting a discussion, because everything has been suggested and u are just being repetitive

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1 minute ago, King Death said:

U should read everything before starting a discussion, because everything has been suggested and u are just being repetitive

Reducing the damage and reducing the effect of skills are a bit different

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9 minutes ago, Khrone said:

Reducing the damage and reducing the effect of skills are a bit different

But it would not have any efficiency, because class with 70% speed would have no effect

I think the best solution is the one suggested in the post

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Posted (edited)

I ask you to please reread what I meant about the globe.

 

On 5/7/2021 at 5:39 PM, King Death said:

 

 

 

Or u dont read what u write, or u have a very shot memory, or maybe you really lacked interpretation... because I explained that not modifying the healing totem mechanics, but changing the healing in the sentinels area would cause another problem in instead, resolve.

Because of this, this change in the sentinels showed that the real problem would not be healing the Legion, but healing the game in general. For in your own example you say that 10 priests and 15 explorers could break a defense where the goal was a Pilone Flag etc.

On 5/7/2021 at 5:57 PM, King Death said:

U should read everything before starting a discussion, because everything has been suggested and u are just being repetitive

Yes I read the topic completely, I know the suggestions very well.

 

On 5/7/2021 at 5:57 PM, King Death said:

U should read everything before starting a discussion, because everything has been suggested and u are just being repetitive

What I said I repeated was not the suggestion, I exemplified why questioning a little about the way the globe works.

On 5/7/2021 at 6:12 PM, King Death said:

But it would not have any efficiency, because class with 70% speed would have no effect

I think the best solution is the one suggested in the post

My goal may not have been clear, I'm sorry, but what I say is to add a new effect to the globe, which reduces the effectiveness of skills, I ask you to reread what I sent to understand why just transforming it into a reduction could change its essence.

Edited by Diego Ferreira
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7 hours ago, Diego Ferreira said:

@Vinagrewhat do you think of totems without the effect of healing buffs?

they are ok, not OP, but the problem is how they work, not how strong the heal is (my opinion) 

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Posted (edited)

* I want to highlight the specific "healing totem" ability of the shaman, where he heals several people regardless of having another totem doing this work, thus accumulating healings one after the other that ends up being difficult to play against because they succeed keep "the whole guild" with absurd support *

 

_A suggestion would be to put the same mechanics as the Templar's "Statue of deity" ability, leaving a "Buff" on the target where he will receive healing from only a Totem for as long as the ability lasts ..._

 

* And also put the guild ability "Magic globe of the guild" in palms where it has no effectiveness in the "Cacique" class due to the fact that it manages to have a high damage on both sides "Physical and Magic" leaving with a good advantage since in the "Sentinels" alliance, a class is compared to the damage of a Chieftain *

 

_A suggestion would be to change the mechanics of the "Magic Guild Globe" to decrease the damage caused by a certain percentage, and not to reverse the physical damage with a magician_

 

* We know that you are doing your best to maintain good gameplay for both sides in the game, and these are 2 points where you could pay attention, thanks. *

 

Edited by Higgings
Please, use normal sized letters
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On 5/7/2021 at 2:55 AM, Khrone said:

If it was a buff given, wouldn't it work the same way as it is now, since the Totem would be constantly apllying the buff again?

nobody talks about the effect of the magic globe, which doesn’t work against the chief

 

leave your opinions about Magic Globe ,. guild skill

On 5/7/2021 at 8:41 PM, Diego Ferreira said:

O que eu disse que repeti não foi a sugestão, exemplifiquei porque questionar um pouco sobre o funcionamento do globo.

Meu objetivo pode não ter ficado claro, desculpe, mas o que digo é adicionar um novo efeito ao globo, que reduza a eficácia das habilidades, peço que releia o que enviei para entender por que apenas transformá-lo em um a redução pode mudar sua essência.

globe should leave everyone in the area with -10000 damage and physical defense

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Dono da verdade said:

leave your opinions about Magic Globe ,. guild skill

globe should leave everyone in the area with -10000 damage and physical defense

Or just 0 :are_you_fucking_kidding_me:

 

Also -10K Physical Defense?

Wouldn't it be easier if the Globe dealt insta-kill on area? :are_you_fucking_kidding_me:

Edited by Khrone
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12 hours ago, King Death said:

Sim, também me esqueci deste cenário

Sim talvez. Mas e se não o fizerem? E se 10 sacerdotes forem suficientes para 15 buscadores derrubarem os postes? Provavelmente teríamos outro post como este falando sobre cura de alta sentinela e, mais uma vez, perturbaríamos a paz dos desenvolvedores

explorer dies easy before he can hit the Pillars.

1 minute ago, Khrone said:

Or just 0 :are_you_fucking_kidding_me:

 

this would make the skills more useful in gvg and wars
2 minutes ago, Khrone said:

Ou apenas 0 : are_you_fucking_kidding_me:

 

have any better ideas?

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, Dono da verdade said:

this would make the skills more useful in gvg and wars

No, it would make the skill broken.

There is literally nothing in the game that can decrease damage and/or defense to 0 (just the Xmas stat that ignores 100% of the enemy's defense, but it only works for basic attacks and works with a chance)

Edited by Khrone
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1 minute ago, Khrone said:

Não, isso faria com que a habilidade fosse quebrada.

Não há literalmente nada no jogo que possa diminuir o dano e / ou defesa para 0 (apenas a estatística de Natal que ignora 100% da defesa do inimigo, mas só funciona para ataques básicos e funciona com uma chance)

Lock skill

does lose 80% of its defense

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Just now, Dono da verdade said:

Lock skill

does lose 80% of its defense

Magical Defense only

It needs to be 4/4

It can be resisted

You can just get out of the zone

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8 hours ago, Dono da verdade said:

leave your opinions about Magic Globe ,. guild skill

globe should leave everyone in the area with -10000 damage and physical defense

LOL this is surreal, it would literally be a globe of death, I believe it reverses damage just so that it can be caunteravelable, but in a reduced way, what happens here is that the chief’s skills are more efficient for damage than the other hybrids, for this suggested reducing the effect of the ability as well.

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23 minutes ago, Diego Ferreira said:

the chief’s skills are more efficient for damage than the other hybrids

Not exactly :piggy:

What about Templar?

It has a shield that uses 275% of the sum of both types of damage, so reversing it wouldn't change the HP of the shield.

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9 hours ago, Dono da verdade said:

Lock skill

does lose 80% of its defense

But the wizard's zone can be resisted, in addition to being an area only 3x3, while the globe catches a part of the area almost completely if well positioned and the zone has a target limit, the globe catches all.

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2 minutes ago, Khrone said:

Not exactly :piggy:

What about Templar?

It has a shield that uses 275% of the sum of both types of damage, so reversing it wouldn't change the HP of the shield.

In this case, my suggestion of reducing the effects of skills would go down well, let's say the globe reduced efficiency by 50% of skills, these classes would no longer be a problem.

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