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The buff this class always deserved


Higgings
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Hello and welcome to my topic!

 

It's quite a lot I've been thinking about whether making this topic or not, but since some new experts are going to be released, my final hope is that these suggestions are going to be at least reviewed by our beloved admins.

 

Since quite a bit now we have seen the game getting newer and newer updates, filled with hard and challenging battles which needed the player's attention and the guild's strategy to achieve the victory. Every time classes prepared properly for these events, and so did my own class: Death Knight. What I am feeling though is that, if every single update, every class tried something new (in terms of skill build or at last even items) my own class had nothing new to try, since there was not and there still is not anything new and worth to try; if every other tank had the possibility to rely on a new skill, it's for 2 years that my own class relies on the same build. Nothing new to try, nothing that gives us an actual chance to test new builds. The obstinate tendency to give this class magic damage skills which deal enemies (eventually) even good ammount of damage, forgetting that we are tanks, and such source of power should be used to make us live longer, and not to steal another class' job. The apparently unreasonable choice to give this class a unique meta - Life Steal -- but no skills or items that would stack with this statistic more than any other class would do, not to count that to use such skill it's necessary to sacrifice a tremendous ammount of HPs for a tank. Since recently I was asked what kind of buff I would give this class, I'm here then to suggest something that might change the current situation of this, in my opinion, neglected class. 

 

- First of all, Saturation. This skill gives Life Steal for a high price. Now, options are 2: you either remove this cost, as it's illogic to pay 10% of HPs whereas classes like Bladedancers can walk with 40% of basic damage augmentation for free; or you give this skill an actual justification for this secondary price. Since you won't remove this secondary price, here's my idea

 

Effect: Death Knight receives a buff in life steal (10/15/20/25) for (8/13/18/25) seconds. Depending on the weapon he carries: 1h weapon + shield - Additionally Increases the Block parameter by (3/5/7/10%) and Parry parameter by  (3/5/7/10%) - 2h weapon - Increases the physical and magical damage by (6/9/12/15%) and the penetration parameter by (2/5/8/12%) 

 

Reason and Comments: This is one of the tanks which have got no defensive statistic augmentation skills - like litterally 0. All I'm doing is giving an actual reason to pay these 10% hps, which for a PvE tank, it's like 800+ hps. On PvP scenario there still are several skills that deserve to be leveled more than this one, so we should put some sort of attention when building our character in PvP

 

- Second, Knight's Curse: I'll never get why Death Knights needed such a skill instead of a defensive one, but since it's too late, let's give it a sort of reason for a tank to have this skill.

 

Effect: [same effect of the current skill but with one addition] If the Death Knight stands on the fire ground his own skill generated, his Health Point are restored by (10/20/30/40%) depending on the Death Knight's magic damage and the skill's level.

 

Reason and Comments: since it's a skill that has been recently nerfed, its role in the game is unexistant, as enemies (who could've ever said it?) have got no problems on walking away from the 3x3 flaming area generated by the skill itself. Before flames could even trigger, it's necessary to debuff the enemy with such skill (as a debuff, it can be resisted). Maxing it out would make the initial debuff last 8 seconds and that means Opponent Players have got more than enough time to eventually cure themselves from this debuff. I repeat: we are tanks, and there's no reason whatsoever to use this skill only to deal damage, since classes like warlocks or shamans are far better than us in this sense

 

- Third, Blood Protection, one of the most popular skills this class has got (and the 2nd of all of our skills that we can call "defensive"...). Should the aforementioned changes be accepted, here's my idea for this skill.

 

Effect: Passive: Only if MAX HPs < (30/45/55/70%). Every time the Death Knight receives damage (DoT excluded), with a chance of X where X is the ammount of Life Steal, the Death Knight receives one Blood Point (under his HUD). The Death Knight shall see the damage reduced by 3% for every Blood Point obtained, Once the Death Knight reaches 5 Blood Points, he will receive the Blood Protection buff in exchange of all of his Blood Points, which will last for (5/10/15/20) seconds. During that time, all of the debuffs this class receives shall last for -X% shorter where X is the ammount of Life Steal this class has got, and all of the buffs he has got shall last for +X% more where X is the anmount of Life Steal this class has got. The buff can be dispelled and as soon as the DK reaches a higher percentage of HPs, all of the Blood Points so far acquired shall go to 0 and the Blood Protection buff shall disappear. 

 

Reasons and Comments: It is a buff that shall trigger only if this class suffers too much damage. It shall help it to avoid being a dummy, as this class heavily lacks of mobility as well (on the contrary of 3 of the 5 colleagues, which can teleport/move faster/rush to an enemy immediatly). Tanks are supposed to initiate fights, and since the only way we can do that is to pull from 7 yards some classes  (some of which actually like being pulled - Paladins, Druids, Mages... ) with the hope that the skill doesn't get resisted, this skill can be considered as a Plan B. Besides, the meta of this class is Life Steal so I'm just giving another reason for that 10% of HPs from Saturation to be paid. 

 

Further Considerations: Exhalation of Darkness. We arrived to a situation where seekers deal 11k dmg with their basic hits, but we consider a sacrilege to return the critical hit to this skill. I believe it's time for a change. Moreover, let Terrible Relic of Control be placed in this skill... Most (if not all) of the other classes have got this relic on their control skills, except Death Knights. I see no reason for this situation to be kept on.

 

Blow of the Silence: allow the effect to be casted on several targets at once, shoud the effect hit many targets simultaneously. Add eventually a limit of targets who can be affected by this skill, depending on the level of the skill itself. Several classes can stun/disable many enemies at once, some even with their basic skills. As an expert skill, this would help the DK to be useful in Many vs Many scenarios.

 

For now, that's all. I'm here to read your opinions and feedbacks. All I'm asking is to keep in mind the current situation this class is running through, and to write your comments with points and means so that a pleasant conversation could be started. I thank you all in advance!

 

:uhuh:

 

 

Edited by Higgings
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A lot of "too strong", "too many stats given for a single skill" etc can be said, but let's not forget;

 

Seekers get free 15% attack speed % penetration

Bladedancers get 40% auto attack with no drawbacks

Barbs have stone skin, attack speed/penetration/damage buffs (forgot %s)

Rogues get 35% attack speed/cooldown reduce with no drawbacks

etc

 

List goes on, and what im trying to say is, they're not overpowered, they're not so strong enough that'll overwhelm every other class, they're just how they should've probably been from the beginning of their release. Props to the author for the imagination, and hope this gets seen so I can resume my dk

 

Question being though, for the Saturation with 2h, should there be the 15% attack buff when there's already aura of hatred?

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9 minutes ago, Hourai said:

Question being though, for the Saturation with 2h, should there be the 15% attack buff when there's already aura of hatred?

 

That was the idea, it can stack indeed. But 2h weapons are usually slower than normal weapons, and for a decent version of that, you would need to build your character fully based on Attack Speed. The hope was also to buff Magic Damage altogether with Physical one, and also all of the magic damage skills such as Knight's Curse healing abilities. Not to count that you can't max everything out, hence you'll have to make choices when building this class.

 

I came up with these skills thanks to a simple question I've been asking myself lately: why would People choose DKs as characters over other tanks? Strenght? Controlling abilities? Defence (lol)? Other tanks have got these statistics in a better measure than DKs. There's litterally no reason to pick this class aside the "I like the concept of this class and I don't care to spend tons of money/play for several years by amping items that won't buff my skills therefore my tanking abilities anyway".

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1 hour ago, Higgings said:

- First of all, Saturation. This skill gives Life Steal for a high price. Now, options are 2: you either remove this cost, as it's illogic to pay 10% of HPs whereas classes like Bladedancers can walk with 40% of basic damage augmentation for free; or you give this skill an actual justification for this secondary price. Since you won't remove this secondary price, here's my idea

 

Effect: Death Knight receives a buff in life steal (10/15/20/25) for (8/13/18/25) seconds. Depending on the weapon he carries: 1h weapon + shield - Additionally Increases the Block parameter by (3/5/7/10%) and Parry parameter by  (3/5/7/10%) - 2h weapon - Increases the physical and magical damage by (6/9/12/15%) and the penetration parameter by (2/5/8/12%) 

 

Reason and Comments: This is one of the tanks which have got no defensive statistic augmentation skills - like litterally 0. All I'm doing is giving an actual reason to pay these 10% hps, which for a PvE tank, it's like 800+ hps. On PvP scenario there still are several skills that deserve to be leveled more than this one, so we should put some sort of attention when building our character in PvP

this is a interesting and well deserved rework, i agree but since the aura already increases the atk and there also is pene in the mix i consider it a bit too much...
IF THAT SKILL DOSENT TAKE U AN AMOUNT OF HP THAT CAN CAUSE URSELF TO SUICIDE EASLY

 

1 hour ago, Higgings said:

- Second, Knight's Curse: I'll never get why Death Knights needed such a skill instead of a defensive one, but since it's too late, let's give it a sort of reason for a tank to have this skill.

 

Effect: [same effect of the current skill but with one addition] If the Death Knight stands on the fire ground his own skill generated, his Health Point are restored by (10/20/30/40%) depending on the Death Knight's magic damage and the skill's level.

 

Reason and Comments: since it's a skill that has been recently nerfed, its role in the game is unexistant, since enemies (who could've ever said it?) have got no problems on walking away from the 3x3 flaming area generated by the skill itself. Before flames could even trigger, it's necessary to debuff the enemy with such skill. Maxing it out would make the initial debuff last 8 seconds and that means Opponent Players have got more than enough time for ever to cure from this debuff. I repeat: we are tanks, and there's no reason whatsoever to use this skill only to deal damage, since classes like warlocks or shamans are far better than us in this sense

this has a issue, ovewer the skill might be well more balanced for pvp, its not on a pve side due the enemies wont walk away and i can say basicaly all of em with 2(?) exceptions are capable to heal themselves from it (in the base game aka no event), since the knights would be easly capable to  heal 200+ hp/tick (wich combined with the rework of saturation) might cause the deathknight to gain an massive self heal in anything outside the endgame where the enemies have massive deffence), i would more consider it a combo effect with blood protection or saturation 
 

1 hour ago, Higgings said:

- Third, Blood Protection, one of the most popular skills this class has got (and the 2nd of all of our skills that we can call "defensive"...). Should the aforementioned changes be accepted, here's my idea for this skill.

 

Effect: Passive: Only if MAX HPs < (30/45/55/70%). Every time the Death Knight receives damage (DoT excluded), with a chance of X where X is the ammount of Life Steal, the Death Knight receives one Blood Point (under his HUD). The Death Knight shall see the damage reduced by 3% for every Blood Point obtained, Once the Death Knight reaches 5 Blood Points, he will receive the Blood Protection buff in exchange of all of his Blood Points, which will last for (5/10/15/20) seconds. During that time, all of the debuffs this class receives shall last for -X% shorter where X is the ammount of Life Steal this class has got, and all of the buffs he has got shall last for +X% more where X is the anmount of Life Steal this class has got. The buff can be dispelled and as soon as the DK reaches a higher percentage of HPs, all of the Blood Points so far acquired shall go to 0 and the Blood Protection buff shall disappear. 

 

Reasons and Comments: It is a buff that shall trigger only if this class suffers too much damage. It shall help it to avoid being a dummy, as this class heavily lacks of mobility as well (on the contrary of 3 of the 5 colleagues, which can teleport/move faster/rush to an enemy immediatly). Tanks are supposed to initiate fights, and since the only way we can do that is to pull from 7 yards some classes  (some of which actually like being pulled - Paladins, Druids, Mages... ) with the hope that the skill doesn't get resisted, this skill can be considered as a Plan B. Besides, the meta of this class is Life Steal so I'm just giving another reason for that 10% of HPs from Saturation to be paid. 

this is interesting how it would work, but i think it should work more on the basis of u have to cast it and ect but
when the skills thorns and/or deathcall deals dmg it increased the skill duration by 0.2-0.4-0.6-0.8 seconds up to 10 times while also the dmg assorbtion goes up by 1-1.5-2-2.5-3% for each of the following bonus stack , garanting the skil to have a duration of  extra 8 seconds (wich is much considering its cooldown) and up to 70% dmg assorbtion wich is a goddamn lot, 10 hits as a dk with the following skills are easly done in pve (aka means u get way more tankier) and cant say much the same in pvp where u can pretty easly... taken away
the onlyreason u dont agree with it is beacuse i think if the skill would work this way it woul be way more fun to play
these are my toughts 

Edited by lore
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1 minute ago, lore said:

IF THAT SKILL TAKES U AN AMOUNT OF HP THAT CAN CAUSE URSELF TO SUICIDE EASLY

 

This is really my only concern with the whole mentality of the skill. 10% of HP is required to cast and you can't cast it if below that (if its anywhere like Necro's casts)

At endgame pve a DK will have at minimum 8k HP, and you cast the skill before a fight, leaving you with 7200 HP, which is still plenty, considering you just gained 25% lifesteal to recover all of that plus more. It's not a bad cost, it's just stupid to pay HP to gain lifesteal for a lot less time than what the cooldown is. If you could cycle it im sure it'd be a lot better already

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26 minutes ago, lore said:

this is a interesting and well deserved rework, i agree but since the aura already increases the atk and there also is pene in the mix i consider it a bit too much...
IF THAT SKILL DOSENT TAKE U AN AMOUNT OF HP THAT CAN CAUSE URSELF TO SUICIDE EASLY

 

This is why I added that many buffs. 2h weapons also mean lack of defence, which for this class is not something to understimate, as we are the most squishy tank existing rn. Same principle as BDs: weak defence but High attack to compensate. It works for them, why shouldn't it work for us?

 

26 minutes ago, lore said:

this has a issue, ovewer the skill might be well more balanced for pvp, its not on a pve side due the enemies wont walk away and i can say basicaly all of em with 2(?) exceptions are capable to heal themselves from it (in the base game aka no event), since the knights would be easly capable to  heal 200+ hp/tick (wich combined with the rework of saturation) might cause the deathknight to gain an massive self heal in anything outside the endgame where the enemies have massive deffence), i would more consider it a combo effect with blood protection or saturation 

 

They heal less than classes like Paladin. To balance it out, the heal from that skill could not crit. But it's still not necessary imo. 

 

22 minutes ago, Hourai said:

If you could cycle it im sure it'd be a lot better already

 

If we were able to cycle it with still the HP drain being present we would die in a matter of 1 minute. The HP cost, unless further buffs are applied, is not justified whatsoever.

 

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13 minutes ago, Higgings said:

If we were able to cycle it with still the HP drain being present we would die in a matter of 1 minute. The HP cost, unless further buffs are applied, is not justified whatsoever.

 

If one dies with 25% Lifesteal given plus whatever else they have on their kit, there's bigger issues than the life drain itself, let's be real.

And im not saying it's justified, im all pro for buffs, just the whole "we're dying" mentality is silly to me and mind you, I played necro during times of no lifesteal at all so I know how it is to be low hp from skills, nowadays its just a lot easier to stay full

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29 minutes ago, Hourai said:

If one dies with 25% Lifesteal given plus whatever else they have on their kit, there's bigger issues than the life drain itself, let's be real.

 

Oh, you meant then Cycling this + all of the buffs this skill would give. I admit this would be kinda broken. I wouldn't mind giving it more cooldown, if these buffs were also added

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death knight needs some love, this has gone on long enough....

i, myself got tired of creating post asking about improving death knight

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Otherwise, here some suggestions for brand new skills:

 

- Defiled Honour: Active, (5/6/6/8) Energy consumption every 2 seconds. Cooldown: 120 Seconds.

Effect: Every 8 seconds, Death Knight restores a percentage of Health depending on the ammount of Magic Damage (+70/90/110/130%). Furthermore, if his Health Points are reduced to (30/40/50/60%) of its maximum value, Death Knight receives 1 Honour Counter beneath his HUD every 7 seconds. Each Honour Counter gives Death Knight +1% Block, +1,5% Parry and +1% Life Steal. Shoul Death Knight reach 10 Honour Counters, Death Knight restores his HPs completely and the Skills automatically turns off. Reaching a percentage of HPs superior to the minimum allowed to trigger the secondary effect of this skill shall delete every Honour Counter so far obtained. 

 

Reason and Comments: The logic stays the same: Magic Damage shall be used as a mean to enhance our endurance and not to deal damage; that's not our job. Since we are on the first line, it will be easy to trigger its secondary effect, but then it will be the (currently unexistant) ability of the tank to survive long enough to eventually trigger the skill. Furthermore, since gaining health from any source shall result in the depletion of every Honour Point so far obtained, this skill can't stack with other skills like Secret Reserves. This last one, moreover, requires a specific build and several points spent on it, and in scenarios like PvP, where you have to place wisely your points, you can't have both the survivability and the stun effect from other skills. This skill gives another reason for Saturation to kill Death Knight (in case the buff on Saturation itself shall not be heard, that's at least a brand new skill to work on. I am aware that making both Saturation and This skill stack, will result in Death Knight being extremely tanky. On the other hand, we waited for 2 years for a decent tanky skill :smoke:

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i read somewhere, someone suggesting that secret reserve become a passive that trigger every time death knight block an attack and heal them based on their hp regen, like warden skill but with hp regen instead of health and idk i kinda like it, ofc it would need its numbers adjusted

Edited by 0gull
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17 minutes ago, 0gull said:

i read somewhere, someone suggesting that secret reserve become a passive that trigger every time death knight block an attack and heal them based on their hp regen, like warden skill but with hp regen instead of health and idk i kinda like it, ofc it would need its numbers adjusted

 

Hmm... another meta. Meh, it might not be enough though

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On 12/12/2020 at 8:56 AM, Higgings said:

Hello and welcome to my topic!

 

It's quite a lot I've been thinking about whether making this topic or not, but since some new experts are going to be released, my final hope is that these suggestions are going to be at least reviewed by our beloved admins.

 

Since quite a bit now we have seen the game getting newer and newer updates, filled with hard and challenging battles which needed the player's attention and the guild's strategy to achieve the victory. Every time classes prepared properly for these events, and so did my own class: Death Knight. What I am feeling though is that, if every single update, every class tried something new (in terms of skill build or at last even items) my own class had nothing new to try, since there was not and there still is not anything new and worth to try; if every other tank had the possibility to rely on a new skill, it's for 2 years that my own class relies on the same build. Nothing new to try, nothing that gives us an actual chance to test new builds. The obstinate tendency to give this class magic damage skills which deal enemies (eventually) even good ammount of damage, forgetting that we are tanks, and such source of power should be used to make us live longer, and not to steal another class' job. The apparently unreasonable choice to give this class a unique meta - Life Steal -- but no skills or items that would stack with this statistic more than any other class would do, not to count that to use such skill it's necessary to sacrifice a tremendous ammount of HPs for a tank. Since recently I was asked what kind of buff I would give this class, I'm here then to suggest something that might change the current situation of this, in my opinion, neglected class. 

 

- First of all, Saturation. This skill gives Life Steal for a high price. Now, options are 2: you either remove this cost, as it's illogic to pay 10% of HPs whereas classes like Bladedancers can walk with 40% of basic damage augmentation for free; or you give this skill an actual justification for this secondary price. Since you won't remove this secondary price, here's my idea

 

Effect: Death Knight receives a buff in life steal (10/15/20/25) for (8/13/18/25) seconds. Depending on the weapon he carries: 1h weapon + shield - Additionally Increases the Block parameter by (3/5/7/10%) and Parry parameter by  (3/5/7/10%) - 2h weapon - Increases the physical and magical damage by (6/9/12/15%) and the penetration parameter by (2/5/8/12%) 

 

Reason and Comments: This is one of the tanks which have got no defensive statistic augmentation skills - like litterally 0. All I'm doing is giving an actual reason to pay these 10% hps, which for a PvE tank, it's like 800+ hps. On PvP scenario there still are several skills that deserve to be leveled more than this one, so we should put some sort of attention when building our character in PvP

 

- Second, Knight's Curse: I'll never get why Death Knights needed such a skill instead of a defensive one, but since it's too late, let's give it a sort of reason for a tank to have this skill.

 

Effect: [same effect of the current skill but with one addition] If the Death Knight stands on the fire ground his own skill generated, his Health Point are restored by (10/20/30/40%) depending on the Death Knight's magic damage and the skill's level.

 

Reason and Comments: since it's a skill that has been recently nerfed, its role in the game is unexistant, as enemies (who could've ever said it?) have got no problems on walking away from the 3x3 flaming area generated by the skill itself. Before flames could even trigger, it's necessary to debuff the enemy with such skill (as a debuff, it can be resisted). Maxing it out would make the initial debuff last 8 seconds and that means Opponent Players have got more than enough time to eventually cure themselves from this debuff. I repeat: we are tanks, and there's no reason whatsoever to use this skill only to deal damage, since classes like warlocks or shamans are far better than us in this sense

 

- Third, Blood Protection, one of the most popular skills this class has got (and the 2nd of all of our skills that we can call "defensive"...). Should the aforementioned changes be accepted, here's my idea for this skill.

 

Effect: Passive: Only if MAX HPs < (30/45/55/70%). Every time the Death Knight receives damage (DoT excluded), with a chance of X where X is the ammount of Life Steal, the Death Knight receives one Blood Point (under his HUD). The Death Knight shall see the damage reduced by 3% for every Blood Point obtained, Once the Death Knight reaches 5 Blood Points, he will receive the Blood Protection buff in exchange of all of his Blood Points, which will last for (5/10/15/20) seconds. During that time, all of the debuffs this class receives shall last for -X% shorter where X is the ammount of Life Steal this class has got, and all of the buffs he has got shall last for +X% more where X is the anmount of Life Steal this class has got. The buff can be dispelled and as soon as the DK reaches a higher percentage of HPs, all of the Blood Points so far acquired shall go to 0 and the Blood Protection buff shall disappear. 

 

Reasons and Comments: It is a buff that shall trigger only if this class suffers too much damage. It shall help it to avoid being a dummy, as this class heavily lacks of mobility as well (on the contrary of 3 of the 5 colleagues, which can teleport/move faster/rush to an enemy immediatly). Tanks are supposed to initiate fights, and since the only way we can do that is to pull from 7 yards some classes  (some of which actually like being pulled - Paladins, Druids, Mages... ) with the hope that the skill doesn't get resisted, this skill can be considered as a Plan B. Besides, the meta of this class is Life Steal so I'm just giving another reason for that 10% of HPs from Saturation to be paid. 

 

Further Considerations: Exhalation of Darkness. We arrived to a situation where seekers deal 11k dmg with their basic hits, but we consider a sacrilege to return the critical hit to this skill. I believe it's time for a change. Moreover, let Terrible Relic of Control be placed in this skill... Most (if not all) of the other classes have got this relic on their control skills, except Death Knights. I see no reason for this situation to be kept on.

 

For now, that's all. I'm here to read your opinions and feedbacks. All I'm asking is to keep in mind the current situation this class is running through, and to write your comments with points and means so that a pleasant conversation could be started. I thank you all in advance!

 

:uhuh:

 

 

 

Hopefully your ideas will reach the developers, and we will see DK receive some buffs soon enough.

 

It really is sad that a class with so much potential, and such a great class fantasy, would just be left on the side because every other tank can do its job , but better.

 

:cry1:

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On 12/13/2020 at 3:30 PM, Zahard said:

 

Hopefully your ideas will reach the developers, and we will see DK receive some buffs soon enough.

 

It really is sad that a class with so much potential, and such a great class fantasy, would just be left on the side because every other tank can do its job , but better.

 

:cry1:

 

I'm mainly hoping they see the rework suggested on Saturation. But hey, they asked how Dks could be tanky. I'm writing my point of view.

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24 minutes ago, Higgings said:

 

Hmm... another meta. Meh, it might not be enough though

it wont be enough, but if it could offer another play style for dks then i am all in for it

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3 minutes ago, 0gull said:

it wont be enough, but if it could offer another play style for dks then i am all in for it

 

I see your point. Fair enough.

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