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Unpopular Opinion: Ability to self-cast Sacred Shield


Gladiator
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If you're unhappy about your class, then make a suggestion not counter-suggestions to other classes.

If your Deathknight isn't tankier than an equally geared Paladin, then I don't know what to tell you man, DK has permanent damage reduction and a passive that basically makes enemies have to kill the DK twice. And I don't think DK is the most OP class in the game, I would agree to a buff as they are kinda useless in PvP nowadays (still tankier in solo situations). I think if you played anything other than DK, then you'd understand how weak Paladin is without the shield. All we have remaining is gear which everyone else has and some heals that would be counter-productive the more you increase it. (For example going 2 handed and losing the chance to block 1.5k hits and shield strike stuns and heals for extra 1-2k heal)

And we are talking about Paladins without the Sacred Shield here, since the only change we're talking about is Paladin being alone.

 

1 hour ago, Higgings said:

You are the one who is proposing a buff and also a Paladin as main, it's perfectly normal that you don't see this skill strong

I never said it's not strong, in fact I did say it is strong and for good reason. And I emphasized it is necessary for Paladin's existence and relevance in the game with increased control resistance and reduced AoE control for the Paladin (original post).

 

And I don't understand how you see this as a buff. I can already cast 2 of these ''op'' shields by simply using a minion. I'm asking to be able to cast 1 when I'm alone so that the skill points aren't totally wasted or that I don't have to keep a stock of useless minions just for a shield dummy. It's mostly for PvE which is also mostly solo-content, it won't affect 90% of the other PvP content (wars and arena). It's not a buff, unless you're worried about PvP cave 1v1 fights, which is not really a good reason to deny the change.

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3 minutes ago, Gladiator said:

If you're unhappy about your class, then make a suggestion not counter-suggestions to other classes.

If your Deathknight isn't tankier than an equally geared Paladin, then I don't know what to tell you man, DK has permanent damage reduction and a passive that basically makes enemies have to kill the DK twice. And I don't think DK is the most OP class in the game, I would agree to a buff as they are kinda useless in PvP nowadays (still tankier in solo situations).

In my opinion, both DK and Pala need a rework on the skills to be tankier, not a buff.

 

If they are tankers they should be able to do the job like the other tankers. I never really seen a paladin tanking something, unless it is a very high amped char or they have no other option.

 

The sacred shield is alright, and I believe it should be self-casted on the paladin, but 100% of it's own HP is way too much.

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  • Higgings locked and unlocked this topic
30 minutes ago, Gladiator said:

If you're unhappy about your class, then make a suggestion not counter-suggestions to other classes.

 

I don't think to be using my class to justify my arguments tbh. To be even fair, I believe to have brought examples of many classes (as I always do: I try to make up practical scenarios so that people might get better my point) and the Death Knight was brought when I heard that Pala is one of the weakest tanks... I beg for your coherence here to say that this is a completely biased sentence. But that's another thing: not the right place to talk about comparisons of tanks and such. 

 

I do have a Shaman as well, not PvP though, so I can't really talk about this. I have also got a lv14 sham PvP, but that's not really the case. 

 

30 minutes ago, Gladiator said:

And I don't understand how you see this as a buff. I can already cast 2 of these ''op'' shields by simply using a minion

 

Because in arena you can't use a minion, therefore my only chance to kill a paladin is killing his mates while I mute/stun him. If I have to kill a paladin with 8k hps, followed by a shield precedently casted, his skill which increases its hps (Harad Prayer? Beg you pardon, I can't remember precisely the name) his heal and now again another 8k hp shield to break because (supposedly) the pala can cast the shield on himself - don't you believe that killing a 25k ~ hp tank with stuns and damage dealt-increasing skills is quite harder to beat than a DK who shall be killed twice IF I sacrifice arena rings, block on shield and HPs on gears for the sake of HP regen and if I make it completely useless in PvE? 

 

30 minutes ago, Gladiator said:

you're unhappy about your class, then make a suggestion

 

It's like 2 years now that I'm asking everywhere they speak of skills to adjust our meta skill... people grow tired and simply cope with something else. If I can efficiently tank everything that other tanks manage to tank with some good levelled skill, it is thanks to the gear build and relic build - not certainly because my skills allow me to. 

 

P.s. my humble apologies, I fat fingered to the lock button. Everything is sorted out now

 

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You only referring to pvp, that's why you're so against. :haha:

This is a generally speaking for both pve and pvp. I'm mainly referring to new paladin players. Especially, f2p players. 

What a drag…

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5 minutes ago, Speedom said:

You only referring to pvp, that's why you're so against. :haha:

This is a generally speaking for both pve and pvp. I'm mainly referring to new paladin players. Especially, f2p players. 

What a drag…

 

43 minutes ago, Gladiator said:

And I don't understand how you see this as a buff. I can already cast 2 of these ''op'' shields by simply using a minion

 

:piggy: your FTP problem for new players has been just sorted out. Rejoice! 

And that's in PvE

 

 

And for your information, if you want to buff a skill just considering one aspect of the entire game, you will come up with biased arguments. 

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1 minute ago, Higgings said:

 

 

:piggy: your FTP problem for new players has been just sorted out. Rejoice! 

And that's in PvE

If it did, them newbies will be able to cast the shield on themselves. Nice try. Try again.:teehee-crazy-rabbit-emoticon:

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6 minutes ago, Speedom said:

If it did, them newbies will be able to cast the shield on themselves. Nice try. Try again.:teehee-crazy-rabbit-emoticon:

 

They can. Get a minion. Simple. 

 

11 minutes ago, Speedom said:

This is a generally speaking for both pve and pvp

 

And no, you are. Only you. The problem was brought into a PvP scenario, so I answer by following the logic given by the topic. On PvE the problem doesn't appear at all because on PvE being alone is a choice. If you choose to solo, you deal with it. I completed swamps several times naked when I was newbie of the game. They can pretty much do the same even without shield.

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40 minutes ago, Higgings said:

Because in arena you can't use a minion, therefore my only chance to kill a paladin is killing his mates while I mute/stun him. If I have to kill a paladin with 8k hps, followed by a shield precedently casted, his skill which increases its hps (Harad Prayer? Beg you pardon, I can't remember precisely the name) his heal and now again another 8k hp shield to break because (supposedly) the pala can cast the shield on himself - don't you believe that killing a 25k ~ hp tank with stuns and damage dealt-increasing skills is quite harder to beat than a DK who shall be killed twice IF I sacrifice arena rings, block on shield and HPs on gears for the sake of HP regen and if I make it completely useless in PvE? 

You're still missing the point and I feel like I'm repeating myself for the last couple of posts so I'll have my final say on this:

- People are already fighting and killing Paladins with their 25k HP in Arena, that will not change if Paladin can self-cast the shield when he's alone.

- Paladin IS weaker than DK when they're alone, you can't deny that, can you? Because Pala won't have the ''25K HP''. That's the only thing that was said regarding DKs being stronger.

You're basically saying: ''I disagree because Paladin will become stronger than my class and I won't be able to kill them 1v1'' (which is not even necessarily true in general, but maybe for you). Because again: Nothing else that affects you is gonna change. Unless you're worried that Paladins aren't using enough Life Scrolls in underwater content.

 

And then lemme address your hypothetical scenario:

So you kill the Paladin's mate first while controlling the Paladin, ok nice so now it's 2v1. The Paladin is alone. He casts shield on himself, assuming you don't kill him before he gets the shield back, which would be very improbable due to the lack of other defensive skills. So Paladin has a shield now what? Suddenly Paladin can win 2v1? No, It will just delay his death. No change in the outcome. The only difference is that if it ends up 1v1 as part of an arena battle, the Paladin has a CHANCE to win against some classes like tanks maybe at least which is included in the 10% that I referred to in my last post. Many other classes (Like Shaman, Charmer, Druid, BD, Ranger) will still kill the Paladin 1v1, but will just take longer which is at least more balanced than killing them in 5 seconds.


 

26 minutes ago, Higgings said:

They can. Get a minion. Simple. 

So much for F2P.. Just like saying go buy that item from the shop to use the skill (Which was the case for many skills and was removed because of bad design)

 

 

Lastly: If you're problem with the skill is that it's too strong, then that is a different topic, you're more than welcome to make a topic on that. But it's not a good reason to make the skill unusable in solo content wasting skill points, unless you want Paladins to have a stock of oblivion books or minions which is not really that F2P either, as no other classes experience that.

Edited by Gladiator
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No changes needed. If your partner dying in arena either you arent +10 or your partner sucks. Fix either one and you dont need to worry about 1v1. Sacred shield is busted af and doesnt need any kind of buff. Or the issue is between the chair and the pc, that's also a possibility.

 

Got a awarded paladin and id rather they nerf sacred shield to the ground and buff banner tbh. Way more exiting, but in the meanwhile gotta play the boring way i quess.

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3 hours ago, Gladiator said:

You're still missing the point and I feel like I'm repeating myself for the last couple of posts so I'll have my final say on this:

- People are already fighting and killing Paladins with their 25k HP in Arena, that will not change if Paladin can self-cast the shield when he's alone.

 

I might be missing a point or maybe seeing something more. For example, the thing you are (willingly?) not seeing is that it's not about killing a 25k hp Pala, but the fact that I can't counter this situation in any way, should your suggestion be heard. If the only way I had to kill a paladin in arena (and not 1vs1, where I already said - feel you here, I'm repeating myself as well - to be mainly focused on PvE; in other words, my stuns are at 1/5 so I could litterally not 1vs1 anyone, and even if I had them maxed, it's enough 1 resist of yours to destroy my stun-lock and regain momentum) was to kill his mate first, by giving you such buffs I can't do that anymore. You are not a simply supporting class, but also an AoE stunner and disabler, which means that even if 1 guy resists your skill, your whole team would back you up and kill him pronto. It's the whole reason of why CC-disabling-skill classes should lack of massive healing skills or def increasing skills (and the reason of why Chieftains will be broken even more than paladins in the future). 

 

3 hours ago, Gladiator said:

Paladin IS weaker than DK when they're alone, you can't deny that, can you? Because Pala won't have the ''25K HP''

 

No, I can't. The same way you can't deny that with that buff you will be practically immortal, and not a simple "chance" you're claiming to give this class. 

 

3 hours ago, Gladiator said:

Because again: Nothing else that affects you is gonna change. Unless you're worried that Paladins aren't using enough Life Scrolls in underwater content.

 

Dude... If you seek a comment of mine about this I might say that sentinel side uses Life Scrolls to spam them close to flags when it comes to war only, but that's another topic. I even wonder if priests do actually need the reviving skill or they would waste 40k by buying it. 

 

3 hours ago, Gladiator said:

So you kill the Paladin's mate first while controlling the Paladin, ok nice so now it's 2v1. The Paladin is alone. He casts shield on himself, assuming you don't kill him before he gets the shield back, which would be very improbable due to the lack of other defensive skills. So Paladin has a shield now what? Suddenly Paladin can win 2v1? No, It will just delay his death. No change in the outcome. The only difference is that if it ends up 1v1 as part of an arena battle, the Paladin has a CHANCE to win against some classes like tanks maybe at least which is included in the 10% that I referred to in my last post. Many other classes (Like Shaman, Charmer, Druid, BD, Ranger) will still kill the Paladin 1v1, but will just take longer which is at least more balanced than killing them in 5 seconds.

 

1st: Endurance skills are even better than defensive skills, since they allow you not only to defend yourself but to even win time by healing you up, thing that you would desperately need if you live to re-cast the shield. It's litterally enough for you to use FoJ and Call and run all around the arena to escape two players. Nonetheless, paladins have got 2 HP modifying skills, one of which can even crit. I'm not even mentioning those tele pots from castle.

2nd: assuming that my previous (very possible) scenario is true, the outcome of a paladin who recovered himself fully could actually change: if before I could win, now it will be a draw. If you call giving back tons of hps a "chance" to survive in 1vs1, then you're right - I'm missing a point and I shall need a dictionary by now.

3rd: More hps equals more skills to kill you which also equals more energy endurance needed. I'm not the best one out there, but you don't need a genius to see that maybe the 70% of classes on WS (maybe only necros and priests or certain tanks don't) use Penetration crystals instead of Energy Regen crystals on their rings. It's true, they will melt down your shield, but for how much this can keep going? should you recast a 2nd shield on yourself, those mentioned classes would most probably stop attacking you with skills in order to regain some mana. In the meanwhile, since they can't heal themselves because they have no mana left - or simply they can't heal themselves at all - you can normally even use Auto-attacks to get rid of them.

 

Having analyzed this, tell me, does the outcome change? Feel free not to answer if you desire, but you haven't given me a proper reason yet to be able to say "yes, you're right and that buff is needed".

 

3 hours ago, Gladiator said:

So much for F2P.. Just like saying go buy that item from the shop to use the skill (Which was the case for many skills and was removed because of bad design)

 

 

Lastly: If you're problem with the skill is that it's too strong, then that is a different topic, you're more than welcome to make a topic on that. But it's not a good reason to make the skill unusable in solo content wasting skill points.

 

It was not me to mention PvE on the first place and moreover, you wrote an essay that recalled us all to a conversation. In a conversation, especially if it's filled with many people, there will be the ones who agree (and should strenghten your point) and those who don't (and tell you why). My reason is that the skill is already too strong, and I don't need any other topic to write this opinion of mine, since I'm simply using my right to disagree with something. 

 

3 hours ago, Gladiator said:

unless you want Paladins to have a stock of oblivion books or minions which is not really that F2P either, as no other classes experience that

 

I honestly haven't got this part, my apologies... isn't it the same problem that every class faces when it comes to different scenarios or simply when they approach for the first time to expert skills? How is this buff even involved with such scenarios? You want a FTP user not to pay for book of Oblivions? Then you should tell them that Sacred Shield for solo content is not a good option - better going for something else. If such a useful feature was made PTW is not my fault -  I too would want the possibility to change my skills for free. 

 

Edited by Higgings
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I believe they went the right way to buff the shield to 100% of your base HP (FYI, no HP buff increases that except very few(?)) and making it only castable on ally, because let's face it, AoE cc, banner increasing dmg dealt to target AND dealing ridiculous damage if magic build, as well as (in the current era of castle pots everywhere) huge heals. 

 

If your only point of making it be self castable is "People are already killing us with "25k hp" so adding self cast isn't gonna change anything but simply delay our deaths should we be left alone" then...I don't know man, it speaks for itself.

 

Banner tho, needs some love.

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Em 12/10/2020 às 15:43, o FakeUser disse:

uau, estamos alcançando um novo nível de imortalidade

Eu queria que vocês olhasse mais para o paladino  e muito dificil se solo com paladino e runa de roubo de vida nem na loja vende e esse escudo devia se possível lanca nele mesmo sou lv 20 tou com  um bom set todas as Habilidades especialista do paladino comprada com os espaços que custa moedas milagrosas e mesmo assim ta dificil para mim fora queqhe difícil acha equipe para os dg mapa 2 em diante povo nâo gosta de ajuda low resolveram o problema do mapa 1 mas os outros mapa ainda ta complicando  que sabe boa sorte que for contínua dado sugestão o povo nem liga o povo nâo pensa  na maioria que tem dificuldade ate de fazer um set 13 ou 16 kkkķ

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On 10/16/2020 at 9:12 AM, Higgings said:

which is "unpopolar opinion". Perhaps you might have written it because too many people believe that it's an indeed strong skill

I dont see any people exept you saying other wise about this topic.Most people on this page agree that the shield should be self castable, and it is pretty damn popular.Ive been talking about it in game (not on forum) and a few people agree that the shield should be castable on self and they arent even paladins.

 

On 10/16/2020 at 9:12 AM, Higgings said:

again - only Zeus was brave enough to admit that the buff would just be a "why not?" scenario. 

But answer the question. Why not? You and the other people that dont play paladin are the only ones that think the pala shield is super strong.But if you actually get to play paladin you will quickly realise its not as powerful as it seems.

 

21 hours ago, Raislin said:

Sacred shield is busted af and doesnt need any kind of buff.

Maybe because you arent +10 and its op for you :i_know_what_you_did_there: (By The Way commenting as I go along the long list of comments)

 

20 hours ago, Higgings said:

You are not a simply supporting class, but also an AoE stunner and disabler, which means that even if 1 guy resists your skill, your whole team would back you up and kill him pronto.

Please Elborate on the disabler part,  and are you talking about 3v1? bc you say it as if its that easy to kill an enemy char and he doesnt have his teammates to defend him :jackie_chan_wat:

 

20 hours ago, Higgings said:

My reason is that the skill is already too strong

The shield being melted in under 4 seconds isnt “ too strong”

 

20 hours ago, Higgings said:

I honestly haven't got this part, my apologies... isn't it the same problem that every class faces when it comes to different scenarios or simply when they approach for the first time to expert skills? How is this buff even involved with such scenarios? You want a FTP user not to pay for book of Oblivions? Then you should tell them that Sacred Shield for solo content is not a good option - better going for something else. If such a useful feature was made PTW is not my fault -  I too would want the possibility to change my skills for free. 

He is saying that paladin when alone can be killed by mobs much easier than many other classes and will need to use scrolls to continue going where he wants to go.But if the shield is self-castable then he can survive those mobs and gives him a chance to heal up and obviously wont need scroll.And about the oblivion books he meant that since the shields cant be self castable, its a waste having them on 4/4 so the pala will need to reset his skill to some other build in that case.And when there is a group situation the shield is strong so he will need to make it 4/4 again.:facepalm1:

 

20 hours ago, Hourai said:

so adding self cast isn't gonna change anything but simply delay our deaths should we be left alone

 

22 hours ago, Gladiator said:

Suddenly Paladin can win 2v1? No, It will just delay his death. No change in the outcome. The only difference is that if it ends up 1v1 as part of an arena battle, the Paladin has a CHANCE to win against some classes like tanks maybe at least which is included in the 10% that I referred to in my last post.

“CHANCE” is the key word here, idk if you read glads comment fully

 

Edited by Higgings
We have got the edit button for a reason - use it. It's not necessary to spam.
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@Radgod you personally made question to which I answered already. Since I wrote kinda too much, take your time and read everything back again. I've got litterally nothing more to say to points I've already answered to, my apologies. 

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So far ive seen the people that agree that the shield should be self-castable have provided much more logical points than those that disagree.

:what-crazy-rabbit-emoticon:

Edited by Radgod
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3 minutes ago, Radgod said:

So far ive seen the people that agree that the shield should be self-castable have provided much more logical points than those that disagree.

:what-crazy-rabbit-emoticon:

 

Ye, I've seen. Definitely did. 

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3 hours ago, Radgod said:

 

“CHANCE” is the key word here, idk if you read glads comment fully

You didn't even bother reading my comment fully, you quoted Glads comment under quotation marks in my post and you tell me I didn't read his post. Lmao

 

4 hours ago, Radgod said:

.But if you actually get to play paladin you will quickly realise its not as powerful as it seems.

I main paladin 3 years and this is a joke, everyone who plays/main paladin knows just how powerful it is 

 

21 minutes ago, Radgod said:

So far ive seen the people that agree that the shield should be self-castable have provided much more logical points than those that disagree.

:what-crazy-rabbit-emoticon:

You went around asking people who don't play paladin if their shield should be self castable, you're not one to talk about logical points

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11 minutes ago, Hourai said:

I main paladin 3 years and this is a joke, everyone who plays/main paladin knows just how powerful it is 

I mained pala for about 4 years and i never said that it wasent powerful, when have i ever said its not powerful.

 

12 minutes ago, Hourai said:

You went around asking people who don't play paladin if their shield should be self castable, you're not one to talk about logical points

I didnt go around asking people, me and few other palas were talking about this topic in wc and the non pala players agreed with us too.

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1 minute ago, Radgod said:

I mained pala for about 4 years and i never said that it wasent powerful, when have i ever said its not powerful.

See:

4 hours ago, Radgod said:

But if you actually get to play paladin you will quickly realise its not as powerful as it seems.

 

And

 

3 minutes ago, Radgod said:

I didnt go around asking people, me and few other palas were talking about this topic in wc and the non pala players agreed with us too.

World chat people agreeing with you is not really a valid point either, for obvious reasons

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9 hours ago, Raislin said:

id rather they nerf sacred shield to the ground and buff banner

Also this shows why you dont want the banner self-castable, just because your selfish persona wants banner to be buffed instead of shield doesnt mean it has to be “nerfed to the ground” :grinning:

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2 minutes ago, Hourai said:

World chat people agreeing with you is not really a valid point either, for obvious reasons

With that logic your opinion doesnt matter.People in wc I talked to are actually experienced in game and you say they dont matter? :cereal_guy_2:

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1 minute ago, Radgod said:

With that logic your opinion doesnt matter.People in wc I talked to are actually experienced in game and you say they dont matter? :cereal_guy_2:

 

Are you even aware of how to build up a valid argument or you're just throwing numbers? Because if the best you can come with is this, we are really lacking of the basis here.

 

According to your logic: people disagreeing with you equals people not bringing up valid points, whereas people saying "I agree with you" *end of the post* are bringing up very good arguments. 

 

At this point I'm wondering if you're just here to troll. 

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13 minutes ago, Higgings said:

logic: people disagreeing with you equals people not bringing up valid points, whereas people saying "I agree with you" *end of the post* are bringing up very good arguments. 

You defined your self :facepalm:

 

13 minutes ago, Higgings said:

Are you even aware of how to build up a valid argument or you're just throwing numbers? Because if the best you can come with is this, we are really lacking of the basis here.

Lets say Gladiator gave some good points, but since you dont agree with him you say they arent valid points.

 

9 hours ago, Higgings said:

you wrote an essay

You try to disrespect him by saying that and yet you write a whole book disagreeing :friends:

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14 minutes ago, Radgod said:

You defined your self :facepalm:

 

And you just confirmed what I said. Nothing more to be said. I'll show up once someone has got something actually worth to be replied to. Have a good day.

 

9 minutes ago, Radgod said:

Lets say Gladiator gave some good points, but since you dont agree with him you say they arent valid points.

 

I never said he hasn't brought valid points. I'm saying that you and the others who wrote like you didn't. He puts efforts of what he writes and it is something I admire a lot on a user.

 

9 minutes ago, Radgod said:

You try to disrespect him by saying that and yet you write a whole book disagreeing :friends:

 

How to write an essay

 

The format he used to write his topic resembled an essay... it's a fact and not any disrespecting mean to his person. I feel weird that I have even to explain this. 

 

Edited by Higgings
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1 hour ago, Higgings said:

Ye, I've seen. Definitely did. 

I assume this is sarcasm and if it is then you basically said you didnt see gladiator or anyone else give logical points.Lose lose situation bud :clapping:

Edited by Radgod
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I main fully awarded seeker(with a ton of books and full +10) while i occasionally play around with a award accesories paladin(full +10). 

17 minutes ago, Radgod said:

Also this shows why you dont want the banner self-castable, just because your selfish persona wants banner to be buffed instead of shield doesnt mean it has to be “nerfed to the ground” :grinning:

That also has nothing to do with "selfish persona" more damage instead of defence is the way i like to play this game. Although there's obviously limits to everything. For example i'd like seeker to have a more defensive skill or something that would give them a bit more survivability in 1vX situations since they are basically rogues but with none of the dodge to compensate (squishy af).

Played paladin without sacred shield for the longest time in 1h/shield setup, focusing instead on the sun seal/shield combo to keep healed up, but decided to go for a 2h mace magic setup instead with sacred shield later because my opposition in arena was full +10 chinese barbs and charmers at the time with the occasional awarded rogue thrown in there for good measure so sacred shield was needed to stay alive most of the time and 2h mace gives good utility on majority of the skills anyway.

Honestly don't care what they do with the skill, works either way for me. But for the rest of the game i hope the shield gets nerfed it's ridiculous.

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34 minutes ago, Raislin said:

I main fully awarded seeker(with a ton of books and full +10) while i occasionally play around with a award accesories paladin(full +10). 

Literally doesnt give you any more authority over me.

 

 

34 minutes ago, Raislin said:

more damage instead of defence is the way i like to play this game.

You do realise that even a shield pala does alot of dmg.Paladin as said before is a paper, it isnt really tanky.So basically you want paladin to be a damage class.We dont need more damage, we need more defence to tank better in pve.

 

34 minutes ago, Raislin said:

But for the rest of the game i hope the shield gets nerfed it's ridiculous.

The shield is strong I agree, but its not op or ridiculous like you are saying,if the opponents do good amount of damage they can take the shield off you or your teamate within 3-4 seconds, i dont see what is so “ridicolous” about it.

Edited by Radgod
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11 hours ago, Raislin said:

Played paladin without sacred shield for the longest time in 1h/shield setup, focusing instead on the sun seal/shield combo to keep healed up, but decided to go for a 2h mace magic setup instead with sacred shield later because my opposition in arena was full +10 chinese barbs and charmers at the time with the occasional awarded rogue thrown in there for good measure so sacred shield was needed to stay alive most of the time and 2h mace gives good utility on majority of the skills anyway.

Honestly don't care what they do with the skill, works either way for me. But for the rest of the game i hope the shield gets nerfed it's ridiculous.

I don't blame you, I would also think the shield is insanely overpowered if all that I have ever fought are barbs and charmers. Since they would barely tickle the shield and shields in general basically nullify charmer's biggest stun.

Try Necros/shamans, or even warlocks. People who can complete lock out the paladin and kill his partner while maintaining a safe range.

Or Bds and druids, that can just blast throw the shield in few seconds, whilst still controlling the Paladin from far. An occasional mage thrown in there to instantly remove it just in case you could cast it. Lemme know how that works out for you.

Do I think the shield is overpowered? Yes if you're facing DKs and Barbs in 2v2 :tongue:

Do I think it's strong? Of course it is, but so are many other skills and classes and such a skill is needed for Paladin to survive in the current meta.

 

Anyway, being able to self-cast it won't change any current interactions in the situations where you think it's OP. I don't see how, even if the shield is OP, it is an argument against the proposal. It's not like I'm asking to increase its duration or durability. It's not a buff.

I don't see anyone complain about Paladins using minions to use the shield when they're alone. You just have a problem if we had the ability to use it without minions (?) So it's not a matter of is it op or not? I don't get it.

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And @Higgings, Regarding the ''unpopular opinion''. The reason for that is that I know exactly how strong the shield is, and it will be an unpopular opinion mainly among non-paladins. But I tried to explain that having this option, won't affect the strength of the shield, it will remain the same in most situations since it's obviously better to cast 2 instead of 1.

Most of your points were: But it is already too strong! Well that's not the main topic, I'm not asking to make it stronger, you clearly have a problem with its strength and not whether or not I can cast it on myself.

 

Edited by Gladiator
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3 minutes ago, Gladiator said:

Most of your points were: But it is already too strong! Well that's not the main topic, I'm not asking to make it stronger, you clearly have a problem with its strength and not whether or not I can cast it on myself.

 

The strenght of a skill is not measured through how much damage/def it can deal/give but also parameters like cooldown, rarity of statistics it can work with, range of its usage etc. You said that the shield was once self-castable, yes, but it was a common and undecent shield that could be easily broken. It needed a buff. Now that the buff has been given, you want to be able to cast this skill with the current statistics on yourself. 

 

This skill is strong due to a lot of passive statistics it can work with, mainly HPs, a very easy statistic to build up. This skill is strong due to its durability. This skill is strong because you can cast it ALSO on yourself in case you find another mate to cast it on. It's unique, incredibly strong for these and several other reasons I'm quite surprised you (apparently) haven't even looked into and that I'm frankly tired to even mention. 

 

Everytime I said it was strong I explained why. I tried to put it into scenarios. You just brought warlocks on yours... the class that suffers the most in terms of resisted skills. You brought 2 vs 1 scenarios, where people managed to mute you until they killed your mate. Basically they used the weak point of your skill. You brought counter classes - which is exactly the reason of why they have been put vs a paladin: to counter its skills. Isn't this the whole point of a skilled warrior? To use the enemy's weak points against him? It's called weak point for a reason and for the sake of Balance every skill should have something like this. 

 

What you are suggesting is basically to remove this weak point. I'm trying to figure out why this necessity and not focusing on skills of yours which actually need a buff. You haven't yet convinced me otherwise. 

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1 minute ago, Higgings said:

you want to be able to cast this skill with the current statistics on yourself. 

Not necessarily, I never said that.

In fact, here is it what I said in my original post:

On 5/27/2020 at 6:04 PM, Gladiator said:

I think it would be only fair for Paladin to be able to use shield on himself, even if it's a bit weaker version (If used on himself) or for some sort of penalty

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16 minutes ago, Gladiator said:

Not necessarily, I never said that.

In fact, here is it what I said in my original post:

 

even if

 

Okay then. What kind of penalties or "nerf" would you be ready to accept for the sake of being able to cast it on yourself? 

 

:up-down-crazy-rabbit-emoticon:

 

Would you accept to self cast it with the strenght of how it was the very first time it was released? 

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18 minutes ago, Higgings said:

 

even if

 

Okay then. What kind of penalties or "nerf" would you be ready to accept for the sake of being able to cast it on yourself? 

 

:up-down-crazy-rabbit-emoticon:

 

Would you accept to self cast it with the strenght of how it was the very first time it was released? 

Hell yeah, you're asking if that's better than nothing?

Really anything. Just better than being completely unusable.

 

What I think would make the most sense is to cast 100% of the HP shield on 1 target or 50% of the HP on 2. It would be a bit of a drastic change, might have to adjust durations and cooldowns with that.

Edited by Gladiator
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2 minutes ago, Gladiator said:

What I think would make the most sense is to cast 100% of the HP shield on 1 target or 50% of the HP on 2.

 

You mean in general? As an adjustment?

 

Edited by Higgings
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21 minutes ago, Higgings said:

 

You mean in general? As an adjustment?

 

Yes, that was just a template, don't have to take the exact numbers. An idea would be to cast a much stronger shield on 1 person or 2 weaker shields, and edit the duration and cooldown accoridingly.

Edited by Gladiator
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1 hour ago, Gladiator said:

 

I don't blame you, I would also think the shield is insanely overpowered if all that I have ever fought are barbs and charmers. Since they would barely tickle the shield and shields in general basically nullify charmer's biggest stun.

Try Necros/shamans, or even warlocks. People who can complete lock out the paladin and kill his partner while maintaining a safe range.

Or Bds and druids, that can just blast throw the shield in few seconds, whilst still controlling the Paladin from far. An occasional mage thrown in there to instantly remove it just in case you could cast it. Lemme know how that works out for you.

Do I think the shield is overpowered? Yes if you're facing DKs and Barbs in 2v2 :tongue:

Do I think it's strong? Of course it is, but so are many other skills and classes and such a skill is needed for Paladin to survive in the current meta.

 

Anyway, being able to self-cast it won't change any current interactions in the situations where you think it's OP. I don't see how, even if the shield is OP, it is an argument against the proposal. It's not like I'm asking to increase its duration or durability. It's not a buff.

I don't see anyone complain about Paladins using minions to use the shield when they're alone. You just have a problem if we had the ability to use it without minions (?) So it's not a matter of is it op or not? I don't get it.

 

It was mostly barbs and charmers but i never said it was just those. Also fought a fully awarded shaman and rogue team, shaman and necro necro and charmer, barb shaman etc etc. As i said it all depends on your partner. If you are losing on a paladin you are doing something wrong or your partner sucks. Won best shaman and charmer in the server with paladin/ranger team 8/10 times and we went on for like 2 hours. Also i have no idea how you can say warlocks can stay safe vs paladins when palas have a jump skill that can hop over aoe silences and dark circles and if positioned and timed correctly even score a fetters on them for free (You dont need to actually you know use the skill on top of them to get the desired effect sometimes).

Just gonna throw it out there that paladin + any class besides maybe wardens(since they are kinda low damage unless 2h setup) can win vs any combination of classes in a 2v2.

Ofc if the opposition has octo book then its a automatic loss since that book is almost like cheating lol.

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18 minutes ago, Raislin said:

Ofc if the opposition has octo book then its a automatic loss since that book is almost like cheating lol.

Well they mostly have jump and fetter cleanse pots, that's if fetter even lands due to being able to reach 30-40% resist from castle scrolls.

I could say the same thing about your opponents, they must be doing something wrong, 2 Shamans should very hard to kill for a Paladin even with a BD or a Ranger partner. There is just not enough burst damage to kill them before they can cycle blind and start and running healing back up. Of course we win, but it's a balanced fight after all. Thanks to the shield, it's not a 100% win-rate on eithe sides.

 

We can keep sharing personal anecdotes, but it's not gonna accomplish anything, it's not a good evidence. Maybe they're just so bad, maybe my opponents are too good, or maybe I'm so bad, and you're way too good at this game that you don't represent the majority. 

Edited by Gladiator
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Everyone that is disagree is because they are pvp against paladins with full awarded and max. Not every play can run Swamp naked. You can @Higgingsbecause of years of experience. I'm referring to newbies, as a brand new player. Feel like I'm talking to a brick wall.

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23 minutes ago, Speedom said:

Everyone that is disagree is because they are pvp against paladins with full awarded and max. Not every play can run Swamp naked. You can @Higgingsbecause of years of experience. I'm referring to newbies, as a brand new player. Feel like I'm talking to a brick wall.

if you are like me who prefer the pve part of the game you know it’s not like they say; "ho my god the shield is very strong it absorbs up to 10k hp" but it doesn't mean that the shield will last until it absorbs all this damage, in the pve solo part the self-launched shield would be much better and in the pvp 1v1 question as the gladiator said it would effective but currently in 2v1 I’m not sure because the solar seal no longer works.

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