vavavi

Stealth is a tool that can be used to avoid cc, idk what you're on about. Going in to a fight with stealth or without it are hugely different. Resist isn't the only tool to avoid cc.

This is just a straight lie. You have stealth and reflex.

I didnt say rogue sucks for everything else, i simply said it's main purpose is to be an assassin. The class works great in arena when paired with the right partner. Sure it won't win everything, but that goes for every class. Some matchups are simply going to favor rogue while some won't. Also rogue has all the tools to build resist through gears and buffs to counter cc, same as every class does. Theres no such thing as "being permanently toyed around by cc" in todays meta. There are so many ways to counter that. I'd be curious to know where you get this 50% accuracy when it comes to understanding the class. I have played the class, through multiple different metas. I also have played against the class through the same metas. One way or another I've had interactions with the class throughout the decade I have played this game. That's a decade of experience relating to the class from multiple perspectives. I don't mean to be arrogant, but given all that I believe I'm perfectly capable of having an informed opinion about the class. Your issue is that you don't even argue for or against the class. You rather argue semantics and whether or not other people are as competent as you. You're more focused on trying to prove yourself smarter than anyone else involved than you are on actually having a conversation about the class. It's not people having different opinions that limits discussion about the classes strenghts and weaknesses, it's your tendency to assume any opinion that goes against yours is objectively inferior and false.

Like a 0,5-1% increase to books from certain talents would be nice. Isn't game breaking and would allow people to min max things more. Or honestly any other way to keep knowledge relevant in the late game would be welcome. Theres really not much use for it once you have things maxed out. Being able to exchange excess kl for a token that lets you swap branches free of kl cost if you spent it would be cool too. Could sell them or stack for your own future use.

Sure. Rogue is fine because it's an assassin style class. Assassin style classes, such as seeker/rogue aren't meant to do well as a brawler, thats a whole different role. Rogue is fine because it does what the class is meant to do great. The problem is that majority of content nowadays doesn't promote this style of game play. It's the same reason seekers are trash in majority of brawler favoring situations also. It's no slouch in PvE dmg either, might not be the best possible there is, but it isn't far. The class is fine, you cant have everything on a single class. Rogues pvp damage is more than enough to kill people, their pvp utility from relics/stealth is fine and their survivability is far higher than that of seekers, a class that is also supposed to play as an assassin.

Sure gvgs rogues struggle at, but so does every melee class. As for arena, you should know rogue does just fine. Seen you run over 99% of parties on yours.

So to sum it up. "Your opinion is welcome as long as it isn't different from mine".

Nothings been proven wrong, idk what this is about. If these things were such a problem, why didn't all your competent suggestions pass? Why was the one thing changed a PvE change, and other something that wasn't asked for? Shouldn't the fact that majority of those suggestions didn't come to be put your competence into question? And yes it is this mob victim mentality that is causing it. You again didn't even comment on the things I said. You just somehow decided that your opinion is somehow more relevant than someone elses. Who's more biased here, someone disagreeing but offering reasons to why that is, or someone dismissing the opinions of anyone who doesn't play said class? That's ridiculous logic, but lets follow it. Who are you to even compare rogue to other classes then if you don't play those classes? Your comparison to them is irrelevant because you have no way of having a competent opinion about how strong or weak those classes are. Therefore you have no relevant comment to offer with any comparison, making all your suggestions that you reasoned for by even mentioning any other class irrelevant. Doesn't this sound dumb already?

I've never said nothing needs to change, just that rogue as a class is fine and doesn't need direct buffs. It is a really good class at what it does (being an assassin style class). The main problem is that there aren't many scenarios where such a play style is the best. That doesn't mean that rogue itself should be changed and basically turned into a copy of every other class. At least thats what it sounds like people want in these topics. There are other ways to make assassin style gameplay, and therefore rogues, more viable. Having new content released that promotes such a play style would do alot already. Like for example a capture the flag style arena mode where rogues(and seekers), would shine. Theres also things like removing detect pots from league, making mobs less likely to see stealth to make the skill better utility, having dgs where stealth becomes a near necessity, the same way healers got helped etc. These are all things that would help rogues indirectly and none of them require any direct buffs to the class. The class is really good at being an assassin, that aspect of the class should not get needlessly buffed. Nor should the class be changed in a way that it stops being an assassin style class. I just believe that it would be better to make content and small changes that allow for that play style to shine. These kind of things haven't been discussed and when someone brings them up your "groups" collective victim mentality stops you from even considering them.

Sure you can write out a scenario like that, but idk what I'm supposed to get out of that. I can do that too. I run max resi with full amps and full books (aside from sea books) and sometimes a rogues knife just flies at me from nowhere, i get stunned, into a double dmg auto proc and by the next skill im dead without ever having a chance to fight back. I just think balance should be done from the perspective of peak chars. If a badly amped/geared/booked person struggles with a class that shouldn't mean the class needs a buff. If you buff classes based off of that, then those seemingly small buffs that make the "average" player do a little bit better get abused far harder by those better equipped people. Thats what creates imbalances like how chief was pre nerf.

Sure but that's a vacuum sealed situation. Bds/hunters/rangers/seekers get deleted in 4 seconds too if they get caught badly. But rogues have the tools with stealth and a ranged stun to pick and choose when and how they engage. I'd like to believe a good rogue uses that ability to avoid being caught constantly. At the very least the fight should start with the rogues target being stunned in that situation you mentioned. Which would allow for more time for stuns/damage while reducing the time before the rogue can stealth again. When this is the case reflexes start to be very strong.

No good rogue is getting melted in 4 seconds unless it's against multiple people

Almahad talents might still be a bit too fresh for a daily reward to give repu there, but some option instead of mm repu would be cool.

Okay, what part of what i said was wrong? What's with the "you're wrong but I won't say why".

Rogues have good defensive capabilities though. Stealth, their relic set, ability to build dodge and reflexes which is just big dmg reduction. Idk why people underestimate reflexes effectiveness. It's mages barrier, but only activated when you're vulnerable and out of stealth. Mages barrier can be wasted at any point and its still strong. Rogues can pick and choose when to activate theirs making it even stronger.

Number of people using a class doesn't automatically translate to the class being bad. This can be caused by multiple things; Side population differences, current game state being heavily focused on one aspect of the game that a certain class isn't designed for(like it is now for gvgs), and the preferences of top guilds. There aren't many bds in EU elf because the class is bad in gvgs, same as rogues. Does it mean that bd is a neglected class that obviously needs a buff? This isn't something you can draw conclusions from unless you're doing it through heavy bias.

You missunderstood what i meant completely. I meant hitting burden with a different skill from stealth, and then using throwing knife as a stun when the burden effect is nearly done on the rogue. Basically saving the skill to be a tool used to catch the priest at a bad spot. Also burden ends with one hit, it is only a permanent nuisance in a vacuum sealed 1v1 situation which is irrelevant anyway.

You're still just assuming everyone agrees with it. It kinda seems like your unwillingness to hear other views is the reason for that. Like i said, I haven't played rogue recently, that much is true, but i have played against them. When you try to discuss balance both of those points of view matter. You can't say the only thing that matters is if you're a rogue player or not. If that was true, you comparing rogue to other classes could be dismissed using that exact same logic. The class doesn't suck, it's very strong in what it does. Comparing it to its counterpart seeker it does extremely well. It's true that both of those classes struggle in some aspects of the game, such as mass fights, but every class has weaknesses. You could even argue that when it comes to being an assassin type class, rogues are far better at that than seekers are. Also when it comes to resist, rogues lack of resist skill is heavily compensated for by having access to 2 reaction relics. Those are very effective when used correctly. Rogues even get one on an AoE skill. In fact it's even a skill that doesn't suffer that much from getting resisted, since the ability to stealth after isn't taken away by said resist.

You don't know how many ppl agree with it. I also know multiple people who agree with rogues being strong, both you and me saying that means nothing. Whats with the "you people"? Exact same mentality i was talking about. People disagreeing about a class needing buffs or nerfs doesn't make them an enemy whos trying to ruin the class on purpose. Things like asking for dmg reduction when you just got your dodge skill that practically functions the same as dmg reduction is just ridiculous in my opinion. Doesn't mean im out to get you in some way.

Alot of those things you consider obvious are obvious only to you, or to people who agree with you, but they aren't obvious for everyone. You're almost refusing to even acknowledge that there are other view points. Someone disagreeing with you doesn't automatically mean they are saying something that is objectively wrong or that they meant it as malicious in some way. What matters is their reasoning behind what they are saying. I could say the same thing but the opposite. Playing AGAINST a certain class makes your opinion on the class carry more weight. While everyones opinions are biased in one way or another, it stands to reason that the bias from playing against a class should be a lot less than having money/time invested into said class. You seem to consider your opinions and views as stone cold facts, which you will belligirently defend based on some mistaken notion of people being out to purposefully ruin a side or a class. It's this victim mentality where you think people, in this case me, are out to get you by intentionally attempting to suppress your "correct" views. Then somehow you put this through an impressive mental gymnastics routine and flip it around to use as justification to be the one suppressing different views under the guise of defending the "oppressed" rogue class. You can't have a proper discussion when anything that goes against your opinions gets filtered through that mess. These conversations in forums already probably matter very little. It's far more likely that most balancing decisions are done based on data gathered by the developers with maybe a little bit of vocal player feedback looped into the actual solutions of the problems. Trying to dig through that vocal player feedback will get extremely jarring extremely fast if all the topics about a subject are filled with this precedent of victimhood and disregard for views that differ from yours. Especially while they could instead be focused on respecting those differences in opinions, with the goal of driving healthy discussion. Dropping such things in favor of constructed and logical conversation that's based on openness to different views would benefit your cause as well. All you have to do is look at this topic; it's already bloated and very difficult to get anything meaningful out of. All the while it could have just been people sharing and discussing their views within that previously mentioned constructive and open framework.

Whether or not you want to entertain anything doesn't matter. Everyone wants the class they have invested time and money into to be buffed. If playing a class was a requirement for having an opinion about said class, all anyone would ever say is that every class needs to be buffed. In your opinion these are legitimate problems, but that's it. It's just your opinion. You playing said class doesn't somehow make your opinion any more valid than the opinions of others. Only thing that should matter in a discussion are the points being made in favor or against. If you refuse to "entertain" any opinion thats different from yours then the discussion will never go anywhere. It's the equivalent of a 3 year old covering their ears and going 'lalalala" to ignore something they don't want to hear.

Yea, you would have to run over traps on purpose, kind of like repeatedly using your one ranged stun from stealth on priests burden? Not to mention with buffs people nowadays can reach 70+ resist with ease, there is no "you WILL get caught in x stun" in this meta. 1. You don't even need to change your set from a regular rogues set much in order to easily reach 70% resist 2. There are multiple ways to avoid those controls. Even if you ignore the existance of buffs, there were multiple times in that video where the rogue could have played better. By for example A. Not wasting throwing knife directly from stealth, but instead waiting for a chance to use it when priests burden is nearly done. This would open far more opportunities when compared to wasting it as a first skill B. Using a different build. A skill setup with max gouge for example could fairly easily allow the rogue to wait out a burden before starting to do dmg. 3. Considering it takes 1-2 stuns max to kill the priest, healing to full hp, which won't even happen everytime, isn't relevant. 4. If the way you describe is truly the maximum depth of any rogue players efforts, it's no wonder they struggle. Idk what it is with rogue players, but it's always complaining instead of trying different things to win. You said it yourself, every rogue plays the exact same, it's not a surprise people learn to counter that.

If If he really is one of the best rogue users, then in that vid hes failing on purpose. Also it's showcasing a unbuffed 1v1 scenario which isn't relevant. I mean i could hop on my bd, fight a weaker ranger and on purpose run into his traps, die, make a similiar video and then claim bds need a buff.

Удаление дебаффа, похоже, работает по таймеру, а не по времени восстановления, как у обычного навыка. Несколько раз, когда мы входили в комнату босса, когда до конца оставалось более 19 минут, босс почти мгновенно использовал эту способность. Могу ошибаться, но похоже, что именно так это и работает

Если все 5 полностью оглушаются, оно становится медленным из-за отсутствия урона. На данный момент это просто шуточная стратегия, а не работающая.