The mobility Issue! PLEASE READ!!!!!!!

[Vinagre 72]

5 minutes ago, Higgings said:

 

This is exactly what I was talking about when I spoke of copying stuff from other sides. I'll tell you something: the other users are at least trying to cope and to give suggestions to "clean the mess of the immobility up", but if you pretend to take everything good the class on the other side has got or remove it for the sake of what you call "Balance", then I can tell for certain that these suggestions won't be taken into account. If you want to play a seeker, it's enough for you to create one. 

If you speak of removing or doing a copy from something, how come the seeker can be invisible if the rogues came first? that's a copy also, but he gets inv+speed+stun, rogues get inv+dmg, something may be missing!

[Mario jorge 0]

The mobility problem could be solved with a buff on the vampire's dodge ability, and with the exploratory class he gets two buffs on the inspiration ability, so he can get two buffs on the vampire dodge that would be the evasion that already exists and with the new mobility buff.

 

Edited August 19, 2020 by Higgings
Please, use normal sized letters

[Higgings 1824]

Just now, Vinagre said:

If you speak of removing or doing a copy from something, how come the seeker can be invisible if the rogues came first? that's a copy also, but he gets inv+speed+stun, rogues get inv+dmg, something may be missing!

 

He hasn't got a damage boost. And back then he hadn't even got the stun chance. Seekers haven't got defensive skills aside a Shield that easily breaks. Seekers can't turn invisible once they attack, but they are allowed to, only if they use an expert skill (40k for a first use skill sounds like a horrible way to make the life harder to me)

 

Seekers have to cope with their tremendous energy expense problem: it's enough to somehow get skills that burns mana quickly to make it close to useless, not to count skills that reduce the Damage and the Attack Speed

 

I could carry on for hours dude. None of these skills have been copied if not the invisibility; that I recognize it was a concept stolen from the rogue, but the other stuff he has got, those are kinda original. Taking inspiration and copying something are two different things. Read the suggestions given so far and you'll eventually realize that half of the ideas given (if not all of them) are just a way to add sentinel's abilities to mcs, who would make those skills unnecessarily broken. 

 

P.S: for those who wonder about that, my main class is a dk. No elves aside a lv14 bd I use to chat every now and then. 

 

Little clarification: he hasn't got a dmg boost through the use of Invisibility *

[Vinagre 72]

2 minutes ago, Higgings said:

 

He hasn't got a damage boost. And back then he hadn't even got the stun chance. Seekers haven't got defensive skills aside a Shield that easily breaks. Seekers can't turn invisible once they attack, but they are allowed to, only if they use an expert skill (40k for a first use skill sounds like a horrible way to make the life harder to me)

 

Seekers have to cope with their tremendous energy expense problem: it's enough to somehow get skills that burns mana quickly to make it close to useless, not to count skills that reduce the Damage and the Attack Speed

 

I could carry on for hours dude. None of these skills have been copied if not the invisibility; that I recognize it was a concept stolen from the rogue, but the other stuff he has got, those are kinda original. Taking inspiration and copying something are two different things. Read the suggestions given so far and you'll eventually realize that half of the ideas given (if not all of them) are just a way to add sentinel's abilities to mcs, who would make those skills unnecessarily broken. 

 

P.S: for those who wonder about that, my main class is a dk. No elves aside a lv14 bd I use to chat every now and then. 

Amazing feedback, that's why i'm here, we need to find a solution, the problem is there, but how to solve it? xD

[Jcbref 610]

More expert skills would allow more diverse builds because you couldnt get all of them to fit in skillbar and could only level 3 expert skills to max level

[HarryBr 26]

3 hours ago, Vinagre said:

Hunter
1- Retrabalhe a habilidade de agilidade do caçador que quando fora de combate ganha um pequeno aumento na velocidade de movimento.
ou

2-Retrabalhe a marca do caçador que quando estiver ligada você ganha um pequeno aumento de velocidade de movimento.

ou 

3-Retrabalhe a bênção da habilidade de montanha que aumentaria a velocidade de movimento por um período.

support, in fact a good idea would be to add a passive effect to one of those skills

[HarryBr 26]

36 minutos atrás, Jcbreff disse:

Mais habilidades de especialista permitiriam builds mais diversificados porque você não exclui fazer com que todas elas se encaixassem na barra de habilidades e só poderia nível 3 habilidades de especialista para o nível máximo

after playing several rpgs and other games outside the genre, I noticed that in many of them some classes using sword and bows had some mobility ability, so it can be said that the rogue and the hunter would be great candidates to receive new skills or readjustments in in my opinion hunter should have already received a passive skill so there may be a chance to add it or rework any existing skill!

[Sigma 363]

the concept of balance that some know is very abstract.

[Jobel Pereira 0]

.

Edited September 6, 2022 by Jobel Pereira

[Renascido 3]

I'm here to reach common sense, I don't want to copy any class, because there would be no sense in 2 factions, but there are very similar classes, as mentioned in the example between seeker and rogue, I don't see a total disadvantage between them, I see functions:

-the seeker has very high damage skills, penetration, critical atack speed, auto attack and critical damage, despite consuming mana, the slot that the player uses to place a regen mana crystal, which would be used to place penetration makes no difference none, as he already has the ability to penetrate.

-the rogue has defensive skills like Dodging, kicking and Absolute reflexes, which despite being good skills, we have to count on luck to dodge

-as well as the rogue does not have this high damage, and it is not valid to quote invisibility, as it is only 1 hit, and you can no longer be invisible if you have more than 1 enemy attacking you, the seeker cannot dodge like one rogue, as he has no dodging skills.

-the seeker's shield breaks easily, but gives him an absurd damage adding to the other skills, that he has to worry about activating only once and the rest is basically auto attack
 

-the seeker did not have a stun, as well as the rogue, only similar skills Gouge and Net, similar not equal, because the Net can be played at 2 yards, thus creating a greater safety margin.

-I don't see a disadvantage in relation to the values of expert skills, the value is the same for everyone, and in the same way that the seeker needs to buy some, the rogue also needs it, when I compare the two classes I place both as if they were Full, max level, same level of equipment etc ...

-the only imbalance I see between these two classes is mobility, and as you mentioned, it is not a copy of the rogue, but it was inspired, just as the charmer is not a copy of the wizard, but the ability to see invisible has been added to that there was balance.

-we don't want a copy but a balance, no mc class can get quickly from one point to another as a seeker, it has an exclusive ability just like the rogue had that was invisibility.

-since the seeker was inspired by the rogue, why take the exclusivity of one to put in another? I do not cite other classes as an example, because there would be another disadvantage, invisibility, because gaining move speed is one thing, being invisible and gaining move speed is another, it is a mechanism that can change a whole war in a matter of seconds.
 

-as all classes have their characteristics to create the builds, like a bd for example, it can tank, or cause a lot of damage, a barbarian can tank, or cause a lot of damage, but for that he needs to remove points of some ability so that the function is well done, in which case the same thing would work in the rogue, I for example would have to remove points from the stun if I had the option of move speed in invisibility, in my view I would be less effective in arenas or PvP to stay more effective in GvGs territory wars etc ... just like the seeker would also have to remove points from a skill, an example the shield that absorbs an amount of damage and increases its strength, thus losing dps, to gain mobility.

 

Edited August 19, 2020 by Higgings
Please, use normal sized letters

[TheCaster 361]

Completely agree with this topic and I feel the concerns are valid and needs to be addressed at the earliest. The difference is abundantly clear in mermen GvGs and group battles where gathering and getting from one area to another fast matters a lot. 

BD is an extremely strong class with crowd control(Rush) , so is mage(Shattered stones) , so is paladin(Fetters) . Them getting back to areas from camp like invasion of chaos, Mermen trials regathering, Territory battle attacks makes a huge difference; Gives the rest of the classes time to catch up as well as an advantage in using guild skills. 

As for suggestions to rectify the situation:

 

@ Vlec had posted a modification of warlock stone body. I propose to add an increased movement speed to be added to this skill. Maybe by (25 - 35 - 45 - 55%) when the lock is in specter mode. 

 

 

[Speedom 281]

Bring back movement speed relic

[Nehantist 7]

Add a new premium item in the miracle coin shop; potion/scroll that increases character movement speed for few minutes. 😉

[Speedom 281]

1 minute ago, Nehantist said:

Add a new premium item in the miracle coin shop; potion/scroll that increases character movement speed for few minutes. 😉

Agree 100%. No need to make changes. Castle pot have jump. That add skill pots to the shop

[Vinagre 72]

8 hours ago, Renascido said:

I'm here to reach common sense, I don't want to copy any class, because there would be no sense in 2 factions, but there are very similar classes, as mentioned in the example between seeker and rogue, I don't see a total disadvantage between them, I see functions:

-the seeker has very high damage skills, penetration, critical atack speed, auto attack and critical damage, despite consuming mana, the slot that the player uses to place a regen mana crystal, which would be used to place penetration makes no difference none, as he already has the ability to penetrate.

-the rogue has defensive skills like Dodging, kicking and Absolute reflexes, which despite being good skills, we have to count on luck to dodge

-as well as the rogue does not have this high damage, and it is not valid to quote invisibility, as it is only 1 hit, and you can no longer be invisible if you have more than 1 enemy attacking you, the seeker cannot dodge like one rogue, as he has no dodging skills.

-the seeker's shield breaks easily, but gives him an absurd damage adding to the other skills, that he has to worry about activating only once and the rest is basically auto attack
 

-the seeker did not have a stun, as well as the rogue, only similar skills Gouge and Net, similar not equal, because the Net can be played at 2 yards, thus creating a greater safety margin.

-I don't see a disadvantage in relation to the values of expert skills, the value is the same for everyone, and in the same way that the seeker needs to buy some, the rogue also needs it, when I compare the two classes I place both as if they were Full, max level, same level of equipment etc ...

-the only imbalance I see between these two classes is mobility, and as you mentioned, it is not a copy of the rogue, but it was inspired, just as the charmer is not a copy of the wizard, but the ability to see invisible has been added to that there was balance.

-we don't want a copy but a balance, no mc class can get quickly from one point to another as a seeker, it has an exclusive ability just like the rogue had that was invisibility.

-since the seeker was inspired by the rogue, why take the exclusivity of one to put in another? I do not cite other classes as an example, because there would be another disadvantage, invisibility, because gaining move speed is one thing, being invisible and gaining move speed is another, it is a mechanism that can change a whole war in a matter of seconds.
 

-as all classes have their characteristics to create the builds, like a bd for example, it can tank, or cause a lot of damage, a barbarian can tank, or cause a lot of damage, but for that he needs to remove points of some ability so that the function is well done, in which case the same thing would work in the rogue, I for example would have to remove points from the stun if I had the option of move speed in invisibility, in my view I would be less effective in arenas or PvP to stay more effective in GvGs territory wars etc ... just like the seeker would also have to remove points from a skill, an example the shield that absorbs an amount of damage and increases its strength, thus losing dps, to gain mobility.

 

Wow amazing

[HarryBr 26]

3 horas atrás, Nehantist disse:

Adicione um novo item premium na loja de moedas milagrosas; poção / pergaminho que aumenta a velocidade de movimento do personagem por alguns minutos. 😉 

5 horas atrás, Speedom disse:

Traga de volta a relíquia da velocidade de movimento

 

it would only further increase the mobility of an explorer😒

[Vinagre 72]

Wish devs could take a look at this right now, since they are working with class updates now!

Edited August 19, 2020 by Vinagre

[Jcbref 610]

17 minutes ago, Vinagre said:

Wish devs could take a look at this right now, since they are working with class updates now!

they very well might see this but might aswell decide that it is not the problem right now

[Vinagre 72]

1 hour ago, Jcbreff said:

they very well might see this but might aswell decide that it is not the problem right now

we all wish, this is one of the reasons there is a imbalance in gvgs and wars...

[Vinagre 72]

yea cant solve with that, need some equal thing in the class mechanics!!

[King Death 59]

 

16 hours ago, Higgings said:

This is exactly what I was talking about when I spoke of copying stuff from other sides. I'll tell you something: the other users are at least trying to cope and to give suggestions to "clean the mess of the immobility up", but if you pretend to take everything good the class on the other side has got or remove it for the sake of what you call "Balance", then I can tell for certain that these suggestions won't be taken into account. If you want to play a seeker, it's enough for you to create one. 

 

I think the best way to solve this would be to require targets to use the skill, as well as legion.

[snorlax 658]

Hello there.

For sure, there is some advantage for one alliance due to listed causes.

We'll update relevant entities to make gameplay more even/fair. However, those changes are not for 8.4.2 update for some reasons.

[Vinagre 72]

1 minute ago, snorlax said:

Hello there.

For sure, there is some advantage for one alliance due to listed causes.

We'll update relevant entities to make gameplay more even/fair. However, those changes are not for 8.4.2 update for some reasons.

ok thanks for the feedback!

[Mortalw 0]

when a seeker manages to arrive + faster than 1 rogue on a gvg boss it becomes unfair, because I don't see an exclusive mechanic in the legion. 

[Gladiator 1145]

The only way to balance this issue, is to balance the events. Not the classes. Legions also have more ranged control skills than Sentinels for example, that makes up for the mobility advantage in combat. But yeah in events where movement is important, it should be fixed. disabling skill usage like we saw in Mermen Trials is a good step in that direction.

[Winter 39]

25 minutes ago, Gladiator said:

The only way to balance this issue, is to balance the events. Not the classes. Legions also have more ranged control skills than Sentinels for example, that makes up for the mobility advantage in combat. But yeah in events where movement is important, it should be fixed. disabling skill usage like we saw in Mermen Trials is a good step in that direction.

There is your solution that doesn't create new balancing issues since this is all about GVG rite?

[Khrone 648]

46 minutes ago, King Death said:

 

 

I think the best way to solve this would be to require targets to use the skill, as well as legion.

What about Seeker's skill?

[Nimue 0]

I believe that the Warlock class should have a mobility similar to that of the wizard, rework the skill Stone Body in which he teleported to an astral place as if he had become an invincible spirit that had the same mechanical stone as where you could disable this mode. I believe there would be more usefulness than a huge stone.  LOL

[Meiobobo 10]

23 hours ago, Higgings said:

In order to maintain this topic on this section, do you have any practical Idea that could eventually help sorting this "problem" out? 

I bet they don't. This became basically a guild topic, once most of these guys up there are from the same guild. Back to the topic, depending on how this rework on legion skills to get their so wished mobility, we should bring to the table taking off or "nerfing" their area stuns(warlock, shaman), area silence(warlock or the dk one) and area fear(necro and hunter).Im not even talking about the slowering effect of the necro rain or area dmg of warlock. I don't know what you guys plan on this but I'd like to remember once the legion fit its stuns and skeletons on the set, sentinels do have a big problem. 

Edited August 19, 2020 by Meiobobo
Typing mistake

[Higgings 1824]

18 minutes ago, Meiobobo said:

I bet they don't. This became basically a guild topic, once most of these guys up there are from the same guild. Back to the topic, depending on how this rework on legion skills to get their so wished mobility, we should bring to the table taking off or "nerfing" their area stuns(warlock, shaman), area silence(warlock or the dk one) and area fear(necro and hunter).Im not even talking about the lowering effect of the necro rain or area dmg of warlock. I don't know what you guys plan on this but I'd like to remember once the legion fit its stuns and skeletons on the set, sentinels do have a big problem. 

 

If they want something more, for the sake of balancement there must also be a nerfing of such skills. I agree with this

[Vlec 40]

1 hour ago, Nimue said:

 

12 minutes ago, Higgings said:

 

Se eles querem algo mais, por uma questão de equilíbrio, também deve haver uma perda de tais habilidades. Eu concordo com isto

 

I made a topic a few weeks ago about a suggestion to change the oil body, which fits exactly what is being commented on. In my opinion it would help the warlock a lot, because there are a lot of problems in the petreo when it activates, depending on the occasion, and that in my opinion adding a mobility in the petro body would help the warlock in several aspects, including pvp, pve and gvg, and it would not be something absurd because it would only add mobility and for a short period of time Adms was very sad for not even commenting, in an idea that would help the warlock class in times of great difficulties and in various requirements.

 

Edited August 19, 2020 by Higgings
Please, use normal sized letters

[Higgings 1824]

2 minutes ago, Vlec said:

I made a topic a few weeks ago about a suggestion to change the oil body, which fits exactly what is being commented on. In my opinion it would help the warlock a lot, because there are a lot of problems in the petreo when it activates, depending on the occasion, and that in my opinion adding a mobility in the petro body would help the warlock in several aspects, including pvp, pve and gvg, and it would not be something absurd because it would only add mobility and for a short period of time Adms was very sad for not even commenting, in an idea that would help the warlock class in times of great difficulties and in various requirements.

 

 

This is still something more and pretty unjustified that a skill like that one would get. No pain, no gain. You won't balance these classes by adding buffs out of thin air because, why not.

[Vlec 40]

30 minutes ago, Higgings said:

 

This is still something more and pretty unjustified that a skill like that one would get. No pain, no gain. You won't balance these classes by adding buffs out of thin air because, why not.

Did you even see the topic?

 

Edited August 19, 2020 by Higgings
Please, use normal sized letters - you were asked this more than once

[Vinagre 72]

43 minutes ago, Higgings said:

 

If they want something more, for the sake of balancement there must also be a nerfing of such skills. I agree with this

So be it, just make equal options in terms of teamwork.

 

1 hour ago, Meiobobo said:

I bet they don't. This became basically a guild topic, once most of these guys up there are from the same guild. Back to the topic, depending on how this rework on legion skills to get their so wished mobility, we should bring to the table taking off or "nerfing" their area stuns(warlock, shaman), area silence(warlock or the dk one) and area fear(necro and hunter).Im not even talking about the slowering effect of the necro rain or area dmg of warlock. I don't know what you guys plan on this but I'd like to remember once the legion fit its stuns and skeletons on the set, sentinels do have a big problem. 

 

i know you are Meiobobo, but can you at last read before betting we don't suggest how to fix it? If you think Legion got many OP mechanics feel free to speak up in the forum, just please keep into the topic, if u think there is no mobility issue ok just say it straight!

[Higgings 1824]

27 minutes ago, Vlec said:

Did you even see the topic?

 

Do I really have to answer this...? 

[Vlec 40]

37 minutes ago, Higgings said:

 

Do I really have to answer this...? 

I am sorry for the size of the writing because my translator leaves it somehow, I will look for something to fix it.

 

If you don't want to answer all right, I'm sorry again for wasting your time.

 

Edited August 19, 2020 by Higgings

[Higgings 1824]

32 minutes ago, Vlec said:

If you don't want to answer all right, I'm sorry again for wasting your time.

 

Since you're really taking this seriously, I can tell you that above you've seen more than enough comments of mine, which clearly state that I might have read everything you guys have written so far. 

All I've seen so far is adding abilities taken from the sentinel side and put into Legion's skills in a way almost like it is due for the sake of Balancement: I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but it doesn't work this way. If all you've got to offer is taking one skill and add a teleportation/Movement/Speed ability just because the other class on the other faction has got that, then I can confirm you all that these suggestions (as stated above) will not be taken in consideration. The reason is pretty clear: they don't suit that kind of class, and they would simply break the inner balance of the class itself. Devs are looking for suggestions and not how to steal other classes' abilities; don't you think they can pretty much do that on their own? Or you perhaps think that they don't know how to take a skill and give it to someone else so they need a member of the forum to tell them everything? 

 

Reading your comments is part of my job; I don't write things to make people upset or annoyed, rather I try to look for a conversation, an exchange of points of view maybe, but it is like reading one person saying every time the same thing. If you accept a criticism (no offenses whatsoever), you're lacking of creativity: this is a fantasy RPG, the only limit you've got to create skills is your Imagination. You can read examples of what I'm talking about in the section "Warlock" of the Class Discussion, where you can see how I'm pretty impressed of the ideas a guy is sharing, and all of them (at least the 95% of them) are original, funny, suitable for a class such as Warlock. I hereby invite you to do the same, if it helps to break the "monotony" of the topic.

 

44 minutes ago, Vlec said:

I am sorry for the size of the writing because my translator leaves it somehow, I will look for something to fix it.

 

That's not a big deal. When you use your translator and paste the translation here, try to cut the whole text translated and then copy it again on the box. Otherwise, you can still change the size through the panel on the top of the replying Box. 

[Vlec 40]

1 hour ago, Higgings said:

 

 

Quote

Ler seus comentários faz parte do meu trabalho; Não escrevo coisas que incomodem ou aborrecem as pessoas, antes procuro buscar uma conversa, uma troca de pontos de vista talvez, mas é como ler uma pessoa dizendo sempre a mesma coisa. Se você aceita uma crítica (sem ofensas), está faltando criatividade: este é um RPG de fantasia, o único limite que você tem para criar habilidades é a sua imaginação. Você pode ler exemplos do que estou falando na seção "Bruxo" da discussão em classe, onde você pode ver como estou muito impressionado com as idéias que um cara está compartilhando, e todas elas (pelo menos 95% deles) são originais, engraçados, adequados para uma classe como Warlock. Venho por este meio convidá-lo a fazer o mesmo, se isso ajudar a quebrar a "monotonia" do tema

I understand your job of commenting and getting something positive out of a good conversation between two or more people with a good idea. But as I stated above, my idea of the skill is something 100% creative, imaginative and thoughtful, a suggestion to remove problems that I see using the skill, but at no time stealing from another class, I even used isolating and editing to make it more understandable for visitors, onlookers and searchers of ideas. It is not necessary for me to accept the invitation because I know the topic “Wizard” and I visit frequently to share and suggestions about the class I love to play, I believe that my comments are departing from the context of this topic, I'm 'sorry to everyone who is present on that

 

Quote

 

That's not a big deal. When you use your translator and paste the translation here, try to cut the whole text translated and then copy it again on the box. Otherwise, you can still change the size through the panel on the top of the replying Box. 

About the text thanks for the information is that by using an old cell phone enough, I don't have many functions to keep the various windows open without the cell closing any so as not to overload my device's RAM memory

Edited August 19, 2020 by Vlec

[Whitex 9]

As @Gladiator already pointed out, I also think the issues to be solved are more in the macro instead of micro.

I think this is more complex than it seems to be.

A hunter walking faster as a seeker? NO WAY! Imagine a hunter walking faster as Seeker, both got the same place at same time, who has distance attack advantage? who has stun advantage?

A warlock jumping as a mage? Almost the same example above, mages stun for less time than a warlock, mage has antistun skill, warlock jumps same place same time with mage who has advantage? 

I can keep writing here all day, it's impossible to balance mobility giving similar skills to Legion because the classes on the two sides aren't similar.

They are not opposed to each other. They are unique.

The best way to give Legion mobility is creating different enviroment which mobility is something that can be countered in some way.

Edited August 20, 2020 by Whitex

[Davidgank 4]

On 8/18/2020 at 7:04 PM, Higgings said:

 

This is exactly what I was talking about when I spoke of copying stuff from other sides. I'll tell you something: the other users are at least trying to cope and to give suggestions to "clean the mess of the immobility up", but if you pretend to take everything good the class on the other side has got or remove it for the sake of what you call "Balance", then I can tell for certain that these suggestions won't be taken into account. If you want to play a seeker, it's enough for you to create one. 

I'm not going to create a seeker because I already invested a lot in my current class, so I stopped playing ... you value sentinels more than the legion ... I don't even know why you created dk, maybe you are playing the wrong way